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Thread: Weird thoughts, weird feelings of mine

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    Default Weird thoughts, weird feelings of mine

    Is there an information element most responsible for romantic thoughts or or romantic feeling portrayed through musical talent?

    I know this is asking from a vague point of view, but I'd like to know if anyone can make this connection.

    I tend to be pretty antisocial and sometimes I get worked up inside and get nervous from outer romantic influence, though usually that doesn't mean I've made any interaction, just that I felt a presence. When I get romantic feelings inside, it leads to me thinking about that person or that idea of romance and I think of places in which I've been to in my past. These places give me a nervous feeling inside. They're like flashes, and they are so incredibly ambiguous as to meaning, but I can see the details of the places. These places are usually outdoors, forests I've been to, local areas (which make me somewhat depressed), places from dreams, feeling tones in quick flashes of a place I've been to when young, places I remember but can't identify, and maybe in these places I've seen someone who gave me romantic influence, and right now I am realizing these feelings again. These places can usually be extremely irrelevant to the subject of my thoughts, but will somehow fit into the grand scheme of my "romance element." I can usually try to match these places up with a romantic quality of music, but the ambiguosity remains.

    Discussion about it with unanimous person:

    I can't believe we were talking yesterday after I came from church, because in the event of going to church, I felt extremely upset this morning
    This had nothing to do with interaction or lack of interaction
    Rather had to do with a romantic feeling inside that has been frequently expressed by mystical areas I've been
    or local areas in my town, that give me a much rather depressed feeling
    Person:
    9:39
    and what do you make of that
    Me:
    9:40
    I get this feeling when a romantic idea comes into my head, say I notice a familiar person
    The nervousness is vague ar first
    at first
    but later, when everything is over with, thats when I feel it
    right as I leave the place
    an upset depressed feeling
    Person:
    9:41
    so you recognized something romantic, and don't really know what to make of it?
    and you feel that way because you don't know what it is
    Me:
    9:41
    this connects to things in my past though
    places I've been
    huge ambiguous places
    like forests
    places from my dreams
    that all have an element of romance
    connecting a person to them
    a person who has never even been there
    its an "out and about" feeling these places give to me that make me feel lost and upset
    and yes I dont know what to make of it
    all I can do is write a little tune on the piano and connect those things together
    yet not feeling satisfied by the conclusion
    Person:
    9:43
    would you feel satisfied if people felt the emotion you were trying to convey by the song?
    Me:
    9:45
    The piece of piano music has almost nothing to do with it, that's why I find humor in music enthusiasts trying to understand the composer

    Basically memories of things that weren't negative, but that give me a negative feeling
    Last edited by 717495; 06-08-2009 at 05:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Is there an information element most responsible for romantic thoughts or or romantic feeling portrayed through musical talent?

    I know this is asking from a vague point of view, but I'd like to know if anyone can make this connection.

    I tend to be pretty antisocial and sometimes I get worked up inside and get nervous from outer romantic influence, though usually that doesn't mean I've made any interaction, just that I felt a presence. When I get romantic feelings inside, it leads to me thinking about that person or that idea of romance and I think of places in which I've been to in my past. These places give me a nervous feeling inside. They're like flashes, and they are so incredibly ambiguous as to meaning, but I can see the details of the places. These places are usually outdoors, forests I've been to, local areas (which make me somewhat depressed), places from dreams, feeling tones in quick flashes of a place I've been to when young, places I remember but can't identify, and maybe in these places I've seen someone who gave me romantic influence, and right now I am realizing these feelings again. These places can usually be extremely irrelevant to the subject of my thoughts, but will somehow fit into the grand scheme of my "romance element." I can usually try to match these places up with a romantic quality of music, but the ambiguosity remains.
    Wow, I totally relate.

    Yes, i have collections of random places, often ones that gave my good feelings, and sometimes they blend together to form a new place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Wow, I totally relate.

    Yes, i have collections of random places, often ones that gave my good feelings, and sometimes they blend together to form a new place.
    Basically memories of things that weren't negative back then, usually just normal places and events, but that give me a negative feeling

    Possibly negative feelings attatched to a place I've been previously, and other places that relate to that place

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    is it a negative feeling out of some sort of fear? Like the feelings make you unnerved?
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    ah gotcha.

    This sounds like internal object dynamics (Fe) and external field dynamics (Si)

    yeah.
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    Yep it's kind of hard to make something out of nonsense.

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    Do you mean Im being nonsensical or you are?

    I don't think you are...
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    I can see where this relates to Internal Dynamics of Objects/Fe, and I agree that the act of translating that into music via the physical action of playing an instrument involves Si, but when you talk about the "internal blending" of worlds into things that don't actually exist in concrete reality, I don't see much Si involved in that; indeed it seems very much internal, especially with the idea of "blending" actual external realities into an imagined one; the idea that they are "based on" real things, but come together in something that is purely fantasy, sounds more like Ni than Si to me; the end product has no real, tangible, "external" existence.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I can relate a lot to that idea Gilly. Although now that I say that, it must be external :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Do you mean Im being nonsensical or you are?

    I don't think you are...
    No I'm referring to myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I can see where this relates to Internal Dynamics of Objects/Fe, and I agree that the act of translating that into music via the physical action of playing an instrument involves Si, but when you talk about the "internal blending" of worlds into things that don't actually exist in concrete reality, I don't see much Si involved in that; indeed it seems very much internal, especially with the idea of "blending" actual external realities into an imagined one; the idea that they are "based on" real things, but come together in something that is purely fantasy, sounds more like Ni than Si to me; the end product has no real, tangible, "external" existence.
    Nah. Si can be used for imaginative purposes just as much as any other element. Imagination comes in many forms, and is always "intangible". This is because all thought is intangible, imagination is a vital component of thought (practiced by everyone even if its not of the "airy fairy" variety), thus to say that Si lies outside the realm of imagination is to say Si is limited in thought.

    If you are imagining a created setting, a forest, a landscape, a city, an entire world and focusing on the parts of the world, which would in fact be tangible if you were able to step into that imagined setting, than you are utilizing Si.

    The idea of imagined settings, as in a fascination with different landscapes, ecosystems, civilizations, terrains, and the focus that these things are tangibly different has much more to do with "external field dynamics" than 'internal field dynamics"

    Ni would not care about the imagined settings as unique physical contexts, and instead would focus on the hidden (and subjective) abstract meanings that are being generated.

    To put Si out of imagination is just wrong.
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    Honestly it seems like neither of those how you describe them. I don't really focus on what's physically there, rather the physical features all have their own meaning, they're "given," I don't think about them. What I think of seems much more like an internal idea or feeling. I guess Ni makes sense if its internal. Because I think nothing of external meaning. When the word "meaning" is used, it automatically makes me think of something external. But this idea of a "hidden idea" makes more sense to me.

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    eh idk man. I can't see into your head.

    And Ne is also internal
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    You could see into my head if you had a sloshgoblin. I'm assuming you don't.

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    You have assumed correctly although i posses a variety of divining implements, which may allow an indirect contact with your mind through a spirit medium.

    I will then use my knowledge for evil.
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    Do you have a tiddy box?

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    are you insulting me, sir?

    of course I do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Nah. Si can be used for imaginative purposes just as much as any other element. Imagination comes in many forms, and is always "intangible". This is because all thought is intangible, imagination is a vital component of thought (practiced by everyone even if its not of the "airy fairy" variety), thus to say that Si lies outside the realm of imagination is to say Si is limited in thought.
    I think your reasoning here is pretty obviously both shoddy and irrelevant, but nonetheless I agree that Si can be used for "imaginative purposes" : if you are imagining, say, what it would be like to fly, the specific sensations, every twitch of your wings, etc, then yes, that is at least related to Si. But the idea of placing different parts and pieces of experiences together because they share some kind of abstract quality that is not necessarily "physically" obvious is more Ni.

    But, this idea that I see being expressed, of multiple occurrences sharing similar emotional "qualities," having some kind of overlapping archetypal significance and similarity that is channeled through feelings in a person when experiencing things that feel related or parallel, that, I think, is more related to Ni+Fe than Si+Fe: seeing the "abstracted" qualities of the situation ("It all felt so surreal, like being reborn...my dream seemed so significant, like it was trying to tell me something") as opposed to concrete similarities ("In both of my dreams, I was running...This place reminds me of another place because the lighting is similar").

    From the rest of your post it sounds like we agree; I think it is mostly a matter of how we were interpreting what was said.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I think your reasoning here is pretty obviously both shoddy and irrelevant, but nonetheless I agree that Si can be used for "imaginative purposes" : if you are imagining, say, what it would be like to fly, the specific sensations, every twitch of your wings, etc, then yes, that is at least related to Si. But the idea of placing different parts and pieces of experiences together because they share some kind of abstract quality that is not necessarily "physically" obvious is more Ni.

    But, this idea that I see being expressed, of multiple occurrences sharing similar emotional "qualities," having some kind of overlapping archetypal significance and similarity that is channeled through feelings in a person when experiencing things that feel related or parallel, that, I think, is more related to Ni+Fe than Si+Fe: seeing the "abstracted" qualities of the situation ("It all felt so surreal, like being reborn...my dream seemed so significant, like it was trying to tell me something") as opposed to concrete similarities ("In both of my dreams, I was running...This place reminds me of another place because the lighting is similar").

    From the rest of your post it sounds like we agree; I think it is mostly a matter of how we were interpreting what was said.

    The bolded part is not a bad description of Ni

    I would also like to point out that it is something I do not partake in, at least in this very symbolic way. Like I do consider symbolism, but the connection to physical enviroments is generally obvious to me and I like to analyze it in a way idk if Ni types do. Meaning the symbolism always comes back to something tangible for me. The symbolism isn't some magical thing, it has origins and connections to concrete mechanisms like everything else.

    When I imagine I'm more interested in sciencey aspects. Like the interesting phenomena of this planet's ecosystem over another.

    I mean, I do use abstractions, but its more attributal. Like, pieces that when put together in certain ways make a certain form. In Se/Ni the pieces are tangible and together they make something abstract, whereas Ne/Si is more like the pieces are conceptual and together they make something tangible.

    Hmm, well I think what Polikujm is experiencing is Si related. Cuz he's recalling specific tangible environments and tracing feelings back to them even if he's unconcious of this dynamic.

    But okay, I wasn't really talking about Poli specifically I just hate hearing the Si is opposed to Ni, Ni is imaginative, so Si is unimaginative argument.
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    I understand and relate to what Gilly Is referring to. Take my avatar for example. I like how it looks, but there is something of greater meaning to it for me, and no I can't define it, but I'd be happy if I could define it.

    It likely relates to something else I have seen, but that relates to a big picture, so what I'm trying to figure out is what big picture of mine it relates to, not what "other" thing it relates to.

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    The one aspect I don't understand is why pictures and symbols? Aren't these external things that could represent the object or subject? What is meant by "external" "internal." I can understanding it referrence of judging functions.

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    Yeah I don't think greater meaning or even symbolism is monopolized by Ni.

    Symbolism is a pretty general and universal concept that can be understood by most.

    Ni-ers do seem to use lots of symbolism, however.

    External: Explicit, demonstrable, tangible, clear-cut(?)
    Internal: Implicit, non-demonstrable, intangible, hidden, latent

    For Ni-ers the symbols are external static objects (Se) that act as "nodes" for the Ni flow. They demonstrate Ni and allow it to enter reality (good for now, could be better)

    For Si-ers the latent concepts and abstractions (Ne) act as nodes for the Si flow. Without them Si would not have any separation between objects, it would like, not have parts. The abstract Ne pieces come together to form something tangible.
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    Delete request:

    Please delete the text in the OP and all quotes from it, and this post. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Delete request:

    Please delete the text in the OP and all quotes from it, and this post. Thanks.

    Why? Do you regret or feel vulnerable because of revealing something intimate/private?

    Fwiw, I relate to what you wrote in your opening post. I've had the same type of irrational feelings and images about places and people. Sometimes the feelings are negative, sometimes they are inspiring, sometimes they are just melancholy and sad.
    Last edited by Park; 06-09-2009 at 06:38 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Yeah. The thing is theyre not anywhat situational, like what if this happened and then this, in real life. It's much more just one idea that nobody can make sense of but me, and expressing that sense wouldnt make sense, simply because its not supposed to make sense, or extremely incomplete, as if its part of something bigger. It's like If I were to say:

    A

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    and expressing that sense wouldnt make sense
    You could express it through other forms of expression like music, art, or some other creative activity that is not necessarily "verbal". Or at least that's what I do, sometimes.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    You could express it through other forms of expression like music, art, or some other creative activity that is not necessarily "verbal". Or at least that's what I do, sometimes.
    I am a composer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I am a composer.
    I am one, too. (well, besides other things)

    So... would you say it makes sense expressing these feelings through music?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Yeah I don't think greater meaning or even symbolism is monopolized by Ni.

    Symbolism is a pretty general and universal concept that can be understood by most.

    Ni-ers do seem to use lots of symbolism, however.

    External: Explicit, demonstrable, tangible, clear-cut(?)
    Internal: Implicit, non-demonstrable, intangible, hidden, latent
    Yes. I believe that symbolism in all forms is generally related to intuition in some way.

    For Ni-ers the symbols are external static objects (Se) that act as "nodes" for the Ni flow. They demonstrate Ni and allow it to enter reality (good for now, could be better)

    For Si-ers the latent concepts and abstractions (Ne) act as nodes for the Si flow. Without them Si would not have any separation between objects, it would like, not have parts. The abstract Ne pieces come together to form something tangible.
    No. I think I see what you are trying to do, but...no.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I am one, too. (well, besides other things)

    So... would you say it makes sense expressing these feelings through music?
    I wouldn't know if it makes sense, lol. It's just what I do, what I have to do to stay alive. It's not some outer requirement. It's not a 5-day job. It's my life.

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