VI if you please? :) HUGE and LONG sorry

[VixenDogFox]

Well, as you might/might not have seen in the Introductions, I'm new here.

I'd love V.I. feedback if anybody's interested, but I'll also include personal info to help out.

I'd like to determine my type and subtype. Recently, both have come into question.

So, first, some things about me (long).

I am a 28 hetero female living in California. I have four brothers and my parents are still together. <--background

As a teen, I spent a lot of time with my INTj older brother as we went to high school together. I first took the MBTI at 16 and got "INTP". Later, I thought I was ENFP. Soon after that, I was told I was "SP" and thought I was ISFP. For at least 8 years I have tested ISFp when I take various socionics tests. Recently, I was told MAYBE I'm ESFj? Hence this post.

I grew up very artistic and always drawing. Then I started playing the piano at 10 and my family called me a "prodigy" but really I just loved to play all the time. Now I play in a band with my boyfriend and am learning other instruments. I still like to draw, but it's more of a hobby and I don't do it as much as I'd like.

I love to cook and garden and am really interested in California native plants and restoration gardening. For a while I was collecting photos of every native flower but then I realized it was taking up too much space on my computer and I could always just buy a published book on the subject.

My ideal life would be to travel anytime I wanted but to home-make for my boyfriend (husband eventually?) and our little kids. I can't wait to play with them, cook with/for them all, sew them cute clothes, quilts, etc. I always want to live on some land so we can garden/farm, have chickens, and maybe get a horse (something I've always wanted).

As for social-life, I have very little. I don't have too many friends, and most my good ones all live hundreds or thousands of miles away and I only see them on visits. In the past I have had "best girl friends" and I really enjoyed this. I hope it happens again -- a girl to confide in and do fun projects with, etc. My past best friends were: INFj, ESTj, ESTp, INFj, ENFp. I did tire of them though, and I wish I could find someone whose friendship would last.

When my boyfriend's friends come to our house, I am a good hostess -- I always make sure they're comfortable and fed and try to chat with them. I can seem either really quiet or really extroverted/talkative in social situations to other people, but deep down I feel exhausted by a lot of people and need lots of space and time alone or just with my boyfriend.

I have been told that with people I don't know well or especially men I am very flirtatious and talkative and a charmer.

I love to go out to dinner or on spontaneous drives or to the river or mountains, stuff like that. I'm always thinking of what would be fun or fun things to do and trying to make it happen, but at the same time I do spend a lot of time resting and relaxing. I basically do things when I feel like and rest the other part of the time.

Work? I hate work. I have had like 16 jobs total in my life and am currently not working (lazy, I know). I have done office work which I am very good at but dislike, and my favorite jobs have been teaching art to kids/or teaching piano. If I have to work I do a good job typically but am impatient for it to be over and done and I can't usually hold down a regular job longer than a few months. Usually I get irritated with my boss eventually and get so mad about it I quit, which is typically foolish because there's usually nothing else/no other job waiting in the wings.

I love to learn. I'm constantly trying to learn how to do things. If I can't do something/something is brought up in conversation I don't know and makes me curious, I look it up online and try to learn it right then. I love to read. Mostly nonfiction, but some good fiction, too. My favorite reading subjects are linguistics and cognitive science, though the theoretics of those things at times become hard for me to focus on. I don't enjoy philosophy for very long.

I am very emotional. I try not to be, but I am very sensitive to people saying mean things to me, or cruelty of any kind, to humans or animals. I have a kind of physical empathy where if I see a creature/person getting hurt I almost FEEL that pain on my body (it's hard to explain).

I get along with everyone really well except my mom (INFj) and we fought a LOT growing up. We have a good relationship now but she can get me impatient and kinda terse which I never am to anyone else.

The type that makes me laugh the most when we hang out is the ESFj and the ENTp (but a lot of people can make me laugh). I become the biggest clown around an INFp, and the quietest around ESFps. INTjs and me have lots of fun doing stuff together. My Fi-ISFj boyfriend and I typically have a great relationship full of lots of stimulating conversations and fun relaxation. Plus we have the exact same goals in life (though mine include more camping/traveling).

I dated an ENTp for a year and thought it was perfect but it didn't work out because he became enamoured with another girl in the end. However, even after we broke up he asked if we could keep living together (I was destroyed by our breakup, and said no and moved away).

If I'm leaving important stuff out, feel free to ask questions...

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Now for photos. I realize I'm posting A TON but that's because I feel like I'm not really easy to V.I. and I want you to get lots of expressions, etc. Forgive me in advance (haha)...





















This last photo is me and an INFp friend of mine.


So, what's my type? What's my subtype? I used to think I knew... but now I'm not so sure.

[Mediator Kam]

I have zero doubt that you are SEI. You sound a lot like me(minus the artistic talent). You also look a lot like Kari Byron from Mythbusters who is also SEI.

I love to learn. I'm constantly trying to learn how to do things. If I can't do something/something is brought up in conversation I don't know and makes me curious, I look it up online and try to learn it right then. I love to read. Mostly nonfiction, but some good fiction, too. My favorite reading subjects are linguistics and cognitive science, though the theoretics of those things at times become hard for me to focus on. I don't enjoy philosophy for very long.

I am very emotional. I try not to be, but I am very sensitive to people saying mean things to me, or cruelty of any kind, to humans or animals. I have a kind of physical empathy where if I see a creature/person getting hurt I almost FEEL that pain on my body (it's hard to explain).

100% me. I have no comment on subtype though.

[Mediator Kam]

Well the reason why I stayed at this forum, the one of 2-3 SEI males(yeah I'm a guy) is that I want to make more and better friends, so I want to know how people's minds work. Also, what is amazing is exactly how children learn a language, and it does not matter how hard the language is, they do it. wow.

I am a huge spanish nerd. I wish I knew more languages so I could talk to more people.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[xerx]

You remind me of Rachael from Blade Runner. I'm tempted to say Si-subtype or middle/no-subtype, though I personally wouldn't put too much faith in other people sub-typing me.

Also, hi.

[Mediator Kam]

Some SEI used to be "gothic emo poetry writers". It may be their proximity to Tornado Alley that stirs their emotions so, but this begs the question, what is your opinion of goths, emos, and poetry?

[Khola aka Bee]

Hurrah!! Another ISFp-Fe girl!! I'm your identical, it'll be great to have you here! ^_^

-Bee xx.

*does happy dance*

[717495]

You VI as an ESI (ISFj) just by the face, and I also don't think there is a strong resemblance between you and Kari Byron. There is some. However VI doesn't say much. Welcome.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Mattie]

If that's true, that would be very interesting... my boyfriend and I would be identity relations (would make sense), but who can give me a good way to actually figure it out?

I've read all the literature online (well: socionics.com, socionics.us, wikisocion.org), but then I hear people saying that the literature is crap. What are the underlying motivations for the ISFj, ESFj and ISFp? I'm trying to avoid asking about behaviors because I've recently been veritably attacked on another forum for thinking behaviors equalled or semi-equalled type correlation.

Your description does makes me think SiFe, by the least an SF type. Your best bet is to read up on the functions (sometimes a follow-up read through from different safe sources brings new perspective) and go from there. Find what you clearly value and clearly don't value. It's really easy to want to type by groupings, like being IP, or SF, or ISFx, but (at least in my personal experience) this clouds my judgment with too many generalizations. I would use them as backup, as well as intertype relations.

I'm not so much of a fan concerning subtypes, but there are a few descriptions around that you can judge for yourself. I don't know if you can really discern subtype from a forum medium, but I'm sure there's others who can argue that.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[ragnar]

So, what's my type?

My first guess is either SEI or ESI.

[717495]

Also if you've typed you and your boyfriend correctly, that you really are an ISFp and he's an ISFj, it would mean you two have the same strengths but opposite values, which doesn't sound right from your point of view.

[xerx]

Sorry, but I'm not familiar with Model A and columns. Can you explain? I know I might sound awfully ignorant here and if I do it's 'cause I am in this respect.

I don't think you're ignorant, lol. Here's the material taken from the wikisocion article on subtypes.

You'll want to read up on model A first. link.

And here's the relevant part of the wiki article on subtypes...

A third socionist, Ekaterina Filatova postulates that there are many other subtypes besides the ones with just one of the Ego functions enhanced. Filatova claims that there can exist whole types as subtypes. For instance, an ILI Critic, who also exhibits qualities of an IEI Lyricist or an LSE Director. In the first instance, the ILI is extremely introverted; with an LSE subtype, the ILI treads the boundary between extroversion and introversion. Thereby, Filatova claims that there are four common subtypes:

• one that has an enhanced leading function
• one that had an enhanced creative function
• one that has an enhanced left vertical pathway of his mental functions
• one that has an enhanced right vertical pathway of his mental functions

Filatova also states that an enhanced leading or creative function simply stimulates the pathway in favor of that function. Thus, an ESE with his leading enhanced would be an extreme ESE (outgoing and emotive), while an ESE with his creative enhanced would have some characteristics of an SEI, being more willing to talk about sensual experiences than an ordinary ESE.

I hear people saying that the literature is crap.

A lot of people have axes to grind.

[717495]

Also, past friend relationships of, you said, ENTp? If you're basing this off MBTI, they could easily be different in socionics.

You do come off just like ESI, but I'll leave the decision making up to you, since there are more opinions to be stated and more research/thinking you're probably willing to do to find out.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[FDG]

No I don't think you're ISFj. Not because I dislike you, but you give off a distinctly different vibe than the ISFjs around here.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[aestrivex]

Okay. I've been sick for a few days (which is why I've been lounging around frequenting personality type forums and being totally lazy and posting way too much). <--background.

But wow! I think I really know my type now. I am not 100% sure, but very close.

Poli suggested ISFj, and at first I didn't think it could be true.

But then I started examining my pictures, and other ones not posted, and comparing to ISFjs. When I came to Bob Dylan, I realized that my facial expressions in every day life are identical to his! And I read that ISFjs typically hold their lips tightly together (I am always catching myself doing this). The thing is that I have been reading the functional descriptions of both types and I can see being either, but then looking at Bob Dylan -- my god, I could be his sister (you'd agree if you knew me in real life, and indeed, I've been told this before). Also, when my boyfriend first heard my music, he said it reminded him of something Bob Dylan would have written.

There is more, and I know I've thought I was SEI for some time, but I can't shake the idea that I might be ISFj now.

A weird truth is that I've always felt like an SEI impostor around other SEIs... I couldn't explain it, but I just did.

Also, I thought I couldn't be j because of a really stupid reason: I tend to not hold down office jobs, professional jobs, and will make hasty decisions at times (dropping classes when too overwhelmed, etc.) but when I think about it, I was raised that those things simply did not matter (I was MOST UNFORTUNATELY raised a Jehovah's Witness and it was that religion's religious authority's opinion during that time that children should not go to college or focus on a career as important. This was drummed into my head for 15-20 years). But I am always keeping my house clean, I'm very hard-working and industrious in that way, and I am a huge perfectionist.

I don't know if this matters, but I also tend to plan a lot of things (I always attributed that to being excited about doing those things and wanting them to come NOW, but who knows) and make lots of lists and help other people organize themselves as well with plans and lists.

I'm also a very good editor and wikisocion says ESIs make great editors.

I realize I'm leaving out a lot of things... but after reading and figuring out all day long, I'm kind of exhausted by the subject.

Still, I'm kind of excited to be this "new" type.

And it explains why my ISFj and I get along SO well...

Relations of Identity? COULD IT BE?!!

....

*sigh*

[717495]

You do give off an ESI vibe in my opinion, but it's along with a few other vibes including SEI. I don't think ESI would be particular to enjoy this type of guessing game, with POLR-Ne and everything. You seem rather welcoming of Ne. Like on my chart!

[1981slater]

ESE subtype

[implied]

think sei works, ese being my next guess.

[Jonathan]

Just a few comments. You will need to live with the fact that this forum will not provide any definitive clarity in terms of type, although it will help you explore your own views and discover more things about type. There is a great deal of diversity of opinion within Socionics...even more so in forums like this; at least in the former USSR where it started, Socionists met regularly and had a certain convergence about what they thought.

Perhaps the best way to get insight in your type, at least your type as you come off to other people, is to go to a Socionics meeting in person that includes some people who really know what they're talking about. But even then, when you come back you may have doubts because it turns out that even though everyone agrees more or less on the basic structure and on the basic elements as defined abstractly, people apply these in different ways, and hence their definitions are different, so that in fact there's more than one model...and people aren't always aware that their definitions are completely different from those of the others they're talking to.

Even if you do settle on a type, sometimes it's a long process. I remember when Joy used to say she was SEI, and then she went through a whole bunch of other types before deciding that she was LIE. That's pretty common around here.

One thing that makes me a little skeptical about SEI for you is the precision of your language, the way you're trying to organize and categorize everything and sort of get to a very precise, clear understanding.

So this may be way out, and I don't really know practically anything about you, but I would consider that you might might actually be LII. I realize that may seem to be a long-shot because your emphasis in these posts is on relationships and not on the sort of theoretical things that LII usually writes about. (EII is another one to consider if you thought you were IEE before.) Anyhow, it's just an impression...just an idea I'll throw out there.

By the way, is your avatar you, or someone else? I really hope you don't mind my saying this, but there is something in the expression on your avatar (at least the one up there as I'm writing this) that is so exactly like portraits of J.S. Bach.



Obviously you don't look like him...that's not what I mean! Just something about the expression on the face at the one moment. But then again maybe your avatar is someone else, because none of the pictures you've posted here give me that impression at all.

[marooned]

Also her art scares me a little...

Kari Byron

Hah. I like her art.