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Thread: Subtypes can make Activity relations closer to Dual relations

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    Default Subtypes can make Activity relations closer to Dual relations

    Has anyone else noticed subtypes' effect on activity relations..?

    Or any relations?

    Ti-SLE and Ni-EIE is supposed to be an Activity relation; however, the subtypes make it feel almost like a dual relation.

    Se-SLEs and I (Ni-EIE) get along really well usually... We rarely stop talking and laughing.

    Ti-SLEs and I get along even better... They don't require as much effort to maintain the Fe, and thus I feel like I can be myself. (Not 100% like with a dual, but somewhere in the 90% range...)

    The timing's slightly different than with a dual--and things that my dual would take in earnest, a Ti-SLE makes a joke of--but overall the relationship feels really close to duality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Has anyone else noticed subtypes' effect on activity relations..?
    Since I am ENTp Ti, ESFjs Si are too damn slow and boring for me, whereas ESFjs Fe "activate" me, they are fun to be around!

    Dual relations, IMO, depend on subtypes too. ISFps Si are booooooooooooring, and ISFps Fe are just booooooring.
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    Maybe it's just a short-to-medium term thing? Talking and laughing together is good but they are not necessarily productive! I would still think dual relations trump everything else obviously.

    ...Oh I missed read this...yes, I think subtypes would have an effect, but I'd expect an EIE-Ni subtype to get on best with a SLE-Se subtype, not a Ti-subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    ISFps Si are booooooooooooring, and ISFps Fe are just booooooring.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Ti-SLE and Ni-EIE is supposed to be an Activity relation; however, the subtypes make it feel almost like a benefit or quasi-identical relation.
    Fixed.
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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Funnily enough, I think this is a phenomenon that may very well be true. I have two best girl friends and they are both LSI... I am either an EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe. They are both definitely LSIs but also obviously different subtypes - thing is, I'm not sure which is which, as I haven't had much time to read about both of them discerningly enough to know.

    Umm... I am EXTREMELY activated by one of them - I just hung out with her today and it is like overboard with the energy, can't stop talking, laughing. But it DOES feel like too much, and even a few short hours can be like a battery that is overcharging and on the verge of self-destructing or something.

    The other LSI girl I feel much more fluid and comfortable with - it is never 'activated' in the sense of high energy or anything, but just so smooth and relaxed. I do feel like I am going through therapy whenever we talk and I always feel more calm. With LSI #1 above, I feel either super hyped or drained, depending.

    I prefer LSI #2 of course. Let's see if I can talk this out. One of them seems to me to be much more rigid, more introverted and 'stiff'. I am guessing she is an LSI-Ti and the 2nd is an LSI-Se... ?

    But how would this relate to me being either EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe? Who knows.. Hm. I used to think LSI #2 was similar to an SLE in the way she acted sometimes. Dunno.

    OR - I could just be duals with both of them and perfect duality with LSI #2 and non-matching subtype duality for #1. Who knows.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Has anyone else noticed subtypes' effect on activity relations..?
    actually I had this experience with 'opposite subtype' activator. So the accepting subtype ESI with me as producing subtype ILI.

    Which makes sense if dual is best with 'corresponding subtype' since activation switches the dual functions.

    But to summarize, yes, subtype had sort of dual effect on the activity relationship. But it was stil less duality then with the worst dual that I've been with.

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    I think this might be different for me, being a "leading" subtype - I don't think an LSI-Se would have quite enough Se for me

    On a side note, it would be an asymmetric relation for me: I would want an LSI-Se, but the LSI-Se would prefer an IEI-Fe. I lose!
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    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Fixed.
    Lol... No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    ...Oh I missed read this...yes, I think subtypes would have an effect, but I'd expect an EIE-Ni subtype to get on best with a SLE-Se subtype, not a Ti-subtype.
    I'm not sure how universal this is, but in my experience I get along well (i.e. close psychological distance, generally in sync,) with the other producing subtype betas, whereas with the accepting subtypes, I usually have to exert myself a bit.

    E.g. A Se-ESTp's personality is sometimes a bit 'too much,' if that makes any sense... My Se-SLE friends are alternately really macho and on rare occasions really sappy... Ti-ESTp never gets to those extremes, and thus reminds me of my dual, Se-LSI.

    Does this make sense?

    (Having just read through this thread, yeah--my experience is the same as ScarlettLux'.)

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    Hmmm, I know one LSI female and two LSI males. I think the woman is Se sub and the males are both Ti subs. perhaps my experience is more due to gender, but I do find the Se sub easier, more comfy in a way, and the Ti subs harder, stiffer or something.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Subtypes bum me out! As if it's not hard enough to find a dual, now you have to have meshy subtypes TOO? What if you found your dual and then they found your identical and they dug this identicals subtype more than yours?

    So fuck subtypes.

    Socionics doesn't even say subtypes have an effect on relations.

    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Funnily enough, I think this is a phenomenon that may very well be true. I have two best girl friends and they are both LSI... I am either an EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe. They are both definitely LSIs but also obviously different subtypes - thing is, I'm not sure which is which, as I haven't had much time to read about both of them discerningly enough to know.

    Umm... I am EXTREMELY activated by one of them - I just hung out with her today and it is like overboard with the energy, can't stop talking, laughing. But it DOES feel like too much, and even a few short hours can be like a battery that is overcharging and on the verge of self-destructing or something.

    The other LSI girl I feel much more fluid and comfortable with - it is never 'activated' in the sense of high energy or anything, but just so smooth and relaxed. I do feel like I am going through therapy whenever we talk and I always feel more calm. With LSI #1 above, I feel either super hyped or drained, depending.

    I prefer LSI #2 of course. Let's see if I can talk this out. One of them seems to me to be much more rigid, more introverted and 'stiff'. I am guessing she is an LSI-Ti and the 2nd is an LSI-Se... ?

    But how would this relate to me being either EIE-Ni or IEI-Fe? Who knows.. Hm. I used to think LSI #2 was similar to an SLE in the way she acted sometimes. Dunno.

    OR - I could just be duals with both of them and perfect duality with LSI #2 and non-matching subtype duality for #1. Who knows.

    That's imteresting, so they activate two totally different parts of you? Cool. How often did you used to hang with them ?
    I find I can't 'activate' the ones I know lol, save one, who's a total babe and is how you describe the first one .
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Subtypes bum me out! As if it's not hard enough to find a dual, now you have to have meshy subtypes TOO? What if you found your dual and then they found your identical and they dug this identicals subtype more than yours?

    So fuck subtypes.

    Socionics doesn't even say subtypes have an effect on relations.

    Socionics say subtypes don't exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    E.g. A Se-ESTp's personality is sometimes a bit 'too much,' if that makes any sense... My Se-SLE friends are alternately really macho and on rare occasions really sappy... Ti-ESTp never gets to those extremes, and thus reminds me of my dual, Se-LSI.

    Does this make sense?
    Yes actually, that does make some sense. The Se-ESTp has too much Se for you...but wouldn't you expect a Fe-ENFj to prefer a Ti-ESTp to a Se-ESTp as well because this subtype would be closer to the ISTj type?

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    SEI = boring.

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    Ephemeros, I'm confused.

    You say that ESEs aren't fun?

    GTFO my quadra >:

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    Since when? They always make surprises and create original changes for the sake of variety. No way what you say. What I know is that they are not open to anyone.
    What I don't like about SEIs is the fact that they sometimes say "yes, yes..." but without listening to you, as SLIs do. I hate that, if I know I don't transmit any idea, I prefer to do something better.

    I don't like to spend my time with ESEs usually. They are ok, I have nothing against them. They are indeed boring, they do not refuse advices, but usually ignore them, and their fixed roadmap drives me nuts.
    What I think is stupid about extroverted feelers, especially in ESEs is their planned "having fun". How the hell can you say "let's have fun" or "let's feel good" because to have fun is something that happens, going to a party or something else does not imply you'll feel good, only after it you may say that. I bit this bait for some time, but I realized hat this actually made me feel worse.
    In my world fun just happens, most of the times when you expect less, so imo ESEs live in another dimension.
    Reminds me of the blonde twins from SUPERJAIL!

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    I agree with Winterpark. If I had one of those relations, it would feel sort of like a "mirrored" quasi-identity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    I'm not sure how universal this is, but in my experience I get along well (i.e. close psychological distance, generally in sync,) with the other producing subtype betas, whereas with the accepting subtypes, I usually have to exert myself a bit.

    E.g. A Se-ESTp's personality is sometimes a bit 'too much,' if that makes any sense... My Se-SLE friends are alternately really macho and on rare occasions really sappy... Ti-ESTp never gets to those extremes, and thus reminds me of my dual, Se-LSI.

    Does this make sense?

    (Having just read through this thread, yeah--my experience is the same as ScarlettLux'.)
    This makes sense. Also remember the suggestive. The more 5th function you get the better. It doesn't matter what type they are or what subtype you are. LIE for example will think Fi-ESI>Se-ESI and Fi-SEE>Se-SEE regardless of Ni-LIE or Te-LIE. Theoretically, Ni-LIE/Se-ESI wouldn't get along as well as Te-LIE/Fi-ESI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    This makes sense. Also remember the suggestive. The more 5th function you get the better.
    So true. I dated an ESI (Se sub) and I looooooved his Se.
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    True. depending on subtypes one ISFP will be boring to me than another. I have little need for the ISFP subtype that just stares away and being relaxed which would be the Si.

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    I've actually kinda been thinking about this the other day, and I came to the tentative conclusion that activity partners could be like duality if the subtypes matched. I kinda feel like subtypes in general affect intertype relations to a greater extent than is really acknowledged, although I have no way of backing this up.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Subtypes bum me out! As if it's not hard enough to find a dual, now you have to have meshy subtypes TOO? What if you found your dual and then they found your identical and they dug this identicals subtype more than yours?

    So fuck subtypes.

    Socionics doesn't even say subtypes have an effect on relations.

    I agree to a certain extent. I say it depends upon the SEE who I'd get along better with. There are a billion subtypes.

    Subtype only works in the sense that you divide into further values and needs. So far the subtype system doesn't do that very well. It does needs, but needs more emphasis on a better divide than just leaning toward the same set of IMs.

    However I also realize that would not make them subtypes anymore. My interests lie in figuring out more life values, than what functions are emphasized more. I can get along better with an ESI who has more values alike with me in a marriage, than an SEE who is my subtype who doesn't have as many values shared. That is why lots of relationships are potentially fitting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post

    Socionics doesn't even say subtypes have an effect on relations.

    yes it does. I can quote an article if you want.

    but the effect is minor. it doesn't change the kind of relationship, though it often changes the 'strength' of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    There are a billion subtypes.

    Subtype only works in the sense that you divide into further values and needs. So far the subtype system doesn't do that very well. It does needs, but needs more emphasis on a better divide than just leaning toward the same set of IMs.

    However I also realize that would not make them subtypes anymore. My interests lie in figuring out more life values, than what functions are emphasized more. I can get along better with an ESI who has more values alike with me in a marriage, than an SEE who is my subtype who doesn't have as many values shared. That is why lots of relationships are potentially fitting.

    What's been said in this thread so far has been great... There are a bunch of responses in this thread that I've read multiple times b/c they were so interesting -- Jarno's, aixelsyd's, Azeroff's... Several more posts in this thread... This is the best of this forum, IMO--when we can get discussions going like this.

    --

    What you write here, polikujm, I've found to be 100% true.

    In my experience, there are MANY different permutations of each Sociotype--meaning that each subtype has subtypes (lol.)

    Taking SEEs, for example: there is the Elvis Presley archetype, different than the William Shatner archetype, different than the David Lee Roth archetype, different than the Sylvester Stallone archetype, different than the Dennis Kozlowski archetype, different than the Dwight Eisenhower archetype, different than the Ted Kennedy archetype... And on and on, (not even touching upon the equally numerous different female archetypes.)

    It's AMAZING how many different archetypes fit under a single Sociotype.



    If you're ILI, how do you know which archetype best suits you..? I think your best bet is trial-and-error... Absenting that, I think you've got to look at what you find most attractive and compelling... That's usually a BIG clue as to your subtype preference.

    In a relationship, you are 100% right polikujm: shared values trumps all of this.

    --

    I've found something very interesting in studying subtypes... It's partly related to the topic:

    Subtype is not a reliable indicator of social introversion or extroversion.

    I've been surprising to learn that in trying to find subtypes I need to concentrate much more on what people say, the content of it, (over a long enough period of time to deduce patterns,) than whether they're outgoing or shy... (I used to just think that if they were shy they were the introverted subtype... You know what I mean?)

    I'll continue with the example of SEEs... Former Tyco CEO Dennis Kozlowski clearly emphasizes Se in his personality, much more than he emphasizes Fi. He bears down by force and is physically intimidating. (There are videos of him on Youtube for those who are curious.) He's Se-SEE... And Kozlowski is much more quiet and seemingly socially introverted than, say, Fi-ESFp Bobby Flay, (he's a Food Network Iron Chef.)

    In other words, one would think that the "introverted" subtype (in this case, Bobby Flay) would be more socially introverted and vice versa; however: nope... Sometimes yes, but just as often no.

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    bumping this b/c it's a good thread and I think it's really true!
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    bumping this b/c it's a good thread and I think it's really true!
    if you've discovered this phenomenon, you must be more aware and confident in your selftyping then the people who have challenged it. So why don't you write IEI again in your signature instead of this beta thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    if you've discovered this phenomenon, you must be more aware and confident in your selftyping then the people who have challenged it. So why don't you write IEI again in your signature instead of this beta thing.
    I will pm you...
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    pm me too then baron because I think its silly of you to have changed it too
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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