What is your "dual" like?

[Gilly]

I think it would be a cool exercise for people to describe what they think of their real personality "dual," not just in the Socionics sense, but more like overall what your ideal partner is like personality wise, what they do for you, etc.

Personally, my ideal partner is easygoing but disciplined, someone who can keep me in line and down to earth, but without taking it too seriously. I need someone who can help me take myself less seriously, bring me down "out of the clouds," so to speak. I want someone who can see when I have an emotional outburst that it's just a phase, that I'll be over it as soon as I discharge, and that it really isn't necessarily representative of my feelings towards them unless it continues for a long period of time. I would hope that she can demonstrate that she can "take it," that it's not a huge deal if I have an outburst, so that I will feel comfortable being open about how I feel with her.

That said, I don't want my partner to just sit there and take abuse like a wall; she should stand up for herself, be as persistent as I am, so that she can really put a mirror up to my face and show me when I'm being ridiculous, without taking offense to what I say, because she should know by my persistent attitudes toward her that, no matter what I might say once or twice, I do care deeply about her, and that doesn't change just because we have a fight or I get all crazy.

My partner should have a passion for life and adventure. I like to get out and do ridiculous things once in a while, just to shake things up: go speeding down the highway, spraypaint some shit on a corporate building, go streaking, run around in the rain, go to wal-mart and do cartwheels in the aisles I would like a "partner in crime" for these sorts of things, someone who likes my goofiness and benefits from my spontaneity; I won't do these things alone, usually, but when there's someone to have fun with, I like to coax them into doing silly things with me. However I do get carried away sometimes (especially with speeding ) so it would be good if she had a sense of when things are going too far; if I have a moderator, I know that I can play the instigator without restraint, and know that, if I start being "too much," she will keep me in check, and know when to put her foot down.

My partner should be intellectually curious. I like to probe people's minds, test their intellectual limits, see if I can really push them to think about things. I would hope that my partner is well-versed in intellectual disciplines that makes her an interesting conversationalist and someone I can run ideas by without them going over her head.

I also want to be with someone who is sexually adventurous. I like to try new things, and I want to try more kinky shit; I am admittedly a little bit of a masochist, so having someone who is comfortable being in control would be good; however I like reciprocity and I want a feeling of total equality in a relationship, and I do like to take control during sex, whether it is to utterly dominate or to provide pleasure even to the level of servitude or worship, so she can't have such a big ego that she has to be in control all the time.

I would hope that my partner is more outgoing than I am, to some degree; I need the occasional push to get out and socialize, and it is almost always good when I just do it. That said, she shouldn't be TOO much more sociable than me; if she is constantly trying to drag me to social events, evenings out with friends, etc, I will (a) get finicky because I like my alone time, and (b) wonder if she really likes spending time alone with me.

It would be REALLY nice if she is proficient with things like doing taxes, financial planning, paperwork in general, etc but I can do these things easily, too, as long as I have a little push.

[Creepy-male]

Sounds like introtims do indeed look for other introtims.

+1 for what Carla said, but I'd say "totally relaxed" over "fairly idealistic"; and I would like them to take the initiative with adventure-seeking (this is a recent development due to my exposure to IXEs).

Ok, so, short answer: someone smart and chill that I can veg out and giggle with.

LATER EDIT

Actually, scrap that.

My dual? Carla. Easy.

[Wynch]

This is the fourth time I've tried to start making this list and changed my mind enough times that I just stopped.. This is ridiculously hard to do :/

[Waddlesworth]

This is someone who does not want to waste their time behind a television screen and talk about television shows like they are important. Someone who does not masturbate and who does not scream during sex. They wipe their ass with their left hand, clean up after themselves, don't overeat and value spiritual commitment as the most important thing in life.

Does not care about what I can "give" to them and understands that everything is impermanent. Someone who does not flirt or makes efforts not to. Someone who knows nothing is perfect so simply lives by their vows and treats me with respect.

Someone who is willing to suffer with me.

[Cheesy]

Someone who's generally more quiet and subdued than me. Open minded yet grounded. Can handle the daily matters so I don't have to. I would like someone who generally has an air of seriousness but when around people he likes, opens up. Someone that is not too much of a social butterfly. Down to earth and kind. Someone who's not the most noticeable guy because I really don't like popular guys. Someone who wants me to expand their world and knowledge. Someone that I can do simple yet enjoyable things with. Oh, not overly judgmental but has his moral honesty. Someone that can deal with me not making much sense at times or with my weird childish moments that I have on a daily basis Someone calm and low key, I love that.

[marooned]

Someone who is willing to suffer with me.

I think I like to watch television about people suffering together and then talk about it as though it's important. There is something I'm in awe of about it, but in my own life, I feel that suffering, though life is suffering, hangs at a lower level, where it can almost be ignored as if it's white noise. So then there is nothing "big" to suffer about. And furthermore, I don't agree with needless suffering or making others suffer. Before even getting to anything else, the question is: is suffering even necessary.

[JuJu]

Someone i can trust, and who can put me in my place (i.e. intelligence, humor.) Someone who is reassuring, and make me feel better when I'm flipping out... Someone open-minded, who wants to help people.

[Waddlesworth]

If you are an Alpha type, I would be shocked out of my boots.

If type were proven to be real I would be shocked out of my socks!

One more vote for Waddlesworth as an ILI?

could be.

If I had to pick a type at this point, I guess. I don't know much about him but sounds like typical NiFi mysticism, asceticism.

I didn't always used to be this way. But it is possible that the course of one's unfolding is predetermined and that this is what 'type' is.

[Waddlesworth]

Before even getting to anything else, the question is: is suffering even necessary.

In order to change, to learn, we must die a little at a time. This hurts. Every bit of pain brings you up a little higher. We are stuck the way we are because we are afraid of suffering.

Many people divorce because they are afraid of suffering in some way( fear of criticisms of others, starvation, homelessness, vulnerability of all sorts.) If I am to be married she must be willing to suffer with me. I can't trust anyone that is not willing to suffer.

[ArchonAlarion]

They would initiate contact by finding me funny, interesting, and warmly start chatting to me. At least, that's how I've traditionally been, but I could probably initiate too its no biggie. She'd want to know about my hobbies, listen to me talk about politics, socionics, etc. She herself would turn out have similar interests like she plays WoW or likes engineering/psychology/w/e. There'd be a realization of similar humor.

I'd be nervous at first, but after letting my guard down, I'd let the infantile side rip and begin initiating instead. I'd be all witty and silly and very geeky. She'd love it of course and join in. I'd begin coming up with things to do, adventures to go on, and she'd be all, "fo rizz"

I'd tell her about LARP, socionics, anarchy, dungeons and dragons or anything else. She'd come with me to events or join a club with me.

I'd do stuff she liked too. I'd meet her friends, listen to her music, get into what she does, etc.

She should be:
Sometimes shy for no reason
likes to go on adventures
serious faces are rare
touchy (as in like, likes to be touched-like to touch)
doesn't mind being emo with me lol
likes sci fi/fantasy stuff
can hold her own intellectually. Isn't a pushover.
likes to start random projects.


okay theres alot of stuff, especially little things, but im done.

[tereg]

I used to have very vague, largely undefined things that I looked for in women. I think that had to do with not really understanding what it was that I wanted. It was something along the lines of "She can be what she wants to be and I will be ok with that."

I think that I still struggle to a degree with understanding what it is that I really want, although learning about the dynamics of duality has served to influence my opinion significantly, but I remain somewhat timid about asserting that I feel comfortable knowing what it is that I want in a dual. But I'll try.

Someone who truly understands the essence of who I am and why I do what I do
Someone who I sense likes me for who I am and not just the things that I do
Someone who I feel comfortable sharing every corner of my life and comfortable being transparent with. If I don't feel comfortable being transparent with them, then I feel like I'm being hindered or held back in emotional bond and therefore would always feel like a significant portion from my end of the relationship is being withheld.
Someone who can help me relax and balance myself in those times when I'm unbalanced or unnecessarily stressed out
Someone who is ok with adjusting with changing circumstances and understands why things might need to change (or perhaps would be willing to discuss various aspects of why the change would not be better... in other words, be willing to step in when I'm making a clear error in efficiency or practicality)
Someone who is respectful of space
Someone who I enjoy the company of and want to be around

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Someone who is more alike me than different.

Someone who is kind and caring and kind of emo. (like they're aware they're emo and don't care they're not actually emo and down, they're actually upbeat...just sensitive) Somebody who is sensitive and good with people. However, they also have to be very grounded in reality. Just not a 'tough' realist but a sweet one.

Somebody who has a good sense of humor about things and likes laughing about themselves.

Somebody who likes to talk and express their internal feelings. Somebody who doesn't really get much of a kick out of the external environment. Somebody romantic. Somebody that wants to understand and be understood.

Somebody who is just there for me. Somebody who can tease me playfully. I really enjoy that.

[marooned]

In order to change, to learn, we must die a little at a time. This hurts. Every bit of pain brings you up a little higher. We are stuck the way we are because we are afraid of suffering.

Many people divorce because they are afraid of suffering in some way( fear of criticisms of others, starvation, homelessness, vulnerability of all sorts.) If I am to be married she must be willing to suffer with me. I can't trust anyone that is not willing to suffer.

Ahhhh, this makes sense to me. And actually I think I agree with you in that sense. I mean in terms of relationships there will inevitably be problems and suffering and times it isn't working, and to just bail out at those times would show not very much devotion to begin with (so then I think, why bother in the first place). I'm still afraid of suffering, but this would be where devotion trumps fear. Although I guess then I'm not focusing on suffering, but on devotion. But devotion is one of the forces strong enough to overcome fear.

[Park]

Someone who's sort of like me, I think. Someone who's fairly idealistic and introspective and who I can stay up late at night and talk about absolutely anything fun with. Someone to curl up on the couch with and watch TV or movies with and read books with and find new "favourite" places to go to with and get up to mischief with. He has to be to able to stimulate my mind but I don't want someone who tries to be "dry" and "logical" all of the time. I need someone who can be empathetic, or at least someone who wants to be empathetic, or something. Perhaps I just want someone who's a bit of a helpless romantic, like me. I don't know. Something like that.

Ne + Si =

This is the fourth time I've tried to start making this list and changed my mind enough times that I just stopped.. This is ridiculously hard to do :/

Yup, same here.

I think I like to watch television about people suffering together and then talk about it as though it's important. There is something I'm in awe of about it, but in my own life, I feel that suffering, though life is suffering, hangs at a lower level, where it can almost be ignored as if it's white noise. So then there is nothing "big" to suffer about. And furthermore, I don't agree with needless suffering or making others suffer. Before even getting to anything else, the question is: is suffering even necessary.

I totally agree with this.

[717495]

My expectations are less that what I will end up with, so I won't bother.

[Waddlesworth]

Ahhhh, this makes sense to me. And actually I think I agree with you in that sense. I mean in terms of relationships there will inevitably be problems and suffering and times it isn't working, and to just bail out at those times would show not very much devotion to begin with (so then I think, why bother in the first place). I'm still afraid of suffering, but this would be where devotion trumps fear. Although I guess then I'm not focusing on suffering, but on devotion. But devotion is one of the forces strong enough to overcome fear.

I agree with you. Suffering is inevitable.

As I am sure you know, many people get married subconsciously planning on leaving the other. They use the spouse to fall back on for security as they search for a new partner(this phenomenon is well hidden but very real). Some people also get married out of spite/revenge, a desire to impress, a desire to fit some social expectation. Many if not most marriages today seem to fit in these molds.

Devotion is something that I think is only possible if two people have the same aim. I can't think of anything that fosters devotion better than spiritual purpose. Everything else just falls apart in one way or another.

[Lotus]

Something I sort of described recently:

Mentally stable. Intelligent. Active. Confident in their beliefs. Dependable. Extroverted. Private. Visionary, yet practical and pragmatic. Grounded. Distinct and discrete. Firm. Humorous. Witty, clever. Loyal. Dedicated. Insightful, perceptive. Self-controlled. Actively interested in how things work. Informative. Willing to answer questions. Internally consistent. Genuinely receptive to ethical concerns or issues. I could go on but probably shouldn't.

But I should probably add that this is only subjectively what my “dual” would be like. I.e., this type of person could very well look insane to everyone else but me. Hah. For some reason I don't really give a shit about being with someone that everyone else thinks is crazy, as long as he can open himself up to me, I couldn't care less.

I can't see many people putting up with me though, hah. I really can be such a bitch sometimes, so I need someone who wouldn't provoke me just for the sake of having some emotional turbulence. God, I can't stand that. They need to realize when I'm being irrational, and they need to not get involved in it, knowing that I'll come to my senses in an hour or so. I really do just need alone time when I'm upset. People can't fix my problems. The only way for me to relax and de-stress is to go be alone, listen to music, paint, or watch a movie or something. And they can't expect me to constantly prioritize them, because I probably will, as I'm easily susceptible to guilt trips from those that I care about. So anyone who uses emotional manipulation on a casual basis will really piss me off; I don't have the energy to put up with that at all. I need someone who doesn't constantly demand things from me—like pressuring me to tell them what's wrong when I'm upset, or for me to tell them everything—because I need time to open up. Just like, calm down and be there for me without being a naggy bitch. Sometimes I get overcompensatory to be independent and to not rely on anyone, so it'd be nice for someone to remind me once in a while that I can trust them and depend on them if I need to. I forget that, a lot.

There's more, but I'm not going to elaborate on the other stuff publicly. lol

[crazedrat]

duality is a bunch of lies. don't believe it. no one will save you. the end

[jessica129]

I can't get as detailed as most of you. All I want is someone who is caring...the genuine bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring. Hard to find these days. Got that and we can work from there.

[ScarlettLux]

I can't get as detailed as most of you. All I want is someone who is caring...the genuine bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring. Hard to find these days. Got that and we can work from there.

Aww this is so sweet. You'll find your IEE-Fi soon!

[baittoman]

Hmn, wait, so is the a "perfect dual" thread or a "perfect partner" thread? Or somewhere in-between?

Okay, it's the perfect partner thread I guess. There're probably some things that I'll say now that I wouldn't want in a few years/months/seconds time, but right now, I'd want a partner who could above all teach me something. Someone who'd give me new experiences, whatever they are. Someone who was also comfortable about themselves and I'd feel comfortable and relaxed around.

If I'm having a crisis, that person wouldn't bother me. If I'm worried, I need to escape into my mind for a moment, and when I'm ready or need help, I'll tell you. Someone who doesn't bother with wealth or status, who's just okay with being themselves.Someone who doesn't mind me playing chess or the Sims all the time. =P.

I'd really like to learn to sing and/or dance, but I'd be way to embarrassed to do it with other people, so it'd be a bonus if he could teach me or would go to classes with me. . He also shouldn't be scary. Hah. And also good looking, and sound good, preferably. Someone who doesn't really care about what other people think, or what the norms are, and is just nice because he is or wants to be. I think that being true to oneself is a deeply admirable trait.

That isn't exhaustive, just the stuff that came to mind first. Hehe. I *think* I'm an by the way, although I'd like to get typed "professionally" sometime soon. =p

[Wynch]

ok, I'm going to just list off stuff as they come to mind at this point. I think that's the only way I can do this.

-is essentially good at heart, but not adverse to a little mischief and playfulness
-competitive spirit, a little on the cocky side, not to be confused with arrogant or close-minded
-relaxed and fun-loving, willing to explore and experiment..in all aspects, haha
-plays an instrument that I can sing along to and enjoys music that is reasonable to sing to
-plays strategy board games and can hold their own/actually win with some regularity against me (this actually gets me hot and bothered, haha) and is not adverse to gloating on either side
-intellectual equal, keeping in mind that there are different kinds of intelligence. I couldn't be with someone who I thought was less intelligent than me in whatever their strengths were.
-better at finding comfort and dealing with both of our feelings than I am (not necessarily more expressive, just more...people smart?)
-has the patience to deal with my fickleness and general internal confusion/uncertainty
-confident enough to hold their own; though I enjoy the game of trying to wrap people around my finger, I don't actually want a lapdog for a partner
-understands my need for independence and equality and knows how to let both partners give and take in a relationship
-makes me comfortable enough to stay open and honest, but doesn't need or want me to outline things in detail. I want to be able to talk and be honest and genuine without feeling vulnerable

[Gilly]

Vero, you should meet my roommate You might find him a tad chauvinistic, but it would be fun to see you two in the same room

[Wynch]

Vero, you should meet my roommate You might find him a tad chauvinistic, but it would be fun to see you two in the same room

I enjoy chauvanists. They make me lol and want play with them like you would an ant with a magnifying glass.

[Gilly]

LOL

He's not actually a male chauvinist, he thinks women should be treated as equals, but I think some of his attitudes might throw you off in the sense that he comes off like a typical male chauvinist via his persona, and is not afraid to say things that might seem chauvinistic even if he doesn't really mean them to be.

[Wynch]

LOL

He's not actually a male chauvinist, he thinks women should be treated as equals, but I think some of his attitudes might throw you off in the sense that he comes off like a typical male chauvinist via his persona, and is not afraid to say things that might seem chauvinistic even if he doesn't really mean them to be.

Oh posh, that's entirely different.

[ragnar]

All I want is someone who is caring...the genuine bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring.

I know guys like that. I used to be one myself, too.

Women usually don't even notice such guys among all the exciting neanderthals all around. My bet is you're surrounded by dozens of nice guys and they're like air to you. And available almost instantly - after recovering from the surprise that you'd be for them.

Some of these guys can't handle a "direct" expression of romantic interest, though - they may have to be approached gently and patiently and with a bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring on your part for many months before direct romantic intentions can be made obvious.

Please feel free to get all upset for me opining thus.

[ragnar]

You are projecting.

I've always run after the quiet, genuine ones.

[Waddlesworth]

Women usually don't even notice such guys among all the exciting neanderthals all around. My bet is you're surrounded by dozens of nice guys and they're like air to you. And available almost instantly - after recovering from the surprise that you'd be for them.

Some of these guys can't handle a "direct" expression of romantic interest, though - they may have to be approached gently and patiently and with a bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring on your part for many months before direct romantic intentions can be made obvious.

I think that this problem is caused essentially by aggression and the fear of negative evaluation. This occurs for both men and women. This has gotten worse and worse in recent years.

Here is one THEORY, which is far from certain or complete and only applies to one subset of the population:

Women are bombarded constantly by aggressive male signals. Men are also bombarded by these signals. When an aggressive, angry man sees another man with an attractive woman he gets jealous. Some are so bold as to make approaches on the woman(usually while the other man is present), often poking at the man's weak areas in order to display his superiority over the man with the woman.

When this happens everyone feels miserable, the situation is awkward and it can ruin the relationship. Most men don't want to deal with this, and most women don't want to deal with this. This might explain ragnar's wish that women would be the one to do all the work. I think this is fear of rejection. It is indeed flattering when the woman does all the work.

Many women take the 'path of least resistance' and choose men who are of the aggressive type, to ward off other aggressors. Their mistake is that often these men are unsuited for them and they get stuck in an abusive relationship or they drift from aggressive man to aggressive man. Many men become disgruntled by this competition and simply put off relationships until it is too late.

Problem is that sometimes women that choose the "nice guys" get bombarded by their friends, who are jealous. Their friends often take the 'path of least resistance' and therefore are often quite miserable. Misery loves company so the woman identifies with the aggressive male and pokes, albeit indirectly, at the weaknesses of the "nice guy"; either in his presence or not.

But then again, if the people are truly happy together none of this would be a problem in the first place. Aggressors are often drawn in telepathically. There is a very dark side to humanity.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[implied]

I can't get as detailed as most of you. All I want is someone who is caring...the genuine bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring. Hard to find these days. Got that and we can work from there.

that is seriously pretty much the hardest thing to come by. i'm with you on this.

[ragnar]

that is seriously pretty much the hardest thing to come by. i'm with you on this.

Beg to differ, as mentioned.

[implied]

Beg to differ. As mentioned in a previous post.

the ironic thing is that most of the guys who profess to be so nice, so loudly, can be gigantic jackasses. i can hear what a nice guy someone is all day long but if i don't see it, what the hell does it matter?

[ragnar]

the ironic thing is that most of the guys who profess to be so nice, so loudly, can be gigantic jackasses.

I'm with you like totally on that one.

[mu4]

Dramatic, loving, hedonistic, sensual, selfish, elusive, entertaining, direct, eye-catching, mostly harmless, has towel but naked underneath.

[Waddlesworth]

that is seriously pretty much the hardest thing to come by. i'm with you on this.

How about in yourself? See, I think you need to find it in YOURSELF before you can find it in other people.

There are plenty of nice people out there. The question is: Are YOU a nice person?

[jessica129]

I know guys like that. I used to be one myself, too.

Women usually don't even notice such guys among all the exciting neanderthals all around. My bet is you're surrounded by dozens of nice guys and they're like air to you. And available almost instantly - after recovering from the surprise that you'd be for them.

Some of these guys can't handle a "direct" expression of romantic interest, though - they may have to be approached gently and patiently and with a bottom-of-the-heart sort of caring on your part for many months before direct romantic intentions can be made obvious.

Please feel free to get all upset for me opining thus.

I'm surrounded by dozens of neanderthals on a daily basis who have not had sex in months so hmm...yeah...it's slightly hard to meet someone who actually cares at all what you have to say or who you are other than being seen as one massive vagina. I always take time to notice the ones who seem genuine and who do seem to care. It's surely not everyday you run into those sorts. I'm feeling bitter today. Eh...fjakdjklhgf

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Not to play devil's advocate, but that's pretty much how men's sexuality works. No matter how nice a guy a man is, sexually speaking we all pretty much act like perverted apes. 'A man would walk through puke, vomit and shit if there was a good piece of ass on the other side.' haha

As for solutions on this. I got nothing. Other than you really just have to train men. If they do something that annoys you, tell them directly and firmly and whack them on the nose with a newspaper.

Emotionally though- the genders are the same imo. Everybody feels. Everybody wants love. tv and media capitalizes on the feelings of women but men are just like that as well. As for asshole men, there are just as many psycho bitches.

I'm surrounded by dozens of neanderthals on a daily basis who have not had sex in months so hmm...yeah...it's slightly hard to meet someone who actually cares at all what you have to say or who you are other than being seen as one massive vagina.

Do you care what *they* have to say though? I mean I'll be honest. I rarely give a shit about what anybody says or who they are, and other people don't really give a shit about the 'real me' either. Because that's just not how people work, unfortunately. Come on Jessica. Let's say I was straight and interested in dating you. Would you care who I was? Would you care about all my personal interests and hobbies and how I defined myself? Or would you care that we found each other mutually attractive and if I could support you and just be there for you? You'd care how responsible I was towards you.

[Waddlesworth]

Not to play devil's advocate, but that's pretty much how men's sexuality works. No matter how nice a guy a man is, sexually speaking we all pretty much act like perverted apes. 'A man would walk through puke, vomit and shit if there was a good piece of ass on the other side.' haha

Bullshit.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Bullshit.

No. That's just how testosterone works. I guess you can mentally trick yourself to not act like how a natural man is supposed to act, but men's sexuality pretty much acts that way. Getting hard easily and being quick to shoot the semen is just a natural male impulse. It has nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with physiology. Being a good lover is a technique that you learn depending on how well you emotionally care about somebody.

Psychology is the thing that builds peace between the genders and shows us our human unity and shared interests more than differences. And of course, you can be personally bothered by your natural male sexuality and how it operates on a base level. Look at the priesthood. Because humans duh, have the potential and possibility to operate higher than a base level due to our brains.

And if a guy really cares, he'll prove it and show it, despite his natural male sexuality. But then again, it's the girl's job to prove her love too. Reminds me of the movie Stardust when the star told Tristan 'How is she proving her love to you?' when he was trying to impress that one girl.