You're like a pocket Jung!
You're like a pocket Jung!
I have an idea from the threads of your's that I notice and sometimes comment on. We never really exchange much more than a post here and there, so I was hoping that you could find a post you made that really felt like you spoke your mind and really painted a good picture of your thoughts? Or maybe point out one of your threads that you felt like you really got to flesh out your thoughts in? Right now I'd agree with NiFe, but I only want to vote if I have a well formed opinion
I voted Beta NF. I can see you either way, but IMO your 3ness is more apparent than your 4ness, so I hesitate to say IEI outright. But it does seem likely.
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Still IEI, for the same reasons as we talked about on PM.
Reading your past threads, I'd like to ask what your reasons are that you do not think you're FiNe? I know it's not always the best to use yourself as an example, but no one has disputed that I'm NeFi and I've been NeFi ever since I've been aware of Socionics, so I'll assume for now that I totally am. There are a lot of questions and insights you bring up that I really relate to and have thought of, but this could easily be an overall NF connection. The main reason I ask is because I don't sense the valuing in your posts. Compared to B&D's posts, how Akra speaks, and beta NFs in my life, I find that you're not as... intense? I want to find a better word than that, but it's not coming to mind. In a sense, NiFe seem rather detached and unaware of things, or give off vibes of a bubbling cauldron almost... Beta NFs seem kinda like emotionally explosive to me, and that it can happen at any time.
The main post that made me wonder was "Here's what I think of YOU.... haha." Not to say Beta NFs can't/don't do this sort of thing, but I know every chance I get to list out and explain how I feel about people relating to myself, I do I found this post to be rather . I have more half-baked thoughts, but I'd like to see how you respond to what I have said so far.
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
I would say you're most certainly a Beta NF then. I personally have to agree that you're NiFe because I don't feel like you're leading at all, the way you 'talk' doesn't come off like that. So I'll vote for NiFe then
You seem Te valuing.
I'd go with ENFp.
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
I think that our similar Ni leading function was pretty evident in the subtype method thread.
You just seem like the type who wants it correct so you can move on to something new, but that doesn't necessarily mean you care to know why its correct, just that you believe it is because of the outcome and consistency of facts, showing correlation, and you're able to quickly judge these things and not question them too much, like Te types do.
If that's just wrong then let me know.
To ask you the question, how sure are you of Fe/Ti, or how "merry" do you make yourself? Could you be the serious type?
Maybe I'm overshooting, see, I can see how you could be IEI though. If you're Ti seeking, then you could be reusing understandings of logical systems, thus blending the wording together.
Exact type? I'll keep thinking.
A montage of various ENFp's including Dinki, Sirena, Jewels (for self-typed ENFp comparison) and Mimosa:
Haha sorry, for ANOTHER thread on IEI loving. !
But I really need your help
How does an IEI act when they are attracted to someone?
How do they act when they are falling in love with someone/love someone?
I know that I am one, LOL but different IEIs and all...I can't work it out .
Should I give examples for psych 101ing?
Depends in what way I like someone.... Not that I'm out there looking for love anymore, but back when I was, I think this is how I acted:
If I was "only" sexually attracted, I used to pretend to be SLE, and tried to impress him. I'd often make the first step, and be a lot more active and aggressive than I normally am.
If I just "liked" someone, but weren't really interested in anything more than to be liked back, I'd try to be "my best". Normal. And loveable. But I'd dogde any invitations from his side by talking it away.
If I was in love, I often went a bit more quiet. But relaxed. All focus on him, not on me, so I lost the self awareness I usually have/had. I bet I could sit and stare for hours. Or even close my eyes and just be in the moment. And I almost became a bit passive. And somehow dreamy. Or so happy I felt sad. Maybe naive, even? And when I spoke to them, I ended up expressing my surprise at the feelings I had completely honestly by saying really strange things like "I hear music in my head when I meet you" or "I feel like I'm floating in a beautiful city made of glass and crystal when we are together".
I think I am falling in love with my IEI friend. But I couldn't say sure because I have never felt myself falling in love before.
I feel as though I have just woken up. As though everything is different, as though I am like my old self, but far better. And he doesn't just see pieces of me or what he wants to see, he sees everything. It's like all the walls melt away and I feel so alive, nobody has made me feel like this before.
I completely understand what you other IEIs are talking about.
I don't know if he wants me (that's scaring the shit out of me) but it's too late to leave him now, I am all caught up .
What does falling in love feel like? Or is this just the way being with another IEI feels?
It breaks my heart, I know I should not want this, I know this will combust one way or another, but I don't care. Maybe sometimes you just have to say fuck the system and be with the person that makes you feel alive.
Awww, dinki, you're in love!!!
(And, technically, that means you are projecting loads of good qualities onto this guy that in reality aren't there.... BUT! if you really love him, you can forgive anything, and then why not an IEI? Identical relationships are said to be the second most likely to succeed....! )
Hope your IEI is in love with you too!! Tell him what you feel, and you'll find out.... IEIs sometimes need a bit to accept their feelings, you know
And I don't think IEIs are doomed - I love identity! The crazy thing about IEI-IEI is that ... well... both parts have the same wish to lose themselves in the other. And that gets so damn intense it's almost TOO much. But why on earth would it be bad? Aren't YOU just the nicests and most loving and loyal person? Wouldn't it be nice to be with someone like ... you? And if you wonder how he'll react, just check your own feelings.
Hmm... Is it an IEI thing to not fall in love too often? I thought I couldn't fall in love until I fell hard for the first time at 23. I was so shocked (or terrified?) by the feeling I couldn't tell him, even if he probably was just as much in love with me (he visited me every week-end, even if he lived in another city, 3 hours drive away.... I must have been blind? ) It took 7 years to get over him. (he was ILI)
The second time I fell in love, I told the guy immediately, like 10 seconds after I realized. I was so afraid of making the same mistake again.
Not attracted to your duals? Well maybe you haven't been around someone to see how it works? It's more than just mannerisms or how they talk or how they look, etc. The interaction itself between the two of you can really draw you in. But you need to experience that to see how it works...
I find that when I see Si, for example, it attracts me. Not every person is going to be "attractive" to you physically, or how they smell or whatever, but all things being equal, if there are 2 guys and one is making me more comfortable, and the other isn't, then it's clear to me who I'll be drawn to.
In the past I actually was super attracted to a couple of guys who my friends couldn't understand why I was dating. One guy wasn't "conventionally attractive" and seemed grumpy and not very sociable, so my friends were like ???? But he was an ESTj (under stress), so he didn't want to go out because he was so tired (was getting like a few hours sleep a night). But alone he'd always treat me nicely when we were hanging out and he had a lot of Si, so I was always wrapped in a blanket or something like that and always felt really comfy. My point is that I was super attracted to him when if he didn't make me feel comfortable like that, I don't think I would have been.
I remember the opposite happening w/ an INTp...he bought me a couple drinks and then wanted to go on a long walk...I said I needed to pee and he made jokes that I could go on the street. It was a looong time before we came back and found a bathroom. And then we never got any food and hung out for a long time until I was so dizzy I felt like I was going to pass out. In the end I was really pissed off that he didn't focus on making me feel comfortable, etc. So I ended up tired, hungry, w/ a headache and I absolutely hate being far from a restroom in that situation...so all in all, despite him being, as my friends said, "gorgeous" and about 6'3" and a "respected" job, I felt absolutely NO attraction for him. I didn't want to see him again.
I'm just saying the personality stuff is powerful, because it's how someone else can make you feel that attracts you also...or repels you
I must say you guys are way off on the VI this time though! There's no way mr. cutie pie here is SLI or SEI. He's the extrovert out of the two of us. I'll give more info later.
JuJu, are you out there? What say you?
Sort of a cute story: He and I have known each other since 7th grade (14 yrs ago!). We went to middle and high school together, but never spoke more than a couple of words throughout the years. Totally different universes, given the high school cliques and all that. We've recently reconnected after 8 years of no contact whatsoever (since high school graduation).
<3<3 JuJu thanks
Dudes, I will try to get more pics to post. I currently have one with friends but it is really really small. I'll post anyway.
OK, so like I said, I've known this guy forever but don't really know him know him. So far we've been on one date through which I was absolutely convinced he was SLE. I even wrote this really long post about the experience the day after, which I unfortunately () proceeded to delete by accident (). Still mad about that. We ended up hanging out for 5 hrs, so it obviously went really well. I know some of you will say that's because I'm IEE blah blah blah, but whatever, I'm not, so. If he isn't a Beta ST, my only other explanation is my almost instant attraction for all STs, at least initially. Then things sort of get weird after a while if they're not Fe valuing. But yeah, I'm incredibly attracted to STs from the get-go, I think because I immediately notice a harder edge in them vs. F types or whatever (probably Se seeking). Then they either disappoint me by failing to give me Se or I go "".
I'll know more when I see him again, which won't be for another couple of weeks since I'll be out of the country for about 11 days after today. He's already made special reservation to see me as soon as I get back though!
Seriously, you guys are like the queens of anecdotes. If your names were not on the side of your posts I would not for the life of me be able to tell who is who.
Also, I have trouble seeing Starfall, Glam, BnD, Strrrng, and Crazedrat as the same types as you
Here is some of Strrrng's, BnD's, and Glam's writings:
"No man is intact." -- Pete Dexter, The Paperboy.
The corruption will flood and suffuse us all eventually, no matter how hard we fight the current. Memories will fade, hopes will be sullied, people cleansed, killed, freed. We all lose ourselves somewhere along the way -- between our sense of duty and feeling of purpose, between expressing the truth and selling a good story, between fulfilling roles and changing the established order. Everyone falls -- often as nothing more than dried out vagrants in the desert, gasping as the stale fumes and particles are swept into us -- and lost foot-steps form the stencils that the cement for the buildings of tomorrow will be poured into. Innocents will die, the undercurrent will take care of them; the noble will perish in the silent darkness of the night ocean. Those who have been swept around and tossed back to shore will tell the tales of those formidable waters; memories will be enveloped in the relentless ripples of the waves that stole who we were yesterday and threw us into who we were to become tomorrow. It isn't some idealistic search against the current -- Fitzgerald got that shit wrong. It's an ineluctable venture into the endless land of tombs that we are compelled to set out upon, because fighting for our lives makes us feel like we are actually affecting something.
Writing is only substantial when the phenomena captured are swiftly sifted through the mind, commuted through the heart, and spit out through the ink. People really shouldn't bother writing if they think of things to jot down, sit around and word-smith, or restructure a paragraph several times for the best "feel." Motherfuckers don't even know what a feeling is these days. Like I've said before, words are bullets that penetrate into, and explode within the mind, their fragments coruscating into sporadic images and associations at lightning speed. You can't "know" what you write, you don't see the ideas just before they transfer to the paper; you just react as the impetuses hit you, striking with the tip of the pen in every direction of impact. Are people supposed to read your mind and linguistically masturbate their way to a level of "comprehension" of some neat idea that may or may not affect them? No. Read something once -- your immediate reaction is the sole beacon of quality. Write shit once, because the moment is the only thing worth capturing. Don't sit around, weaving in and out of time, slipping phrases into the empty spaces at arbitrarily-chosen intervals. Every perception, reaction, feeling -- they all need to be compressed into one pithy ball of substance. Put all the powder in the bullet, meld it together, and send it into someone's head. Don't break it down and show them how it's designed and what its purpose is and blah blah. People want to see shit, not be lectured about it. So many "writers" -- they forget this. They get carried away with things like imaginative poems, intricate storylines, eloquent syntax. There's nothing to define good writing by and you can't "become" a writer. It's just a potential, a sphere of energy that is either shattered and released or danced around and pointed to. The real writers are the ones who unlock windows of humanity, and let people feel a transitory breath of fresh air, catch a wistful glance into the vast horizon -- they actually create an effect in people that won't pass with the day and get tossed into the congestion of their dreams, only to be faintly recalled some years later. Take the timeless and evince it, take the universal and make it personal, take reality and the soul and smash them together until nobody can tell the difference anymore. That is what a real writer does.
No I'm not gonna rant about the moralizations or ethics about porn. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I'm looking up porn myself as I type this post.
But I hear a lot of guys say 'oh it's just porn it's no big deal' to me... when I try to have serious questions about its implications on society. That's a crock though. Nothing is just 'nothing' in and of itself. My Ni is too good to fall for that cop-out. Everything has some sort of consequence layered with underlying meanings, even if it's not necessarily negative.
Well okay I agree with you, hypothetically. 'Porn is just porn.' However I have a few questions for you:
1. Could you yourself HONESTLY treat a woman like they do in the porn vids? I mean, could you crack eggs on a woman's face? Pee on her, even? Stick your toes in her mouth like it was nothing? Could you bring yourself to do it? (Remember in real life straight male porn starts get paid the worst of all) Finger her asshole then make her lick your fingers ala Rocco. (I'm serious) Could you do that funny yet wtf semi-sociopathic shit that makes all young men everywhere shoot loads late at night, bored and alone in their dorm rooms?
2. What if you saw your mother or sister in a porn video....or a platonic female friend whom you have deep feelings for? How would that complicate things realistically? How would you justify that? (Again no guilt trips - I'm just curious)
3. Could you get rock hard with 12 other guys (and be all okay with that), say degrading things to a girl and then cum on her face? It wouldn't ever get to you emotionally, not even in the slightest?
4. Yeah we all have the fantasies of the porn vids and some even more extreme than that. I'm not being 'PC.' But could you really go that far, yourself, just for cash? If so- prove it, get a camera (and a whore lol) and prove you can do the things the porn stars do.
Everything has a consequence. Every particle, every form of media- it all amounts to *some*thing even if it's just a tiny little spec... it ALL matters, it all counts up to the collective whole. So to compartmentalize your sexual side this way....seems a little weird to me. In fact, it's more creepy than if you *actually* spat on a whore's face and throat fucked her... as strange as that sounds, because it's like you psychologically refuse to take responsibility for anything with the 'just porn' comments. Like that absolves the situation into nothing and you can just pssshaw it all away. Which is just weird to me, even though I actually agree with you- that porn is no big deal, and feminazis need to lay off it since some of us actually like guys treating us that way sometimes. But trying to wrap up the situation with a 'just porn' comment...is really weird to me, like deep down you ARE guilty or have acquired psychological complexes via jacking off over a video, instead of being intimate with a real person. And sadly the way we treat men's sexuality is exactly like this...
Does porn actually help your performance in bed, put it this way? In my experience it obviously doesn't do jack shit to improve you actually getting anybody else off. So I view it kind of as eating a cookie. I mean yeah cookies taste good, they're wonderful but what do they really teach you about relationships or about life? Not much at all- they just taste fucking good. So that's what I think porn is like. Eating fatty foods. Harmless to a point. And I still take it that a true man is simply one that understands the difference between fantasy and reality without losing his manly sense of frat jock humor that makes my cock raging hard. And ultimately, porn =/= sex. *Shrug* Yet I've met too many guys who seem unable to get this and really DO take porn seriously.
Which then makes me inch (just slightly though) toward the feminazis 'Politically Correct' side.
Do you think porn mediates and settles some violent/intense stuff that people naturally have?
I just talked to one of my favorite gay men (He's a mentor to me) and he explained the reason we like straight or normal guys, is because- it was primarily STRAIGHT people who called homosexuals 'gay.' It has ALWAYS been an insult used to describe us, real homosexual men have NEVER called themselves that, which is why it's so unappealing and unsexy to us. Gay is actually like queer or ******, it's an offensive term we tried to 'redeem.' But homosexual men have always never used the word 'gay' - straight people did. 'that's so gay' etc.
This made SO MUCH SENSE- and helped me put my 'straight guy fetishes' in better perspective, and also helped cure the mess of silly identifying myself based on my sexuality is. He explained way back when the 'gay community' never saw any reason whatsoever to label ourselves - until well, AIDS hit.
Now ugh I'm not saying it's offensive to refer to me as gay now, just understand that HOMOSEXUAL MEN NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT WORD FOR US IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE ALWAYS HAVE BEEN GUYS THAT LIKE OTHER GUYS. WE WERE NEVER THE ONES THAT EVEN LABELLED IT!
Gay originally meant prostitute and 'shady night life.' To equate that with homosexual men like myself, who strive to behave morally is kind of retarded on 'both sides' -- don't you think?
It just makes it sound like I'm a different species. It sounds so silly.
socially, I put forth virtually no effort. even regarding those people I have considered my "good" or "best" friends throughout life, I have made no extra effort with them, considering my interaction with them at school, home (when I had a roommate), etc. as "enough." if we talked on the phone, they were the one to call. (I really don't like talking on the phone.) if we went out, they were the one to plan it, and often they had to "drag" me out. often I make last minute excuses to get out of going out to do something. such things made me wonder if they were really "best" friends of mine, or if they just happened to be people whom I could attach the word "friend" to. to be quite honest, I'm not sure how many "real" friends I've ever had. I do like to spend much of my time alone, and I know I need to. and I'm honestly not sure if I am purposely somewhat isolating myself or not. I do like to interact with people, but the problem is most people don't interest me. I need to feel a special connection to put forth any effort, it seems, and that just doesn't happen often. when I feel a connection with somebody, I actually become become rather "obsessed" and might actually bother to take initiative; but that's usually with romantic/sexual interests, not so much "just friends." actually I am rather obsessed with the idea of connecting with people, I just don't think I've experienced it as much as I would like to have experienced it.
I have noticed that I have a tendency to ask a lot of questions, for different reasons depending on the situation. I am a curious person, and like to get people to open up to me provided I think that whatever they will reveal will be interesting. other times, I use it as a tool: maybe there is somebody who I can tell is feeling awkward and resistant to opening up, and I ask them somewhat personal, prodding, and unexpected questions in an attempt to get them to say something interesting. if they respond favorably, I feel a bit accomplished, that I've managed to have some sort of influence and possibly put them a little at ease. I also use it to get to know somebody that I'm interested in. I may ask them weird and random questions; if they don't respond well to being asked such questions, that's not a good sign for me. "good" responses are if they willingly answer such questions, or show simultaneous confusion and amusement. if they seem put off and sincerely irritated, I stop unless for whatever reason I feel like being a pain in the ass. I guess I like to play games with people, and like it even more when they reciprocate.
I certainly don't go out of my way to try and make friends, and find it rather surprising when somebody initiates something with me. "who the hell would want to talk to me?" though I can't deny I have an ego! to be quite honest, I think I have a good idea of what's "good" and what's "bad" about myself, but I'm not necessarily going to be so upfront about these things. I avoid revealing my flaws for no good reason; I dislike feeling so "weak" and exposed. unfortunately I assume that people will think less of me, or try to take advantage of me, if I put my vulnerabilities so openly out there. the paradox is that in order to achieve a total and true connection with somebody, they would probably have to be aware of these weaknesses that I don't really want to discuss in the first place!
Are you noticing the differences?
Its like you ENFp's love to share your anecdotes and relationship prescriptions. And there is this aggressiveness and bluntness in INFp writing that I do not see in yours. Like, the Ne>Se is pretty obvious imo.
Well I doubt that'll be enough to convince you and it isn't supposed to. This is simply in response to your question about similar writing styles.
summarizing archon's posts:
bits of nothingness
and a conclusion summarizing a very basic misunderstanding of Socionics.
and then a plea that you 'see what he means.'
I understand that this forum is for discussing Model A. I don't agree with Model X but that is irrelevant. Nothing in his post references Model X.
i would help him learn Socionics, (model a,) if he wants to learn Socionics... (i'm not sure if he does.)
re: his "very basic misunderstanding:" have you ever read what he writes and then compared it with model a Socionics??
i post after what he writes bc i know for a fact it confuses ppl... i have attempted to turn ppl onto model a Socionics... and then they come to this forum... and they read stuff like what he writes... and bc of it, they think Socionics is all crap.
this has happened numerous times... with numerous different ppl.
i'm sick of it.
i dislike that bc ppl aren't taking the time to learn Socionics properly, (e.g. Model x,) and applying it wily-nily, that others are being turned-off... and Socionics is getting a bad name bc of it.
hopefully that answers whatever you were getting at
I agree that it can be frustrating arguing over what is correct in Socionics and that it can be confusing when new people read the conflicting information, but it doesn't mean that people who follow Model X never post anything useful. You can't simply try to make them look like idiots all the time because you disagree with them. There needs to be a balance between what is correct and freedom of thought.
model X .. it's just wrong. tbh it annoys me we even give it enough credit to call it model X. there are tons of stupid ideas, and I'm glad those don't get a name, too. I know I can tear apart model X. If juju says he can tear it apart.. Yeah, I bet he can. The model is wrong.
Sorry for hijacking your thread mimosa. Juju, if you want to continue this conversation then just PM me.
At this point in time my guess for your type would be INFp.
You seem like an alright sort Mimosa. I mean, I get along with you ok. You don't piss me off. You seem smart enough. But, trying to play little philosopher based on human behaviors is just an effort in futility.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
I think INFp is a fine typing for you. Your posts have lots of Ni and little Ne.
You also interpret things from an ethical, Fe type of way imo, rather than sticking to the facts.
Didn't we already establish that male INFps are going to sound more direct & aggressive being males (even if they are stereotypically alpha male jock or a passive fag that likes fashion design), as well as males of any type? It's just testosterone....
Yeah the genders are more alike than they are different but all men are hard-wired to be direct and aggressive.
n0ki: If it weren't for faggy civilization, people like me and bnd would be totally dead by now.
It doesn't feel like I completely know where you guys are coming from compared to IEE's. Or like long lost friends like EII's feel.
No, it's more like I feel you guys are pretty damn mysterious but the sweet thing is, is that everything I discover about you, I like.
There's more I want to say but I think I'll hold back for now.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
Two Alpha SFs, both male, talking about relationships will still bring up feelery stuff, but the conversation will move in a series of problems and resolutions. (Been in this situation.)
Compare to my grandma's writing group... we just sat around for, like, three hours exchanging anecdotes or something. Totally different.
I'd prefer to say that testosterone leads to structured and result-based thinking.
I think the "angry IEIs" are just trying to get compliments directed at their DS. Much like myself and craziness. I also think that this sort of behaviour tones down with age.