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Thread: ENFp needs help with downtrodden ISTp

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    Fourwaltz's Avatar
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    Lightbulb ENFp needs help with downtrodden ISTp

    Whattup gang! Been reading through all the threads, but most of the discussions seem to revolve around healthy individuals and I've been wondering if anyone could help me with my dilemma involving an SLI who isn't in the best of positions...

    My SLI and I got to know each other through my ex-best friend, an unhealthy EIE, who has since gone off the deep-end: she is extremely and unquestioningly manipulative, paranoid, vindictive, and overall a poisonous personality. Although it took me a while (two years! (I'm young)) to finally come to the conclusion that she is indeed a good person at heart but rather wicked otherwise, the SLI can't let go! Though forbidden by the EIE to see me, he's initiated contact and slipped out to see me on various occasions where he's admitted to me multiple times that he is "over her/over it"; he has broken up with her a number of times, but I think her hold over him keeps him transfixed and in the "relationship".

    What's up with that?? I've been the good friend, being there when he needs me, giving him his space, et cetera, but his mood, motivation, sociability, and emotional balance has been incredibly affected by this EIE girl and I simply can't watch him from the sidelines as he further ruins his life, you know? I can see how this might be an extreme case of "waiting for the right time" to do his thing, but what if he needs a push? He has, playfully, on occasion asked me to take him away, but that goes against my character (and his, too, right??)--what else am I supposed to do?

    I would appreciate any type of input regarding the situation... so complex! Thanks in advance (; Cheers!!!

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Interesting you bring this up, I am somewhat exiting this type of situation because of my overall frustration with the issue. An SiTe and I had been flirting and basically spending a lot of time together, and it seemed pretty apparent that we were into each other. I brought up the possibility of dating, and he confessed to some bad timing as he just got "involved" with whom I'll type for now a NiFe, but he didn't see it lasting for long. So feeling let down but still seeing a possibility of something happening, I stuck around to build a friendship, got to know his TeSi best friend, and found out more about the situation. Apparently both want out of the relationship, or say they do, but in the end don't. He knows she's a strain on him and can't really explain why he's really together with her. Meanwhile, his best friend is feeling pushed away and I'm forgotten about more than usual after they started dating.

    Really, you have to choose to be patient or move on. SiTe seem to pace themselves and solve these issues at their own speed, but that's usually never at the speed that anyone else would like. You should be clear about how you feel, but still keep in mind that you like him for who he is and his personality, but sometimes the SiTe get into ruts and need to be dragged out of them. Sorry this wasn't much help, but at least you know someone can empathize!

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    MaliaFee, you're totally right: he does things that provoke her and he knows it. I think you've just summed up what I've been feeling the whole time, which is to let him do his thing; being me, though, my worries are multiplied when there isn't anything I can do to help--it really blows having to see him be so down and un-him, if you get my drift. How affected was your brother by all the melodrama, if you don't mind my asking? My SLI has taken a really hard hit in all areas of his life because of the EIE and I'm concerned this has taken a toll on his judgment--they're also still living together, because "she has nowhere else to go", and I think that is a really huge part of it all. , I don't know. It's so disturbing to see so much pain and to be unable to alleviate any of it... :frown:

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    A Tiger livin' in a zoo.
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    I think this is actually more common with SLIs than you'd think. Being somewhat in a similar situation myself... =/

    A similar situation that has not resolved itself as of yet. I've backed off the "pushing in the right direction" thing because that's already happening on its own. Just way slower than I would be doing things. But then that's IEEs isn't it? Once we've come to that decision you make the changes quickly otherwise the frustration builds and builds. Forget timing. A day after their birthday? Too bad.

    Or maybe that's just me.

    Be there for him. Get him to talk about it but don't try to fix it. Just getting him to talk about it and think about it is the best thing you can do. Otherwise on his own he'll just block it out, I think.

    SLIs do things in their own time. Always waiting for the "best possible time." Listen to them. Possibly help them visualise plans. But don't push.

    That's all I've got sorry.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I'm just wondering, are you looking to the SLI as a friend or do you think you'd like to date him? It may not be relevant, but it possibly might help you organise your thoughts on the matter.

    SLI's can have a tendency to be in situations that aren't so good for them, but persevere with them anyway. I think they don't realise how bad a situation is until they're removed from it. I suppose this can be good in a way as sticking things out can be good quality, but not so good as in situation like you describe.

    So many variables and I can't really give advice as such, sorry. If like you say, she's only there because she's got no where else to go, then eventually she will (one would expect) find a better job, different friends which will provide her with more financial and social independence to move on herself.

    This is how i've seen it from my own personal perspective: it's easy to fall into a bad relationship and stay with it, but the description you give suggests to me that the relationship he's in will come to an end eventually. Sure it will and does suck for him, but.. I presume he's still young and it's a learning curve for him, because it means that when it ends, he knows what he is *not* looking for in a relationship, so the next time he's in one he'll know what he wants more so, and be aware of the danger signs earlier on, based on his previous experience.

    [Sometimes SLI's have to make their own mistakes, once they've made them, they can learn (and sometimes it helps to then talk it through with an IEE )]

    So I think there is light at the end of the tunnel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourwaltz View Post
    I can see how this might be an extreme case of "waiting for the right time" to do his thing, but what if he needs a push? He has, playfully, on occasion asked me to take him away, but that goes against my character...
    Do it.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Do it.
    I agree. Do it.

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    He has, playfully, on occasion asked me to take him away, but that goes against my character (and his, too, right??)--what else am I supposed to do?
    Don't do it. He has to solve his own problems. That's why growing up blows. lol
    IEE

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Why are you SiTe so difficult? We just want to love you :frown:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrong Way Ticket View Post

    Be there for him. Get him to talk about it but don't try to fix it. Just getting him to talk about it and think about it is the best thing you can do. Otherwise on his own he'll just block it out, I think.
    That's exactly what I've been doing. I don't want to make his decisions for him!


    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    It's amazing to see this play out in your situation as I just saw it a few months ago with my brother. Trippy! The same thing happened with them... he'd kick her out and then she had no where to go and he'd take her back because of it.

    *sigh* Hardest thing for me not to go in there and tell her off (major protective feelings towards my family here).
    The thing is, I was friends with the EIE before I was friends with the SLI. I had removed myself from her life before (we went to college together), but when she moved to my city and had no one else, I just had to be there for her... I mean, I could never hate her, but she's one of the only people I've ever actively disliked and I think that says something. But seeing as how your brother's state of mind is exactly the same as my SLI's current mindset, I guess that's just how they do! So much pain.... why?!?!?

    I feel really bad even considering this, but should I tell him things about her to convince him furthermore that they are not a good match? I could go on and on about the things she's done, not only during THEIR relationship, but beforehand, yet I think it is immoral and selfish. But then it might galvanize him into action, too, and I wouldn't mind being the bad guy for a minute.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I'm just wondering, are you looking to the SLI as a friend or do you think you'd like to date him? It may not be relevant, but it possibly might help you organise your thoughts on the matter.

    SLI's can have a tendency to be in situations that aren't so good for them, but persevere with them anyway. I think they don't realise how bad a situation is until they're removed from it. I suppose this can be good in a way as sticking things out can be good quality, but not so good as in situation like you describe.
    Yes, there's been some confusion in the matter because he has expressed interest in me, but I myself have just resolved my own relationship enigma (LSI (ended well )), and seeing where the SLI is... not a good idea, imo, to seriously consider anything of the sort. Right now, I'm just focusing on getting him back to where he was.

    Even before that happened, though, I suggested he at least take a small break from her so that he might clear up his thoughts, but that hasn't happened. Besides vomiting out all the bad things the EIE has done, I think that is the best option I can provide for him, but he hasn't taken my advice as of yet (it's been about two months or so). It's really hard to do all this though since we talk very scarcely--he is very much on the leash of the EIE and I think he talks to me against his "better judgment".

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Do it.
    !!! How could I? Personally, I think it'd be wrong + cheating...

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Why are you SiTe so difficult? We just want to love you :frown:
    Awwwww :redface:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourwaltz View Post
    !!! How could I? Personally, I think it'd be wrong + cheating...
    Subtly.
    Last edited by Park; 06-14-2009 at 10:39 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post

    Subtly.

    Haha!! I guess I've been doing that by being me and not a nutso EIE

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    It is best to follow your own instincts on this, since you are his dual.. any advice we have to give you is probably worse than your own ..
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    It is best to follow your own instincts on this, since you are his dual.. any advice we have to give you is probably worse than your own ..
    I think this is spot on, actually. You're being a typical IEE overthinking things. Analysing every angle and possibility. Relax and go with your gut.

    Yeah...

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    Figures--but who knows, I could have missed something! (; Hope I am doing the right thing by the both of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourwaltz View Post
    .. but what if he needs a push?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Do it.


    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    So now the SLI says he is leaving the apartment he shares with the EIE but is still with her because he needs her rent money to break his lease and that it is all about being pragmatic... and he said that he misses me. First off, I know that if he leaves their apartment at the end of June (when the lease situation is finalized), that that is a definite signal that he is on the move. But for good? And is he trying to replace his broken relationship with her by romanticizing our relationship? Are SLIs the type to be really infatuated with someone at the beginning and idealize them? I don't want to ruin our friendship and I am in way over my head...

    Yes, overanalyzing, but... help!

  18. #18
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    I have no idea how to help you. I think I asked earlier what stage a relationship is between the two of you, have you advanced at all in the past beyond friendship in some way or other? Maybe something for yourself to think about, perhaps. In any event, all I can really say is that some time to let him get over his partner may be required. At the same time he is free however, so why not make a move?

    You know these things already i'm sure. Maybe talking about it with someone would help. Not particularly me though I suspect. I wouldn't class myself as a relationship guru!

    Perhaps a lot of this is outwith the socionic realm. But, if he's going to be dating someone else/other people, maybe it is better to be you!

    Apparently, in a relationship, it can be common for one of the people involved to speak or refer to their previous partner often. If this is the case, it's possible it could be him that does so! In an ideal world he would date someone else then date you so that the EIE probably wouldn't get mentioned so much with you.

    However, I think fwiw, that if you do make a 'move' and it doesn't work out, if he values your friendship enough he will look past that and continue to be your friend. After all, you get on well and no harm in taking the mature outlook to such a thing. So, on finding that out by making the move, perhaps it's a good way to go for it, and if it works out then great. If he doesn't want to take things to the next level and he doesn't want to be your friend anymore, at least that way you know where you stand with your friendship, and you can move on yourself and not have to wonder about what if's over long term. Hmm, I don't like giving advice like this for a few reasons, but I suppose the information in this paragraph makes most sense to me, in terms of 'going for it' or what it would be called. Either way, good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I have no idea how to help you. I think I asked earlier what stage a relationship is between the two of you, have you advanced at all in the past beyond friendship in some way or other? Maybe something for yourself to think about, perhaps. In any event, all I can really say is that some time to let him get over his partner may be required. At the same time he is free however, so why not make a move?
    I guess my question has to do with how SLIs function after breaking off a relationship. Obviously I think the situation calls for a timeout period where we develop more normal relations outside of the present drama-filled world of the SLI, but will he be looking at me as his saving grace or anything of the sort? That kind of dependency and commitment...

  20. #20
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    It depends how much I like the person/how involved I was. On living with someone, I personally would take a break from dating for a while, at least I did previously. If I wasn't that keen on the person and had no things going on in my head in regards to it, i'd move on pretty quickly with no 'baggage' or whatever it's called. I'm not sure if this is type related though, maybe someone else could comment on how SLI's would respond. That is just me though.

    In regards to how i'd view an IEE friend, i'd probably just look for someone to have fun with, with occasional 'deep' conversation. I'm typically not that a big burdener of people in regards to what you mention. So I probably wouldn't look to you as a saving grace, I just wanna go out, go places, do stuff and have fun. Vive la present in that regards, heh.

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