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Thread: Subtypes: Te-INTp or Ni-ENTj (Te-ILI vs. Ni-LIE)

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    Default Subtypes: Te-INTp or Ni-ENTj (Te-ILI vs. Ni-LIE)

    I have become increasingly unsure of which type I am. I identify with both Te-ILI and Ni-LIE descriptions on Wikisocion. I'm quite sure of being enneagram 5 which agrees more with ILI, and I' quite certain of being MBTI INTP. I recognize that I'm usually more on the introverted side, and feel exhausted by people I don't easily connect with, especially new people. I identify more with the IP temperament, although efficiency is important().

    However, when I look at the functions and seem equally used. I don't feel that vulnerable to . I'm uncomfortable with it, but I can adapt myself to it with some ease. I do feel uncomfortable when I'm expected to show . (e.g. someone is crying) Sometimes I'm able to figure out something to say though. is pretty foreign to me. I always have a hard time figuring out what would be the most fun thing to do. I always have people telling me "change into something more comfortable", to which I don't feel necessary(often I'm confused at why they would even notice that I'm wearing something that could be considered uncomfortable). I have gone a whole day without realizing that I'm hungry. I feel like I could be around all day while although useful, i don't see as important as . I have a hard time explaining things. I have poor understanding of the demonstrative function, but shouldn't demonstrative be good at explaining things? I feel like I demonstrate more.

    I feel uncomfortable around an SLI, though we have a lot in common (ILI business, LIE supervisor)
    I feel like I can relate a lot to an IEI, though shes somewhat closed off (ILI kindred, LIE supervisee)
    Another IEI, I feel like I have a lot in common with, but she's just too sensitive.
    I am constantly fighting/avoiding an ESE. Big age difference as well. (ILI conflictor, LIE super-ego)
    I really enjoy conversations with an EII, we haven't had a lot of opportunity to get too close though.(ILI beneficiary, LIE semi-dual)
    I've had a lot of fun with SEEs, but I find them overly reckless (ILI dual, LIE activity)
    I really enjoy talking with an IEE (ILI mirage, LIE benefactor)

    so, yeah.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...611-vi-me.html

    Pictures for VI. They are somewhat posed though.


    Just ask if you need more info.
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    I doubt it. Highly.

    Honestly, I think you're probably Alpha.


    edit: Well, maybe Delta.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I doubt it. Highly.

    Honestly, I think you're probably Alpha.
    care to elaborate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    care to elaborate?
    The VI thread you linked to. IMO you're just not Gamma NT from your photos—posed or not, you just aren't. And judging from what you've written above, you don't have much grounds for it either. “I want Fi” and “efficiency is important()” doesn't mean anything in the way that you're using it; also, it's pretty much a dead giveaway that you aren't familiar enough with Socionics yet. Btw, not trying to sound harsh or anything. Just my opinion.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Regardless with how familiar I am. I'm shocked at how certain you are.

    The way I meant it is that I'm put off when things are done inefficiently, and I really enjoy being in an atmosphere, where I can tell everyone is getting along though it is not necessarily a warm atmosphere. Though I can't see how anyone wouldn't want that.

    I'm not arguing that I know a lot about socionics, but could you give me a reasoning for what you say, specifically so maybe I can learn something?
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    i think you're INFp right now. can you extrapolate on how you've come to the conclusion that you're gamma NT? something besides, "i like Fi and i use Te."
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    I'm honestly not completely sure about the quadras, but here are some traits.

    I can't stand useless bullshit. I hate being around people I feel like are wasting my time or doing anything that I feel like is a waste of time. I have a hard time expressing anger though, and I tend to just bear things and go with it. I make a lot of long term plans and often have problems going about actually carrying them out. It seems like the only times I really enjoy someone's company is in one-on-one deep conversations. I enjoy people otherwise, but I feel like I have to work at it. I enjoy arguments unless the other person has no idea what they're talking about, then I feel like I have to shove info down their throat. In general, I like thinking about how things or situations work and why things happen. I like solving things and/or figuring things out, real world or otherwise.

    I have a lot of loyalty to the friends I feel a connection with, but I don't really care about anyone else. A kind of "hate people but love individuals" philosophy. It's hard to make a friendship, but equally hard to break it with me. If someone is a good friend and they do something pretty messed up I'm usually pretty forgiving. I strive for that deep connection, but as anything else I hate when I feel like I'm wasting my time, so i don't make much extra effort (if any) with new people.

    I realize saying "I use Te and like Fi" is kind of a bullshit way of explaining myself, but it's just easier that way.

    ummm.. yeah.. need more?
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-24-2009 at 06:10 AM.
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    I can't trust when you say you identify with a certain type, since you aren't skilled at typing in the first place. Showing commonality with SLI, or avoiding the ESE, these are misleading things to say, even by reading online definitions, you're likely to not know the full implications of them.

    "I recognize that I'm usually more on the introverted side, and feel exhausted by people I don't easily connect with, especially new people." Again, enough with MBTI. I know it seems like a good idea to get as much info as you can, but you're really just dodging the question, since we're speaking in terms of socionics.

    All in all, I'd say you're a Delta (maybe beta we'll see).
    Last edited by 717495; 05-24-2009 at 06:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I can't trust when you say you identify with a certain type, since you aren't skilled at typing in the first place. Showing commonality with SLI, or avoiding the ESE, these are misleading things to say, even by reading online definitions, you're likely to not know the full implications of them.

    "I recognize that I'm usually more on the introverted side, and feel exhausted by people I don't easily connect with, especially new people." Again, enough with MBTI. I know it seems like a good idea to get as much info as you can, but you're really just dodging the question, since we're speaking in terms of socionics.

    All in all, you seem like a Beta.
    I'm not ruling out that I could be wrong, but I feel like I'm typing people pretty well considering how well they resonate with their type as far as my perception goes, but what else can I use?

    That's all i was trying for. I'm not relying on any one of the things I said as far as typing, but a combination of all, and that's why I'm uncertain, because just as with anyone there will be things that don't flow perfectly well with their type.

    Besides, I think it's kind of ridiculous to believe that socionics introverts don't tend to be conventional introverts. I'm sure subtype plays into this as well, but still.
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    When you think of conventional introversion, you look it up int the dictionary. However that version doesn't cut it in socionics. There are rules to follow. Where the root of introversion comes from, the way the brain functions, not just behaviors. Where as MBTI tries to simplify things like you're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i think you're INFp right now.
    I don't think so IMO.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    When you think of conventional introversion, you look it up int the dictionary. However that version doesn't cut it in socionics. There are rules to follow. Where the root of introversion comes from, the way the brain functions, not just behaviors. Where as MBTI tries to simplify things like you're doing.
    I agree. All I'm saying is that a socionics introvert will more likely than not be a conventional introvert, even if the possibility is 55/45 there is a slightly higher probability. All that I was trying to do is give everything that came to mind. I know I still have a lot to learn.
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    If you identify with socionic introversion, with IP temperament, then you are ILI not LIE.

    The example you describe hi-lights the problems that can occur when looking at things from a functional point of view.

    If you must look at yourself with functions, i'd suggest just looking at the ego ones. To decide between Ni base and Te base, remember that our dominant function is our rock and it's what we fall back on in life. So with that in mind you should be able to look at yourself, how you've lived, what you really prefer and what's guided you overall to see what's your base function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    If you identify with socionic introversion, with IP temperament, then you are ILI not LIE.

    The example you describe hi-lights the problems that can occur when looking at things from a functional point of view.

    If you must look at yourself with functions, i'd suggest just looking at the ego ones. To decide between Ni base and Te base, remember that our dominant function is our rock and it's what we fall back on in life. So with that in mind you should be able to look at yourself, how you've lived, what you really prefer and what's guided you overall to see what's your base function.
    Thank you! Someone helpful. I think you're right. It makes a lot more sense that I would be ILI than LIE.

    The question I probably should have asked is, how likely is it that an Ni-LIE (or any extrovert subtyped-introvert for that matter) would be like their mirror? Is it likely that Ni-LIE might seem IP?
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    I think you are LIE-Ni
    INTp

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    No function and quadra analysis are the most useful. Take for instance your POLR. That shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    The question I probably should have asked is, how likely is it that an Ni-LIE (or any extrovert subtyped-introvert for that matter) would be like their mirror? Is it likely that Ni-LIE might seem IP?
    Not that likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    The question I probably should have asked is, how likely is it that an Ni-LIE (or any extrovert subtyped-introvert for that matter) would be like their mirror? Is it likely that Ni-LIE might seem IP?
    It really depends on the subtype theory you subscribe to... which no one's agreed upon yet. But it seems that EIE-Ni/IEI-Fe is a common self-typing fence to sit on, so it might be a similar situation with LIE-Ni/ILI-Te?

    I agree that it's often easier to see other people's types than to know your own. My base is almost invisible to me, except for the fact that I know I'm -seeking. I feel like I use and a lot more. I didn't understand PoLR until I identified myself as an IEI, since I'm pretty good with memorising stuff for quizzes and such which is all I had to go on at the time, but knowing I had a PoLR helped me notice when it arose.

    I identify more with the IP temperament, although efficiency is important().
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. I also find efficiency important - I'm really lazy, and look for the easiest way to do things all the time - yet I'm Te-PoLR. Te-bases seem to me to be inefficient but really hard-working. Whether it's "efficiency" is more a question of whether you look at from the inside or the outside.

    What parts of IP temperament do you identify with, specifically?

    I do feel uncomfortable when I'm expected to show . (e.g. someone is crying) Sometimes I'm able to figure out something to say though.
    Don't we all. I can never think of anything to say though, could you give me some tips?

    I can't stand useless bullshit. I hate being around people I feel like are wasting my time or doing anything that I feel like is a waste of time. I have a hard time expressing anger though, and I tend to just bear things and go with it. I make a lot of long term plans and often have problems going about actually carrying them out. It seems like the only times I really enjoy someone's company is in one-on-one deep conversations. I enjoy people otherwise, but I feel like I have to work at it. I enjoy arguments unless the other person has no idea what they're talking about, then I feel like I have to shove info down their throat. In general, I like thinking about how things or situations work and why things happen. I like solving things and/or figuring things out, real world or otherwise.

    I have a lot of loyalty to the friends I feel a connection with, but I don't really care about anyone else. A kind of "hate people but love individuals" philosophy. It's hard to make a friendship, but equally hard to break it with me. If someone is a good friend and they do something pretty messed up I'm usually pretty forgiving. I strive for that deep connection, but as anything else I hate when I feel like I'm wasting my time, so i don't make much extra effort (if any) with new people.
    Everything you said there is also consistent with my IEI-Ni friend, and most of it I can agree with, so I can't see it as suggesting Gamma NT over all other types.

    I can't stand useless bullshit. I hate being around people I feel like are wasting my time or doing anything that I feel like is a waste of time.
    What sorts of things do you think are wastes of time?

    I make a lot of long term plans and often have problems going about actually carrying them out.
    What exactly is the problem with carrying them out? Are you plagued by doubt as to whether it's a good idea? Or is it because you're caught up in the details of things that seem more pressing?

    I'm sorry if you've answered these questions already elsewhere on the forum. Feel free to refer me to another thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Is it likely that Ni-LIE might seem IP?
    no way.

    subtypes have way less influence on a type.

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    This type thread tells an awful lot about the problems on this forum as re: Socionics typing.

    A lot of ppl here are telling this guy misinformation--"I think you..." "I highly doubt..." and all of that bullshit--based on the VERY LITTLE information he gave out.

    There are no good visuals to go off of as re: this case, as the photos are posed/formal, (except one.) And the info he's given could apply to almost every type.

    I realized he asked for our help...

    There's nothing wrong with saying, "we need more information to make an educated judgment..."

    Isn't it better than typing willy-nilly??

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    This type thread is crazy, and tells an awful lot about the problems on this forum as re: Socionics typing.

    A lot of ppl here are telling this guy misinformation, based on the VERY LITTLE information he gave out.

    There are no good visuals to go off of, as they are posed/formal photos, (except one.) ANd the info given could apply to most every type.

    I realized he asked for our help... There's nothing wrong with saying, "we need more information to make an educated judgment..."

    We shouldn't type willy-nilly.
    Yay, hypocrisy
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Yay, hypocrisy
    I include myself in it.

    I tried too, without adequate info.

    (BTW Allie... you see that this subforum is about Model A, right?? WHy are you typing ppl in it?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    It really depends on the subtype theory you subscribe to... which no one's agreed upon yet. But it seems that EIE-Ni/IEI-Fe is a common self-typing fence to sit on, so it might be a similar situation with LIE-Ni/ILI-Te?

    I agree that it's often easier to see other people's types than to know your own. My base is almost invisible to me, except for the fact that I know I'm -seeking. I feel like I use and a lot more. I didn't understand PoLR until I identified myself as an IEI, since I'm pretty good with memorising stuff for quizzes and such which is all I had to go on at the time, but knowing I had a PoLR helped me notice when it arose.
    Yeah, I'm not certain what my PoLR is. I just know for certain that I'm NT, that I don't value Fe, and that I do value Fi. Emotional expression was something I as extremely bad at as a kid, but as I've gotten older I've adapted to it. I don't care much for anything Si related, and too much emphasis I feel is a waste of time. Too much emphasis on the now is waste if it doesn't benefit me in the future. I wish I could take more initiative in my life, and that's why I value Se, but don't feel like it's the most important thing either. If something needs to be done right now then I'll do it, and if someone is on my ass too much I'll get annoyed, but I'm sure that's the same with anyone. Things related to Fi is something I can't see getting tired of. Conversations with a SO or even a friend about how they "really feel" never get old, and it doesn't have to be about me. It could be how they feel about their SO, friend, etc.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. I also find efficiency important - I'm really lazy, and look for the easiest way to do things all the time - yet I'm Te-PoLR. Te-bases seem to me to be inefficient but really hard-working. Whether it's "efficiency" is more a question of whether you look at from the inside or the outside.

    What parts of IP temperament do you identify with, specifically?
    That's a good point. What I meant by that is that I'm really low energy, kind of go-with-the-flow type, but when something needs to be done I do it. Sorry, that was a bad way of describing it. For example, a project's due date is coming closer and closer. I'll put it off, but I always get it done. I also find that I'm able to focus more when it needs to be done right away, and I end up completing it a lot more efficiently. Sometimes I rationalize to myself, "oh, I'll get it done a lot more easily if I put it off."

    I'm looking at wikisocion.
    "relaxed"
    "finds it easy to spend long periods of time in no activity, or at very low levels of energy"
    "little inclination towards fidgetiness when having to remain inactive for longer periods"

    Of course this is just a majority of the time. Not all the time.


    Don't we all. I can never think of anything to say though, could you give me some tips?

    Everything you said there is also consistent with my IEI-Ni friend, and most of it I can agree with, so I can't see it as suggesting Gamma NT over all other types.
    lol, well that's just one example. Any situation where I'm expected to show emotion I feel kind of awkward. (random example) At christmas, when I'm opening presents I feel like I have to look happy and it kind of stresses me out. (or...) If someone is overly excited about something I can't share heir excitement. I usually notice these moments and feel unable to do anything about it or fake it, which I have gotten decently good at.

    What sorts of things do you think are wastes of time?
    house chores :tongue:, going out of my way to keep contact with people, basically any activity without clear purpose for future gain. The only things I do regularly for enjoyment involve mental workings: video games(preferably strategic or role-playing), research of psychology, anything problem solving. I do let my friends drag me into things I wouldn't normally do, but I always feel like I'm being dragged.

    What exactly is the problem with carrying them out? Are you plagued by doubt as to whether it's a good idea? Or is it because you're caught up in the details of things that seem more pressing?
    laziness. I get caught up with whatever I'm doing at the time. It's hard for me to change direction. For example, I'll want to get some homework done or want to go on a job hunt, but then I'm like "lets check the forum" and/or "I'll do it in 30minutes" and the next thing I know, 2 hours have passed. The "long term" plans are more like this though. It's usually more like something I want a job by X date and I just never actually do anything to fulfill that. I was "certain" I was going to have a job by March after I quit my last job in January. Just never happened lol. I did make some effort, just not enough apparently. I just get a feeling that I'm going to get a job so I don't make any more effort and I just wait it out and I end up with no job. All this might not be type related though lol.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-24-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    IMO, the info in your posts doesn't show weak Fe, nor strong Te, nor Fi-valuing....

    Could you tell a bit more about why you think you value Fi>Fe, why you think you value Te>Ti, and why you think you are an NT? It might make us see you a bit better.

    (PS. I used to think I value Fi and Te also.... And I was pretty certain I was an NT for about 10 years.... Imo, you actually MIGHT seem to value Fe>Fi (you describe being more interested in immediate (one-on-one) situations/connections rather than long-term (distance) relationships/friendships) Not saying you are not a gamma NT, just that I'd like you to answer the questions above to give an opinion.)
    "I support this post."


    I don't know how helpful this is to add, but it's interesting Mimosa brought this up. Throughout most of Azeoroff's (?) posts I was thinking.... "wow, this doesn't really seems like the ILI I know, and I feel like we'd get along pretty well."

    But you also seem to have a pretty good grasp on what socionics is. You're careful, thorough, and pretty open-minded I think, with your approach on what your type is. So, eh-- we'll see.

    Just throwing it out there that I also share this speculation, just to sort of embolden the idea.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    IMO, the info in your posts doesn't show weak Fe, nor strong Te, nor Fi-valuing....

    Could you tell a bit more about why you think you value Fi>Fe, why you think you value Te>Ti, and why you think you are an NT? It might make us see you a bit better.

    (PS. I used to think I value Fi and Te also.... And I was pretty certain I was an NT for about 10 years.... Imo, you actually MIGHT seem to value Fe>Fi (you describe being more interested in immediate (one-on-one) situations/connections rather than long-term (distance) relationships/friendships) Not saying you are not a gamma NT, just that I'd like you to answer the questions above to give an opinion.)
    Not a problem, I don't have any problem with people telling me I'm wrong as long as they explain.

    The only problem I'm having now is that I'm losing sight of what I thought Fe/Fi Te/Ti meant.

    I believe that i don't value Fe because, I'm not prone emotional expression and feel awkward when emotional expression is abundant. When someone makes a gesture of kindness, I feel awkward because I feel like I have to reciprocate. I don't feel bad if someone is being forceful or insulting, unless I feel like they are doing it to purposefully insult me. I take criticism well.

    I value Fi because, I enjoy the sight of someone being happy even if it isn't obvious. I hate when people are insensitive or don't act morally correct when it comes to others. I enjoy a feeling of closeness even when it isn't apparent. I hate when people can't "understand" the reasoning for someone's actions, or when they don't have a sense of understanding.



    Te/Ti is a little more difficult because I value everything logical, and my understanding of the difference isn't as clear cut as Fe/Fi.

    I don't value Ti, because I'm not prone to do things the way they are normally done. I'm not as concerned with an understanding of the whole as much as my point of interest.

    I like the application of logic. I like to see it in action, though not necessary on something concrete. I enjoy the connecting of ideas rather than having the connection presented. I like to figure things out for myself.

    sorry, if someone could clarify the difference I could give more info.


    NT:
    I relate to the NT club. Sensing just doesn't describe me at all. I am often lost in thoughts and can stay in that state for long periods of time. Ethics comes second to logic in all meanings of the words. I'm attracted to abstract ideas, and thoughts of symbolism. I enjoy intellectual pursuits, without need for application.(Philosophy) I often neglect worldly interests for abstract ones. (Internet>real life) To a degree. I always feel like I should do something to pursue my life goals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    I don't know how helpful this is to add, but it's interesting Mimosa brought this up. Throughout most of Azeoroff's (?) posts I was thinking.... "wow, this doesn't really seems like the ILI I know, and I feel like we'd get along pretty well."
    Im pretty close to a couple IEIs and I know an EIE. (but I typed them, so who knows ) All four of us are pretty like minded. We agree on many things, but the IEIs like I said.. one is closed off, and the other I feel like I have to watch what I say sometimes or they'll get self-conscious. The EIE (not quite as sure about his type) I'm not too close to, but he really values my advice on some things we've talked about. The only problem I have with them is that they seem too people focused. It seems like they're always trying to impress others (especially the EIE), which bugs me. I have been known to do the same at times, but I always feel so fake, and so I feel like others are being fake when I see it in them. (laughing at a stupid joke or something) Oh, and I find that we interact much better one-on-one. I read gammas and betas interact much better one-on-one. In groups they contribute to the group while I usually don't, so we're distant, but one-on-one we can talk about ideas and such about whatever.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-24-2009 at 10:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think you are confusing ethics/logics, Fe/Fi and Te/Ti. It makes it very hard to tell what type you are, but so far, I think you are ILE (Fi PoLR) or IEI (Te PoLR). lol. I haven't seen your photos.
    how did you get that?

    If I'm an ILE I'd be in shock. I went though a "am I ILI or ILE ?" phase and it lasted for about an afternoon.

    I'd be kinda shocked at IEI as well. Though not as.

    In all honesty the only types I could see myself as are ILI LIE LII SLI or EII, in that order. I would say IEI, but Fe (at least my current understanding of it) is definitely not part of my ego block.

    edit: well actually ILE isn't impossible either. Ugh I feel like I'm working backwards. Went from thinking I was one of two types, and now I feel like I could be anything. Could someone please explain the difference between Te/Ti Fe/Fi thoroughly? I am going by what I've read from Wikisocion which isn't the most thorough.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-24-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Not a problem, I don't have any problem with people telling me I'm wrong as long as they explain.
    I don't know how type-related this is, but this part sounds exactly like something my Physics teacher would say, who I think is ENTj. Just throwing that out there-- for anyone to pick at and consider. Including you. I don't know how type related that is lol, but she always seemed to have some strange need to establish her morals to the class.. and why she considered certain things rude, and what to avoid if we don't want to make her angry.


    I don't consider myself a solid "socionist", but I'm going to try to assist in your typing through my input,

    So something I sort of noticed in that second quote,

    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Te/Ti is a little more difficult because I value everything logical, and my understanding of the difference isn't as clear cut as Fe/Fi.

    I don't value Ti, because I'm not prone to do things the way they are normally done. I'm not as concerned with an understanding of the whole as much as my point of interest.

    I like the application of logic. I like to see it in action, though not necessary on something concrete. I enjoy the connecting of ideas rather than having the connection presented. I like to figure things out for myself.

    sorry, if someone could clarify the difference I could give more info.


    NT:
    I relate to the NT club. Sensing just doesn't describe me at all. I am often lost in thoughts and can stay in that state for long periods of time. Ethics comes second to logic in all meanings of the words. I'm attracted to abstract ideas, and thoughts of symbolism. I enjoy intellectual pursuits, without need for application.(Philosophy) I often neglect worldly interests for abstract ones. (Internet>real life) To a degree. I always feel like I should do something to pursue my life goals.
    Red part: My understanding on this section is a bit unclear, but I don't think valuing Ti has much (if anything) to do with doing things the way they're normally done. If anything, people who value Ti will throw the typical methods out the door in order to reach a certain goal (such as figure out a puzzle or understand the meaning of something). From my understanding, Te is usually the function which involves relying on already established methods to reaching a certain conclusion. Also I believe it involves the use of outside sources, instead of the logical conclusion met through Ti-- a sort of mental tangent of trying to logically figure something out on one's own, without already proven ideas to follow. This sounds similar to Ni to me as well though.

    PLEASE ANYONE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. I'm also posting this for other's to pick at, so that I may reach a strong and valid understanding of the functions.

    Overall, Azeroffs, you seem to value any sort of logic quite decisively, which may point to some truth in the idea that you are ENTj as well, since their base function is Te.

    Also, I think you appreciate feedback for decision-making, which seems like an extraverted function leading tendency. *shrug*

    Maybe if you were ILI you'd rely on yourself more to figure out your type. But that could be an intuitive thing-- being unsure.

    I hope I did not waste your time.


    PLu
    Last edited by pluie; 05-24-2009 at 11:15 PM.
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    @pluie not at all, thanks for the input.

    yeah, I'm honestly not sure of the difference between Te/Ti. I'm pretty sure Ti tries to connect new methods with pre-existing ones. I figured this would make them more likely to do things the way they are used to it being done.

    Typically I do rely on myself. I narrowed it down as much as my understanding could and only then did I ask for help. (only to become more confused...) But, one can't rely only on themselves anyway. It's a formula for narrow-mindednes.

    I have strong views which don't always reflect my actions, but who isn't the same?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Could someone please explain the difference between Te/Ti Fe/Fi thoroughly? I am going by what I've read from Wikisocion which isn't the most thorough.
    hehehe... this is where we all start fighting

    it's like religion. all based on one idea, but such nit-picking and shit make it hard to find a common ground. before you know it we'll have St. Mark's socionists and the Lutheran socionists or some shit. lol.

    not really "fighting"-- i exaggerate. but this is where disagreement so willfully falls in. the 8 functions are rather blurry, and pretty complex i think. as maybe you've read, they are sort of mental functions/facets of reality.

    been to socionics.us? it's helpful. most people find rick to have a pretty reliable view on the types.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well... I guessed.... And it's a vibe thing. I think what I saw is:
    - You feel way too cautious and polite to be a LIE (no offence, LIEs) and you somehow feel Fe>Fi. (You seem to care about the way you write things and how it comes across/what it feels like for the reader. That seems Fe. Also how you seem to observe the emotions of others could point to Fe.)
    - I think you are intuitive (you talk a lot about being a "thinker" --> sounds intuitive)
    - You are a bit cautious about displaying emotions, that could be typical of an introvert, but also logical extroverted types can be more withdrawn due to weak ethics.
    - For some reason I thought you were a victim, but I can't find the description that made me think you are, so I included ILE in the mix.
    - I think you are irrational (you seem flexible)

    PS. I just saw your photos, and alpha or beta still makes sense.

    Read the vocabulary associated with the different functions. It's not perfect for typing, but it gives a general feel for what functions you use more.
    You are right about the cautiousness with my words, and maybe you're right, but I purposefully do that to be clear and make sure everyone is on the same page. I hate posting back and forth because one misunderstood the other. If it were face to face conversation it would be different. I've had a lot of experience of sensible arguments turning into shout fests because of misunderstandings.(on the internet and IRL) I live with my conflictor(supposedly).. lol

    I'd be shocked if I wasn't intuitive.

    I do relate to irrationality more.

    I've looked at that. I get the gist of what the Ni vocab is trying to say, but really, who talks like that on regular bases? Ni is hard to verbalize. People think somethings off or youre trying too hard to be some spiritual freak if you verbalize it too much. I definitely relate though.
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-24-2009 at 11:42 PM.
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    1) Azeroffs, how would other people describe you. (What kind of words do they usually use when describing you?)

    2) Would you consider yourself:
    - competitive and demanding
    - easygoing and good at adapting?

    3) What kind of job do you have and what kind is your dream job?

    4) Compared to others you are: relaxed, or energetic and always busy.

    edit: I think you've already covered 2 and 4 in this thread, but I'm still curious to your answers of 1 and 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    been to socionics.us? it's helpful. most people find rick to have a pretty reliable view on the types.
    I've looked at it, but it's so incomplete I haven't spent much time on it.
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    1) Azeroffs, how would other people describe you. (What kind of words do they usually use when describing you?)
    distant, smart but absent-minded, can't say much else for sure. I actually had one of them tell me they think I have a problem with paying attention/noticing things.

    edit:actually it really depends on the friends. My main group would say the above, but I'm gradually tiring of them. Others might say funny dry-humored, sarcastic, fun but monotone, weird. I've had one friend ask me why I talk so monotone.

    2) Would you consider yourself:
    - competitive and demanding
    - easygoing and good at adapting

    3) What kind of job do you have and what kind is your dream job?
    currently unemployed. I'm in college. Dream job is something flexible and pays pretty well. I'm currently trying decide between business-finance and academia. Leaning towards finance.

    4) Compared to others you are: relaxed, or energetic and always busy.
    relaxed
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    idk if it's type related, but I've recently noticed that go over things several times in my mind to make sure it is correct and flows well. i was thinking Ti? maybe Ni?
    Last edited by Azeroffs; 05-25-2009 at 12:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    idk if it's type related, but I've recently noticed that go over things several times in my mind to make sure it is correct and flows well. i was thinking Ti? maybe Ni?
    i feel like extroverts do this less.
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    .
    Last edited by Diana; 05-25-2009 at 02:11 AM. Reason: paragraph formatting

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    Omg, that was really helpful. Thank you!

    I'm still kind of stuck though. I'll try explaining.
    wait for it..
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    Sorry for the delay, I needed a break, I was starting to feel mindfucked.

    Ok, so I definitely identify with Fe more than Fi. It's kind of like I stumble upon info relating to Fi, while Fe is something I can switch on, but is usually off. Does that make sense? It's like I'll do something or someone else will do something and then all of sudden I notice someone has been hurt by it or while two people are interacting and all of sudden I notice they are bonding really well. It's like a moment of "huh, that's peculiar" in my mind, though those words aren't actually thought. Fe however is something where I feel like I can turn it on and evaluate what someone is feeling. I usually have to focus in order to do this though unless of course if it's obvious.

    When it comes to Te/Ti. I can relate to both, and it's hard for me to say which I value more. I do however value new information. (This might be learned) I've never been the type to tell someone theyre wrong. I usually always take something at least as a half truth. I'm easily able to see how something can be true depending upon perspective. Because I'm not prone to true or false, I can be seen as someone without clear belief. I can usually adapt to new information quite well, and make it work within an existing system. During an argument I can easily let someone win a point without letting my whole argument topple over. Also, when I go to explain something, it's really unclear. I usually have no idea where to start. I'll just start explaining something interesting and then realize mid-sentence that I need to explain something else first. All of this makes me think I value Te over Ti. Ti in my mind is something solid, foundational, and clear, while Te is a connector. Kinda like Te is a verb and Ti is a noun. Te is something you do, while Ti is something you work with. If this is the case, Te makes a lot more sense for me.

    I'm still not sure if I have clear understanding. Correct me if what I'm saying is completely irrelvant.
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    I have come to a conclusion! (tell me if I'm off)

    Everyone keeps telling me they see Fe in me. (I blame shitty pictures, but whatever). Fe is not in my ego because I know it isn't primary and Te isn't PoLR. I'm like 95% sure I'm an NT type. I doubt Fe is PoLR since it seems to show. Fi PoLR just isn't me. So, LII or LIE. (still kind of feel like ILI is possible).

    umm.. yeah so cutting shit down! LIE ILI LII.

    After reading over the role function again, it says that person makes an effort to show the role at times, but usually tires out. I scream role Fe!! Whenever I'm around people I start off keeping the amtosphere "fun", light and warm, but that just doesn't last even if the actual fun continues. I'd say Fi makes sense in the role function, but I always catch myself before coming off as insensitive. This may need to be elaborated on, but it makes sense in my mind.

    So, yeah basically I'm pretty damn sure of LIE. (still, if you think I'm off, please tell)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    So, yeah basically I'm pretty damn sure of LIE. (still, if you think I'm off, please tell)
    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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