That's right, I felt that saying that was important enough that I came out of retirement to do so.
niffweed is LII
That's right, I felt that saying that was important enough that I came out of retirement to do so.
Where is his?
It's not so much about Ne, it's more about Ti, IJ temperament, and weak Se.
yep.
asd
It's more silliness, that's what this is.
The only thing that doesn't fit is how so many people insist that he's Te/Fi valuing.
(But hey, they said I was crazy when I said that Bionicgoat wasn't EII, too. That's the most common response whenever one challenges the general consensus.)
Yea, I wouldn't want him in my quadra either.
The saddest ESFj
...
please leave me out of this.Originally Posted by Joy
/edit btw welcome back (assuming this is really Joy)
he is Te/Fi valuing.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
The way he communicates is completely devoid of the discrete packaging that LIIs use.
He's blatantly Te. Talk to him some time, he speaks in massive tangential info dumps, much like I notice SLIs doing.
Hi Joy!
I don't know, I assume that he wrote the INTp type domain on the wikisocion, and if that's true, then he's almost gotta be whatever type I am.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
you, my dear, are gamma. I read your posts, your signature, saw your picture, and finally derived your attitude and i think it's very appropriate. half of niffweed's posts are calls for attention using random shit from wikipedia that is completely out of place. 'it's so absurd it's funny,' but most of the time, 'it's so absurd it's .. well. it's something.' anyway this is highly indicative of alpha. bizarre, sometimes fun, and very exploratory. niffweed is probably, and definitely the sort of person who doesn't like other people judging him on a personal level. in general i find gamma people don't mind being judged on a personal level.His general gravitation towards gamma and delta types and his way of analyzing things on a basis of taking the concrete, external quality of things, people, and situations, makes me think ILI>Ti-leading. Even though I live with an LII (who I originally typed as ILI) and have seen how my LII cousin acts and how some LSIs act, it doesn't feel quite the same. Like, they'll ridicule or look down on me because I do something a certain way (like how I might compose music) or think or believe a certain thing which violates their conception of how it should be approached or based upon their understanding of the world...I dunno...one example is both LIIs familial to me, if they found out that you believed in Global Warming or were an 'environmentalist,' they would probably look down on you immediately or think you are messed up. I could be wrong, but I always felt Niffweed is more the type to first consider someone's personal motivations and personal reasons before writing the person off...or something. I know that's just them and does not characterize LII behavior...but from my offline experiences...I don't know. Some things just stick out to you. I don't know why. Maybe they are just weird.
It's just my opinion since it's usually hard for me to say unless I know someone's everyday way of going about things....but even then.
In any case, Niffweed is Niffweed.He's one of a kind, regardless of type.
asd
Niffweed is a perfect example of ILI... He does not respond to Fe at all, (in my experience...) As I talk with him more, I grow to like him more and more... He's very sharp and sensible.
So he's too silly to be a gamma and you're booting him out? Typical...
The saddest ESFj
...
Gammas are still Minus Alphas.
Do you people even know any Gammas? God. They're dorks, just like we Alphas.
Likewise for Delta/Beta. I mean, how many times has Ritella been retyped as IEI? Srsly.
I'd say it's more a problem with this forum that Gamma gets lumped in with Delta, "only angrier".
you're too sensitive for all of this. i'm not booting him. i'm not a gamma, i don't hold keys to the door made of money. but! i am making my argument. he's not silly, just random. but whatever, he could be intp. on a personal note: i don't like niffweed.
asd
No idea.I don't know, I assume that he wrote the INTp type domain on the wikisocion, and if that's true, then he's almost gotta be whatever type I am.
Does it speak more to strengths and weaknesses or values?
Sure. There are other examples. Take Sycophant, for example.
LOL/edit btw welcome back (assuming this is really Joy)
Thank you, but I'm not "really" back. Just stopped by to announce that I've settled on a type for niffweed, and I'm not generally one to "settle on" types for people. It's all gotta fit before I'm comfortable doing that. And in this case, it does.
Indeed.
As I talk with him more, I grow to respect him more.
He used to sort of bother me. Now that we've had a real conversation, however, I feel differently about him.
You don't "hold keys to the door made of money" but you must have some kind of ego to think you can "boot" someone you don't like from a quadra for being too silly (or random) which is basically what you are doing--that is your argument.
Even though I think his "jokes" are tasteless and dry, and I feel the urge to slap him whenever I read them... well yea I don't think he's alpha.
The saddest ESFj
...
You guys have to stop worrying so much about quadra. Every type is very different, even within the same quadra.
I disagree with Joy's typing of Niffweed.
One of the most prominent things about Niff is how interlinked his impressions of someone are linked with his emotions about them. If he feels a certain way towards you, then that influences his impressions of you, and those impressions further support his feelings, and so continues the self-feeding loop. This is classic Ni+Fi.
Once he's gained these impressions/emotions towards a person, he will then deliberately ignore any information that doesn't support this, and when presented with information that contradicts his impressions, he'll either twist it in Ni fashion so that it no longer means what was meant, or he'll dismiss it as "irrelevant". Unfortunately, this is often the part that is used to support his supposed Ti-ness. But it's not his "Ti" that's doing this, it's his Ni seeing a pattern and whatever doesn't fit that pattern gets dismissed.
Niffweed seems to detest Ne. Perhaps detest is the wrong term...he doesn't respond well to Ne...at all!! And often derides someone's Ne as useless and stupid and meaningless. It's bad enough that when we do talk with each other, I have to go out of my way to suppress my Ne in an IM conversation with him (by deleting something before sending, as well as carrying on multiple tasks behind the scenes so that it doesn't pop up in the IM conversation as much). In order to partially get along with him, I have to suppress a major part of myself. (This differs from my convers with Alphas in that it's not Ne that is suppressed, but difficulties between the Ti/Fe vs the Te/Fi.)
The only potentially common ground we have for communications are shortened comments about nothing. I think, however, that if we actually had something in common to discuss, then it would give us something to build off of. But as of yet, we haven't found anything. And the few 'deep' conversations we attempted was filled with him completely twisting things I said so that it better suited his previous Ni'd impressions of me.
I also think that if we were actually communicating eye to eye, in person, (assuming we could find a topic to talk about), we'd have an easier time. I think that it would be a relatively easy thing to convince him to go along with some activity, even though he'd label it as useless or uninteresting or such. I can easily see the potential for Ep-Ip interactions between he and I...in person.
I run into similar problems with him that I come across with some of the Ni-INFp males I've talked with. I find it aggravating to deal with, and so prefer to just avoid it when I can.
I see Niffweed as having potential. He's got a few needed talents that could serve socionics well. Of course it would mean trying to get him to get his head out of his ***. Alas, that would actually change him from being who and what he is. So as much as I find it annoying as hell, it's part of what makes him him. It's just tough seeing that potential possibly going to waste. But, hopefully it'll get used elsewhere in something more meaningful to him.
So yeah, basically, I see the Ni-Fi self-feeding loop going on in Niffweed...and it being a major part of Niffweed's understandings of and interactions with others. I'm also well experienced in his dislike of Ne (to put it mildly), enough that I don't feel "safe" in being myself during our IM conversation attempts. (Which is completely different from the kinds of misunderstandings that occur when I IM with INTjs or ENTps.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Is that something you see as typical of LIIs? I was thinking back over all the posts by the 'legit' (not really contested) LIIs like Mysticsonic, Logos, or Thehotelambush and even the new self typed LIIs on the forum and I couldn't really say I've seen any of them do that. Not the wikipedia stuff obviously, but calls for attention that are out of place.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
I really did intend to write a ILI appreciation thread today, their Fi-ness is one of a kind. I know I have said things about Niffweed on this forum, but in reality I really do like people like him and a lot of ILI in this world, come on now if it wasn't for works he has done and other ILI, Things don't function in this world as it is today.I really do appreciate the response and yeah, I finally figured out my type a few months ago. Niffweed, though, can apply method to his madness. Like his satire videos (socion-economics, intro to the enneagram, the zipcode video, and even the poetic interlude) have a way of combining ideas on a level that is very familiar to me, though they are more complex in nature than what is usual for me and the majority of ILIs who I hang out with (though I've encountered ILIs who are on the other level which is more characteristic of Niffweed...in fact, I had a classmate who had a very gamma following, albeit not the kind I usually mesh with, who made me immediately think 'if I've ever met someone who I'm sure if Niffweed's identical, this guy is it. There was another guy, but this one I was mixed on between ILI or LII though I think he probably was the former...he just had a very analytical air about him but I could otherwise really relate).
I, too, originally didn't get all there was to his humorous things, but the more I went back to watch them...it clicked. It is all VERY tongue-in-cheek parodying with some obscure but otherwise brilliant analogies (such as comparing E4s to the Federal Reserve...I almost died...shit, it still makes me laugh.). But it's basically saying "here's this concept. Now let me show you how this relates to this concept. See, it does make sense if you use your imagination.) With his humor poetry and the zipcode one, it's just making fun/poking fun at those "did you know' stuff by throwing a totally worthless fact in to make the point. The poetry one is just making fun of flowery poetry, repetition, etc in a way that is pretty normal satire that many ILIs engage in sometimes.
As for personal motivations...I personally saw his lecture videos to be his way of more or less revealing them or expressing a sincere desire to be understood and appreciated on those levels. I could sense the underlying emotions sometimes expressed which is something I've never seen LIIs do though I have done/do it myself, thinking people will get the message without me having to say more on the subject.
I don't think I could say to most Ti-leading types I know that I really appreciate what they have done for me without them thinking I'm being a fruit-tart and looking at me like I'm batshit nuts. Niffweed's quite the opposite. I always feel I can express my appreciation for the things he does for the community (it's not all about what you post on the forum...he works hard on the wikis, fights to keep things fair and objective in what he considers them to be, shows total disregard for more political based approaches when he feels they martyr truth on the subject). But in those ways, he's certainly invested and accomplished a lot.
And he's actually been the most supportive member in the community for me personally by indirectly encouraging me to do more and be more than just another user posting stuff with lack-luster confidence. I normally would not say this except for that it is somewhat fitting for the thread, but I feel I can trust him not only as a forum member but as another person on a personal level. I could tell him a lot of things I normally wouldn't tell people and I completely trust his confidence and his ability to withold judgment on those matters, lend a supportive ear (and genuinely caring despite it not being his problem), and probably understand. I personally am more convinced of his humaneness than I am of a lot of people I've dealt with only because I've trusted him more than most anyone to open up to. I don't think I could normally do that with the LIIs I've really engaged with without feeling like they would think I'm messed up or laugh at me behind my back (again, I'm not trying to bash LIIs, I'm just speaking from experience.).
Sure, I don't talk a lot with him but the times I have, I have felt I could be my honest self...maybe not being as lighthearted as I am many times, but more of who I 'really am' so to speak, or at least feel I think more so on that level.
I'm not saying that what I'm saying means anything, but it's what I've gathered over all. He keeps so much to himself, not that I blame him. I used to be scared to death of people seeing the sort of person I was inside. I used to cringe at the thought of people knowing my deepest passions. I'm no longer that person but that's because a lot of things have changed, but I haven't changed types, I don't think, and I certainly have the same soul.
I'm sort of rambling on my ideas, not trying to reveal anything personal, but I thought it might help make or break my reasoning.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
people like aixelsyd I have so much respect for, they might be isolationist, misunderstood in the real world for what is really worth but we should not look at just a simply Hi, simply politeness that doesn't need much work for most people, screw those friendliness becuase those are most often fake.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
I wrote ^^^^^ before you wrote
Lol. Thanks. Us ILIs appreciate the thought (wait, I can't speak about 'us' collectively because ILIs don't do that...j/k.).
He comes off as a more serious-minded ILI, but some ILIs I've run across are some of the funniest people I've ever met. And many of them are pretty damn sweet...only when they want to be and don't feel like they have cooties...which it can feel at times.
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
You're just taking for granted that his motivation for those posts are "calls for attention".
Ever thought that he might have a totally different motivation for that? (not that I personally approve -- at the very least, they are excessive when done over and over again).
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Yes. A subtler (some people would probably prefer to say "passive-aggressive") way of saying "you're talking shit".
I personally enjoy Niffweed's funny youtube videos.
Especially the poetry one: "the white will come... the white will come... Boom the world exploded."
Ah its great. I like how he substitutes and interchanges all these various poetic bits thus turning the poem in on itself and making the whole thing a farce.
He's basically eviscerating the Ni by showing that abstractions are not subjective and they are just little bits that you can re-order and there is zero meaning in any of it.
Nice Ne, Niff!
Also I enjoy his interest in knowledge and information. We Ne-ers need to know lots of stuff (from historical to contemporary) including random facts and pop-culture. This helps us package these and extract them into a data base of "parts" which we can then mix and match into all these different forms.
Nice Ne, Niff!
I met Niff in New York. He's pretty tightly wound and he snaps at people occasionally, but I like him. Very interesting guy, very quirky. Its fun when he gets excited because a he lights up and he starts talking faster, etc. We had an interesting conversation starting with trait-based typology methods and ending with nurture vs. nature. We almost ran ahead of the group. I guess we both walk fast, as did Steve and Vero (hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm). Communication was quick and easy between us. In fact I sort of felt like I was talking to myself............................................ ...
When Niff makes points he gets pretty methodical (in fact his whole demeanor and orientation can be called methodical). Seemed to like to divide speech into very clear and understandable parts in a way I'd feel hard pressed to disagree and if I did disagree our difference would be very clear to spot and correct.
Nice Ti IJ, Niff!
Kind of a frail figure. Don't think he'd like people pushing him to do things. Maybe if they convinced him through reasonableness and understanding of the factors at play, but he doesn't seem at all like someone who'd like visceral physical impact. Kinda seems like the opposite to moi. From what I know of ESFp's... Niff would run away from them.
=( poor Se polr Niffweed.
Welp Niff's an interesting guy and I hope he figures out his Alpha-ness one day.
(btw, Maliafee take a look at Niff and then take a look at yer bf. You may shit bricks.)
The end is nigh
oh yes that's right.
btw its 8:48 right now, I predict in five minutes it will be 8:53.
in Australia... no that would require facts and knowledge and because of my Te polr (i got it right this time!) I cannot answer that.
Also Im feeling happy right now so now you know. Perhaps some emoticons would help?
EMOTICONS, TERRORIZE! (Se)
...
?
:frown:
Thats Fe.
Well I'm gonna go day dream now cya later carla!!!!!!@!@@!!one!!!!eleven!
The end is nigh
User Carla, In my personal observations (of course I concede to you that mere anecdote cannot replace thorough empirical investigation) I do not exhibit the traits associated with Ni dominants (in both the original jungian material and various Russian works) nor do I fit the relationships that come with such a typing. I do however remain open to such suggestions as I personally find such emotional attachment to certain self-types as infantile to say the least.
Barney waffles and slugs.
The end is nigh
Kick socionics to the curb, and do the impossible! That's the Team Carla way!
Is that necessary, even desirable?
Yes, I like this story, since you clearly describe how conflict tension feels like. It's a more trustworthy indicator than all the 'he values Ti extrapolating his hidden role agenda superego' abstract shit that I've read.My simple reaction to Niffweed's new typing as LII is that we are not duals and therefore he is not LII.
Niffweed has been extremely nice to me and painstaking in helping me sort out socionics stuff. However, for some reason, just talking to him makes me feel uncomfortable. I NEVER (I repeat never) have felt this way with LIIs. I'm almost afraid when I talk to him, like I have absolutely no idea how to be when I talk to him. I really have no negative feelings/thoughts about him whatsoever and think he is a very nice, helpful person, regardless of some people's apparent opinions of him on here. I think he's great. HOWEVER, I feel a huge psychological distance with him, as I did when I spoke to him even before I knew my type for sure, or his. Therefore, I believe we are both NOT duals and additionally am fairly sure we are conflictors.
The above makes me think ILI would be a perfect typing for him.
Last edited by Jarno; 06-19-2009 at 02:06 PM.
I'd say that ~100% of typing consensus (especially in a forum environment) = sign of predominance of puny minds.
I don't see how endless arguing over the same or similar issues between same or similar people denotes a mind which is not puny. The whole endless process seems kinda dumb to me, and the intelligent person would just leave us all to it!
Niffweed you're cool. Whatever you're smoking let me have some.
Niffweed is not smoking anything, he's just smokin'.
Somebody stop him!
1.) Niffweed's behavior is not typical of LII's... it's not typical of ANY type.
2.) Niffweed's intertype relations should not be relied upon in determining his type. (And I'm usually someone very likely to use intertype relations to help determine people's types.)
3.) Ni is not static. It's not structural. At all. Niffweed does show concern for Fi, but his primary concern is for static logic, not static ethics. He's as fussy about Ti as any Ti dominant here. Maybe even fussier.
4.) He is not IP. IJ, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense. There's nothing "go with the flow" about him. What he describes as his real life laid back behavior sounds like nothing more than weak Se and introversion.
5.) I don't expect anyone to take my word for this, but in talking to him, the way he discusses Se (particularly related to money) is unlike any Gamma I've ever spoken to. His perspective is, on the other hand, quite similar to Alphas I've talked to, particularly LII's.
6.) Unconscious Fe makes a hell of a lot more sense for him than unconscious Fi and Se.
Watch out, she'll retype you ILI now!
Joy, would you be able to elaborate a little more on point 5? If you're alluding to what I think you're alluding to, then for my part I think you are probably right and he is indeed not ILI.
Sorry, but I can't really do so without referencing private conversations.
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