Translating theoretics into the obvious?

[VixenDogFox]

Can someone please do this for me?

From WikiSocion:
"The LII is most engaged in communication when he is critically analyzing people's decisions and actions as well as how they generally are or are not consistent with certain pre-established goals. His dual, the ESE, likes hearing the LII's judgment, and simultaneously softens its edge by shifting his focus to how he is communicating his ideas, letting him see the intellectual thought process from the outside. The ESE appreciates and praises his ability to take the information seriously, but the ESE will find funny ways of reminding him of how he is coming across when he seems more serious than he realizes."

Can somebody give me sort of a skit example of the above happening in real life? I need dialogue (made up is fine), so I can understand what part of the above means (I get most of it). What would the above (especially the bolded) mean in real life speech?

[ArchonAlarion]

My mom (Fe ESE) does that to me all the time.

Basically its like, "Okay, but you need to deliver your message non-aggressively, so people are more willing to be on your side" its like,

The Alpha NT often just wants to be critical and direct with people. Like if I'm in an argument I tend not to soften my words (I have learned to although, so I'm better now). We can get pretty vicious and devastating, but then people are like "fuck you" and ignore us. The Alpha SF reminds us that if we don't deliver our arguments properly then people will not take what we say in.

We can't be like an enemy at the gates, which is our natural disposition. We have to be like a teacher who is helpful and nurturing intellectually.

So the Alpha SF listens to the analysis's we make or our theories/explanations and then relays them back to us, and helps fill in the holes where we are not elaborating enough or where we are not "connecting".

[ArchonAlarion]

yeah I actually constantly have those sorts of discussions with my mom, so the next time I have one I'll post it and that may be more informative.

[Not A Communist Shill]

ESEs help to stop the LIIs from talking at people, rather than to them; and they also help to ensure that their thoughts aren't underplayed if the LII has the habit of talking in a low monotone about every single thing.

[ArchonAlarion]

My boyfriend is quite critical of people/situations and we have a lot of discussions where he's telling me about his analysis of behavior and stuff, and I guess I do help him soften his viewpoint about it, but also I tend to encourage his thoughts a lot because I usually agree with his conclusions.

The thing that seemed weird about your answer (maybe it shouldn't have) is that it's not about my boyfriend ever being blunt to anyone in an argument (he is almost always mild/unemotional with people unless he's being funny/clever or unless he gets super pissed off). So maybe that's an ENTp thing? Because the discussions are always about things he notices about people, his judgments, and then what I think about that.

I am unemotional, but usually add comedy/sarcasm in my arguments to lighten the mood. I can also be very fire and brimstone if I get excited or feel oppressed.

[Creepy-male]

Blatant Se DS, eh Archon?

[ArchonAlarion]

I think Gul likes me.

[Creepy-male]

I think Gul likes me.

NiFe. Only ego that could see that.

The troof. This is it.

[Not A Communist Shill]

OMG! I totally do this for my boyfriend. Like, I feel like he's not actually communicating what he means or what people should hear in order for my boyfriend to be best and most fairly represented, so I help him/step in. And if he's talking low like that (totally does what you say!!!) I like to chime in and add color and conversation. He has thanked me for being that way plenty of times, especially in the beginning of our relationship. At the start of things, he pointed out, "We're so much alike but you can talk to people the way I can't, so you make social situations really good for me." I love that he appreciates me. A couple of other things he said to me that makes me think I'm just what he needs (and it makes me REALLY happy): we were visiting his family last year and I made an effort to be friendly and have fun with his relatives and he took me outside and thanked me for integrating with them and making them comfortable with me and really being part of the family when I am still an outsider. Another time after making him dinner and cleaning the house (like always, no big deal) he said, "You take all the stress out of being a guy." Which is SUCH a compliment in my book.

The way I see it (and I think either thehotelambush or Logos made this point before) - ESEs have an external passion for things, while LIIs have the same passion, but in the opposite direction (they'd like to show their full passion for something, but they never quite seem to manage it!). So a single statement from a LII said in secret like that can really mean a lot!

[ArchonAlarion]

I only get outwardly emotional when I feel I'm being forced to obey something I know is false and when people disregard my arguments for personal reasons.

Sorta like on this forum.

[ArchonAlarion]

Often its not other people actually doing that, but my perception and fear that they are.

I don't lump everyone into one group though and I've considered each person that regularily disagrees with me as having their own reasons why, personal or otherwise.

[717495]

ESEs help to stop the LIIs from talking at people, rather than to them; and they also help to ensure that their thoughts aren't underplayed if the LII has the habit of talking in a low monotone about every single thing.

Usually it's more like we alpha NTs talk at ourselves in a discussion, and we need to learn to talk at the people too. Lol.

[717495]

OMG! I totally do this for my boyfriend. Like, I feel like he's not actually communicating what he means or what people should hear in order for my boyfriend to be best and most fairly represented, so I help him/step in. And if he's talking low like that (totally does what you say!!!) I like to chime in and add color and conversation. He has thanked me for being that way plenty of times, especially in the beginning of our relationship. At the start of things, he pointed out, "We're so much alike but you can talk to people the way I can't, so you make social situations really good for me." I love that he appreciates me. A couple of other things he said to me that makes me think I'm just what he needs (and it makes me REALLY happy): we were visiting his family last year and I made an effort to be friendly and have fun with his relatives and he took me outside and thanked me for integrating with them and making them comfortable with me and really being part of the family when I am still an outsider. Another time after making him dinner and cleaning the house (like always, no big deal) he said, "You take all the stress out of being a guy." Which is SUCH a compliment in my book.

Not to criticize, but how did your boyfriend get from leading Fi to opposite strength leading Ti? It seems like such a broad leap and I'm curious to know how you made that decision. Is there a post that explains your realization of his type? Or is it just that the dual relation really fits between you two?

[ArchonAlarion]

well you first typed as INTp dude lol.

This was discussed at socionix and she explains more there.

[717495]

That's precisely why I said I wasn't criticizing lol. I'm just curious, damn it.

[ArchonAlarion]

I know poli, i was just kiddin around =)

Hey I typed as INTp too when I first came here!

[717495]

Oh did he take the type assistant where you chose from a list of words?

[ArchonAlarion]

no, it was the mizami one he took

[717495]

Lol, archon knows everything.

[ArchonAlarion]

Lol well this was discussed on socionix where i spend a good deal of time nowadays.

But yeah I do actually know everything, but I need to pretend I'm wrong sometimes so the goverment does not get suspicious.

[717495]

Try pretending your wrong without knowing your wrong. LOL. Is that even possible?

[ArchonAlarion]

I'd implode.

R u trying to kill me!

[717495]

Oh yeah, It's possible. I was going about it all wrong.

[717495]

Rick is many things. Focused and tall. Happy and small.

[717495]

Haha. That illuminates nothing... and everything.

THAT... is deep.

+12

[Not A Communist Shill]

'Rick' is venerated as the Saviour of Socionics in the West by many, but it has been speculated that 'Rick' might be the Antichrist.

[717495]

Realizing someone here's name is Rick, Rick of this forum?

[717495]

Hey I typed as INTp too when I first came here!

The more you change type, the cooler and cooler VI gets.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Realizing someone here's name is Rick, Rick of this forum?

Yep. For all those who don't know, he runs socionics.us, wikisocion.org, and socionist.blogspot.com

[crazedrat]

Sometimes after a family argument my ESE mom will start making jokes about the monkeys on the discovery channel.

[717495]

Lol.