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Thread: How do you get along with an ESFj?

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    Default How do you get along with an ESFj?

    Simple question. How do you get along with an esfj? Not buddy buddy romantic , but like...how can you have a good business 'tactful' relationship with an esfj and remain a good, safe distance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Simple question. How do you get along with an esfj? Not buddy buddy romantic , but like...how can you have a good business 'tactful' relationship with an esfj and remain a good, safe distance?
    remember that emotions are always at the forefront for esfj. so if you're in a bad mood, it's going to affect him and he's probably not going to hide his moods from you either. so being willing to roll with his moods an trying to express appreciation and positive moods with him will get you far.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    In a business setting, ESFjs can hold back their moods unless people really upset them. We are more apt to get upset and tell a friend or get mad when we get home than let it show at work. IMO a small amount of expressed appreciation towards the ESE will do you well and keep him/her working hard for/with you.
    yes. you're right about this.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    In a business setting, ESFjs can hold back their moods unless people really upset them. We are more apt to get upset and tell a friend or get mad when we get home than let it show at work. IMO a small amount of expressed appreciation towards the ESE will do you well and keep him/her working hard for/with you.
    yes. you're right about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    In a business setting, ESFjs can hold back their moods unless people really upset them. We are more apt to get upset and tell a friend or get mad when we get home than let it show at work.
    Yes, this is true for ALL the typed ESEs I know. Especially true when it comes to females.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    IMO a small amount of expressed appreciation towards the ESE will do you well and keep him/her working hard for/with you.
    Very good advice!

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    Mimosa that was dead on. Thanks!

    I ask cause my mom is ESE.

    It's like as soon as I get the least bit deep with her, I really annoy her and she barks at me and goes into like this attack mode. To be fair, this annoys a lot of people around me if I'm too deep but especially her.

    It's not that I want to get deep with my mom (ew) but I just am like this with everybody, I like to be really deep right away cause of Ni lol.

    She is also bossy with me if I'm not doing chores or something around her. If I'm not doing something immediately physically she will say that I'm being 'lazy' and this really irritates me. I also worry about her cause she seems so unhappy all the time and like she doesn't know how to get any meaning from her life, it's always go go go go go! I feel she can't see me for who I am, she can only see me for what I do. She can be naive sometimes about social roles. She thinks all doctors and therapists and priests are 'good people' just because they are well, doctors and therapists and priests. She votes liberal because to her that's just the 'compassionate one' and I feel like arggghhh.

    We clash. I don't know why I get so naive and think the relationship is salvageable just cause she's my mother because realistically, the socionic description is more accurate. However any psychological criticism of her makes her go absolutely batshit insane and shrew-ish. My INTj dad always makes her like so happy, but lol we've never gotten along psychologically. She says she desperately wants to understand me, because I'm her son. But I just don't think that's possible! We're just too different. I try to do things her way and I can force myself to see her perspectives about things but it just feels sooooooo unnatural.

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    She means well but sometimes I find her "Help" patronizing. For example, she'll compliment me for watering the flowers when it's a simple job. I always hated this from people. I remember like people clapping and saying 'good job sam' when I was younger and it made me feel self-conscious because it always felt like... half-assed and condescending and kinda "Delta-ish" to me. I much more preferred somebody giving me like a realistic compliment about my specific abilities rather than like, a general 'you can do it' message. Or playfully mocking/teasing me and just leaving me alone if I'm doing something. Actual doing something is difficult for me because I have to use Se, so I'm sensitive in that area and I don't really want to be bothered with anything psychological if I'm doing a task.
    Last edited by bnd; 06-08-2009 at 07:41 PM.

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    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    You have to understand that what you guys are talking about are innate differences that cannot be understood from the other person's point of view; that's why relationships of supervision often don't work. To the supervisee, the supervisor seems callous, critical, or hostile. For example, when ESTps talk to me, I often feel like I'm being shouted at. It's really not their fault, it's just the way they process information. But I would never be able comprehend why they act the way the do.

    If you do really want to get into a relationship with your supervisee, try to be as positive and uncritical as possible. Every time that you send out some sort of negative comment or action, your supervisee will interpret it as a PoLR hit. It's not the supervisee's fault, it's simply that they aren't good at dealing with the kind of information that you give off. I basically notice that I can deal with my supervisor if they aren't so serious; someone like Ezra who is more light-hearted about his use of Se doesn't bother me.

    The bottom line is that there is some sort of difference in the way ESFjs and INFps process information that makes mutual understanding difficult. If you're an ESFj, understand that the INFp usually isn't trying to insult you. If you're an INFp, try to be as positive as possible.

    Jason
    Last edited by jason_m; 06-09-2009 at 04:52 AM.
    LII

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    Nothing to really say here, but I am so on to Mimosa's train of thought. I just agree and there's really nothing more to add. Yay Identicals.

    I'll just try to keep it as objective and not deep as possible. I notice also ESFjs like it if I'm self-critical towards myself, as I think they really feel my supervision, so if I'm able to be self-depreciating they enjoy this. (the same thing happens with me and entjs only in reverse) However? If I'm asserting my own will and my own independence? They get very uncomfortable. Only other Betas support me in this effort, and will be on my side to defend me.

    Betas naturally want to see me in a powerful, leadership kick-ass role. You cannot blame us for this bias though, as you would feel the same way about Alphas.

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    I just want to avoid the power struggles that come from interacting with people that aren't in my quadra, so I can approach them how they need to be approached, so we can both have our independence and freedom. Other betas naturally support and uplift each other in doing whatever the hell they want.

    I wish you no harm, but just know that entjs annoy me probably as much as I annoy you sometimes, so please just a basic respect for each other while Betas rule the world. =)

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    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    I'm kind of surprised that neither of you (i.e., B&D and M.P.) responded to what I posted. Do you disagree that, knowing socionics, you should not take offence to the reactions of ESEs, given that you don't understand their psychology, nor should ESEs get upset with you, for the same reasons?

    Jason
    LII

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    Supervisors are usually in more advantageous position than their Supervisees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    the general rule I have is KEEP IT SUPERFICIAL ...

    say thank you when they "help" you, even if it's in a way you find disrespectful ....

    NEVER try and explain that your situation is more complex than they think. ...
    Copy their behavior ...
    don't tell too much about parallell experiences ...
    keep it external, don't talk about internal stuff ...
    DON'T explain what you know ...
    talk about external feel-good-things ...
    if IEIs go deep, we just end up Ni-ing them and they hate it. ...

    For you to feel good with them, think of them as coffee mates you only gossip with. ...
    NEVER tell them something you would be pissed if they start to help you with...
    This was brilliant. Wish I had learned this in college instead of useless obsolete engineering stuff.
    Greetings, ragnar
    ILI knowledge-seeker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    offer sympathy in an external way by saying "oh, that sounds bad", "that's so nice!"
    YES! I agree with this completely. My ESE mother actually criticised me for how I listened to people's problems - she told me not to offer help, but that it's most important to acknowledge how the other person is feeling, by saying things like, "You must have felt bad about that" or "The other person did the wrong thing" rather than "Maybe the other person was thinking this" or "Did you do anything to offend the other person?". Once I consciously did that, we got along much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think I prefer being supervised by LIEs to being attacked by my supervisees
    I think both are bad, for different reasons. I've seen an LIE boss/IEI underling relation, and listening to the IEI's version of events made me upset. The relationship improved when the IEI stopped attacking in supposed retaliation, of course I think supervision relations only improve when one party makes a conscious decision to act differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post


    What doesn't work?

    ME: Blablablabla what upset me.
    THEM: "You know, they were just upset because of X and they didn't mean anything by it."
    ME: [depending on the level of familiarity with the other person]"Okay... but I just blablablablabla [defensiveness]" OR Silence OR Semi-nervous laughter, and "Well, that's just great." <--sarcasm, and no idea what else to say.
    With my mom: "Whenever I try to tell you something that upset me you always back up the other person. Why can't you ever validate my feelings?" MOM: "I don't like your tone. You are not treating me very well."
    ME: "Oh my god, I was just saying..." <--ensuing fight.
    OMG, I have had this exact conversation with my husband (ESE). I will explain why someone did something or said something and he'll say "why do you automatically take the other person's side instead of mine?" and I'll say "I wasn't taking their side, I was just explaining how it probably happened so you'll understand and not be offended by them" This happens ALL THE TIME. But it totally works if I validate his feelings. When I show empathy for him, all is well.

    maliafee, it's great to have you here. There are so few ESEs on the forum. especially now that cracka's gone!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    It's threads like this: that go over my head, that make me dang sure I'm not an ethical type.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    It's threads like this: that go over my head, that make me dang sure I'm not an ethical type.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    As a person who's just recently realized she's ESE, I'm really surprised at the negative experiences/feelings with and towards my type. It's going to take some getting used to.
    I completely agree, I found this forum (and socionics) when googling ESFJ and could not believe how much disdain there is for my type. I also think it's odd that there are very few ESFJs/ESEs on these forums and wonder why that is? Did all the criticism scare them away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by basset View Post
    I completely agree, I found this forum (and socionics) when googling ESFJ and could not believe how much disdain there is for my type. I also think it's odd that there are very few ESFJs/ESEs on these forums and wonder why that is? Did all the criticism scare them away?
    I assumed it was because they're busy with other stuff. You know, like living life.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Creepy-bg

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    ESE's are good people!

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    ESE's are typically good people. Most people like ESFj's. There does seem to some bad things said about them on the forum, but it's unfair and levelled by people that for instance, maybe have some adolescent issues and somehow blame it on their mum (who they usually type as ESE).

    It may be that, I think anyway, that ESE's typically provide such a secure upbringing for their children that it can at times make the children *think* they are being smothered, but the reality is they probably don't know how lucky they are to have such a loyal parent. The world is a tough place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    It may be that, I think anyway, that ESE's typically provide such a secure upbringing for their children that it can at times make them *think* they are being smothered, but the reality is they probably don't know how lucky they are to have such a loyal parent.
    awwww, that was really sweet, Cyclops. you make a good point. ESEs do make good parents, although they can seem overbearing to certain types, it just means they care. My husband is a VERY hands-on dad. I think he's too rule-oriented at times (but thank goodness I'm here to mellow out the atmosphere, lol) but the kids do know that he's totally into his job of being a parent. He probably reads more parenting books than I do.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    ehhh I had pretty together responsible parents, the caring non-smothering type of ESE mom, and I still dropped out of highschool at 17 because getting high and sitting in Denny's allday instead of in school seemed more fun

    kids do stupid things with or without a good family setting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    And then I hear ESEs called things like "manipulative bitches"... really? Was that necessary? More than ENFj? Why not leave those comments be, because obviously the ones that are like that of both types are not healthy. I understand that intertype relations play a role, too; some types will be affected adversely by some other types, that different people would find delightful. Again, why I don't get the negativity over all towards my type.
    Also, I think with only 16 types although you get really close to describing a person, there are still varying degrees of how closely they fit each part of their description. I won't lie, I can be a manipulating bitch sometimes and definitely know how to "guilt trip" people into getting what I want. However, I'm horrible with having order in my home and most of the time my husband who types himself as an IEI is the one who has to make me clean up after myself.

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    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaliaFee View Post
    Yeah I know. But I didn't really do a stupid thing... I was falling apart emotionally... there's a lot more to it. :frown:
    sorry I realised that I phrased that kind of fucked up while I was taking a shower and it could give some offense (or bad vibes) which were not my intentions. FWIW my "stupid things" in alot of ways came out some early sexual abuse (son of a family friend)... so yeah, there was falling apart emotionally for me as well, I went cold on the outside while being torn up on the inside because I'm not at all a cold person.

    Anyways, not sure what I'm trying to say besides doing a little knuckle bump over both of us being highschool dropouts and having the regrets that come with that

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    Mmm, the Fe critiquing redbaron described seems to happen between many ethical types. My IEE friend has gotten pretty irritated by my doing this with her and I with my sister who's EII. It's not that I feel like she's taking their side because I easily understand where she's coming from, but doing it regularly just feels rude since I only vent to her when I'm stressed out and want some empathy.
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

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    Creepy-Snaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ningyo View Post
    Mmm, the Fe critiquing redbaron described seems to happen between many ethical types. My IEE friend has gotten pretty irritated by my doing this with her and I with my sister who's EII. It's not that I feel like she's taking their side because I easily understand where she's coming from, but doing it regularly just feels rude since I only vent to her when I'm stressed out and want some empathy.
    3-year thread bump!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snaps View Post
    3-year thread bump!
    FTW or FTF? *stabs self for being oblivious to timestamps*
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

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    I guess it's "for the fail".
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I guess it's "for the fail".
    Bingo.
    Probably ILI, or IE I/EIE/EII. PM me if you have ideas about my type! Ennagram 2w3 7w8 1w9.

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