Fe types in the forum

[Lobo]

I would like to get the opinion of current Fe types here as to what are your feelings about the internet "forum" in general. Reason I ask is because I would not have expected Fe types to be comfortable in this type of social environment... There is no real feedback here as to how people react to what you write (though mostly it happens with angry posts) and there is no formality when addressing people, such as some sort of greeting before having a conversation in the threads, also being respectful especially towards people you haven't met before. At times it feels completely void of Fe, no art of conversation. I've fallen to that I must admit, but I wish it were different.

I've noticed that you guys seem to go on internet chats aside from the forum, so maybe that's the real pleasure you are getting. I'd be really interested to know how you feel about this, because I find it odd that you guys might like it.

[ArchonAlarion]

I would like to get the opinion of current Fe types here as to what are your feelings about the internet "forum" in general. Reason I ask is because I would not have expected Fe types to be comfortable in this type of social environment... There is no real feedback here as to how people react to what you write (though mostly it happens with angry posts)

Yeah there is. Why wouldn't there be? Is Fe only about facial expressions or something?

and there is no formality when addressing people, such as some sort of greeting before having a conversation in the threads, also being respectful especially towards people you haven't met before. At times it feels completely void of Fe, no art of conversation. I've fallen to that I must admit, but I wish it were different.

... What does this have to do with Fe?

actually that's a bit unfair of me because I know exactly what you're referring to and its BS. Fe types are not shallow, empty husks of humanity who wallow in "ethical norms" and "formality".

That has diddly-squat to do with Fe, sorry.

I've noticed that you guys seem to go on internet chats aside from the forum, so maybe that's the real pleasure you are getting. I'd be really interested to know how you feel about this, because I find it odd that you guys might like it.

I personally get pleasure from offside chats, although I dont feel this is entirely Fe related nor is it exclusive to Fe valuers.

I apologize if this sounded rude, but it doesn't have to do with Fe, although your opening desire is of course a worthwhile endeavor.

[Creepy-]

I think this is a very interesting question, Sereno. It'd be interesting to see how [or if] Fe types view/experience the forum compared w more face-to-face, real interaction....

Yeah there is. Why wouldn't there be? Is Fe only about facial expressions or something?

It's my understanding that Fe types [or possibly ethical types in general?] are particularly sensitive to people's facial expressions, voice intonations, etc... obviously most of this is missing on the forum, emoticons not withstanding.

I personally get pleasure from offside chats, although I dont feel this is entirely Fe related nor is it exclusive to Fe valuers.

Out of curiosity, which do you prefer in general: talking in offside chats [stickam style], or through the forum? I wonder whether Fe-valuers' preference here [and their reasons for it] might be socionics-related....

[Lobo]

Yeah there is. Why wouldn't there be? Is Fe only about facial expressions or something?



... What does this have to do with Fe?

actually that's a bit unfair of me because I know exactly what you're referring to and its BS. Fe types are not shallow, empty husks of humanity who wallow in "ethical norms" and "formality".

That has diddly-squat to do with Fe, sorry.

I'm confused at the impression you're getting from what I wrote. In no way I am referring to Fe types being shallow, etc. Also, I believe that I have a good understanding of Fe, but it may not be showing perhaps. I would expect Fe types to require in some way or another to know the emotional state of the person they are talking to, either by assuming or explicitly being shown through writing, in order to feel comfortable in a conversation or relation.

I personally get pleasure from offside chats, although I dont feel this is entirely Fe related nor is it exclusive to Fe valuers.

I apologize if this sounded rude, but it doesn't have to do with Fe, although your opening desire is of course a worthwhile endeavor.

If this isn't Fe, then what is it? The need for feedback in a conversation (gratefulness, acknowledgment, the introduction, goodbye) is Fe to me. I don't see anything fake about this, or attacking Fe in any way, so that took me by surprise. One reason I posted was because I feel that this is something that I like as well.

[ArchonAlarion]

I like talking on stickam, because of a few reasons:

1. Higher percentage of people I like
2. The conversations are quicker and less stratified
3. I like seeing people's faces
4. The conversations are sillier and nonchalant

I am not stupid enough to rule out my observations of Fe egos being good at reading facial expressions, just to prove a point so I will concede you that (This could still be something else, so ...idk)

@Sereno: Eh, okay getting ahead of myself there. I know you didn't say that, but i felt the implication was there, because I feel the need to maintain a conversation in such a way is superficial and "un-natural"

Also, the "explicitness" "acknowledgement" etc. is not Fe. Its Ti.

Ti perceives external field statics. In other words, "Explicit, demonstrable relations".

So if we're working in the realm of people and their doings, then Ti is whats going down when us Merry types what things to be explicit, literal, etc.

I feel very uncomfortable when there is some hidden thing going on between people and it hasn't been brought to the light of day. Its puts me on edge and makes me feel backstabbed.

So, what you said is often attributed to Fe, when it is in fact a somewhat ham-handed interpretation of Ti.

(Fe is internal object dynamics, basically what the Ti system spits out and shapes)

So Ti likes the literalness and openness and such an explicit interaction will kick into gear empowering Fe energy...

yup.

[Lobo]

I exaggerated a bit with saying that there is absolutely no feedback. I meant that there is not that much.

[717495]

Fe types probably pay most attention to intonation of voice, so the forum would definitely be void of that thus unwelcome of Fe types.

[Mattie]

Whether it is related to or not, I do have trouble on the forum from time to time (as well as other internet communication that is strictly text) because I am cut off from body language, tone of voice, etc. In offline conversations, I am aware both subconsciously and in the moment of these qualities, as it creates my impression of the person for whatever purposes. I am fine with dry humor with my friends when I can hear and see them, but dry humor is completely lost on me online. I prefer stickam chats, when there's both audio and visual used, because it simulates more natural conversation. I feel like posting on a forum is like etching my words into stone, so I would be explaining this differently, most likely, if you asked this on another medium.

[ArchonAlarion]

yeah Sky, i think this applies less so to type and moreso to just being a human being lol

[Creepy-]

Whether it is related to or not, I do have trouble on the forum from time to time (as well as other internet communication that is strictly text) because I am cut off from body language, tone of voice, etc. In offline conversations, I am aware both subconsciously and in the moment of these qualities, as it creates my impression of the person for whatever purposes. I am fine with dry humor with my friends when I can hear and see them, but dry humor is completely lost on me online. I prefer stickam chats, when there's both audio and visual used, because it simulates more natural conversation. I feel like posting on a forum is like etching my words into stone, so I would be explaining this differently, most likely, if you asked this on another medium.

+1 to pretty much everything you said here.

I wonder whether it's Fe- or even Fe/Fi ego-related, or just an individual thing after all. It'd be interesting to see what Ti/Te egos have to say....

[ArchonAlarion]

*makes stickam room and coffee*

[Lobo]

@Sireno: Eh, okay getting ahead of myself there. I know you didn't say that, but i felt the implication was there, because I feel the need to maintain a conversation in such a way is superficial and "un-natural"

Also, the "explicitness" "acknowledgement" etc. is not Fe. Its Ti.

Ti perceives external field statics. In other words, "Explicit, demonstrable relations".

So if we're working in the realm of people and their doings, then Ti is whats going down when us Merry types what things to be explicit, literal, etc.

I feel very uncomfortable when there is some hidden thing going on between people and it hasn't been brought to the light of day. Its puts me on edge and makes me feel backstabbed.

So, what you said is often attributed to Fe, when it is in fact a somewhat ham-handed interpretation of Ti.

(Fe is internal object dynamics, basically what the Ti system spits out and shapes)

So Ti likes the literalness and openness and such an explicit interaction will kick into gear empowering Fe energy...

yup.

Fe as the information element is what you are referring to as "bringing things to the light of day" in terms of your impressions/feelings on things. Ti as a function, but not as an information element, would use this information in the way you describe. At least this is my understanding of the topic.

[ArchonAlarion]

woah woah woah wha?

Can you explain more, please?

[Lobo]

Whether it is related to or not, I do have trouble on the forum from time to time (as well as other internet communication that is strictly text) because I am cut off from body language, tone of voice, etc. In offline conversations, I am aware both subconsciously and in the moment of these qualities, as it creates my impression of the person for whatever purposes. I am fine with dry humor with my friends when I can hear and see them, but dry humor is completely lost on me online. I prefer stickam chats, when there's both audio and visual used, because it simulates more natural conversation. I feel like posting on a forum is like etching my words into stone, so I would be explaining this differently, most likely, if you asked this on another medium.

I also relate to this, though I sometimes prefer writing in order to have the time necessary to be effective at saying what I want to say .

[unefille]

Fe is as much about the words selected, the phrases chosen and the content of the communication as it is about delivery. I don't have any problems with text. Text is a medium I'm very comfortable with. Text is as malleable to being manipulated so as to convey a particular mood or meaning submerged beneath the literal meaning of the words as any other instrument, such as voice, facial expressions and body language.

OTOH, I dislike chatrooms because inevitably they descent into a cesspool of stupid. That's completely unrelated to Fe and more to, well, personal taste and inclination.

ETA: Also, your comment about formality and the lack thereof on this forum, I just wanted to say that 'Fe-types' don't value formality over informality, salutations over lack thereof or anything of that nature. We value behaviour that is situationally appropriate. Part of the great thing about being Fe is being in-tune with the emotional environment and being responsive to that. This forum is not a place for formality so why should the lack of formal greetings in a place where they would be clearly inappropriate bother me?

To stress the point more, people who are 'oddly' formal make me raise an eyebrow as much as people who are blase and casual when they should not be. If people started their posts with salutations and signed off with 'warm regards' on this forum, I would think they were out of their mind. If they did it with an awareness of the inappropriateness and a sense of irony, however, I might find it charming and amusing.

[Lobo]

woah woah woah wha?

Can you explain more, please?

What I am saying is this, basically:

Fe as as information element is that aspect of "information" (however this is communicated) that deals with what I was referring to. An example would be receiving a message that says "I enjoyed talking with you yesterday." To me this is a clear example of Fe, since it is describing an emotional state.

Ti as an information element would be attributed to information that is related to logic for example, such as the statement "A should come before B" (kind of a silly example though). It's not really saying anything necessarily factual, just the sort of abstract relationship between A and B.

However, Fe and Ti as functions are different, and their position in the personality type changes things as well. For this you can simply read a type description for INTj for example, and see "what happens" when Fe is in the dual seeking. There is a difference between attributing "stimuli" to Fe or Ti, etc, and describing a function. I would assume that even referring to it as a "function" is relating it to a math function, where you have an input and an output. So the information elements are the inputs and outputs, and then you have your functions, which are what happen in-between.

*bows*

I hope I have this right .

[Singu]

...That's a really overly-simplified view of Fe. This stuff is more MBTI, I think (like saying that Fe is about formality).

[Azeroffs]

Yeah there is. Why wouldn't there be? Is Fe only about facial expressions or something?



... What does this have to do with Fe?

actually that's a bit unfair of me because I know exactly what you're referring to and its BS. Fe types are not shallow, empty husks of humanity who wallow in "ethical norms" and "formality".

That has diddly-squat to do with Fe, sorry.



I personally get pleasure from offside chats, although I dont feel this is entirely Fe related nor is it exclusive to Fe valuers.

I apologize if this sounded rude, but it doesn't have to do with Fe, although your opening desire is of course a worthwhile endeavor.

I think this proves that you can get your Fe-fix from text just fine :tongue:
You read into what was said and assumed that he was talking down. Most of us do it to a degree, I'm not saying it's a problem, just that it takes Fe.

[Creepy-bg]

what was the question?

[meatburger]

Whether it is related to or not, I do have trouble on the forum from time to time (as well as other internet communication that is strictly text) because I am cut off from body language, tone of voice, etc. In offline conversations, I am aware both subconsciously and in the moment of these qualities, as it creates my impression of the person for whatever purposes. I am fine with dry humor with my friends when I can hear and see them, but dry humor is completely lost on me online.

Another +1 to that. I actually have a some trouble on the forum because i dont really socialise here. Contrary to how i am in real life, i only really form tentative connections to people here it seems. I feel like i should be laughing at peoples posts and PMing and stuff like that but i really cant be arsed. Funnily enough i think the Fe valuing types are far more able to use this place as a social outlet than i am.

[marooned]

I perceive there being a lot of Fe on the forum.

[Wynch]

Fe is as much about the words selected, the phrases chosen and the content of the communication as it is about delivery. I don't have any problems with text. Text is a medium I'm very comfortable with. Text is as malleable to being manipulated so as to convey a particular mood or meaning submerged beneath the literal meaning of the words as any other instrument, such as voice, facial expressions and body language.

ETA: Also, your comment about formality and the lack thereof on this forum, I just wanted to say that 'Fe-types' don't value formality over informality, salutations over lack thereof or anything of that nature. We value behaviour that is situationally appropriate. Part of the great thing about being Fe is being in-tune with the emotional environment and being responsive to that. This forum is not a place for formality so why should the lack of formal greetings in a place where they would be clearly inappropriate bother me?

To stress the point more, people who are 'oddly' formal make me raise an eyebrow as much as people who are blase and casual when they should not be. If people started their posts with salutations and signed off with 'warm regards' on this forum, I would think they were out of their mind. If they did it with an awareness of the inappropriateness and a sense of irony, however, I might find it charming and amusing.

+ infinity to this post. I was about to write this exact thing, but you took care of it for me.

[Mattie]

Why? Internet gives you a chance to really KNOW someone without external disturbances like looks, gender, age, etc. I know some of the people I've met online MUCH better than people I know in real life. Meeting people superficially is only tiresome, and if you want to get really deep, then Internet is awesome, not only because of less external disturbances, also because people often are more open and honest faster online.

I value the internet as being somewhere I can meet many different people, and I do like doing just that. You can even say that's why I'm here and my interest in this forum is held at all, because this is supposed to be a place where we identify how people are different, the same, and interact with one another. I feel like you can meet people you can't as easily online than in person. And I do have close friends online that are closer than people I see often offline. I don't think that's what's talked about here, at least completely. Maybe this is a really good medium for you (or maybe valuers? Maybe more specifically XiFe?) because you can easily, and at your own pace, respond and talk to others in a way that makes you comfortable. The internet doesn't always require you to respond instantaneously, or force you act extemporaneously too often. In fact, forums (I think) discourage that sort of style.

I prefer a more fluid and organic style of conversation, which is easily found offline with other people. All I need are visual and audio ques and I flow along with it. I meet half-way when I can go on places such as Stickam or Skype, because the conversation stays organic and my ability (or preference?) to improv works well in that medium. When I post on the forum, I feel almost constrained because I have too many things in my head I want to say, and I can't say them all, but I can't possibly know really what to say because I can't really read how the other people are receiving the information. I guess I can ramble on more about this, but does this give a better idea about something?

[Lobo]

Reading back what I wrote initially I realize that it could be interpreted differently than what I had wanted. My question was focused more towards Alpha Fe, because I'm focusing on comfort. Also, I never said that you cannot get Fe through text, though I understand that it might have been implied. I think that this entire topic would depend on culture actually. But it's odd to me that "saluting" people among the other things I've mentioned is not something that all Fe valuing types would like.

There is something that I want to comment on based on what I've been reading. It's true that there is a lot of Fe going around in the forum actually. However, you guys are referring to "reading between the lines" for Fe rather than Fe as an information aspect... There is a difference between Fe as a function and Fe as explicit information. For example, saying that "you're so wrong you make ****** look right" is not really Fe. Sure, Fe as a function will recognize the underlying message being delivered, but the sentence itself is not Fe. A message is not a function. Of course, this is my own understanding on the topic, and I don't see how it doesn't make sense. I'm open to another view on this.

[Gilly]

@ Mimosa: What about Fe blocked with Si? :wink:

Personally I like written communication better than face-to-face/real life. For one, I can be clumsy in real life communication, and writing on the forum gives me more control over how I express myself. Two, I am a writer, and so I am very interested in both how people express themselves in written language, how written language can be manipulated and interpreted, and what I myself can do with written word. Three, there is no illusion of attachment or investment; I can say what I really mean here without being as anxious about the consequences of my actions. I do my best to do this in real life, but it's easier here.

[Lobo]

Is it Fe or Si, then?

Like Gilly said, Fe blocked with Si, using it to establish comfortable relations.

I like meeting people I know, but I don't salute them formally. I show affection by hugging them and smiling and telling them I'm happy to see them, but it's NEVER formal, always depending on how they and I feel. Formal greetings feel fake. If I meet people I don't know, I feel awkward, as I said in the first post. I don't want to lie and just say "Everything is fine" if they ask me "how are you?", but I don't want to tell my life story either. It took me a lot of time to understand I could just answer mechanically and NOT care. It's almost the OPPOSITE of Fe, imo. I have to turn OFF the reading of others and the conveying of my own emotions, to answer such questions. I think? Not sure it's type related though. Maybe I'm just too shy or something?

I agree cultural differences may be important here.

Actually, I think that sometimes formality is a sign of progress. I don't think formality is ever fake if you know why it's used. Take greetings for example. It's different to say "hello" because of just tradition rather than knowing that it's something that improves relations with someone, etc.

I didn't understand this?

Idk , I was directing it in general.

[Lobo]

Really? That's interesting. In what way do you feel it gives a better relation to be formal? I'll try and explain how I see it, and I'd love to hear your point of view, to understand better. Formality for me feels fake. If someone asks me "how do you do", the polite thing to do is to answer "I'm fine" or something short. If you start telling how you really feel, people will find you weird. At least you have to joke it away or be sarcastic about it, and whatever you do, your answer must be SHORT. Nobody wants your life story. So then, I end up feeling it's all fake and thus I dislike the whole situation, and want to escape it and the other person as soon as possible. In other words, I see it as making relations worse, not as improving them. There are certain exceptions to this, culturally based ones, like kissing cheeks in Italy. That's more or less the same as saying "hi" in my country. I do that, and it's of course ok. But I'm talking about the formal chit chat like "how are you?" and "where are you going?" or "what are you up to?". You instantly notice if people are interested or if they are just formal. And if it's only formalities, then again, it feels fake, and I want to escape.... etc. etc. Hmm... I like when people are real, though, and greeting people in a personal way is, imo, a much better way to go about it. Like unefille says - different situations call for different greetings.

I see what you are saying. This reminds of something that happened to me when I was kid, when I picked up the phone one day. A lady was calling to speak to my mom, and the first thing she said on the phone was "good morning," and I replied "with whom do you wish to speak to?" (it was in Spanish which is why it sounds so formal translated). The lady paused, and then said "aren't you going to answer to my good morning?" I got really angry after that, and it's kind of sad that I still remember the situation now though . It makes sense to say "good morning" back, but it's not like I didn't say it to be rude, I just didn't feel the need to say it in that moment... But in reality, I see formality better than no formality at times. It can show that although you might not feel like saying something such as "thank you" for example, it does not mean that in another time (maybe your "better" times) you actually are grateful and would have said it because you really felt like it, and that should be enough to make you say it at the particular moment... One thing I find very rude is when I open the door to a stranger and they don't say "thank you," just walking on by like nothing. In this case formality is appropriate to me, even though you don't feel like saying it. I can't really explain why exactly it is though, but that's how I see it.

[WVBRY]

Beleive it or not it also depends alot on the forum in question itself. Some places are really void of Fe like this one once was and I remember in the beginning it was really hard for me. But Ive been on other forums where its not that restrained mainly due to other Fe who make it more hospitable, like, to some extent this forum is now.

But I agree that theres no much Fe on the internet forum in general and yeah it does make me uncomfortable, but I dont have life, plus I find that in real life some people can be just as void of Fe especially out here in Blegium plus like I said it depends where on the internet you go.