Star Wars Characters

[717495]

The unirascible rigolet heliotypically disoccluded the allopelagic electrophoridae while uncurtailably destooling the fenagler.

[717495]

One would expect there to already be a thread about this, yet I searched rigolets and found nothing.

[electric sheep]

You appear to be trapped in a downward spiral of incoherent babble. Let me help you

[ArchonAlarion]

You've gone loony, my good man!

[717495]

Help me by helping me to learn Star Wars characters.

[WVBRY]

heres my take :

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader; ENFj
Empereor Palpatine; ENFj
Luke SKywalker; INTp
Leia Skywalker; ENFp
Yoda; INTj
Mace Windu; ENFj
Padmé; INFp
Obi Won Kanobi; ENTp
C3PO; ESFj
Lando; INFj
Viceroy; ESFp
Jengo Fett; ESFp
Han Solo; Unkown

[Linalee]

C3PO: EII
R2D2: ??? or SEE

aren't they alpha instead ?? They are so hilarious together. C3 looks more Fe to me. R2 is intellectual, adventurous, kind of rebellious, and does not care for emotions

I would say

C3PO SEI : extremely low intuition, puts feelings in the forefront and worries for comfort and security, doesn't know how to go with the flow
R2D2 LII : very good timing and intuition of situations, logical type
Anakin : beta type, SLE maybe. Tends to be physically involved and use his hands before his brain
Padme EIE : rationnal beta NF who tries to teach Anakin to think more before doing things
Luke IEI : introvert irrational NF, has a hard time keeping emotions in check
Leia EII : rationnal NF, kind of control freak with low Fe
Han SLI : well... He's a ST, he's irrational, and I can't picture him being a beta.
Yoda : Yoda
the others : I don't know, maybe chewbacca is ESE ??


But you know... it was a long time ago, in a far, far galaxy...

[717495]

Mmm I can relate to R2D2.

I dislike the fact that Wall-E reminds me of an E.T./artoo hybrid.

[Logos]

Luke: IEE or IEI
Obi Wan: ILI
Anakin: EIE or SLE
Han Solo: SLI
Leia: EII or ???
Darth Sidious: IEI
Yoda: ILI, EII, or some other type
Padame: IEI
C3PO: EII
R2D2: ??? or SEE
Windu: ESI, LSI, or something

Those have been my thoughts. The only ones I have a strong feeling for are Luke as IEE, Obi Wan as ILI, Han Solo as SLI, Darth Sidious as IEI, Anakin as being Beta extrovert, Padame as IEI, and C3PO being most likely EII.

Obi Wan: EII > LII. I also have a strong feeling for this typing.

[1981slater]

Anakyn Skywalker / Darth Vader ILE Ti
Luke Skywalker IEI Ni
Han Solo SLE Se
Princess Leia SEE Se
Chewbacca ESFj Si
R2D2 ILE Ti
C3PO ILI Ni
Lando Calrissian LSI Se
Master Yoda ILE Ti
Obi Wan Kenobi IEE Fi

[electric sheep]

I can see

Luke: IEE
Yoda: LII
Obi wan: EII

Yoda didn't seem to care for Luke while he was training him, while Obi wan was trying to defend him.

[MrMoney]

C3PO ILI Ni

Are you kidding me?

[electric sheep]

Are you kidding me?

Yea C3PO is definitely ESE imo. Always complaining about Han Solo's dangerous behavior (something an ILI would probably not do). He sorta follows R2 around and acts as his voice while R2 does all the quiet technical work of saving people. They have the ESE LII duality going on for sure.

as an aside I think Leia is LSE. She gave off that tough-princess vibe in episodes 4 and 5. The conflicts she has with Han sorta resemble Ej vs Ip, i.e. she cares a lot, he could give a crap.

[MrMoney]

Yea C3PO is definitely ESE imo. Always complaining about Han Solo's dangerous behavior (something an ILI would probably not do). He sorta follows R2 around and acts as his voice while R2 does all the quiet technical work of saving people. They have the ESE LII duality going on for sure.

Indeed.
And what about "Anakin/Vader"? Slater, did you just assign your type to the SW characters that you think are cool and strong, and assign the ILI-type to the character from SW that you find the most annoying? I think you did, because even a child can see that Anakin (EP I, II, III) does not have the same personality type as Darth Vader (IV, V, VI)

[Expat]

Luke: IEE-ish
Leia: not very consistent - maybe SEE
Han: in Empire Strikes Back, a clear SEE; less clear otherwise
Darth Vader and Palpatine: in Episodes V and VI, a ESI-LIE pair as seen by Alphas
Obi-Wan: EII sounds good
Anakin Skywalker: SLE
Yoda: LII maybe
Darth Sidious/Palpatine: in the first trilogy, maybe ILI

[Gilly]

Luke: Delta NF
Han Solo - SEE
Leia - LSE
Darth Vader/Anakin - Gamma SF
Obi Wan - LII or EII
Yoda - Alpha NT
Lando - ESE
Palpatine - LIE
C3PO - EII
R2D2 - Alpha Irrational-ish

[jimbo]

Luke: Pretty sure he ain't an IEE. Seems IEI to me.

Han Solo: SLI. Pretty sure of this one.

Obi-Wan (in the original 3): EII
C3PO: I reckon ENTJ. I think he uses extroverted thinking a lot. Seems like his main function. But then again maybe ENTP. Now I'm thinking maybe ESFP. Or ESFJ. Man I dunno at all for this one. Maybe, being an android and all, he ca use all of the functions efficiently.

R2D2: ENTP or INTJ

Yoda: To me he seems to be a mix of INFJ and INTJ

[jimbo]

Actually I think YODA = INTJ.

[717495]

Luke - Ne-IEE
Han Solo - Fi-EII
Leia - Te-LSE
Anakin - Te-SLI
Yoda - Ni-ILI
Palpatine - Fi-SEE
Obi-Wan - Ni-EIE
3CP0 - Se-LSI
R2D2 - Ti-LII

[electric sheep]

C3PO: I reckon ENTJ. I think he uses extroverted thinking a lot. Seems like his main function.

Actually, his main functions are etiquette and protocol.

[1981slater]

Indeed.
And what about "Anakin/Vader"? Slater, did you just assign your type to the SW characters that you think are cool and strong, and assign the ILI-type to the character from SW that you find the most annoying? I think you did, because even a child can see that Anakin (EP I, II, III) does not have the same personality type as Darth Vader (IV, V, VI)

No, no one annoys me. I have friends IRL/OL among the 16 types.You said what you said, I said what I said

Typing fictional character is actually "wrong" because they don't have a "personality", they don't exist.

Vader is an old, unhealthy ILE with an unfulfilled Fe hidden agenda. I don't see any Fi / Te in him. In SW4 he says:"your lack of faith is disgusting", something fellow ILEs would say.

R2D2 is a...robot. Anyway, it has a poor temper and gets angry easily: a traits most ILEs share. It is a trouble shooter. BTW I've read polikujm's typings and I think he is right about R2D2 as LSI Se.

Yoda acts silly but is actually someone rational, an trait.

[Gilly]

Luke - Ne-IEE
Han Solo - Fi-EII
Leia - Te-LSE
Anakin - Te-SLI
Yoda - Ni-ILI
Palpatine - Fi-SEE
Obi-Wan - Ni-EIE
3CP0 - Se-LSI
R2D2 - Ti-LII

Some of these are good, but...Han Solo EII? WTF? Anakin SLI????? Yoda a Gamma????? OBI WAN A BETA?!?!?!?!? o_O

[electric sheep]

I think the mistake you make in typing the characters is that you look at the functions they exhibit rather than the character as a whole. Yes C3PO gives a lot of facts and probabilities, but he's a robot. His character is an overbearing robot that is constantly worried about the people around him and especially R2D2 that is always running off doing the quiet technical work. I'm not looking at their functions, I'm looking at the characters and what role they play in the movie.

[Wynch]

The ones I see as most obvious are Han Solo as SEE (surprised more people aren't saying this, actually), C3PO as some kind of Alpha SF SEI>ESE imo(try putting C3PO and Wall-E side by side...) and Obi Wan as EII.

Darth Vader and Palpatine: in Episodes V and VI, a ESI-LIE pair as seen by Alphas

I think this is a really interesting observation, and I think I can actually agree with you here. They really do seem like archetypes of the most negative aspects of ESI-LIE from an alpha perspective. I actually would have found it difficult to type them because they're just so heavily constructed as negative characters, but I think ESI and LIE could be a really good typing for them.

Actually, I think I can agree with all of your list, Expat. Perhaps with the exception of Leia, who I can more easily see as LSE than SEE. That said, I also find Leia a little inconsistent.

[Gilly]

IMO Anakin is SEE and Vader is ESI.

[electric sheep]

IMO Anakin is SEE and Vader is ESI.

I suppose a lot of parallels can be drawn between Anakin and Julius Caesar.

edit: as well as the fall of the Old Republic and the fall of Rome.

[Expat]

Actually, I think I can agree with all of your list, Expat. Perhaps with the exception of Leia, who I can more easily see as LSE than SEE. That said, I also find Leia a little inconsistent.

Thanks I don't have any particular reason to object to LSE, actually.

IMO Anakin is SEE and Vader is ESI.

Although I don't really see Anakin is a good character for typing, one problem I have with SEE is that all of his problems in Episode III stemmed from poor Fi: not knowing who were his friends and whom to trust. His speech about "bringing order to his new empire" and projecting onto the Jedis the revolutionary goals of "taking over" also reinforces Beta.

Finally, his whining about the Jedi council not granting the title he "deserved" is more from a SLE perspective. SEEs are more concerned about being accepted as leaders from those around them in a inner, Fi way; not due to formal Ti titles or hierarchies.

[Gilly]

Although I don't really see Anakin is a good character for typing, one problem I have with SEE is that all of his problems in Episode III stemmed from poor Fi: not knowing who were his friends and whom to trust. His speech about "bringing order to his new empire" and projecting onto the Jedis the revolutionary goals of "taking over" also reinforces Beta.

Finally, his whining about the Jedi council not granting the title he "deserved" is more from a SLE perspective. SEEs are more concerned about being accepted as leaders from those around them in a inner, Fi way; not due to formal Ti titles or hierarchies.

The reason I think he is definitely Gamma is that he abandons all of his ideals, and is even willing to "sink" to the Dark Side, in defense of Padme, his love; this is his first step towards "the dark side." The initial motivation for his desertion was not necessarily acting against it because of an ideological problem with the system, as a Beta might do, but simply for the fact that it was not conducive to his Fi goals, which I see as very Gamma. After he has been corrupted by the Emperor, I think we can give leeway to the fact that he doesn't know "who his friends are," because he has obviously been totally brainwashed. The important part, I think, is that his initial break with "the system" is for very typically Fi+Se reasons: doing whatever it takes to defend his lover.

Also, as far as the "title he deserved" part goes, I think this attitude is actually demonstrative of weak Ti. He doesn't understand what it really means to be a Jedi Master, the "definition of a Jedi," if you will; he sees that he is the strongest Jedi, and thinks that nothing else should matter, when in reality being a Jedi Master is obviously as much about discipline, patience, and clear-minded judgment (all of which are both lacking in Anakin's character and easily attributed to Ti in the sense that they are portrayed in the movies and in other Jedi masters, including Mace Windu, whom I think is Beta ST) as it is fighting skill.

[electric sheep]

I'm really tempted to say Han Solo and Chewbacca are an SLE/LSI pair. The smarmy smooth talker and the silent brawn. Yea Harrison Ford is SLI and it really shows in the movie, but I don't think that's what Han's role in the film is.

[Expat]

The reason I think he is definitely Gamma is that he abandons all of his ideals, and is even willing to "sink" to the Dark Side, in defense of Padme, his love; this is his first step towards "the dark side." The initial motivation for his desertion was not necessarily acting against it because of an ideological problem with the system, as a Beta might do, but simply for the fact that it was not conducive to his Fi goals, which I see as very Gamma. After he has been corrupted by the Emperor, I think we can give leeway to the fact that he doesn't know "who his friends are," because he has obviously been totally brainwashed. The important part, I think, is that his initial break with "the system" is for very typically Fi+Se reasons: doing whatever it takes to defend his lover.

Ok, that's a valid way of looking at it.

Also, as far as the "title he deserved" part goes, I think this attitude is actually demonstrative of weak Ti. He doesn't understand what it really means to be a Jedi Master, the "definition of a Jedi," if you will; he sees that he is the strongest Jedi, and thinks that nothing else should matter, when in reality being a Jedi Master is obviously as much about discipline, patience, and clear-minded judgment (all of which are both lacking in Anakin's character and easily attributed to Ti in the sense that they are portrayed in the movies and in other Jedi masters, including Mace Windu, whom I think is Beta ST) as it is fighting skill.

Ok, that's also a good argument.

I would only argue that he was only appointed to the council specifically to be the liaison with Palpatine, that is, not through his personal merits, or due to being acknowledged by the other Jedis as deserving. I think a SEE, not understanding maybe, as you say, the precise definition of a Jedi, but understanding how he fits among the Jedis in a Fi network - would be more aware of the politics involved: understanding that he is, in fact, a political appointee, he would use his "foot in the door" to "win over" the Jedis later. What he did was to assume that his formal position - a council member - made the political context irrelevant, as if the Jedis were the military, so to speak (not that politics is irrelevant in the military, but I think you know what I mean).

I think LSI for Mace Windu is a good bet, by the way.

[Gilly]

I think a SEE, not understanding maybe, as you say, the precise definition of a Jedi, but understanding how he fits among the Jedis in a Fi network - would be more aware of the politics involved: understanding that he is, in fact, a political appointee, he would use his "foot in the door" to "win over" the Jedis later. What he did was to assume that his formal position - a council member - made the political context irrelevant, as if the Jedis were the military, so to speak (not that politics is irrelevant in the military, but I think you know what I mean).

Hmmm...I see where you are coming from, but I think an SLE might just as easily be aware of how he doesn't meet the Ti "qualifications" of a Jedi as an SEE would of how he fits in the Fi "social network" of the Jedis; what is relevant to determining his type, IMO, is that he clearly values Se above either Ti or Fi, and his motivations are primarily Fi>Ti.

I think LSI for Mace Windu is a good bet, by the way.

I agree, I definitely think LSI is the best type for him. I actually had "LSI" in place of "Beta ST," but I decided that emphasizing the fact that the Ti-relevant aspects of "being a Jedi" are relevant to both Alpha and Beta perspectives on Ti, as opposed to just Ti in general, would make my point about Anakin a bit clearer.

[Gilly]

None of that makes any sense at all. Revise your understanding of Socionics, please.

[Gilly]

Sigh, idiots...

[electric sheep]

First thing first, why isn't Han Solo an EII to you? He portrays a crap load of Fi and Ne, more than he does his super Id. Yoda as an LII makes no sense. Where's the Ti? Obi Wan is either an EIE or ESE, but EIE fits a lot better. I can't see how Fe isn't his dominant Definitely not Fi valuing, like Yoda or Anakin, you can see the contrast. He kind of bases his whole premise on Fe, and Se HA is seriously the only fit, and I don't see how he could be Te leading.

All of this is very abstract and I don't think anyone knows what you mean. Saying Han Solo is an EII because he "portrays a crap load of Fi and Ne" is circular reasoning.

[717495]

So you're telling me you are going off the model and not just recycling various stereotypes that say all "Gammas" could seem to fit into context because they all think they're Gammas in the first place? If you're doing something miraculous here besides using the socionics model, and I'm simply overlooking that, just let me know. I will completely understand what you're on to.

All of this is very abstract and I don't think anyone knows what you mean. Saying Han Solo is an EII because he "portrays a crap load of Fi and Ne" is circular reasoning.

I'm not trying to reason. I'm saying for anyone who wants to use the socionics model to type fantasy characters, they should consider this typing as I've considered every type and nailed it down to this one. As far as I have seen, everyone has a different understanding. Who can varify what anyone means when everyone has a different understanding? It's not logic that has to be explained here.

[electric sheep]

ok well this is my opinion, then.
Fictional characters are based on stereotypes. They aren't real people, they are made to represent "good" or "bad" people according to the writer's "vision."

Long story short, if a character is to be believable it has to be consistent. If a character is consistent enough, it should fit a socionic type to some degree. I don't think using the elements to describe a fictional character is useful. You have to consider the character in the broader context of the movie and the writer's overall attitude. An alpha writer is more likely to portray gammas negatively, and vice versa. It's all stereotypes.

[717495]

An alpha writer is more likely to portray gammas negatively, and vice versa. It's all stereotypes.

In the end you are left with a series of false assumptions, just like this one. I'm not at all trying to conclude a typing of a character, because I would be assuming that my understanding of socionics and socionics itself is faultless or consistent.

[electric sheep]

In the end you are left with a series of false assumptions, just like this one. I'm not at all trying to conclude a typing of a character, because I would be assuming that my understanding of socionics and socionics itself is faultless or consistent.

Cartesian doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[717495]

Cartesian doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are straying from the point: Your reasoning on why the model should not be used on a type does not contain the self-evidence of inconsistency in the model.

[electric sheep]

You are straying from the point: Your reasoning on why the model should not be used on a type does not contain the self-evidence of inconsistency in the model.

I'm not saying there is inconsistency in the model, I'm saying there is inconsistency in the characters that don't fit the model, so the writer's intentions and attitude should be taken into account.