Go ahead and VI me

[717495]

I'll find it interesting. I've looked at interpretations of INTj VI, and I usually can't find them of much similarity to me. I did a VI thread a few months back with different photos and most of everyone had VIed me as ENTp! Various pictures throughout the years, differing from last time, based on these impressions one might conclude irrational feeler, but please take note that most of these photos were for personal satisfaction, in which I believe I was trying to often exude duality back to myself. Still, do not type me, but VI me like a laboratory diagram. Make no implications from these words, within this thread.

[Binky]

Logos clone. Ti-INTj.

[marooned]

The last picture reminds me of Archon.

[717495]

I actually VI as an LII? I can never see why when I look at galleries online.

[1981slater]

VI-wise, I'd say you are some NT, clockwork orange subtype (pic1)

[717495]

VI-wise, I'd say you are some NT, clockwork orange subtype (pic1)

This picture looks much more like an acquaintance of mine, who basically has these features, the face is small like this one and the features closer together.




From what I recall, rational faces are more rounded and irrational faces have more obscurity, I guess you could call it. I've noticed that most of the INTj VIs, the nose looks similar to his, pointed upward somewhat, and straight. My nose looks closer to an INFps (the first 3 images show this the clearest). Also I'm always surprised that feeler noses are usually lower on the face, and thinker noses are higher.

I also wanted to add that you might VI this girl differently, I'm am quite sure she is an ESTp.

[JuJu]

You typed your acquaintance right... She's ESTp... prototypical Ti-ESTp looks.

Going through your photos, I go back and forth between ISTj and INTj.

The eyes usually tell it... Not the physiognomy.

I've yet to see an INTj with that sort of look--which I evaluate by its Fe, and then associate it (via Ni) with others' I've seen and known in the past... You might be a first though.

I have seen ISTjs with a comparable look... (Compare that photo of you with the ESTp smiling to photos of someone like a young Eddie Van Halen... Who is ISTj.)

Photos of a few of your good friends will help put you in the right quadra.

[surrogatestrrrng]

Hi His "acquaintance" does not seem ESTp to me at all, really. ESFj was the initial reaction, but who knows. Ti-sub Alpha NT seems right.


Nice to see you're pulling weight around here, Justin

[Trevor]

Nice hair dude. Regarding VI - I have no idea.

[1981slater]

Seriously speaking, polikujm reminds me of an ISTj I know and it looks the right type.

[JuJu]

Hi His "acquaintance" does not seem ESTp to me at all, really. ESFj was the initial reaction, but who knows. Ti-sub Alpha NT seems right.


Nice to see you're pulling weight around here, Justin

Nick I have some shit to show you when you're here... Socionix/Steve mixed up a few types like crazy... (Female ESFj and female Ti-ESTp is one that they butchered... Recall Mr. Saturn's friend Lucy, whom everyone here typed as ESFj..?? Nope.)

Since you were last here, there's been a giant leap forward.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

That is some point Ef 'em. Although can you make a case for me not being an LII? I'd like to hear it.

Nice to see such cute and harmless SLE under your protection.

Same girl. I can't see how she's SEI. She's very bossy, authoritarian, something which I despise.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[717495]

No, I don't think the ILE VI fits. I honestly think I'm closer to ILI than ILE in face shape, but the closest to LII in VI and personality. I may smile more in pictures like an ILE, but I really don't smile often in real life. Also, I think I have an LII smile.

Types with similar functions in their ego tend to have one or two things in common. Like my LSI friend, who if compared to me, you would see the difference in POLRs, he looks like some ILEs and has one or two SLE features. Often times these are only from one expression that doesn't capture the right essense. Maybe those who see LSI or ILE are looking at a certain expression on my face that I don't normally portray.

I could never make a case for LSI, but ILE is very close. I know for sure that I'm not an ILE though, even if I might have an expression or two like one. I am very very Ti accepting, Ne producing.

[717495]

Isn't this a little contradictory to what you've chosen for your subtype, though (depending on what subtype system you're using though, of course)?

How is it contradictory? I'm closer to alpha NT than any ST. Subtype only determines if you give more attention to your base or your creative.

[717495]

Why are you a Ti subtype in particular?

My Ti function is the most enhanced, and the function I use the most often, which is Ti, does not waver or adapt to new situations.

I disagree. All LIIs have Ti as their primary mode. That's what a Model A LII is anyway.

That's true, but say an LII with subtype Ne would develop Ne more. The placement or roles of functions don't change in relativity, the usage only differs.

[717495]

Then why are you more similar to an ENTp who has Ne as a leading function as opposed to an LSI who has Ti as a leading function?

ENTps and INTjs have the same strengths and they're within the same quadra, they share the same basic/complex modes, and LSI and LII are comparative relations, which means they have each others POLR in their ego. ENTps and INTjs literally access the same functions within their thought process. They're exact mirrors. Ti leading in LSI and LII are of different +/- dichotomies, having a different purpose altogether within the same function. The only big similarities of LSI and LII are their behaviors.

[717495]

Quadra makes a big difference. Since LSI is of a different quadra, even his preference for Ti is different than ENTp and INTj. Se is something I do not have in my ego, so ENTp is more probable. In respect to my subtype, there are similarities there, but as a whole there are more differences.

[717495]

I did think I was an ILI for a few weeks, but even before that I thought I was an LII. I'm fairly certain I am an LII, as far as Ti subtype, there has only been one other subtype to compare it to, and it hasn't been that hard to figure out.

If you want to know something in particular, then ask me a question. The logic behind why LIIs are more similar to ILEs is because they have the same strengths and develop and value the same functions. LSIs and LIIs Ti sub use the same primary function at about equal amount, but the preferences are different, because of values and especially ego. I don't know how you could make a case around this. LSI and LII come off very similarly because of temperament as well primary function use, and these two things revert to what is shown behavior-wise. What is assessed by Ti is similar, but the means is what doesn't make us too similar. Temperament is only superficial.

[717495]

I did not say that superficially we are the same in all aspects, but that was a referrence to temperament. I'm not as strongly affected by my POLR as an Ne subtype would be, I however know the difference between having one in my ego and not having one in my ego. I admit, I usually get along with LSIs of Ti subtype more than I do ILE-Ne subtype (forget about LSI-Se), and has every bit to do with Ti subtype and having a rational IJ temperament. That doesn't mean I'm more in common with them than ILE. I don't only strongly value Ne pursuits, but it is my strength where Se or Si could never be. For me, it's not a matter of slight preference. Ne is highly preferred over Se, because it's where my strengths lie, and what goes best with my Ti.

[surrogatestrrrng]

Nick I have some shit to show you when you're here... Socionix/Steve mixed up a few types like crazy... (Female ESFj and female Ti-ESTp is one that they butchered... Recall Mr. Saturn's friend Lucy, whom everyone here typed as ESFj..?? Nope.)

Since you were last here, there's been a giant leap forward.

Ah, and hopefully the travesty that became of gamma has been rectified. I doubt it. Anyway, feel free to pm me the stuff. I'm not on too much, but I can still find time, and hopefully get my laptop soon.

[JuJu]

sweet... i can't wait to see you (!!)

[717495]

Right about the girl, I could see her bossy, but rather the ExxJ kind than SxE.

But what would make an ESE the bossy type?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

I don't know. Maybe the the assurance they do the right thing, when applicable.

Would this be defined functionally, say rather than of another function?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[07490]

I presume that you're using this kind of subtype system since you've referenced the terms "accepting" and "producing." If you cannot envision any similarities between your behaviour and the behaviour (temperament and other-wise) of an LSI (besides what you call "superficial" similarities), then why do you particularly consider yourself to be a Ti subtype? One of the notions behind the idea of an LII-Ti is that they are less affected by their PoLRs and hence are described (see descriptions elsewhere) as being "less physically awkward" (amongst other things) compared to their Ne subtype counterparts. Thus the idea of a case being made that an LII-Ti "is an LSI" is not as inconceivable as you're making it out to be. Granted, there's still a (slight) preference for Ne rather than Se that makes the individual an LII as opposed to an LSI.

I did not say that superficially we are the same in all aspects, but that was a referrence to temperament. I'm not as strongly affected by my POLR as an Ne subtype would be, I however know the difference between having one in my ego and not having one in my ego. I admit, I usually get along with LSIs of Ti subtype more than I do ILE-Ne subtype (forget about LSI-Se), and has every bit to do with Ti subtype and having a rational IJ temperament. That doesn't mean I'm more in common with them than ILE. I don't only strongly value Ne pursuits, but it is my strength where Se or Si could never be. For me, it's not a matter of slight preference. Ne is highly preferred over Se, because it's where my strengths lie, and what goes best with my Ti.

So it makes a lot of sense that accepting subtypes would be less affected by their Polr, where since you have a producing subtype then it's contradictory to your Polr, according to Model A both say and can't be on at the same time, hence creative and polr function, according to model A, and the psyche of the mind are limited to only able to work these function one at a time. I have an interesting question, which subtypes then should be stronger in their Hidden agenda? I think Only then the producing Subtypes would be stronger in their HA use.

[717495]

Not stronger or weaker, but more or less valued:

Picture two scales between Ethics and Logic, and Intuition and Sensing.

Rational functions are on a scale, and irrational on a separate scale. If ethics become more valued, logic automatically become less valued. If intuition becomes more valued, sensing automatically becomes less valued.

In your EIE case, Ni (producing) subtype adds slightly more value to Intuition and takes away some from Sensing, and it adds slightly more value to Logic and takes away some from Ethics.

Fe (accepting) subtype adds slightly more value to Ethics and takes away some from Logic, and it adds slightly more value to Sensing (HA) and takes away some from Intuition.

So to answer your question, accepting subtypes will value their hidden agenda more than producing subtypes.

I believe strength is type related and not subtype related. Subtypes are value oriented.

Strength however depends on which element is dominant. If Fe is dominant, like the EIE, then ethics is stronger than intuition, and then logic is stronger than sensing, even though they're both weak.

The scale model only works with values, not strength. Strength isn't built on scale.

[07490]

Not stronger or weaker, but more or less valued:

Picture two scales between Ethics and Logic, and Intuition and Sensing.

Rational functions are on a scale, and irrational on a separate scale. If ethics become more valued, logic automatically become less valued. If intuition becomes more valued, sensing automatically becomes less valued.

In your EIE case, Ni (producing) subtype adds slightly more value to Intuition and takes away some from Sensing, and it adds slightly more value to Logic and takes away some from Ethics.

Fe (accepting) subtype adds slightly more value to Ethics and takes away some from Logic, and it adds slightly more value to Sensing (HA) and takes away some from Intuition.

So to answer your question, accepting subtypes will value their hidden agenda more than producing subtypes.

I think you are talking about MBTI and its scale of T/F and N/S, I am going taking this under Model A and the way it structured.

Accepting function/Role Function
Creative function/Point of least resistance
Hidden Agenda/Demonstrative function
Dual Seeking/Ignoring function

the Right and the left, according to Model A cannot be on at the same time in the sync of the mind. So, say you are a producing subtype, then it makes sense that since you put an emphasis on your creative, then your Polr would be off and hence you would have a bigger Polr. but if you have a Accepting function then you would not have this problem as your creative and Polr would not battle against each other as much as if you have a producing subtype. Hence you can even think that producing subtype can have a bigger Hidden Agenda since let just say my Polr would be Si and since EIE producing subtypes of NI will blockade SI then my primary ways of Sensing my environment would be Se. In my experiences I think that if you have a leading function as your subtype, generally you would be more aware of your polr function around you (since you are very aware of your 1st,2nd,3rd,4th function in model A when others around you use it) and since that awareness of it being there and you paying more attention to it, you will also find your hidden agenda more subdue into using it.

[717495]

I'm not implying scales as the MBTI term, rather as a visual aid. Scales don't even work with strengths.

I don't believe that producing subtypes have stronger functions than accepting subtypes, and although HA aids the weakest dichotomy in terms of strengths/values, it doesn't seem reasonable to assume the HA is stronger because of a weak PoLR. Socionics does not affirm to include room for this auxiliary style of theory. Everything I've heard in this forum and read online states that HA is valued more in accepting subtypes than producing subtypes.

[07490]

I'm not implying scales as the MBTI term, rather as a visual aid. Scales don't even work with strengths.

I don't believe that producing subtypes have stronger functions than accepting subtypes,

Which function are stronger here you are stating?

and although HA aids the weakest dichotomy in terms of strengths/values, it doesn't seem reasonable to assume the HA is stronger because of a weak PoLR. Socionics does not affirm to include room for this auxiliary style of theory. Everything I've heard in this forum and read online states that HA is valued more in accepting subtypes than producing subtypes.

ummm, so you are saying that Accepting subtypes value HA more than producing subtypes here, ok.. My explanation on the previous post, I kinda of think differ, maybe you have a direct link that explains this?

[717495]

I think you are talking about MBTI and its scale of T/F and N/S, I am going taking this under Model A and the way it structured.

Accepting function/Role Function
Creative function/Point of least resistance
Hidden Agenda/Demonstrative function
Dual Seeking/Ignoring function

the Right and the left, according to Model A cannot be on at the same time in the sync of the mind. So, say you are a producing subtype, then it makes sense that since you put an emphasis on your creative, then your Polr would be off and hence you would have a bigger Polr.

I wasn't aware that this idea of off and on applied to all matches of this relative positioning. I thought it only applied to leading/role.

but if you have a Accepting function then you would not have this problem as your creative and Polr would not battle against each other as much as if you have a producing subtype.

I wouldn't call it "battle against." The role function helps one understand their leading better. It more so "confirms" the role than tries to beat it. It's like going from internal to external back to internal. They're the same processes of alternate universes. From my experience, one generally needs their role in play as much as possible in equity with their leading, so producing subtypes are to favor because they value it more.

Hence you can even think that producing subtype can have a bigger Hidden Agenda since let just say my Polr would be Si and since EIE producing subtypes of NI will blockade SI then my primary ways of Sensing my environment would be Se. In my experiences I think that if you have a leading function as your subtype, generally you would be more aware of your polr function around you (since you are very aware of your 1st,2nd,3rd,4th function in model A when others around you use it) and since that awareness of it being there and you paying more attention to it, you will also find your hidden agenda more subdue into using it.

I see where you're going with this, and I could see how that could be. I'm just unsure as to its coherency.

[717495]

I figured I'd just update photos as I please. Treat this as some sort of self-explanitory blog.

[Waddlesworth]

Who took the pictures?

I figured I'd just update photos as I please. Treat this as some sort of self-explanitory blog.

[717495]

Sh'was tired.