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Thread: How do you know the difference between other people's and your own feelings?

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    I do know what you mean. I can sense other's feelings too. And sometimes I find myself mirroring them and taking them on as my own.

    I often don't know what I want. Which is why SLEs are like a breath of fresh air because it feels like they always know. And yet it's important not to let other people define you. I think, for me, it's helpful to take a step back and put some emotional space between me and whoever's affecting me at the moment. Take a break and try not to get lost in who they are. But it's tough.

    Reflecting and mirroring comes so naturally to me. I don't know... I mean, I wonder if I've ever known what I want really and truly, apart from others.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Fe types pass their emotions to me and I tend to accept them uncritically (though not unconditionally). But I can kill my emotions with hard logical analysis for as long as I want.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Rick says it's because you're an introvert.

    d/w, I do it too. I really wouldn't fret.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Does anyone else recognize this problem? If so, how do you find out what your true feelings and wishes are?
    Absolutely not. I may not always know the reason why I am feeling something, but it's easy to recognize what I am feeling. I think this may be related to my dislike for those who try to prime me emotionally, or my impatience with those who expect me to entertain them.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    I second Diana's advice.

    Just ignore what everybody else is saying/doing. Spend some time alone somewhere where it's quiet. Don't listen to the stimulation of media or other people. Just meditate, focus on your breathing- and see what comes up. It might scare you! You could have repressed rage or anger....but don't judge it, just allow yourself to feel it so you can kinda move on.

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    But I can kill my emotions with hard logical analysis for as long as I want.
    That implies emotions are contrasted with logic and that's not true. There is always a logical, realistic reason why we feel the way we feel no matter what it is.

    I sense most of you on this forum are in an arrogant 'you can't hurt me' stage right now, which means that in order to protect yourself from feeling anything negative you also have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I sense most of you on this forum are in an arrogant 'you can't hurt me' stage right now, which means that in order to protect yourself from feeling anything negative you also have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
    I can definitely be hurt... but I realize that it's my hurt and not something someone has tried to project on me.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    This might sound stupid, but I really struggle with knowing if the feelings I feel are really mine or if they are just other people's feelings.... For example, I have even experienced to not know if I'm madly in love with a guy, or if I just felt him being madly in love with me. :frown:
    I usually have only rudimentary understanding what other people are feeling. I mean I can tell the basic emotions, probably other people can tell other peoples emotions better, but I don't know what would be like. Other peoples these type of emotions don't usually affect me at all. Except maybe based on my personal judgement of what I think of displaying that emotion. For example someone is too happy and excited, it might repulse me. Someone posts hearts here, it disgusts me etc. SeFi's might be the only exception, in that I start feeling what they are feeling. So basically it's very easy for me to tell other peoples these type of emotions from mine. I just don't pay any attention to mine, I don't think they are important at all. So maybe just try to eradicate one by one what other people are feeling, and what's left is what you are feeling, maybe it will katharsis. Or stop caring what other people feel.

    When it comes to deeper emotions, like somones sentiments about someone else. Like if someone hates or likes someone else, that I can tell that somewhat well. But when it comes to myself. I can only tell that it falls under these 4 categories, they: dislike me, don't care about me (most people I don't know well), are lukewarm towards me (almost everyone I've had longer interaction with IRL), like me (but I can't tell how much at all). I'm likely to get the category wrong, but only in the direction that I think they like me less than what they actually are feeling. In this type of emotions, I let other people totally control what I feel about them. And I have no idea how to change this type of emotions on other people, it seems totally random to me.

    I think I'm better at understanding peoples motivations however, if they seem to make sense. I do this by judging their actions.
    Last edited by Warlord; 05-21-2009 at 02:22 AM. Reason: forgot the advice
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    I can totally feel what someone else feels/understand it, but I see clear lines between their feelings and mine. It's really rare that I feel the same way someone else does -- I mean, we might both be "happy" but I can see shades of difference in it and how we're reacting to it based on who they are vs. who I am.

    I might react emotionally to what they feel, but it's still my own emotion/reaction and not theirs.

    I would be really freaked out if I couldn't tell the difference because it'd feel like other people could decide my emotions for me...that idea scares me.

    It's an interesting topic though...never thought that existed.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    I've had thoughts of being an "empath," but the most rational explanation is that I'm so used to paying attention to people and willing enough to empathize with them, I feel like I'm feeling their emotions. I have never felt confusion with what are my emotions and other's, or what is brought on by others. I also typically know why I feel certain things and such, so I don't have "stray" emotions, or feelings that I can't put words to. If I had to choose which superpower I was closest to, it'd be telepathy rather than empathy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    This might sound stupid,
    Not stupid. Interesting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    If so, how do you find out what your true feelings and wishes are?
    I have no need really to know my "true feelings". Such projects are just distractions from what I want/need to do. And my wishes are simple, easy to figure out.

    This may sound harsh to you, but that's the way it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    but I really struggle with knowing if the feelings I feel are really mine or if they are just other people's feelings
    I can relate to this theoretically, but not really "understand" it in a meaningful way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    seem totally deranged
    You came across to me as coherently emotional, not "deranged".
    Greetings, ragnar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    This might sound stupid, but I really struggle with knowing if the feelings I feel are really mine or if they are just other people's feelings....
    My guess is that this is rooted in the all mighty "unsure".
    I'm unsure about a lot of things. I think this is one of my greatest blessings and one of my greatest curses, all in one.

    Just pay attention and enjoy the ride.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I enjoy, but at times others demand I am more active in my choices, and that's when I feel stressed about this...

    Hmmm... unsure. Yes. I am unsure.
    I guess we might be more affected by choice paralysis.



    Maybe this is why SLEs look so yummy to us... they do manage to condense the choice field to something very useful.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    This is interesting, if not for one reason alone: while those strong in Fe might actually struggle to decide whose feelings the feelings they can feel belong to, those weak in Fe would know exactly whose feelings they were feeling: their own. I think this is because with an awareness comes all the rest of the shit that goes with whatever it is the aware person is aware about (sounds abstract, but I can't really put it in better terms). Let me give an example. An EIE is standing in a crowd rousing them up. Suddenly, they become confused. "Whose feelings are these? Who do they belong to? Are they mine, or are they others', or are they even group feelings?" An LSI is also standing in the crowd. They're thinking, this is amazing! I've never felt so alive! They have an awareness of how they feel, because it's not like them (at least in comparison to the EIE) to be aware of their feelings to the extent that they are, due to weak Fe (being awakened by the EIE). Essentially, the less used to something you are, the more you feel it when it does hit you. The more used to something you are, the more baffled you become as you explore your depths further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The more used to something you are, the more baffled you become as you explore your depths further.
    I guess this is why when you use your ego functions you feel like bringing little service, while your dual is like WOW, just WOW.

    This reminds me (I don't know why) a story about the Master:
    On his deathbed the Master said: "All I did was sit on the riverbank handing out river water. After I'm gone, I trust you will notice the river."
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    I can experience choice paralysis even when there isn't some scenario like a grocery store or a doctor's office presenting external choices (though I experience it in those scenarios as well). At work, for instance, the two things I've noticed stall me are when I'm thinking about which decision to make at the point I know one needs to be made (this doesn't encompass all decision making, but more decision making about things I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge about and am dreading asking certain people because I dread interacting with them) and secondly, carrying out the course of action that I have decided is best once I've made a decision... I seem to dread that as well and then begin procrastinating. It's a mix of dread, lack of energy, and lack of motivation all rolled into one... and when it's in my mind, sometimes I consider it "already done" in this strange way... sometimes, for instance, I'll confuse the memory of doing something with the memory of my intention to do it... because within the memory of intention are the same visual images that would be there in the memory of action, because when I intended to do whatever it was I imagined myself doing it.

    As for my feelings, I don't feel confused between my feelings and others' feelings. If I'm surrounded by too much stimuli and feel it's pulling my feelings everywhere, I usually feel overwhelmed and withdraw so I can be alone and get back to my actual feelings. Sometimes I'm confused about how I personally feel about something, and I certainly get confused about what I want (not knowing what I want) but it's not because of other people (when it comes to feelings at least)... these are simply internal confusions within myself. I usually see a divide between myself and others that I don't cross unless I know them really well. But even then I can easily recognize the difference between my feelings and theirs. I also tend to be skeptical that I really can know what someone else is feeling because I probably think of their emotional experience as unique to them and tend to see it as imposing or something for me to presume to know what they feel (as I believe only they can truly know their own experience and that I would be somewhat degrading the potency and unique significance of their experience to say that I know exactly what it is). I generally have felt that way sometimes when people have presumed to know what I'm feeling, when I can see from their behaviors regarding me that they obviously don't know what I'm feeling. I do think that a certain deep connection can be reached between two people who deeply know one another, where there could be shared feelings... but even then I don't really feel afraid that I wouldn't know my own feelings anymore. I can feel confusion between my wants and those of other people though, and it's easy for me to jump on someone else's train when they have important goals because I'm so confused about my own goals and wants and desires sometimes. And that has been a problem for me in the past, which then led to a great deal of self-analysis that I don't think led anywhere about why it happened.

    I've noticed that my ESE mom (yay, I've mentioned her again) seems to confuse her emotions with those of others, but she doesn't seem to ever suspect this is happening when it's happening. She can pick up on feelings around her and convey them as her own. She has very strong and fluctuating emotions that are highly susceptible to whatever is going on around her... Her feelings are in the external realm, and they're all out in the open all the time... and because they're 'out there' it seems that everything else that is 'out there' can affect them and move them... My feelings though are something I see as inside me, separate from what is out there. Part of them probably do get transmitted out there and they can be affected there, but I often perceive a great wall between my emotions and everyone else's. I can sense the emotional atmosphere when I pay attention though, and sometimes it's vague background noise... At times when I need to know what it is I tend to pay attention to it more because something is unfolding and I feel I need to know what that is. Also I think that sometimes "emotional soaking" can occur. For instance, growing up my dad was always heavily depressed and it was so strong I could feel it everywhere around him... and sometimes I wonder if over time it soaked into me... My mom for instance tries to distance herself from negativity and will not hold certain conversations even because she "doesn't need that negativity in her life." This would provide a strong defense against 'emotional soaking' though. Perhaps although she doesn't seem to realize sometimes that she's conveying strong feelings that weren't her own, but now have sort of become her own after she picked them up, she does (obviously) realize how much being around other feelings can influence her own frame of mind.

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    Wow, I never have this problem. I decipher my feelings (and often label them), then I observe other people and try to guess how they are feeling based on how I or someone I know well would respond to the same situatoin. (Now that I know socionics, I try to compare people to someone of the same type to decipher their feelings.)

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    These threads are interesting, again i cant really quite imagine what you are describing, so clearly it doesn't happen to me that often. When i look at someone i can typically tell what type of state they are in (anxious, sad, happy, mellow, tiny bit sad, moderately confident), i think i can see most of those shades. When someone cries and gets upset in front of me i kind of go numb. I make an effort to help but i dont think i really understand how deeply they are feeling it. In fact i would be honest and say i possibly dont even feel that sorry for them, i just want to get them out of it and being happy again.

    I kind of know a tiny bit what you mean by being unsure exactly how much i feel something, i think we all get confused sometimes. My emotions are typically unaffected by other people. If im in a sad mood other people cant really influence that much, its just some internal process i have to go through. For me, emotions are manipulatable, and something that should be monitored and controlled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This is interesting, if not for one reason alone: while those strong in Fe might actually struggle to decide whose feelings the feelings they can feel belong to, those weak in Fe would know exactly whose feelings they were feeling: their own. I think this is because with an awareness comes all the rest of the shit that goes with whatever it is the aware person is aware about (sounds abstract, but I can't really put it in better terms). Let me give an example. An EIE is standing in a crowd rousing them up. Suddenly, they become confused. "Whose feelings are these? Who do they belong to? Are they mine, or are they others', or are they even group feelings?" An LSI is also standing in the crowd. They're thinking, this is amazing! I've never felt so alive! They have an awareness of how they feel, because it's not like them (at least in comparison to the EIE) to be aware of their feelings to the extent that they are, due to weak Fe (being awakened by the EIE). Essentially, the less used to something you are, the more you feel it when it does hit you. The more used to something you are, the more baffled you become as you explore your depths further.
    This is right on... Well-said.

    It's not only IEIs.

    What Mimosa describes has often translated, for me, into people-pleasing... (I had a good conversation w another forum member about this last night... <3 identicals...) That is, I try to make people happy without knowing why the fuck I'm doing it... Then afterward, reflecting on it, I feel like I became an alien for a brief time... I don't even know what I was feeling... It was like I was in the zone, lol

    I don't give as much of a shit about ppl's expectations of me anymore, so I'm people-pleasing less and less... And my life is better for it, thank God.

    Even something as simple as, "how do you feel about this food?" Sometimes I just won't know... Doesn't really bother me much anymore though.

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    Oh interesting topic!

    Great post Ezra !

    Juju, I so relate, I don't know what is going on, but I am so people pleasing all the time, gosh just so insecure, I just want to please people, I have no social confidence lately. It feels like I don't even have a personality, like it's been zapped, I am not having any fun or being any fun and it is killing me LOL. I just want to be my old self!!! (see what I mean, I just did those faces because I didn't want to piss anyone off lol, like expressing emotions is not ok if it annoys anyone).

    Urh, wow, I so relate to this topic. Gosh, sometimes I forget that this happens, but it just happened last week - randomly I felt so massively depressed in a lesson and I meditated on it and everything - with my own feelings this works, and I feel good again but I guess I now know how to tell the difference, because if I am feeling someone else's pain then this doesn't work.

    Hmm. That sounds so confusing, not knowing who's love you are feeling , I wish there was some kind of sign to tell us who's feeling we feel.

    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    I wonder if this sort of thing has anything to do with my fairly high annoyance at people when they ask "How are you?" -_-

    I've seriously made it a frequent thing now to just say, "I probably won't answer if you ask how I am" or "I really don't know." but I almost always smile.

    I'm not sure how purely I relate, because I'm pretty sure I can distinguish my feelings from others'-- I just have trouble deciding on my most dominant emotion. And frankly, I like it that way It's more interesting. For the most part I like the surge of intermingling emotions... I think this happens a lot when I'm with groups of friends, or I'm infatuated.

    But I can see how blurry emotions could be frustrating, especially when you find them blurring with others'...

    The "be alone for a bit w/o influence" idea seems pretty good.

    All though if I were in your situation, I'd probably sort of "test myself", if you know what I mean. I'd put my self in situations where my true emotions would arise inevitably. For example, if I was unsure if I had feelings for someone (like a crush ), or if it was just because they WANT me to feel that-- and I was feeling their love, I would separate myself from them, and wait for the longing... I would stay separate from them as long as possible, probably paying attention mostly to what I feel when with others-- to see if I'd rather be with that person than them.

    *Shrug* Dunno how much I actually helped! ^_^

    Anyway, it's better than being oblivious to others' emotions, right?

    <3
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    No offense to anyone here, but when I can tell that someone is “mirroring” me it makes really uncomfortable. My guard goes up, and I find it difficult to feel at ease around them.

    But in regards to the stuff about taking someone's feelings as your own: I don't have that problem, and now that I think about it, I don't believe I've ever observed someone doing that to me either. Maybe I just don't think of emotions in that way? If someone's upset, it's never caused me to be upset as an effect of it, nor would a depressive atmosphere make me feel depressed just for being in it. And I certainly wouldn't expect my moods to pass on to others, or for anyone to mirror them in any way. I don't know, I feel like my emotions are very personal and very much attached to me, my circumstances (both of the past and present), my thoughts, relationships, vantage point, etc. Unless you are Me, then you can't possibly be feeling exactly what I feel. You don't feel this way because of the same reasons I do, it's just not the same. Sure, you can relate to me. You can see what I'm feeling written on my face if I allow it, and maybe then you can mirror back a generic version of it. But sorry, you still don't feel what I'm feeling. You can't claim that as your own. There is no reason for anyone to sympathize with me to the point of adopting what I feel. Blah. Just the idea of it—again, don't take offense—kind of bothers me.

     
    Sigh, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I am. It's kind of, um, invasive? It sounds harsh, but that's how it feels to me. I don't want someone to attach to me in that way. I don't want someone to act as if they're immersed in my emotions. I don't like people proclaiming to be “empaths” because they can supposedly adopt the feelings of those around them. I mean, whatever, but it comes off as really melodramatic and shallow to me. Like, hello? Do you have any idea where their feelings stem from? Do you have any experience of what it’s like to be staring out at the world with their eyes, with their past, their relationships, their everything strapped to their core? No, you just don’t.

    So don't act as if you do. You can't feel feelings that result from an experience you've never experienced.

    Just like watching an action movie doesn't make you a hero. Or saying that you can perform an operation because you watch a lot of medical shows or something.

    I appreciate when people can relate to my circumstance, understand my sentiments, or can relate to the Whys behind me feeling a certain way; but don’t relate to me by saying you can feel what I feel. It’s just really insensitive to me, for them to not know anything about what I’m going through, yet they can somehow feel my pain too… like, ugh. Fuck off. Please. It just sounds really arrogant and impersonal.


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    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    Because for all you think it's arrogance, for us it's just reality. The way we are, plain and simple. I don't claim to know the motivations behind the feeling of a person I pick up on, I can't know for certain as I'm not the person. But it doesn't make the sensing of it less real.
    How would you know? Honestly, tell me. How the fuck would you know you whether you feel what they're really feeling? Maybe you really feel what they're expressing, but you don't know what they're really feeling. You don't share that with them. “It doesn't make the sensing of it less real.” Ugh, get over yourself.

    You can't know whether it feels real or not unless you've felt the experience that drives it first-hand. You can pretend that “this is what it must feel like” but you don't really know. It's just naive and self-centered to think otherwise.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I can experience choice paralysis even when there isn't some scenario like a grocery store or a doctor's office presenting external choices (though I experience it in those scenarios as well). At work, for instance, the two things I've noticed stall me are when I'm thinking about which decision to make at the point I know one needs to be made (this doesn't encompass all decision making, but more decision making about things I don't feel I have sufficient knowledge about and am dreading asking certain people because I dread interacting with them) and secondly, carrying out the course of action that I have decided is best once I've made a decision... I seem to dread that as well and then begin procrastinating. It's a mix of dread, lack of energy, and lack of motivation all rolled into one... and when it's in my mind, sometimes I consider it "already done" in this strange way... sometimes, for instance, I'll confuse the memory of doing something with the memory of my intention to do it... because within the memory of intention are the same visual images that would be there in the memory of action, because when I intended to do whatever it was I imagined myself doing it.

    As for my feelings, I don't feel confused between my feelings and others' feelings. If I'm surrounded by too much stimuli and feel it's pulling my feelings everywhere, I usually feel overwhelmed and withdraw so I can be alone and get back to my actual feelings. Sometimes I'm confused about how I personally feel about something, and I certainly get confused about what I want (not knowing what I want) but it's not because of other people (when it comes to feelings at least)... these are simply internal confusions within myself. I usually see a divide between myself and others that I don't cross unless I know them really well. But even then I can easily recognize the difference between my feelings and theirs. I also tend to be skeptical that I really can know what someone else is feeling because I probably think of their emotional experience as unique to them and tend to see it as imposing or something for me to presume to know what they feel (as I believe only they can truly know their own experience and that I would be somewhat degrading the potency and unique significance of their experience to say that I know exactly what it is). I generally have felt that way sometimes when people have presumed to know what I'm feeling, when I can see from their behaviors regarding me that they obviously don't know what I'm feeling. I do think that a certain deep connection can be reached between two people who deeply know one another, where there could be shared feelings... but even then I don't really feel afraid that I wouldn't know my own feelings anymore. I can feel confusion between my wants and those of other people though, and it's easy for me to jump on someone else's train when they have important goals because I'm so confused about my own goals and wants and desires sometimes. And that has been a problem for me in the past, which then led to a great deal of self-analysis that I don't think led anywhere about why it happened.

    I've noticed that my ESE mom (yay, I've mentioned her again) seems to confuse her emotions with those of others, but she doesn't seem to ever suspect this is happening when it's happening. She can pick up on feelings around her and convey them as her own. She has very strong and fluctuating emotions that are highly susceptible to whatever is going on around her... Her feelings are in the external realm, and they're all out in the open all the time... and because they're 'out there' it seems that everything else that is 'out there' can affect them and move them... My feelings though are something I see as inside me, separate from what is out there. Part of them probably do get transmitted out there and they can be affected there, but I often perceive a great wall between my emotions and everyone else's. I can sense the emotional atmosphere when I pay attention though, and sometimes it's vague background noise... At times when I need to know what it is I tend to pay attention to it more because something is unfolding and I feel I need to know what that is. Also I think that sometimes "emotional soaking" can occur. For instance, growing up my dad was always heavily depressed and it was so strong I could feel it everywhere around him... and sometimes I wonder if over time it soaked into me... My mom for instance tries to distance herself from negativity and will not hold certain conversations even because she "doesn't need that negativity in her life." This would provide a strong defense against 'emotional soaking' though. Perhaps although she doesn't seem to realize sometimes that she's conveying strong feelings that weren't her own, but now have sort of become her own after she picked them up, she does (obviously) realize how much being around other feelings can influence her own frame of mind.

    I really really like this, this is how Fe essentially work. Maybe as your dual seeking function you weren't able to pick up the Fe, just maybe its some kind of background noise.


    I do have a hard time knowing people's feeling and that of my own, Fi is on ignore for me and while you are perfectly capable of separating your own feelings and the external feeling. please remember that EXE are Constructivists, so what you said about your mom is perfectly understandable to me.

    Constructivists try to get into the right mindset for an activity and it takes time for them to get from one mindset to another. When they are at home, they are mentally prepared for anything that could happen at home and when they are at work, they switch over to work-mentality. They can get overwhelmed by emotions because once they get into an emotional state, they stay in that emotional state for a long time. Constructivists avoid emotional contact with others and they don't think it's necessary to adjust to the conversation emotionally. They use automatic polite responses and customs, like starting with "how are you?" or offering their guests coffee or tea. Practical conversation (talking "business") is easier for them. They like to repeat emotional states - rereading books, watching movies that they have already seen and revisiting places they liked. They avoid movies, situations and people who give them a negative mindset, because they have a difficult time getting rid of that mindset. Constructivists use emotional anchors (carefully chosen music, books, movies) to keep or strengthen their internal emotional state.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    i've seen you end your tangents more than once like that. if you didn't care to argue, why are you wasting your time? i'd say you're technically "full of shit" yourself. you're just pissed, i guess.

    i guess-- not KNOW.

    but who cares-- not you. right?
    Um, what? First off, I'm not pissed. I just mean what I say and it's bound to show. I'm not angry, or irritated. I think you're full of shit, and I can say that perfectly calm, or even with a smile on my face. Got it?

    And you want to tell me how I'm “technically ‘full of shit’”? Because I mean what I say? Because I'm set so firmly in my opinions, that I wouldn't gain anything from arguing about them? Yeah, so I'll make a post. I'll elaborate on what I think. But I won't gain anything from arguing with someone. I don't care about winning, about being “right.”

    Yeah pluie, I'm so full of shit. Tell me one more time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    You're under a mistaken impression that I have to be talking or otherwise specifically interacting with a given person to experience this. That isn't the case--people radiate off more than you realize.
    I wasn't under that impression, thanks. So anyway, you feel a certain way due to being influenced by the “radiations” of those around you? Why are you so confident you're feeling exactly what they feel? You don't know them. You don't know their experiences. You don't even know whether you've felt a feeling similar enough to compare and/or sympathize with them. You know nothing.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Um, what? First off, I'm not pissed. I just mean what I say and it comes out to the extent that I feel it. I'm not angry, or irritated. I think you're full of shit, and I can say that perfectly calm, or even with a smile on my face. Got it?

    And you want to tell me how I'm “technically ‘full of shit’”? Because I mean what I say? Because I'm set so firmly in my opinions, that I wouldn't gain anything from arguing about them? Yeah, so I'll make a post. I'll elaborate on what I think. But I won't gain anything from arguing with someone. I don't care about winning, about being “right.”

    Yeah pluie, I'm so full of shit. Tell me one more time.
    i didn't say you were pissed. thats why i said i guess, not know. i don't know.

    and what do you care anyway, if you're not trying to prove anything? who cares what i think?

    if you were calm, i don't think you would be wasting words to come off angry. unless it was to prove your point. but you have no desire to do that, do you?
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    @allie:the only reason i said you were technically "full of shit" according to what i understood your definition of that phrase to be.

    but it doesn't really matter any more, since i think you took it back, since it doesn't say that anymore.

    that's why i also took everything i said back, until you responded.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    i didn't say you were pissed. thats why i said i guess, not know. i don't know.

    and what do you care anyway, if you're not trying to prove anything? who cares what i think?

    if you were calm, i don't think you would be wasting words to come off angry. unless it was to prove your point. but you have no desire to do that, do you?
    I'm not trying to come off as angry. I'm not angry. You just keep thinking I am, for whatever reason.

    And why am I wasting effort? “Wasting words”? It doesn't take much effort, for me at least, to reply to someone who asks me a question. What, do you preferred to be ignored? Knock off the “why do you care so much” bullshit, already. It's overused and hypocritical.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    @allie:the only reason i said you were technically "full of shit" according to what i understood your definition of that phrase to be.

    but it doesn't really matter any more, since i think you took it back, since it doesn't say that anymore.

    that's why i also took everything i said back, until you responded.
    Uh, what? I didn't take anything back, if I recall correctly.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    forgot to say-- i don't think you're angry. i was referring to your word choice and the energy you seemed to be using to SOUND angry. extra words.


    i don't know if you're angry or not. i guess you're not. which is nice, frankly. i like that you respond like this even though you're not angry.

    like i said, it's quite entertaining. and the honesty-- i love it.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I'm not trying to come off as angry. I'm not angry. You just keep thinking I am, for whatever reason.

    And why am I wasting effort? “Wasting words”? It doesn't take much effort, for me at least, to reply to someone who asks me a question. What, do you preferred to be ignored? Knock off the “why do you care so much” bullshit, already. It's overused and hypocritical.


    Uh, what? I didn't take anything back, if I recall correctly.
    oh- hmm. cuz on this thread some stuff you said was gone, i think.

    just certain words you had, sounded angry to me. not just the idea or point you were trying to say-- there was more emotion to it. yeah, it's easy to respond to a question lol. but so much added shit, that makes you sound angry. but i guess i just don't know you.

    and how is it hypocritical? i never denied not caring about what people say, like you seem to be doing. i never kept arguing and arguing and adding flame in stead of making a point without the flare. (mind you i said "seem".)

    and as for being overused, i honestly don't give a fuck. that's a moot point. i think you can argue better than that. that is, if you're arguing.

    if you're not angry, i'll take this time to say that this is very entertaining

    and i very much don't prefer to be ignored, which you probably figured out. i quite enjoy the responses.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    And you understand so much. I'm confident because I've had experiences of emotions that have no correlation to my current thoughts and feelings seep into me by virtue of where I am at the time or who was around me at the time.

    I'm confident because, one time at the front desk, I wasn't even looking at someone about to be interviewed at my work. Extreme nervousness translated into ME feeling physically ill, because he was projecting so strongly. I noticed it after he was waiting in the lobby and I was paying attention to my computer. No possible visual body language to read, and he was silent. I didn't give a fuck about the guy personally and it made no difference to me if he got the job or not. I was feeling HIS emotion for his situation.

    I'm confident because I've FELT the mindfuck that is feeling the hate of people directed at you, unable to separate out that this is not "yours" but "theirs" and no longer being able to tell where their emotions stop and yours' begin. You have no idea what that's like.

    Whatever. It's pretty clear you can't get past your own mental barriers on the topic, or simply won't. Either way; whatever makes you feel safer walking down the street, I guess.
    mindfuck ftw.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Maybe part of the problem is 'external' vs. 'internal.'

    For instance in my example about my father being depressed and that I could feel it everywhere, what I was feeling was what was 'out there,' what was being emitted. This doesn't mean I'm feeling his feelings. It means I'm feeling something in the atmosphere of which he was the source. To presume to know how terrible he felt in my mind would be undermining the unique significance of his own emotional experience that can truly only be known to him. I was only feeling a glimpse, something emitted, that then went through the filter of my own mind and was translated into something my brain identified as "his depression." In my mind I could feel things that I imagined as how he was feeling, the terrible black hole inside his head, but I didn't ever feel certain that it was how he actually felt because how could I ever be certain of that?

    It's like with my mom when she conveys other feelings as though they are her own... For example if someone was conveying they felt strongly about some subject she might later convey the same conviction about it even though it wasn't ever her conviction. That's not really a feeling, but the point is that what she's picking up is 'out there' not something she drew from inside someone's head necessarily. I mean I generally also find it really invasive when someone decides they know what I'm feeling just because they're picking things up in the atmosphere and interpreting them through their own mental filters.

    Also, even if you don't know where your feelings come from, this doesn't mean that everyone is the same. I generally know where my feelings come from and I think about them a lot. That you don't know where yours come from does suggest you have a very intense awareness of the atmosphere surrounding you to the extent that you can't tell what's coming from out there vs. what's coming from inside at times. But not everyone is like that. And if they aren't that doesn't mean that they just don't know where their feelings are coming from.

  34. #34
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    My feelings are really pretty simple. Sometimes I feel like I need a drink of water, sometimes I feel hungry. Sometimes I can feel irritated by someone. Sometimes I feel I am enjoying myself.

    Understanding how others feel is a sort of guess work thing for me.

    If someone tells me how they feel and they or it's important to me I try to 'fix' it for them. This typically involves removing or changing practical things to make them feel better (ie helping them find a job, seeking councilling if it seems needed (which may include self-councilling) helping them find new friends or fixing up their house for them).

    If I understood others feelings better i'm sure it would help, but like I say, 'feeling' them is mostly guess work for me.

    Sometimes I can work out how a person feels by examining how they typically react to things that have happened in the past, for example, a person says they don't like their weight being commented on, so if someone does says such a thing to them in the future I think to myself, 'maybe it bothers them'. I can then extrapolate this onto other people in similar circumstance (but as they are different it might not bother them, so if need be I try to work it out by looking at the 'data' about them, for instance).

    Sometimes I think..if something bothers me maybe it bothers them.

    I could elaborate further but this seems to be pretty much it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I'm not trying to come off as angry. I'm not angry. You just keep thinking I am, for whatever reason.
    Allie's base functions exemplified throughout this thread: Sensing is extroverted. Thinking is introverted.

    SeTi

    thank you all for coming! you've been great... Next show tomorrow.

    ---

    @ dinki : are you like me in that, when you're hangin out w ppl, you take on the characteristics of those around you?? Sometimes, after I hang out w pppl, I'll realize that I'll have been more 'them' than myself, if that makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Allie's base functions exemplified throughout this thread: Sensing is extroverted. Thinking is introverted.

    SeTi

    thank you all for coming! you've been great... Next show tomorrow.

    ---

    @ dinki : are you like me in that, when you're hangin out w ppl, you take on the characteristics of those around you?? Sometimes, after I hang out w pppl, I'll realize that I'll have been more 'them' than myself, if that makes sense.

    Yeah, I get that =]. It's not exactly like that with me, it's more like I will be everything that I define as socially skilled, and not let go at all, in case someone won't like it, so then I take away every piece of me that may be rejected, which is a pretty obese chunk of myself lol. I do relate to you on it, it's really frustrating and aggravating?
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Another ridiculous topic. Stop arguing about bullshit.
    "extraverted ethics types pay close attention to the way people say things, the way they talk, their facial expressions, their choice of words, their gestures, and all other external manifestations of one's internal emotional state. You may think your happiness or discouragement is well concealed and invisible to those around you, but it is all in plain view to extraverted ethics types, who directly observe your external self-expression and draw conclusions from it about what's happening inside of you, what you are experiencing, how well you fit into the emotional context of the situation, whether you like or dislike what is going on, and what you may feel like doing next, etc. However, if they are absorbed in their own self-expression, they probably won't pay much attention to you."

    Socionics : Extraverted Ethics

    easy enough? This is really simple human nature stuff to me and then someone had to complicate it and make a theory out of it....i joke...somewhat

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    What happened to Baby's post? I didn't get to read it.
    It was good... A Joseph Campbell-esque paean to following one's bliss, which he called "joy." (Not that Joy.)

    Put it back up, Baby... I liked it.

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    Hmm. That sounds so confusing, not knowing who's love you are feeling ,
    Does it really matter? Love doesn't keep track of who owns what. Love is in all, that's why - if it's real love, you will know because you will want to make the world a better place, or you'll just do so naturally - with your partner, or yourself.

    You don't know where the end or beginning ever was. That's what love is. That's what relationship is. That's what God is. You are in the moment, 'lost in each other's eyes' in the thick of the adventure. Do not think of it as a 'middle' place, though - it's a place of true living.

    BLAH sorry I've been reading too many self-help books lately. =p

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