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Thread: Is there "the most gamma alpha" or "the most beta delta" for example?

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    Haikus
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    Default Is there "the most gamma alpha" or "the most beta delta" for example?

    I mean, is that idea even possible? Or are alphas just alphas and a certain type wouldn't have a tendency to act like another quadra. I think it could be quite possible and could happen with a few types, but I can't put my finger on the explanation because all the functions positions are mirrored and there's no reference point. What do you think? Explain why not, or fill out some answers on this form and explain why you think this type is like that:

    Most Beta Alpha:
    Most Gamma Alpha:
    Most Delta Alpha:
    Most Alpha Beta:
    Most Gamma Beta:
    Most Delta Beta:
    Most Alpha Gamma:
    Most Beta Gamma:
    Most Delta Gamma:
    Most Alpha Delta:
    Most Beta Delta:
    Most Gamma Delta:

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    most gamma-->beta: FDG
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I call most Alpha Beta

    FDG is Gamma but he is probably the most Beta Gamma, so we have some crossover, heh.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    o.o, LSE? Interesting...I will think on this.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I actually retract my previous claim; I am the most Delta Beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I actually retract my previous claim; I am the most Delta Beta.
    No, starfall, redbaron, glam-0, and numbers all come before you. And probably others.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    I am the most Alpha Gamma.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Haikus
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    I'm just referring to types. I couldn't give less a fuck about individuals.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    No, starfall, redbaron, glam-0, and numbers all come before you. And probably others.
    Ok numbers I will give you. Redbaron perhaps, but I think thats mostly because shes older. Not glam; she is more alpha. Starfall is basically IEI concentrate.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    You cant always get what you want

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I'm just referring to types. I couldn't give less a fuck about individuals.
    Yeah people resemble more the neighboring quadra that has their dominant function valued.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Yeah people resemble more the neighboring quadra that has their dominant function valued.
    I would say subtype matters more.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I call most Alpha Beta

    FDG is Gamma but he is probably the most Beta Gamma, so we have some crossover, heh.
    So that makes me most Beta Alpha?

    Certified 4w3 XEI-Fe fence-sitter.

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    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Binky is definitely the most alpha gamma.

    UDP is Alpha, period.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that I'm so extremely Ni subtype. I know some ENTjs that are more Ni than me, although atm I'm not sure if there are examples on the forum.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    i agree, because of POLR.
    That's a good point. Although it might depend on if the person is more dominated by their dominant-function and DS or by avoiding their PoLR. Anyway I'm more in the favor of the subtypes resemble their mirror theory, than the other one.

    So for example I would order gammas, from most beta to most delta:

    SeFi-Se, NiTe-Ni
    SeFi-Fi, NiTe-Te, TeNi-Ni, FiSe-Se
    TeNi-Te, FiSe-Fi

    Actually there might be no rule at all to this, so it just depends on the person and situation, what they resemble the most.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    supposing your own assumptions, why not J-subtype IP > P-subtype EJ?
    I evened them on the same level, because of PoLR and because the difference is smaller.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Also, I am the most Alpha Delta.

    Also, I am the ruler of the universe.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    I don't get it. What does POLR have to do with subtype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    though everyone might not agree on the extent, might not your POLR (and the POLR you Dual-seek, in a sense -- also note what is required to keep Conflictors diametrically opposite) sour relationships with other types who have or Dual-seek your base?
    Yes, of course the base function isn't necessarily the most valued. If the creative function is the most valued, it becomes the subtype, not the base. For one's strong tendency for their base wouldn't materialize a strong value for it, just as one's strong tendency for the Id functions wouldn't materialize a strong value for them.

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Also, I am the most Alpha Delta.

    Also, I am the ruler of the universe.
    Nope, Nurgle is like the most Beta Gamma. He's all like, "I'm the eternal decay and sickness of all organic existence so your can suck it. Also, I'm going to go ahead and take massive dumps on your as you now have super AIDS. Nurgle out!"

    Then you die of super AIDS.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    so here we have an alpha describing Ni as 'the eternal decay and bane of all life' or something like that
    INTp

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    ESTj Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Nope, Nurgle is like the most Beta Gamma. He's all like, "I'm the eternal decay and sickness of all organic existence so your can suck it. Also, I'm going to go ahead and take massive dumps on your as you now have super AIDS. Nurgle out!"

    Then you die of super AIDS.
    Guess I'll have to turn to the god of retarded-looking chaos warriors to save myself, then!

    Nurgle is the most delta delta. Period. He's all like "Grumble my little children, come to father Nurgle! I shall see my children grow and multiply to destroy the systems of the body and flourish in the networks of their dead veins. The bloated sacks of flesh shall contain my precious, poxish breed, and all life shall be equal in the vast pool of decay and death, which totally overruns with if you puny mortals haven't caught on yet."

    riously.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    I want to know who is the

    most alpha alpha
    most beta beta
    most gamma gamma
    most delta delta
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I want to know who is the

    most alpha alpha
    most beta beta
    most gamma gamma
    most delta delta
    Should we hold elections?
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I mean, is that idea even possible? Or are alphas just alphas and a certain type wouldn't have a tendency to act like another quadra. I think it could be quite possible and could happen with a few types, but I can't put my finger on the explanation because all the functions positions are mirrored and there's no reference point. What do you think? Explain why not, or fill out some answers on this form and explain why you think this type is like that:

    Most Beta Alpha:
    Most Gamma Alpha:
    Most Delta Alpha:
    Most Alpha Beta:
    Most Gamma Beta:
    Most Delta Beta:
    Most Alpha Gamma:
    Most Beta Gamma:
    Most Delta Gamma:
    Most Alpha Delta:
    Most Beta Delta:
    Most Gamma Delta:
    I'm Delta Delta.
    ISTp
    SLI

    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fear of sleep View Post
    Should we hold elections?
    I nominate Coolanzon for the most alpha alpha but I don't think he'll accept.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    I often feel like a gamma-ish alpha for some reason.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    constant change electric sheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I often feel like a gamma-ish alpha for some reason.
    I agree. I think I'm more of a beta-ish alpha.
    The saddest ESFj

    ...

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Most Beta Alpha: Ti-ILE
    Most Gamma Alpha:
    Most Delta Alpha:
    Most Alpha Beta: Fe-IEI
    Most Gamma Beta:
    Most Delta Beta:
    Most Alpha Gamma:
    Most Beta Gamma:
    Most Delta Gamma: Te-LIE
    Most Alpha Delta: Ne-IEE
    Most Beta Delta: LSE
    Most Gamma Delta: Te-SLI

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    I think I might be pretty delta-ish for a beta, having been raised around deltas. I think this means I have used my super-ego functions a lot.

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    Based on http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml
    I have to say that it can only be degree of fit, not 100% fit to a quadra, except for some people. In reality people are a strange, giant combination of these pairings.
    One has to go past tendency and into inherent valuation to even begin to isolate the final type.

    As far as tendencies go, I think the intertype relations already get at this quite well, as these tend to point to the different attitudes people have about the different IE depending on their own IE.

    The main thing to keep in mind with "the most X of the Y" is that this sort of thing probably happens when a type has to deal with a certain perspective it doesn't like to, and thus replaces one information element involved in that perspective with a preferable one.

    So you could get a ESI who cannot deal with Ne/Ti who adopts a compromise, say given their least favorite here is Ne, they become more willing to entertain the Se/Ti point of view. It is less ethics-oriented, more logic-oriented.
    This could bring about a relatively beta kind of delta.

    This could also happen with a LII who finds the Se point of view unbearable and offsets it naturally with Ne, thus making allowance for the Fi-Ne point of view even if it isn't what they want to really focus on.

    I don't think making a stable characterization will necessarily work though, namely making a stable statement that this type is truly the most beta of the delta's or such.

    A general phenomenon though overall is that I can see with respect to one of the superego functions, seeking relief in a less difficult point of view, as well as with respect to one of the superid functions, being able to appreciate a viewpoint that is slightly different. This latter is the basis of the semi-duality idea for instance.

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    You could perhaps look at the DCNH system for this question actually, but the issue is it's unclear from an official standpoint to what extent you can just strengthen IE and arrive at the respective DCNH subtypes. You might need to strengthen them in specific ways (like not just strengthen Si/Ni for harmonizing, but do so towards aims that seem harmonizing-oriented).

    There's also all the EM type business of tcaud which is unclear how much was derived in conjunction with Gulenko (who cares who derived what, if it adds and makes sense it's fair game).

    I think much as with the original Jungian types, 4 functions being somewhat rankable in order of preference, you can have order of preference among the 4 quadras, but I'm not sure that is determined by your official type - it might just depend on an individual.

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