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Thread: VI: ENFj vs ENFp

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    Default VI: ENFj vs. ENFp

    This thread is dedicated to Steve, who today attempted to convince me that I'm delta.

    Male ENFjs

    An ENFj:


    Me:


    Same ENFj:



    Me:





    Steve, are you learning yet?? No??

    male ENFPs

    an ENFp: (guy)


    ENFp

    an ENFp, INFj, and what the hell knows:


    two ENFps and a beta (which one's beta??? guess???):

    Last edited by JuJu; 06-10-2009 at 05:11 AM.

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    nice. the enfj is probably enfj and at the very least a beta or gamma, while the last guy definitely seems enfp!

    however, you don't have the characteristic 'shrewd' or 'worldly' look of a beta/gamma type juju. i'm afraid you may be an alpha or delta type. which is really not so bad!
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    however, you don't have the characteristic 'shrewd' or 'worldly' look of a beta/gamma type juju. i'm afraid you may be an alpha or delta type. which is really not so bad!

    heath, the traits you're ascribing are not type related

    fwiw, re: "worldly" and "shrewd"... i think you might just be bad at reading ppl... e.g. i've lived on both coasts, in between, and three foreign countries... i speak three languages... I'm on my way to my 2nd master's degree... (the other enfj has never left the country... the enfp has been to mexico and a few other places, i think... in other words, if you're going by the definitions of those words, you are incorrect in how you assessed. )

    if this is how you're typing ppl currently, maybe it's time to try something new.



    What I'm trying to show you here is Fe vs. Fi ... do you see how the enfp looks emotionally cooler..? Less fiery/emotionally sharp..? Do you see how the betas look comparatively animated and 'heavier' emotions read clearly on their faces..? This is the difference, visually, between beta Fe and delta Fi.



    hopefully seeing this stuff will shake some of your understandings... otherwise, this forum's understanding will... well, stay like it's been since you and I both got here, heath... i.e. very poor, considering the amount of time ppl spend here.

    I'm noticing that it's mostly the ppl who've been here for a long time, who've had the time to learn Socionics poorly, who are the worst at this... Newcomers seem to get it quickly.
    Last edited by JuJu; 06-10-2009 at 05:56 AM.

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    Ni ENFj:





    Ni ENFj #2




    ENFp:





    You:


    Another ENFp:



    You again:


    Dynamic vs Static is clear. EJ vs EP (direct control vs passive "looking at") also blatant.

    Fe causal-affect "tracking" vs Fi set "looking at"

    Ni "looking through" vs Ne "looking into"

    Yay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post

    ENFp:






    It's interesting to me how guys can look either ENFp or ISTp. My first thought would've been ISTp for that guy. But they do say duals can resemble each other.

    Anyway, yeah, I agree w/ Steve, and Juju looks super ENFj to me. Those Ni eyes, yup. I wish everyone I knew was cool w/ me posting pics of them here because I know a few guys w/ similar Ni eyes who are ENFj, but they'd find out somehow and that would be bad...
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    ENFj:



    ENFp:


    Conclusion: JuJu is ENFj-ENFp dual type.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    p.s. I use Model Z for my typings.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Model Z
    I heard you invented that model, no?
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I heard you invented that model, no?
    Well...

    But don't flatter me, please. I know how perfect my model is.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Well...

    But don't flatter me, please. I know how perfect my model is.
    I am going to make a model tomorrow, I'd called it Model K, just because the letter K sounds very badass, you will be my dual in that model, not my conflictor.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    heath, the traits you're ascribing are not type related

    fwiw, re: "worldly" and "shrewd"... i think you might just be bad at reading ppl... e.g. i've lived on both coasts, in between, and three foreign countries... i speak three languages... I'm on my way to my 2nd master's degree... (the other enfj has never left the country... the enfp has been to mexico and a few other places, i think... in other words, if you're going by the definitions of those words, you are incorrect in how you assessed. )

    if this is how you're typing ppl currently, maybe it's time to try something new.



    What I'm trying to show you here is Fe vs. Fi ... do you see how the enfp looks emotionally cooler..? Less fiery/emotionally sharp..? Do you see how the betas look comparatively animated and 'heavier' emotions read clearly on their faces..? This is the difference, visually, between beta Fe and delta Fi.



    hopefully seeing this stuff will shake some of your understandings... otherwise, this forum's understanding will... well, stay like it's been since you and I both got here, heath... i.e. very poor, considering the amount of time ppl spend here.

    I'm noticing that it's mostly the ppl who've been here for a long time, who've had the time to learn Socionics poorly, who are the worst at this... Newcomers seem to get it quickly.
    i type people by the most simple explanations possible. i find more often than not that shrewd calculating people are more often betas and gammas. anyway, just deal homey-- you are not enfj.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I am going to make a model tomorrow, I'd called it Model K, just because the letter K sounds very badass, you will be my dual in that model, not my conflictor.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    The way you have your hat on is fucking horrible juju.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    dude. you've all got it completely wrong.


    here, i'll show you:

    EIEs:







    IEEs:









    now, since you're experts after having viewed this unequivocally correct information, quiz yourselves:









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    Niffweed why out of all the monkey do you choose these as EIE?





    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 12-10-2009 at 08:02 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    @ollobollo, I am quite impressed with your VI skills.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    IEEs:


    So it's settled Bertrand Russell is NeFi.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    It's interesting to me how guys can look either ENFp or ISTp. My first thought would've been ISTp for that guy. But they do say duals can resemble each other.

    Anyway, yeah, I agree w/ Steve, and Juju looks super ENFj to me. Those Ni eyes, yup. I wish everyone I knew was cool w/ me posting pics of them here because I know a few guys w/ similar Ni eyes who are ENFj, but they'd find out somehow and that would be bad...
    steve said i was enfp, not enfj jewels

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    VI can be an unreliable indicator of Socionics type. At this point, way too much emphasis is placed on VI in our community.

    As regards typing, the functions are where it's at... The functions you notice ppl using... In my experience, you need to see and feel and know the functions for yourself (vs. just reading the descriptions of them) to accurately type people.

    Thus my call for better descriptions, or at least clarification regarding what VI really is.

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    Subt = broken record.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Warlord, that was hilarious. he looks just like him.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Warlord, that was hilarious. he looks just like him.
    he smells like him too

    (interesting fact: Bertrand Russell was well known for flinging his feces at people )

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    steve said i was enfp, not enfj jewels
    ah, well in that case... I think you're an ENFj still. I say that more from your writing than anything though.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Verdict:

    Juju... ENFp
    ...
    ...
    ...
    DeAnte... Needs to look more closely at the differences in the eyes of his VI subjects (Juju is way more unfocussed than anyof those)
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Niff... Is still autistic.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    interesting fact: bionicgoat should kiss my arse.

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    Verdict:

    Juju... Fe-INFp
    ...
    ...
    ...
    DeAnte disagrees that there is a signifigant enough of a difference between the "focus" of the eyes of his VI subjects to the extent of suggesting different types between any of his examples and maintains his Fe-INFp typing of JuJu until a more convincing case or compelling VI example can pursuade him to believe that JuJu is ENFp.)
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Niff... Is still autistic.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Hopefully this will elucidate this more multidimensionally:

    Here's a video of JuJu's from a year ago or whatever. Ignore the title - I'm not linking this because he thought he was ENFp, I am linking this so that you can see how he talks.



    Here's 2 Ni ENFjs talking - Fe "affect" and Ti articulation evident:





    Notice Hopkins's and Smith's demeanor, and how their face seems to light up and alternate with each wave of current from the exchange.

    JuJu doesn't talk or write like this.

    One more Ni ENFj example:



    Here's a Fe INFp, one of the people Deante referenced:



    Tupac is a ball of Fe, and is the most blatant example of directly putting out that charge looking to affect the other person - like he's constantly figuring out what Fe he's gonna push into the Se buttons. JuJu has none of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom
    DeAnte... Needs to look more closely at the differences in the eyes of his VI subjects (Juju is way more unfocussed than anyof those)
    That's what I thought as well.

    Gyllenhaal (Fe INFp):



    While not as blatantly "affecting" as Tupac in this interview, it is still there. The IP temperament, and Fe/Ti focus are clearly evinced.

    Here's a Fi ENFp:



    Some think Cook is ENFj, but if you look at the videos of the ENFjs I linked above, there is a distinct difference. JuJu and Dane Cook more or less "describe things as they are apparent" and relate from a set context. Whereas Fe/Ti people start a domino chain and tennis back and forth, basically uncovering and building on a Ti framework as the interaction goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Got it JuJu? JuJu, are you learning yet? I know it's tough teaching an old fag new tricks.
    (I know where this comes from)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    JuJu and ENFps



    Good post Steve. Even if it is chock full of odd, vague, Steve-like language, I definitely enjoyed the comparisons. JuJu obviously isn't Ni-ENFj, the choices, as far as I am concerned, are between Fe-INFp and Ne-ENFp. As much as I don't want a douche like JuJu for a "dual," I have to admitt that JuJu does appear EP > IP. Nick and ScarlettLux's videos are good examples of IP temperments sending out Fe "signals/waves" (Steve-isms <3) to the "audience," so to speak. JuJu seems more physically interactive/engaged than most IP types.

    His eyes are also as similarly unfocused as the examples to which he is compared above. Compare JuJu to interviews with any of them (Fallon, Gabriel Macht, Jason Ritter, or even Dane Cook) and you can see that they often use similar facial expressions as well.

    The INFps, like Gyllenhaal and Tupac, are able to express themselves and articulate their points more clearly while JuJu seems to be grasping for words, clumsily trying to figure out how best to express himself while totally failing at conveying the image of a "serious" presentation in a few of his videos. Seems like a quirk I've noticed in ENFps, moreso than INFps.

    Further entertaining the possibility that JuJu might be ENFp, it would definitely explain his bizzare mistypings of blatantly Ne-Si, Alpha and Delta types (Sirena, pluie, Sirena's BF [the other one, lol], Heath Ledger [Ti-ESTp JuJu, wft?], myself, Jessica, and Winterpark, Winterpark's BF, etc,) as Beta and even his mistypings of actual, "legitimate" Betas (ScarlettLux) as non-Betas, on the grounds of his ability to "smell" some non-existant "Fi" in their posts.

    Though I'm not entirely convinced at this point, JuJu as ENFp seems worth further consideration.
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 06-11-2009 at 04:56 AM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    ...Winterpark, Winterpark's BF, etc
    LMAO


    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    on the grounds of his ability to "smell" some non-existant "Fi" in their posts.
    Ahahahahaha
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Good post Steve. Even if it is chock full of odd, vague, Steve-like language, I definitely enjoyed the comparisons. JuJu obviously isn't Ni-ENFj, the choices, as far as I am concerned, are between Fe-INFp and Ne-ENFp. As much as I don't want a douche like JuJu for a "dual," I have to admitt that JuJu does appear EP > IP.
    Yeah I've noticed his energy level seems higher than that of IPs. He has an expansive experience-oriented quality to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte
    Nick and ScarlettLux's videos are good examples of IP temperments sending out Fe "signals/waves" (Steve-isms <3) to the "audience," so to speak.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte
    His eyes are also as similarly unfocused as the examples to which he is compared above. Compare JuJu to interviews with any of them (Fallon, Gabriel Macht, Jason Ritter, or even Dane Cook) and you can see that they often use similar facial expressions as well.
    Yeah hm. Never thought about Fallon, I guess he IS some ENFp.

    But yes, the sort of unfocused-ness, and a look of "looking into" is characteristic of Ne ime.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte
    The INFps, like Gyllenhaal and Tupac, are able to express themselves and articulate their points more clearly while JuJu seems to be grasping for words, clumsily trying to figure out how best to express himself while totally failing at conveying the image of a "serious" presentation in a few of his videos. Seems like a quirk I've noticed in ENFps, moreso than INFps.
    Same, glad you picked up on this. Good way to put it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte
    Further entertaining the possibility that JuJu might be ENFp, it would definitely explain his bizzare mistypings of blatantly Ne-Si, Alpha and Delta types (Sirena, pluie, Sirena's BF [the other one, lol], Heath Ledger [Ti-ESTp JuJu, wft?], myself, Jessica, and Winterpark, Winterpark's BF, etc,) as Beta and even his mistypings of actual, "legitimate" Betas (ScarlettLux) as non-Betas, on the grounds of his ability to "smell" some non-existant "Fi" in their posts.
    True. and LOL @ "Winterpark's Boyfriend"

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte
    Though I'm not entirely convinced at this point, JuJu as ENFp seems worth further consideration.
    Ok cool, fair enough. I don't know what subtype he is. I keep going back and forth, and would be interested in hearing further suggestions/reasoning on it.

    Btw kudos for always being neat and precise in your posts (pics aligned, links in sentences, etc)

  33. #33
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    lol... it's up to you guys if you want to be wrong... it's fine with me... i've actually lived this stuff in reality though, so you aren't gonna sway me any...


    p.s. why are so many virgins on this forum giving advice about relationship theory?? LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu
    lol... it's up to you guys if you want to be wrong... it's fine with me... i've actually lived this stuff in reality though, so you aren't gonna sway me any...


    p.s. why are so many virgins on this forum giving advice about relationship theory?? LOL
    lol

    translation:

    sentence 1: I'm pretending I don't care

    sentence 2: p.s. I really care

    Endearing.

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    I think that you look like an ENFJ Juju. Also got an ENFJ friend who VI's very much the same as you... and also you seem to act like an ENFJ (not an ENFP) in my opinion. ENFJ seems like a very good fit to me.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    lol... it's up to you guys if you want to be wrong... it's fine with me... i've actually lived this stuff in reality though, so you aren't gonna sway me any...


    p.s. why are so many virgins on this forum giving advice about relationship theory?? LOL
    He's an ENFj. See that certainty that he talks with? That's not an ENFp trait. ENFps are always considering ten viewpoints at once, which is why it's rare we take a firm stand on anything, without agreeing with a bunch of other viewpoints. You see how he has this attitude of "well I'm right and you're wrong because I think so." That is an ENFj decisive attitude. It also sounds like someone who likes Se.

    His second sentence there also takes a firm stance, i.e., "virgins cannot know about relationships because they are inexperienced." On one hand, it's sort of an Fe joke (also not the sort I would make because in Fi world that could offend someone). ALSO, I would never argue something like that, because there is too much gray area...like...virgins could have been in long term relationships and know MORE about relationship theory than non-virgins. But because of the Ni and Ti systems that ENFjs like, they're more likely to hold narrow beliefs or "firm" beliefs like this.

    ENFjs like ISTjs because they further give them certainty in the "correct" answer. ENFps want to know, but they don't want things to be one way or the other. They can be both ways at once. There is an openness there in ENFps that Juju doesn't have. And his eyes are not ENFps eyes (which are crafty looking, like Katharine Hepburn). They are ENFj Ni eyes.

    I know ENFps and I know ENFjs and Juju is not ENFp from the photos/info I've seen.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    I can act all certain on something and I can be ENFj too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    I can act all certain on something and I can be ENFj too.
    right...I'm not sure of your point.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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