Ni egos - How do others activate/'tickle' your Se?

[ScarlettLux]

So I was on the Socionics workshop and found this in Niffweed's type thread re: his feelings towards those who supposedly 'take action' and use

all of these are very hard to identify with. my answer needs to be tweaked a bit -- it's easy for me to see why people would be motivated and driven towards a particular goal. what i felt would be the perfect answer to this question, for me, is "how can some people be so good at getting things done in the real world?" i've sometimes taken the mindset that making any type of real change or doing things with external resources is impossible and a waste of time.

one example that sticks out in my mind somewhat is a class project from 7th grade or so in which we were directed to interview somebody and construct an oral history about some socially relevant topic. most people interviewed family relatives or relatively uninteresting choices. some people ended up interviewing people that were somewhat more notable; i basically asked myself, "how did those people manage to get interviews with them? how would they do that?"

obviously, the answer is mostly in one of initiative; the process of actually picking up the phone and asking some notable person for an interview is not a difficult one. but that type of life initiative was something i never brought myself to understand.

And then there was glamourama's reply

hmm, I identify with that description perfectly (niffweed's quote). the lack of initiative to do even such "simple" things, combined with wondering "how do they do that?" about those who don't seem to have such a problem rings very true for me. what makes you think his Se is unvalued?

Reading that, I was led to wonder b/c my boyfriend is an Ni-IEI... what would make an Ni Ixxp type actually TAKE initiative and how does that compare to what is necessary for an LIE or an EIE ?

The reason I ask this is because my boyfriend needs a lot of pressure to do what appears to me to be extremely simple tasks - just like picking up a phone and calling someone like in the anecdote by niff !!! I am shocked and amazed at how difficult this seems to be for Ni Ixxps and wonder if it is similar all around or what?

It's actually quite frustrating because I tend to set my mind to something and just DO IT and take the necessary steps to achieve any certain goal... whereas I have to pressure my Ni Ixxp friends to do any small task.

Funny thing is -- and here's the crux of the topic right here -- it seems to ANNOY them when I do the pressure thing and tell them what to do. Don't they like that stuff!? I mean, eventually they all come around to doing what I ask them to, but they are sometimes seemingly grumpy and unhappy about it. Even if it's for their own good, jeez. And boyfriend in particular gets really pissy when I keep telling him to take action in certain things which really makes me question (NOT HIS TYPE! HE IS IEI-Ni FOR SURE) how exactly an SEE or an SLE would do this in a nicer way so as to actually take care of it?

Wait... do they just do it themselves FOR their dual? LOL

Thing is, I just 'do' things as well when I realize noone else is taking action, but come ON, there has got to be a less tedious way than the constant pressure for the Ni Ixxp to occasionally take action for themselves too!

[Azeroffs]

The way I see it, is that I have many goals that I would like to achieve, but I have problems taking the steps to achieve it. Making an Ni type or anyone for that matter do something is going to get on their nerves. For an Ni base I'd guess that you would have to guide them through their goals. That's what they really want. For Ni creative, I'd say it's more like I need motivation for my goals. So, yeah.. it's giving their Ni direction, not pushing them in a way you see fit. Or, allowing them to help in your plans giving their Ni use.

The way i see Se/Ni working is Ni is a planner and Se is a do-er. You can't force Ni types to do things. You have to work together to reach your mutual goals. That's why duality only works if both people are headed in the same direction.

So yeah Se is constantly working towards future goals, but is so active that they waste time and energy. Ni is also working toward future goals, but they're so busy figuring out what is pointless that they are unable to be active.

[WVBRY]

Reading that, I was led to wonder b/c my boyfriend is an Ni-IEI... what would make an Ni Ixxp type actually TAKE initiative and how does that compare to what is necessary for an LIE or an EIE ?

The reason I ask this is because my boyfriend needs a lot of pressure to do what appears to me to be extremely simple tasks - just like picking up a phone and calling someone like in the anecdote by niff !!! I am shocked and amazed at how difficult this seems to be for Ni Ixxps and wonder if it is similar all around or what?

It's actually quite frustrating because I tend to set my mind to something and just DO IT and take the necessary steps to achieve any certain goal... whereas I have to pressure my Ni Ixxp friends to do any small task.

Funny thing is -- and here's the crux of the topic right here -- it seems to ANNOY them when I do the pressure thing and tell them what to do. Don't they like that stuff!? I mean, eventually they all come around to doing what I ask them to, but they are sometimes seemingly grumpy and unhappy about it. Even if it's for their own good, jeez. And boyfriend in particular gets really pissy when I keep telling him to take action in certain things which really makes me question (NOT HIS TYPE! HE IS IEI-Ni FOR SURE) how exactly an SEE or an SLE would do this in a nicer way so as to actually take care of it?

Wait... do they just do it themselves FOR their dual? LOL

Thing is, I just 'do' things as well when I realize noone else is taking action, but come ON, there has got to be a less tedious way than the constant pressure for the Ni Ixxp to occasionally take action for themselves too!

Yeah, I relate to all this you wrote. Its hard for me to even pick up the phone and call even that that in and of itself wouldnt seem hard. Its hard for me to do most things and I find that when I set my mind on doing something, like fully focus on this being the goal I want to acheive, then it becomes easier, but this consumes energy also so I can only do it for so many things at once. This is where I use Se, and Se being volitional sensorics only allows one to have volition towards certain things at the expense of some others.

[Bardia]

I don't have a lot of experience motivating Ni egos but I have a little. To movtivate one male IEI friend I just remove distractions. Often times he is on his laptop so I close the top and take it from him lol. He doesn't seem to really be annoyed by it and it does get him motivated to go out.

This same tactic proves useful in helping to get my 2 SLI roomates to get ready quicker but they definitely get a little irritated. I always turn their TV or Xbox off so they don't take half an hour to get dressed.

I don't know how an ESTp motivates people, but I have some observations of an SEE friend. Sometimes when I or others need what he perceives as motivation he will physically pull us away from whatever we might be doing. Other times he just stares and smiles and laughs and get my face until it becomes a big distraction. I'm not really sure how he might force someone to call, or if he would even do that. He only seems to be motivated to do stuff when the time to procrastinate runs out and he knows that if he doesn't do it he will pay for it later.

[Warlord]

Funny thing is -- and here's the crux of the topic right here -- it seems to ANNOY them when I do the pressure thing and tell them what to do. Don't they like that stuff!?

Well actually not really. It's more like, that I want other people do it for me. It's possible to get me grudingly going that way, just like your boyfriend. It might prove to be just fine afterwards, but the actually getting to go is difficult.

It's also possible for Se-egos to genarally pump me up to be more active. But I don't have an explanation why, it just happens if I spend lot of time with them.

Yeah I really especially hate picking up the phone and calling, for some reason. I try to avoid it "at all costs". I even rather walk to some place, so I can avoid calling there. Although I don't like that either.

[FDG]

Well, some of these examples seem to be more function-related rather than anything else. Like, SF types are obviously better at dealing with people, when they want to, rather than NT types, which will always feel less confident at it. I also tend to avoid phone calls, because I'm not confident in speaking on the phone with a complete stranger.

Anyway, I'd say sometimes there are tasks that are quite necessary but that I tend to avoid; it's never "big" stuff, always some bureucratic paper or sending an e-mail for some confirmation of something, and usually ISFjs remind me to do that (or sometimes do it themselves, when they can). I don't think I need help to get motivated to do other tasks, though...I don't like to feel like the other person is supposed to do the work and I'm the "planner". I'd feel very bad for this kind of thing.

To movtivate one male IEI friend I just remove distractions. Often times he is on his laptop so I close the top and take it from him lol. He doesn't seem to really be annoyed by it and it does get him motivated to go out.

But for example this would annoy me a lot, lol. It's unlikely that a peson needs to do it with me though.

[redbaron]

I relate VERY well to what Niff wrote. I hate picking up the phone, even for something as simple as calling a babysitter! I don't know what the hell is wrong with me but that's how I've always been. I have a couple of examples of how my SLE friend helps me with his Se.

1. I posted about this in another thread but I'll repeat it here. A couple months ago I was torn between going to a bit milestone birthday party for a close relative of mine or staying home to do some things around here that were also important. I knew I wanted to go to the party but I just coudn't make up my mind, kept rationalizing that I didn't want to spend the money on a plane ticket, etc. Anyway, I was talking to my SLE friend about my dilemma and he was like well it sounds like you want to go to this party--I can find you a ticket that will get you home in time to do this other thing you want to do also. He literally went home, found me a flight, applied some of his voucher money to the cost of the ticket thus cutting the price by more than half, and sent me the e-ticket. It was like MAGIC. Absolutely incredible. I was in awe, completely grateful that the decision was made (not even caring that much about the money part, just the fact that he found a flight for me, that alone was seriously cool). And he acted like it was no big thing (and for him, it probably wasn't).

2. Same SLE and I like to go for rides on his motorcycle. So once I sent him an email saying that tomorrow's supposed to be beautiful, do you wanna ride? Well, he rearranged his entire schedule at work and took the day off then proceded to thank ME for getting him out on the bike.

It's more like my knowledge that he's apt to DO things, to take me up on my ideas, inspires me to throw my ideas at him. It's kind of like his Se rubs off on me a bit and gives me the courage or energy to make suggestions. I grew up with not a single person with Se in their ego block. So all of this feels completely new to me. But I will say that it wasn't instantaneous. It took awhile for him to realize that I liked it when he made things happen. And it took awhile for me to realize that he likes it when I suggest things.

eta: I guess my examples aren't good ones of him getting me to do stuff. They're more about me knowing that if I make a suggestion, he'll do stuff. lol But watching him in action does tend to make me think I can do more than I previously thought I could. He makes everything look so easy. some of the energy rubs off I think.

[redbaron]

haha I agree with you, Akra. I will say though that I don't have any trouble talking to SLE on the phone. Conversation seems easy and flowing, mostly because the SLE takes the initiative and kind of leads the conversation, making it super easy for me. Plus the SLE will notice the intonation of my voice and immediately clear up anything that is unsure. But overall, the phone is blech for me.

[electric sheep]

I kinda thought that an SLE would just make fun of the IEI for not doing something until he did it. You don't wanna look overbearing like an ESE, right?

[BlackCat]

My best friend is an IEI. I have to motivate him a lot I've noticed... and he always enjoys it when he gets motivated. For example on days when neither of us are doing anything he will be sitting at his house vegging out, and I'll talk to him and be like "dude, let's do something today". He will respond with something like "ehhh why? What would we do? Wouldn't it be the same as always?" And I will reply with something like "Oh come on, you always enjoy it when I finally force you to do something, and every time it's fun". It takes a decent bit of coaxing on days when he's being difficult, but I still manage to motivate him, and he always manages to have fun. By now he should have learned that if he just gets out and does something then he'll be fine, but I suppose not.

[redbaron]

My best friend is an IEI. I have to motivate him a lot I've noticed... and he always enjoys it when he gets motivated. For example on days when neither of us are doing anything he will be sitting at his house vegging out, and I'll talk to him and be like "dude, let's do something today". He will respond with something like "ehhh why? What would we do? Wouldn't it be the same as always?" And I will reply with something like "Oh come on, you always enjoy it when I finally force you to do something, and every time it's fun". It takes a decent bit of coaxing on days when he's being difficult, but I still manage to motivate him, and he always manages to have fun. By now he should have learned that if he just gets out and does something then he'll be fine, but I suppose not.

I need more friends like you. I dated an ESI a long time ago. He was always calling me to do stuff and he wouldn't even really ask me where I wanted to go, he'd just take me to the coolest places. it was amazing. always fun and super easy for me. these days, I have an SEE friend who'll call or email out of nowhere with ideas and invite me to do stuff. I love her. Se is good.

[BlackCat]

I need more friends like you. I dated an ESI a long time ago. He was always calling me to do stuff and he wouldn't even really ask me where I wanted to go, he'd just take me to the coolest places. it was amazing. always fun and super easy for me. these days, I have an SEE friend who'll call or email out of nowhere with ideas and invite me to do stuff. I love her. Se is good.

I'd say the benefit is mutual in this relationship, since I enjoy our deep conversations that we have. He's probably one of the best conversers I've ever met, we see different sides of the same coin. It's fun in that sense, because when we're out driving (the city we go to is about 45 minutes away) we have seemingly endless things to talk about. I think he enjoys me because I am a deep person and that I make him do stuff, and I enjoy him because he comes along with me and is deep as well.

[717495]

My best friend is an IEI. I have to motivate him a lot I've noticed... and he always enjoys it when he gets motivated. For example on days when neither of us are doing anything he will be sitting at his house vegging out, and I'll talk to him and be like "dude, let's do something today". He will respond with something like "ehhh why? What would we do? Wouldn't it be the same as always?" And I will reply with something like "Oh come on, you always enjoy it when I finally force you to do something, and every time it's fun". It takes a decent bit of coaxing on days when he's being difficult, but I still manage to motivate him, and he always manages to have fun. By now he should have learned that if he just gets out and does something then he'll be fine, but I suppose not.

Yeah, I want to move to North Carolina. I relate with this whole Ni ego perfectly. One of my best friends is an ISTj, and he's always been pretty good at forcing me to do something, especially when I lived with him. He would always move me in little simple steps, and the odd thing is those steps seem so big to me when theyre real, and not in my head, and I need that person to show me to the door like an old man, hah, than I feel much better. His dad is really friendly at doing this sort of thing. He's either an ESTp or an ISTj, not sure. Their whole family is Beta, his mom an ENFj. All together I can feel able to make plans with them when I'm in the mood to, because they're very tolerant (For some reason alphas and betas seem much more tolerant than the other quadras), and they have a way of showing me nearby obstacles or flaws in my "big picture" plan, because my mindset is further off.

[redbaron]

I'd say the benefit is mutual in this relationship, since I enjoy our deep conversations that we have. He's probably one of the best conversers I've ever met, we see different sides of the same coin. It's fun in that sense, because when we're out driving (the city we go to is about 45 minutes away) we have seemingly endless things to talk about. I think he enjoys me because I am a deep person and that I make him do stuff, and I enjoy him because he comes along with me and is deep as well.

very cool. I used to go driving with the ESI all the time. I miss that. once we were kicked out of a restaurant because we'd been there for over four hours talking about some religious or philosophical topic.

[FDG]

An alternative to this question of "How to take the initiative?" (The answer is unfortunately too simple for overcomplicated IEIs: "Just do it."), is: What is distracting you from doing something? At any given time during the day, one has to be doing something - be it eating, daydreaming, working/out, shitting, texting, masturbating, posting on an internet forum, sleeping, etc. What makes you choose one thing over another? When you find yourself unable to do something, what would you rather be doing and why?

Usually, when I find myself stuck or distracted or procrastinating, I need to simply weigh my priorities. To help with this, it's important to remember that most of our short-term goals do not exist in a vaccuum: they tie into larger goals we have for ourselves. Calling someone who is having a hard time might tie into "Be a good friend." Doing well on an exam/tryout/job interview/audition, might tie into "Be a successful student/athlete/dancer/musician/etc." Right now, I'm slogging through a particularly dry book on poetics, but what's keeping me motivated is the fact that it ties into my long-term goal of being a good writer. Sometimes resistance to completing a certain short-term goal can actually be a sign that it simply isn't the right choice for you because it doesn't fit into your long-term goals and is not a priority. More often, however, it's a matter of skewed priorities: the seduction of transitive, short-term pleasure over investment of time/energy towards a more long-term goal that is meaningful to you.

Also, I should mention that, in the long-term, doing something on your own steam is exponentially more beneficial than having external motivation from someone else (even a Se-ego): it reinforces a sense of efficacy and commitment towards your goals. Banking on the motivation of other people is an unreliable way to live. Likewise, you set up a mentality of helplessness or apathy that becomes hard to shrug off once ingrained into your behavioral habits.

Yes, nice.

[717495]

I want to add one remark to Baby's description:

Abusing your privileges!

and by doing this you will have to fix the mess you've caused, yourself. You have to be confident in these things if you expect some help from the outer world, and the first step to confidence, that very first 'intsy' step, is "just do it." Then will unfold that independent person you are on the inside, outside.

[1981slater]

I also tend to avoid phone calls, because I'm not confident in speaking on the phone with a complete stranger.

Hi...what are you wearing now?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

lol.

*also breathes heavily in anticipation*