Warrior-librarian's type

[The Exception]

I just started becoming active on this forum so it may be too soon to tell, but what type (subtype too) do you think I best fit into?

[ragnar]

I just started becoming active on this forum so it may be too soon to tell, but what type (subtype too) do you think I best fit into?

I vote for LII. But I have no idea about "subtype" really - you appear more "nice" and less rigid and dry than I'd imagine a Ti subtype would, so I went for Ne.

[clone]

And where are the rest 8 types in your poll?

[The Exception]

And where are the rest 8 types in your poll?

I just included the NT types because I'm pretty sure I'm some sort of NT. I didn't want to clutter the poll with too many options. If you or anyone suspects I'm some type other than an NT, then choose the "Other" option in the poll and let me know what type you think I am and why.

[clone]

I just included the NT types because I'm pretty sure I'm some sort of NT. I didn't want to clutter the poll with too many options. If you or anyone suspects I'm some type other than an NT, then choose the "Other" option in the poll and let me know what type you think I am and why.

Oh I see... I'm a newbie here so can you give me a hint where I can find some more information about youself?

[The Exception]

Oh I see... I'm a newbie here so can you give me a hint where I can find some more information about youself?

Read some of my past posts. I hope to get a more detailed bio of myself up later today.

[Creepy-bg]

alot of that reminds me of myself (minus the neat freak and not being a drug addict part). I'm SEI btw.

[Not A Communist Shill]

You sound very much like a world inside a world person - i.e. in regards to your work at a library and your interests. ENTj doesn't seem likely to me and INTj is of course possible. As is INTp. I think several people write like you, and not just NT types! I couldn't easily type you as an INTj when for example Isha perhaps could decribe herself in similar terms (I don't even know what her self-typing is anymore!). But I suspect you are probably an INTj or an INTp or something like that (because you have poor Si).

[Creepy-bg]

(because you have poor Si).

why? despite a self perception of herself as poor in Si (which it actually sounded like she might have doubts about) she seems to be comfortable enough with talking about it and adjusting her internal ummm *thing* for herself to me.

are you comfortable in your own "skin" and body WL?

[Not A Communist Shill]

why? despite a self perception of herself as poor in Si, she seems to be comfortable enough with talking about it and adjusting her internal ummm *thing* for herself to me.

are you comfortable in your own "skin" and body WL?

I suppose you may have some point. And she thinks she's a type 5...aren't ISTps supposed to correlate best with that ?

[Creepy-bg]

I suppose you may have some point. And she thinks she's a type 5...aren't ISTps supposed to correlate best with that ?

idk. I will say that until a year or so ago when I settled on 9, I self-identified as a 4 or 5.

[717495]

I value physical comfort and being healthy but I get irritated by people who keep asking me if I'm comfortable and insist on helping me in this area. Wouldn't an LII typically want and seek assistance in this?

As you have probably read on function descriptions, the hidden agenda is usually quite personal and rather persistent but limited in scope. One does not usually like when this element comes about from others, even within a short amount of time. One prefers to express it thoroughly in seclusion, and if one socializes it, the address is sure to cease quickly, for even feedback of the subject could deplete one's exigency. The 5th "seeking" function on the other hand is persistently accepted from others, and in the LIIs specific case, experientially speaking, Fe in others is highly favored and accepted as a directed effort to lighten one's own spirits in order to better perceive the alpha group's, or more proficiently, the dual's mentality. Given the standard of concealment in the hidden agenda, duality usually works in a way where both's hidden agenda and creative functions are contently understood and form an affective producing cycle, where the creative function naturally and subtly opens opportunity for growth for the coinciding dual's hidden agenda.

[The Exception]

are you comfortable in your own "skin" and body WL?

I suppose so, but I think I need more clarification here.

[The Exception]

idk. I will say that until a year or so ago when I settled on 9, I self-identified as a 4 or 5.

1 and 9 are also high scoring types for me on enneagram tests.

[clone]

Warrior-librarian, what do you like to do and what you don't? What do you think people expect from you?

[717495]

Warrior, you should try kind of weighing the reinin dichotomies for yourself, like I commented on in Gulanzon's thread. It should be less of what and how much gets bolded, and more of what most applies to me.

[Cyrano]

I just started becoming active on this forum so it may be too soon to tell, but what type (subtype too) do you think I best fit into?

I sense some ISTP in you (if you are lucky).

You seem reality-based, with a good dose of " I don't care who you are, it's OK with me."

[The Exception]

I sense some ISTP in you (if you are lucky).

You seem reality-based, with a good dose of " I don't care who you are, it's OK with me."

I haven't considered ISTp (SLI) as a possible type for me because when I compare the N v.s. S descriptions I identify with the N much more. I don't see myself as being particuarly reality-based but I may thinking about this more on the lines of . The parts of the sensing descriptions I least relate to, tend to be the parts emphasizing the element. For instance, I'll be oblivious to my physical surroundings, hestitant to confront, things like that. On the other hand, I'm quite sensitive and aware of physical comfort, which is more in the realm of .

I can identify with the statement "I don't care you who are, it's OK with me." I'm generally very accepting of people and their differences. It's only when they engage in very rude or mean behavior or start acting like jerks that I have a problem with.

[The Exception]

Here's some more j/p and E/I stuff and how I relate/not relate to them.

Rational/Irrational

Perception

Rational

attention focused on correct actions and emotions (logic and ethics), which produce certain states of mind and body (intuition and sensing)
act according to their expectation of a situation; form an expectation or plan, then act
during communication attention is focused on words and speech
immediate reactions to words, actions, and emotions
are drawn to stable, reliable systems and situations

Irrational

attention focused on correct states of mind and body (intuition and sensing), which produce certain actions and emotions (logic and ethics)
act according to their current state of mind (impulsiveness)
during communication attention is focused on mental images
react not to words, actions, and emotions but to changes in their inner state created by others' words, actions, and emotions
are drawn to systems and situations with uncertain outcomes

Physiology

Rational

angular, discrete movements
internal tension (readiness)
straight lines and angles in face and body
linear biorhythms, actions, emotions, and moods
more stable psychic states
flourish in structured environments

Irrational

smooth, unbroken body movements and gestures
internal relaxedness
gentle lines in face and body
cyclical biorhythm, actions, emotions, and moods
greater range of psychic states
flourish in unstructured environments

Emotions

Rational

sharper, brighter emotions as immediate response to others' emotions, actions, and words
less moody, but moods last longer

Irrational

'softer' emotions that are adapted to situation
tend to be moodier with more impulsive emotions, but moods change more quickly

Strengths

Rational

act decisively and keep correct course in stable circumstances
keeping things under order
completing one task before starting another

Irrational


act decisively in unstable circumstances

improvisation; changing plans midstream
doing several tasks at once

Weaknesses

Rational

easily disoriented when put in situations with quickly changing rules
often have difficulty relaxing after tasks are over

Irrational

become passive and lose interest in unchanging environment
often have difficulty getting revved up sufficiently for task at hand until there is a crisis

================================================== ======

Extraversion/Introversion

Perception

Extraverts

focused on demands and objective nature of outside world rather than on one's subjective ties with outside world
perceive world as objects that can be taken apart, studied, known, and compared to each other; extrapolate ties between objects from objects' characteristics
qualities of objects are taken for granted, while interrelationships between objects are seen as being malleable; change interaction of objects to better fit qualities of objects
feel responsible for events and situations that form around them and others

Introverts

focused on one's ties with and subjective perception of outside world rather than outside world itself
perceive world as ties or interrelationships between objects; extrapolate qualities of objects from their interrelationships with other objects
interrelationships are taken for granted, while qualities of object are seen as being malleable; adapt qualities of objects to better fit their interrelationships
feel responsible for quality of their own and others' psychological 'field' (nature of interaction between subject and outside world)

Physiology

Extraverts

focused on expending energy; need to expend energy and attention to reach state of complete equilibrium
generally have higher optimal level of arousal
on average more commanding, assertive voice
tend to gesticulate from the shoulder down

Introverts

focused on conserving energy; need to be given energy and attention to reach state of complete equilibrium
slightly lower optimal level of arousal
on average slightly less commanding voice
tend to gesticulate from the elbow down

Emotions

Extraverts

liven up in unfamiliar settings or when they have someone to give their energy and attention to
like to involve others and don't appreciate others trying to involve them

Introverts

liven up in familiar settings or when someone is giving them energy and attention
like to be involved by others and don't appreciate others who expect them to involve them

Intellectual qualities

Extraverts

wider and more superficial interests; interested in things that don't apply to them
need greater stream of external stimuli to avoid boredom
attention and thought tend to be focused on present and near future
need to speak their thoughts out loud to know what they think

Introverts

narrower but deeper interests; clearer sense of what applies to them and what doesn't
get more absorbed in situations than extraverts
attention and thought tend to be focused on present and recent past
know what they think without having to express their thoughts out loud

Strengths

Extraverts

starting from scratch
comparing people's traits and skills objectively
respecting people's individual traits and values without trying to change them
enjoy taking on new responsibilities
increasing the scale of tasks
creating and directing situations
forming new ties between people

Introverts

creating finished products
usually better listeners and supporters
not interfering in others' relationships
enjoy limiting their responsibilities
scaling back tasks
developing new qualities and values in people
adjusting to situations and existing ties between people

Typical talents

Extraverts


making contacts
expanding organizations' activities
promoting others


Introverts

working with regular partners and organizations' internal affairs
perfecting organization's internal structure

Weaknesses

Extraverts

mismanaging their inner world; trying to make sense of and find themselves
overdoing things; wasting energy and spreading themselves too thin
can become slaves to outside world and lose sense of self from constantly serving external causescan become drifty and keep changing their external situation without changing their attitudes and inner world

Introverts

handling complex situations involving strangers
underdoing things in the outside world; avoidance of showing 'too much' initiative
can disappear into an imaginary world that has little to do with reality
get stuck more easily in undesirable external situations and may not realize that they can change situation or simply get out rather than endlessly adapting

Typical doubts

Extraverts

often unsure of what ties actually exist between them and others
often afraid of losing control of their inner world (feelings, reactions to external stimuli)

Introverts

often unsure of how they (their traits, skills, etc.) compare to other people
often afraid of being unnoticed and unneeded in outside world

[The Exception]

And now for the S/N and T/F


Intuition/Sensing

Perception

Intuiters

concentration focused more on generalizations of reality (i.e. abstract mental representations of reality) than on immediate sensory data
well-differentiated perception of abstract parameters of situations and processes (i.e. timing, potential, purpose, unseen factors, etc.)
duller perception of sensory data and physical sensations

Sensers

concentration focused more on immediate sensory data (information registered through five senses and other sensations) than on generalizations of data
well-differentiated perception of sensory data (five senses, appearance, color, physical state and sensations, concrete motives, etc.)
duller perception of abstract parameters of situations and processes

Physiology

Intuiters

movements less aware; concentration focused in mind
gaze usually not focused on any object; looks through object without seeing
more often have 'thin' voice

Sensers

more deliberate movements and touch; concentration distributed throughout body
gaze usually steady and focused and moves from object to object
more often have 'melodic' voice

Emotions

Intuiters

emotions seem more distant and are often tied to things happening in their mental representations of reality
typically do more punning and plays on words

Sensers

emotions usually have to do with concrete things or imagining concrete things
hearty laughter

Intellectual qualities

Intuiters

inductive thinking: from whole to parts (seeing the forest); first understand the overall picture or system, then see concrete reality
need to see whole picture to make decisions
conceptual thinking
strategists

Sensers

deductive thinking: from parts to whole (seeing the trees); always aware of details and less aware of overall system (I'm trying to say trees -> forests here)
can make decisions quickly in each specific situation with limited information
practical thinking
tacticians
keeping track of material objects and space around them

Strengths

Intuiters

cultivating unseen potential in people and situations
strategic foresight; see prospects and dangers inherent in situations and processes
creating sense of meaning and strategic consistency

Sensers

realizing potential; turning potential into material reality (i.e. things)
better at deriving sensory pleasure out of their activities
understand their own and others' physical needs and physiological sensations
assessing their physical attractiveness and taking advantage of it

Typical talents

Intuiters

guessing what the hidden problem is
handling large amounts of written data
keeping track of and cataloguing information

Sensers


working with hands, cooking, handicrafts
tasks requiring extended concentration on objects (monitoring machinery or people, for example)
practical medicine


Weaknesses

Intuiters

slow orientation in situations where things need to be done quickly
often don't know their own tastes and desires
doing housework and chores
impracticality
keep developing potential without materializing plans
without direct help and encouragement almost always lead aesthetically and physically bland life
can become slaves to information and future prospects and neglect physical reality and health

Sensers

lack of sense of timing; tend to make hasty decisions lack of foresight; doesn't see prospects or dangers looming around cornerlack of progress and development; keep materializing desires without developing strategic potentialcan become hedonists – slaves to sensory pleasures
often lack sense of meaning and strategic consistency in life

Typical doubts

Intuiters

often unsure of their physical sensations and state of health
often unsure that their partner is really attracted to them

Sensers


doubts about what will happen tomorrow


================================================== =======


Logic/Ethics

Perception

Logical

focus primarily on demands of material, nonhuman world, or world of “things” in one's environment
[B][b]perceive things mainly in terms of correct vs. incorrect, logical vs. illogical (i.e. how objectively true words and deeds are)
in communication focus on and study what is done and said, content of speech

Ethical
focus primarily on demands of subjective human world, or world of people and relationships
perceive things mainly in terms of right vs. wrong, ethical vs. unethical (i.e. how words and deeds will affect people and their relationships)
in communication focus on and study people's feelings and emotional state based on nonverbal signals and how things are said

Physiology

Logical

less expressive face and body language

Ethical

more expressive face and body language

Emotions

Logical

less outward emotional range
have more stable and long-term feelings for others
nearly emotionless when communicating with other logical types but able to mirror emotions of ethical types

Ethical

more emotional range and range of facial expression
more confident of and able to consciously control their feelings and emotions
adapt their emotional expression to those they interact with

Intellectual qualities

Logical

task-oriented
focused on not misleading a person and giving them correct information
convincing others using facts and arguments

Ethical

people-oriented
focused on enhancing relationships; modifying content and form of speech to match or contradict what others expect to hear
use emotions and feelings to persuade

Strengths

Logical

dealing with objective (nonhuman) world
countering others' flawed logic, actions, and procedures and explaining correct logic and procedures
making independent decisions in logical sphere
evaluating others' honesty and deeds

Ethical

working with subjective (human) world
persuasion
adding an emotional, subjective dimension to social interaction
making independent decisions in human sphere
evaluating others' good will and positive or negative attitude
pleasing others and arousing emotions

Typical talents

Logical

working with inanimate objects and resources
technology, equipment, working with mechanisms
creating and understanding procedures and instructions

Ethical

creating a good impression on the right people; public relations
helping others release emotional tension in individual interaction and social settings
being “the life of the party”

Norms

Logical

try to strictly follow others' ethical norms and rules of thumb for demonstrating emotions and feelings

Ethical

try to use formal logic in discussions and read up on scientific and/or technical literature to increase their self-confidence

Weaknesses

Logical

ethics
often feel helpless when forced to deal with others' feelings, emotional reactions, and subjective factors
more subject to emotional manipulation and not recognizing others' true feelings and attitudes in time

Ethical

evaluating how much work has been done and how much remains to do
opinions more easily influenced by others' logic and arguments
more subject to manipulation through dishonest, incorrect, or inconsistent information and deeds

Typical doubts

Logical

often are unsure of their right to have feelings for others and display emotions
often unsure that their partner really has feelings for them

Ethical

often unsure of their ability to work and get things done or whether they have done enough work

[implied]

I sense some ISTP in you (if you are lucky).

You seem reality-based, with a good dose of " I don't care who you are, it's OK with me."

i don't.

[jason_m]

I'm not sure about subtypes, but, after reading your self-description, I think LII is a pretty good bet.

Jason

[The Exception]

Bump.

I looked over the dichotomy descriptions on Rick's site. Crossing out what doesn't apply at all to me and bolding the stuff that fits me very well.

It looks like I'm clearly more introverted than extraverted. Rational/irrational is a closer call but still more rational overall. Kinda rules out ILE based on that.

However:

I relate a lot to the PoLR description about as much as .
ILE seems to be a closer match based on Reinin dichotomies. Not that it means much.
Relationship wise, I've had difficulties with ESI's. Makes me wonder if they are my conflictor.

[Beautiful sky]

I am not going to vote on your type. That is not a good way to type people...majority does not rule when it comes to something so personal.

Try to take the elements and explore how they work and start to see how they work in real life context and what you like and don't like about their working. Then you can find your type and be comfortable with it.

[Suz]

I sense some ISTP in you (if you are lucky).

You seem reality-based, with a good dose of " I don't care who you are, it's OK with me."

No ISTp there!

I'm going based on the videos W-L posted in the other thread--Fe is not POLR in her. Also, clearly awkward in her body. Not a sensing type!! Especially not SLI. SLI's carry their bodies like every bone, every muscle, every cell on it is under control. That's one of the ways I'm using to spot you guys! The other is the baseline SLI frown n' furrow and the stone face (a sign of Fe-POLR) with the soft loving eyes (Fi-valuing). W-L doesn't have any of the Fe-POLR qualities, by a long shot. Instead she has a shy half-smile and makes somewhat natural facial expressions albeit hesitantly so.

I think i'm also going to invoke Jarno's technique as well and say, by gestalt she comes across very similarly to the tons of LII's I went to college with and nothing like the SLI I got to know.

p.s. I voted Ti-LII but that's just because i'm not sure I believe in subtypes.

[The Exception]

No ISTp there!
W-L doesn't have any of the Fe-POLR qualities, by a long shot. Instead she has a shy half-smile and makes somewhat natural facial expressions albeit hesitantly
p.s. I voted Ti-LII but that's just because i'm not sure I believe in subtypes.

So why then do I relate to some of the PoLR qualities? Here's the PoLR description as stated on wikisocion. as a vulnerable (4th) function (ILI and SLI)

The individual tries hard to never let himself "come apart at the seams" emotionally or even let out strong feelings publicly, because displays of passion do not come naturally and make him feel self-consciousness and vulnerable to painful criticism. This makes the individual generally seem emotionally neutral and politely indifferent to excitement and agitation around him. The individual deeply dislikes attempts by others to get him to "cheer up" or "join the fun", especially in the context of group activities with loud emotional expression.

Most of the above fits. I'm very much about emotional control and getting overly emotional definitely makes me self-conscious. I appear rather unemotional to others much of the time. I dislike it when I'm in a bad mood and someone gets me to cheer up. I can't be made to feel something I don't feel. I appreciate the other person's sympathy and good intentions but with bad feelings, it just takes time to let them pass. I'm also uncomfortable with too much loud emotional expression, that just overwhelms me. I do like fun and lighthearted atmospheres though as long as they're not too emotionally intense.


What's confusing is the bolded part of the suggestive description from Wikisocion seems to overlap with the vulnerable description
as a suggestive (5th) function (LII and LSI)

The individual often becomes engrossed in serious work, which leads him to neglect his complementary need for fun and emotional release. He also feels vulnerable expressing himself spontaneously in public, which allows bad emotions and stress to build up, leading to depression or sudden hostility. He enjoys being around people who make him feel comfortable expressing himself, and who can make every day new and exciting.
Although he may present a hard exterior in the company of strangers, he is likely to not be serious at all with people who know him better. His behavior changes radically - a calm and serious structured person will suddenly become jovial and warm.

[Brilliand]

What's confusing is the bolded part of the suggestive description from Wikisocion seems to overlap with the vulnerable description

There are some things to be said about as a very weak function, be it valued or no.