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Thread: Ephemeros wants to say something about Vero's Type

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    Default Ephemeros wants to say something about Vero's Type

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    And btw, I never met flirtatious ILEs and LIIs, males and females. Did you?

    Another example of Vero typing obvious incoherence: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post421983 (sorry if I do this too often, but I've made a promise).
    You may figure out really easy the basic differences between Infantile/Caregivers and Aggressors/Victims:
    - Ne/Si are discouraged by flirting, slowness, hidden meanings, etc.
    - Ni/Se are a bit disgusted (at least rendered uninterested) by openness, "falling" easy, familiarity (farts, lol).

    I remember an issue with an IEE friend being admonished by a friend of her bf that she should not talk about her menstruation in public. It was not a very detailed talk, just a point about painkillers, because she had excruciating pain at the menstruation. But this was considered unacceptable by that guy and her that time bf (SLE).
    Ephemeros, like I said before and I'll say again, your biggest issue here is you actually do not know who I am or anything about me. Attempts to convince me or others (other than maybe Gulanzon) that I'm anything but an Ne/Si ego are completely ludicrous and demonstrate yet again that you have no comprehension of me on any level. Talking to you about my type is pointless because you're not talking about me, you're talking about some figurehead you've constructed and given my name.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    Lol, I don't know where you get this idea from. I (and others) know no more about you other that what you've written on the forum, but I'm talking about this information. You're talking as if you've never written that, this is stupid or at least childish, sorry!
    I'm not trying to find a license to kill, but I think no one should take your type seriously, because it affects Socionics discussions cause we make comparisons with forum users when talking about a certain type. All the new theoretical information in reference to you about ILEs is (and always was) offending bullshit, it never made sense, except what ILE has in common with whatever type you are (imo ILI). It's the same thing as talking Enneagram in a Model A thread.
    No, ephemeros, you simply apply a meaning to a lot of my words that does not exist. You constructed an entire persona for me that is so shockingly inaccurate that it actually amazes me that someone is capable of twisting my words without motive.

    And since we're going there, I'll address the example you gave above with the IEE and tell you that I make that kind of conversation ALL the time. Rather infamously, in fact. I once had my SEE/ESI (can't decide which) former roomie from last year confront me about it and basically shred me to pieces over the fact that I make "inappropriate" conversation and that I jump into new groups as though I'm already very familiar with them. I believe I even made a thread about it here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by incognito View Post
    You are aware that you are contradicting yourself.

    It does matter whether you are SLE or not. Your potential mistyping would be just as harmful as Vero’s potential mistyping, based on your very own logic. Purporting to be an ILE, when you are in fact an SLE, would indicate that your understanding of socionics is questionable, that all that you’ve concluded - in your understanding of yourself in relationship to others, is inaccurate. It makes any claims you make against others perceived mistypings baseless. That the insistent stalking/harassment of others on the board to ‘right’ true correlations would be as equally harmful to the community, as the member who has incorrectly typed themselves.

    Is this your first time participating in a typing community? Understandings of definitions and applications of theories, functions and relationships are debated constantly on this board and on all other boards of a similar nature. Long standing and respected members of the typing community, considered to be models for their type, after many years finally admit they’ve mistyped themselves, while other obviously mistyped members refuse to accept they are wrong end up dominating the community atmosphere, attracting new and misinformed members and clearing out other members who are actually typed correctly but are wise enough to bow out from the stupidity. I’ve participated in/observed about 10 different typing boards over the last 10+ years. This happens ALL OF THE TIME. It is an inherent risk when you join and participate. Information exchanged is mostly based on opinion, not necessarily fact. Discussions are fun and stimulating, sometimes painful. By no means, though, are these typing community boards are best and only source for obtaining true correlations.

    I think you’re taking your position and the importance of true correlations within the context of board discussions/opinions far too seriously; in fact, it borders on obsession. There is a remote, off-side chance that Vero is mistyped. And what of it? What actually would happen if she suddenly announces she is another type? It’s no different than any other situation where a long standing member does an about face. We analyze the outcome, make the mental adjustment and move on to other discussions. It's not going to cause the earth's crust to crack, sucking us all into some black hole of oblivion.

    Get over it, ephemeros. Move on to something else.
    +2

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    @mn0good: I don't see any connection between that thread and the IEE example, maybe you can point out a specific post and idea there. Just having misunderstanding with friends does not mean anything, but the reason for this.
    You also made another post about your "subtle" nature towards flirting recently, more insightful, but I could not find it again. Nothing to do with Infantile types.
    Your IEE example is something I do, and do rather frequently. The thread I linked you to was not about me having a misunderstanding with friends, but about a room mate confronting me about what he deemed was "inappropriate" behaviour. This included being overly-familiar with new acquaintances, talking about topics that were risque or inappropriate outside of close friends and being too open.

    Additionally, I don't think the descriptive dichotomy you discussed earlier actually exists. If it does, then I must be all of Ne/Si/Se/Ni because I am flirty, enjoy hidden meanings, very open and familiar (not to be confused with intimate), and flip through interests frequently.
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    Oy, mama, ce n'est pas gentile
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    Je parle un peu de Francais, aussi. Il n'y a pas une question du langage, mais vous simplement ne comprenez pas les idees que je veux vous transmettre. Je considere qu'il est futile d'essayer plus.
    The French was not for your benefit and had absolutely nothing to do with your language comprehension. I think I understand the ideas you're trying to transmit, and like I've said a thousand times I think you have garnered the completely wrong idea about me as a person based on your limited experience of me.
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    Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow did I know this was going to happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    I completely disagree with that, but you'll say again it's only my interpretation of what you've said...
    You're right.

    First of all you assign them a purpose they don't have, actually SEIs described these to me as compulsive spontaneous exaltation. They are isolate bubbles.
    That cumulative global meaning is your Ni wishful thinking (not in a derogatory sense), understand it for <whatever you want>'s sake! I really don't know what to say anymore to make you see the light .
    Interestingly enough, two other people who posted in this thread (one an SEI herself) expressed similar sentiments to my own (see below). Additionally, unless you think that I'm trying to dualize with myself, then your argument here for Ni makes no sense. I was describing my observations of SEIs in my life, not my own behaviour. My way of expressing affection has nothing to do with cumulative global meaning and really doesn't reflect that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    I think that asking an SEI to share his feelings is pretty offputting for starters. They either show or they don't. If they don't, he probably doesn't want them to show...Expressing myself without having to lay things out in black and white is what I'm about!.
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    OH wow, great advice in this thread! My good SEI friend is very much the way other SEIs are described here. He does NOT talk about his feelings, he will show me how he feels by his subtle actions (and I know he does the same with his wife and kids). At the height of our friendship when we were getting a lot closer, he did things like give me plants from his garden, give me rides when it was raining, bring me print-outs of information I had hinted I needed, etc. Sweet, sweet man. Runs from any sort of serious discussion or spelling things out. Prefers to keep things light and focused on the here and now...He also moves very slowly when committing himself. I know the story between him and his wife. They knew each other for YEARS before he decided he wanted to get married. It was an extremely slow-moving process... They don't show much of their depth on the surface though
    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    update: just gave the sentence to an SEI and she said she does not want to make something special from the feelings, but they just "come" for themselves.
    That's exactly what I said, just in different words:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    Additionally, trying to turn the nature of those feelings into something super serious or something that they need to specifically think about doing makes them feel forced. I think I can speak for most alphas when I say we want our relationships to feel organic.
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    I wasn't aware this was a "type Vero" thread.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    I wasn't aware this was a "type Vero" thread.

    Everything in Alpha Quadra that I respond to is a "type Vero" thread. Heads up.

    Ephemeros, coincidently I was a Political Science major in my first year of university. What politics has to do with any of this, beyond the fact that you don't feel it necessary to respond to my rebuttal, I have no idea.
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    You're certainly not helping the situation by responding

    Oh, Yellows. Three cheers for our attention-seeking antics!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    You're certainly not helping the situation by responding

    Oh, Yellows. Three cheers for our attention-seeking antics!
    Silence is defeat. If I have a response, I'll give it to him.
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    Only true if you think the chewbacca defence is valid.

    Anyway, the only way to win is not to play. You're already losing by stressing yourself arguing with him.

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    ephemerous you say the same things over and over again to vero, you are like a broken record. so far as I have seen, you act like a stubborn mule intellectually. everything you say seems to be based on you're SEI and you're ILEness, anybody who acts differently must not be a true type in your world because you are too stubborn to broaden your outlook on things.

    I am an SEI, and you BORE me! I would never be able to spend more than a few minutes in your presence without having to break your nose because of how annoying you are. (since you are too pigheaded to understand this, this is a joke, I would not break your nose... but I would be very very annoyed because you seem as though you are the type of person who never has anything interesting to say, yet never shuts up and thinks that everybody is interested in what you have to say. In normal ILEs this is attractive, but in your case... it most certainly IS NOT!)

    also, please please PLEASE! take some English classes if you are going to be talking to people on an English internet forum. Your English is awful and it just makes it that much more silly when you try to argue with people using it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    Me neither. It is a thread about SEIs and how are they perceived by different types. I don't see the point of your insinuation.

    Because you feel so easy to take responsibility to make such absurd declarations and, as in the past, you have no intention to sustain them logically.
    Let me exemplify for a better understanding: you declare with serenity that what other SEIs on the forum said confirm your post, which has completely no real base. Useless to say that your defensive posts are spiced with blatant fallacies, as usual: Bare assertion fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I don't answer you because in my experience between us, you almost never wrote to the point and make only false affirmations, as these previous.

    Another thing is that I never said you analyzed your behavior, which your conclusion was. So, your post is completely irrelevant imo, it's just my word against yours.
    I noticed for a long time that you think you're smarter and like to "play" with me, but the only reason I "debate" with you is to make people aware of your true nature, which actually is happening day by day, without you realizing it. My problem with the users is that most are too lazy to think for themselves without someone to point them out the inconsistencies. I'm glad both of us can take satisfaction from this game but I regret to tell you that I bite only the baits I want (we both know what I'm talking about, right?).

    I'm not interested to stay off-topic about your type, I just pointed out your different perception about SEIs, which I know is sincere, but not one belonging to an ILE. Try a relationship with an SEI and you'll see for yourself how discontent you'll be and how much you bore them.
    You mean the part where you selectively interpret every word I say to negotiate your own misguided impression? Those baits?

    Ephemeros, your arrogance astounds me. That you assume people are seeing some new side of me day by day without any evidence is ludicrous. Everytime I provide you evidence contrary to your narrow view, you back it up solely with your individual interpretation that lacks any sort of evidence. For heaven's sake, you can't even apply rhetorical fallacies correctly. My argument was an appeal to authority, not a bare assertion fallacy. Whether I am smarter than you is compeltely irrelevant to this discussion, rather it bothers me that you go around saying things that are simply untrue and misrepresent me personally, which offends me because I believe in truth.

    As for my relationships with SEIs, yet again you're proving that you haven't ACTUALLY bothered to learn anything about me on this forum before developing your ridiculous typing. I have an SEI ex-boyfriend and my room mate from first year university was an SEI, things that I've talked about on the forum several times. For the record, my relationship with the SEI ex did not fail out of discontent and boredom on either of our parts. We're still very good friends and really enjoy the time we spend together. He still tries to restart the relationship, but I ended it because I don't have have any sexual chemistry with him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    BG, give ma a break. Meantime you're a pathetic hypocrite, you're just a part of that "happy aplha group" and you talk everything by that prism. I can't evem be sure of your type, but I'm sure you double faced. And btw, why did you delete the previous post in this thread where you said you agree with me? F***ng WHY! A f***ing crap gives me ethics lessons! I don't give a sh** you are an SEI, you are not the only one and no one said an SEI can't be a demagogue. I'm not here to entertain you in any case, we have almost nothing in common, not even the Socionics interest!
    He deleted that post 2 days ago. It's completely irrelevant. It's unethical to change your mind about something you post and delete it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    BG, give ma a break. Meantime you're a pathetic hypocrite, you're just a part of that "happy aplha group" and you talk everything by that prism. I can't evem be sure of your type, but I'm sure you double faced. And btw, why did you delete the previous post in this thread where you said you agree with me? F***ng WHY! A f***ing crap gives me ethics lessons! I don't give a sh** you are an SEI, you are not the only one and no one said an SEI can't be a demagogue. I'm not here to entertain you in any case, we have almost nothing in common, not even the Socionics interest!
    see,your English here is just atrocious. I mean seriously Ephemerous, may I suggest that you just write your posts in your native language and use Google translater to turn them into English? I'm sure that they would make more sense that way


    I agreed with the first few sentences of a post that you made about SEIs (not about Vero) but then I read more of your ramblings (you really do need to work on getting to the point, perhaps reading what you write wouldn't be so dreadfully boring to read that way) and I decided that I didn't agree with what you had to say enough to say that I agreed with it.

    Don't assume shit about my interest in Socionics. You do not know me. Like you do with Vero, you childishly judge my person based solely on what you read over an internet forum. Is this that carefulness in coming to conclusions that you are so fond of ranting about and accusing others of not using???

    Also, I never said anything about my being the ONLY SEI... you are pulling things out of your ass again to try to use for an argument. What I said was a personal opinion. IMO you are a childish, boring person who takes some psuedoscience on the internet waaaaaaaay too seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    This is the same fallacy and it is NOT appeal to authority. You assert you brought evidence while you simply, just simply - did not! Where is it?!
    You referred to my using the cases of other SEIs on this forum as a bare assertion, when it was an appeal to authority. The evidence exists in the experiences I relate on this forum (for instance your example of the IEE story and my relation of identical experiences). Even my mother has told you that your impressions of me and your assumptions on how I behave are simply untrue. They are untrue. Completely made up. The only evidence I can give you to prove the contrary is my what I tell you about myself and stories about my life that demonstrate the opposite of what you are claiming about me. That's the nature of this kind of discussion. You're talking about me, after all. Are you trying to argue that I have no idea how I live my own life? That you, from a few sentences here and there on this forum (because very clearly don't read everything I write), have a better knowledge of what I do in my day to day life than I do myself? I just don't understand how you can think that. That's not even logical.

    But here, if you want to avoid evidence from the source, you can feel free to read about people's impressions of me from the New York meeting. Comments on the meeting start at post 87.


    About boredom, SEIs avoid boring people on the spot, but you won't necessarily get a "confirmation" from them because, as about most of what they feel, they hardly can put it into words or make it consciously. And I bet you are yourself rather are a person who looks for people who can entertain you, unlike ILEs and most extroverts.
    Ephemeros, you're making things up again. You're making assumptions with absolutely 0 evidence. First, my SEI ex seeks out my company more often than not and when he could have decided to end our friendship when all of his friends (and my former best friends) decided never to talk to me again over some ridiculous business, he continued to seek me out regardless of the hard time his friends gave him. And before you go jumping to conclusions again, that does not mean that I sit on my ass and make people come entertain me. I frequently seek out the company of others on my own initiative. I tend to be quite the social butterfly. Of course, I seek the company of people I enjoy, but I'm pretty open to what entertains me and have a very wide circle of diverse people I enjoy the company of. Sometimes my friends call me. Other times I call my friends. Sometimes we even run into each other on the street and decide on the spot to go do something with our free time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    He agreed with me about what I said about SEIs which is completely relevant in this thread but contradicts completely what he asserts now.

    And for the last time, if you split again the threads because you don't agree with me, I'll make appeal to Gilly. You made it off-topic and you as an ILI is only my best guess, not a final conclusion. Once again, please put it back.
    I left your original post in the original thread it was posted in then copied the rest of the conversation between us to this thread. I did the same thing with the first set of posts in this thread as you asked at that time. Nothing in any of these posts beside the first one has anything to do with the original thread discussing SEIs. If you have an issue with it, you may absolutely take it up with Gilly. I don't think that I've been unreasonable and I stand by the action I've taken to avoiding detracting from the original thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    - "You referred to my using the cases of other SEIs on this forum as a bare assertion, when it was an appeal to authority."
    It was an appeal to authority, because you claimed that my ideas of SEIs were untrue, after which I gave you two examples in which the opinions expressed by others coincided with my own. I called on those other examples as my evidence that I was not simply pulling shit out of my ass. It required that I used them as an appeal to authority, but since my ideas hold no merit with you on their own because they do not coincide with your own, I felt it necessary to prove that I am not alone in my thinking.

    - "Even my mother has told you that your impressions of me and your assumptions on how I behave are simply untrue."
    This is an appeal to my mother as an authority on the topic of my personality. Her own words are a bare assertion, but she assumes that you'll take her extensive experience as my witness to know that waht you describe about me is simply untrue. That said, I'm sure she wouldn't mind putting together her impressions on my type for you if she thought you would actually hear them. For the most part though, your assertions on my type are sooooo astonishingly unlike me that it seems almost redundant to say anything other than "this is just wrong, it is the opposite of what is true"


    - "They are untrue."
    - "Completely made up."
    - "The only evidence I can give you to prove the contrary is my what I tell you about myself and stories about my life that demonstrate the opposite of what you are claiming about me."
    This is a comment on the entire discussion and assumes that you have read all the evidence that I have given in the past.

    Additionally, the nature of talking about yourself is that you yourself have to be the person to bear witness. How can I possibly give you any evidence about me that is not from me? It's not a bare assertion for me to say "this is what I do and here are some examples of when it happened". There's no other way for me to argue about myself. For instance if you say "And I bet you are yourself rather are a person who looks for people who can entertain you, unlike ILEs and most extroverts." there is no possible way for me to explain to you that that is untrue, and that I am the opposite of that without basically giving you a bare assertion or an appeal to authority. The only authority I have to appeal to on that count is my mother, but if she answers it she also has to more or less give you a bare assertion to the effect of "When my daughter lived in my house she was always inviting friends over and is usually the life of the party." The only other real alternative is for me to start giving you a listing of every time I do something to play around with my friends and make things lively. Unless you'd like to argue that a person cannot possibly make a case for their own typing because they will always be subject to bare assertion?

    - "That you, from a few sentences here and there on this forum (because very clearly don't read everything I write), have a better knowledge of what I do in my day to day life than I do myself? "
    I have no idea why you think this is a bare assertion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    Then why the hell are you a moderator on a Socionics forum? Me and others are interested in this, what's your problem with that? Watch your own business then...
    okay I'm done with writing things to piss you off for now, so here's an honest answer. I've been here for four years now. When I initially came to the forum (and for the first few years of that) I was interested in socionics discussions and learning about it. I did that. I learnt what I needed and sought from this place.

    One of the things that I saw in the Western Socionics community is a lot of theory and talk between NTs, and very little of interest to SFs. So I began to make this forum have something interesting to SFs for the benefit of your NTs theories. Is it not preferable in you opinion to have actual SFs here to give their opinions and perspective on things rather than a bunch of NTs theorizing over what they think is going on in our heads?

    So no, I don't contribute much to the raw Socionics discussions anymore. I do however help provide and bring a social aspect to this forum to help inform and illustrate what you people are attempting to theorize about. I can't take all of the credit for this, but imo, it is what makes this forum 10x more lively and useful for illustrating Socionics concepts compared to the others in English that are rather like dry wastelands of theory.

    Does that make sense?

  37. #37
    ragnar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    provide and bring a social aspect to this forum
    Appreciated.
    Greetings, ragnar
    ILI knowledge-seeker

  38. #38
    Creepy-bg

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    thanks guys.
    Last edited by bg; 06-18-2009 at 02:15 AM.

  39. #39
    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    My answer to this thread: who cares? I used to get upset if someone questioned my type. Now, it doesn't matter to me. I have a strong enough grasp of the information elements that I can see most of the functions in others and I know how I relate to these people. So, if someone tells me that I'm anything other than LII, I can say with strong certainty that they're wrong. Therefore, if mn0good has a good understanding of her the functions and her intertype relations, then she shouldn't listen to what some idiot has to say. On the other hand, if she's deceiving herself or doesn't understand socionics, then ephermos isn't such an idiot after all.

    Jason
    LII

  40. #40
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    I completely disagree with that, but you'll say again it's only my interpretation of what you've said...
    First of all you assign them a purpose they don't have, actually SEIs described these to me as compulsive spontaneous exaltation. They are isolate bubbles.
    That cumulative global meaning is your Ni wishful thinking (not in a derogatory sense), understand it for <whatever you want>'s sake! I really don't know what to say anymore to make you see the light .

    update: just gave the sentence to an SEI and she said she does not want to make something special from the feelings, but they just "come" for themselves.
    ORLY. Mno is ILE-Ti. You probably aren't. Can you stop whining now please?

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