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Thread: Terrible ESTjs

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    Default Terrible ESTjs

    So normally I really, really like ESTjs. Even if my friends dislike them, I can usually see where they're coming from.

    And then I met this ESTj and I must say, he seemed annoying to me in just about every way. How is this possible? I know there is more than type, but I really, realiy disliked this person.

    For example, I usually like that ESTjs dress kind of professional, but I actually hated this guy's outfit. It was completely bland, boring and looked cheap all at the same time. He also had a boring personality, slouched (which usually ESTjs don't) and said a few offensive things.

    Could he be an ISTj, or is it possible to completely dislike someone of your own quadra? I haven't experienced that before...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    So is it possible to completely dislike someone of your own quadra?
    Yes. What's wrong with you?

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Yes. What's wrong with you?
    sp/sx Fives.

    They're pretty fuckin' serious business.

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    There are many times when I find my own type annoying.

    What makes you say he is ESTj? And is there anything to indicate he may not be ESTj other than you not liking him?
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    Niff and Hoodrat are basically conflictors (Ne LII and Se(?) SEE). That's why they hate each other.

    He probably isn't LSE if you dislike him that much. If he is, I'm sure your dislike would have to be due to some conflicting morality he has. And, just to be perfectly clear, you don't have to like everyone in your quadra.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Niff and Hoodrat are basically conflictors (Ne LII and Se(?) SEE). That's why they hate each other.

    He probably isn't LSE if you dislike him that much. If he is, I'm sure your dislike would have to be due to some conflicting morality he has. And, just to be perfectly clear, you don't have to like everyone in your quadra.
    Tom: OK that makes sense. Usually I can at least relate to ESTjs, even if they aren't the typical "likeable" people, and same thing w/ identicals. Even if I can tell others would find them annoying, I can usually see where they're coming from, but not in this case.

    He told me he was an ESTj, but maybe he didn't know that much about it, and I think a lot of outgoing introverts assume they're extroverts. But I guess it could have been some other conflict I was picking up, that's true.

    Deante: I still think you're an ISTj, because I've never known an ISTp to writes things like "what's wrong with you?" If you react to my posts that way then you're not my dual. And why don't you just ignore my posts if you react badly to them? That's what I do to yours.

    The greeter: I'm basing this all on his saying he was ESTj, and he said efficiency was important to him. It was fine in the beginning when I was upbeat, but then I got tired later on and was quiet and he started acting all defensive and not being nice. Maybe he is ISTj because perhaps he was lacking Fe after I got sleepy. He seemed to take it personally that I wasn't as talkative, and usually ESTjs get more talkative if I get quiet.

    Gulanzon: I'm not sure what you mean by that. Who is a 5?

    Isha: That makes sense, except shouldn't the relations be universally good/bad, if we assume socionics works as a theory?
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    Creepy-male

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    Nah, nothing, jewels.

    I was just noting that DeAnte is a so-last Five. I would think sx/sp by the way he's SUPER LOGIC DEFENDER.

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    Well, he was probably typing himself with MBTI anyway. My SLI friend gets ISTJ when she takes those tests. My sister's ILE husband types ENFP - she types ISFJ, despite being an SEI. I think anyone with a shred of self-discipline or who cares about their job gets a 'J' at the end of their typing. I've even gotten ENFJ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Well, he was probably typing himself with MBTI anyway. My SLI friend gets ISTJ when she takes those tests. My sister's ILE husband types ENFP - she types ISFJ, despite being an SEI. I think anyone with a shred of self-discipline or who cares about their job gets a 'J' at the end of their typing. I've even gotten ENFJ.
    so true! I used to get INFJ a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Well, he was probably typing himself with MBTI anyway. My SLI friend gets ISTJ when she takes those tests. My sister's ILE husband types ENFP - she types ISFJ, despite being an SEI. I think anyone with a shred of self-discipline or who cares about their job gets a 'J' at the end of their typing. I've even gotten ENFJ.
    I see what you mean, I think it can also be down to how honestly one answers the questions. In some jobs i've made my irrationality work for me, in others i'm aware i've had to fight it or work round it, but in the past I may have often denied it to myself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    The greeter: I'm basing this all on his saying he was ESTj, and he said efficiency was important to him.
    fwiw, i've found ISTj's have a different idea of efficiency to me. For instance, they typically see efficiency as maintaining the system at all costs, myself (and ESTj's) see efficiency as adapting on quick notice in order to achieve what needs to be done (so from this perspective systems easily become obselete). Although I am sure this is just one example of possibly many!
    That makes sense, except shouldn't the relations be universally good/bad, if we assume socionics works as a theory?
    Yeah good point. Here's a radical idea, if you don't get on with someone then you may as well type them as someone outwith your quadra, because although it may not be right, at least it makes socionics work for you IRL, ha.

    Although seriously, I don't think i've met anyone in my quadra who's repulsed me, even if I don't always agree with what they are doing, I still find it easier to understand where they are coming from.

    Hmm..sorry this guy wasn't up to much, could maybe try a Scotsman like me lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post

    The greeter: I'm basing this all on his saying he was ESTj, and he said efficiency was important to him. It was fine in the beginning when I was upbeat, but then I got tired later on and was quiet and he started acting all defensive and not being nice. Maybe he is ISTj because perhaps he was lacking Fe after I got sleepy. He seemed to take it personally that I wasn't as talkative, and usually ESTjs get more talkative if I get quiet.
    That is quite peculiar. I personally have not had this experience with any Te types where my silence is taken personally. But this happened to me with a few Fe seeking types. For the record, I know an ISTj very well who is ESTJ according to MBTI. That may mean something.

    Edit: He could very well be ESTj but relations wise, it doesn't fit.
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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    He told me he was an ESTj...
    lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    Deante: I still think you're an ISTj, because I've never known an ISTp to writes things like "what's wrong with you?" If you react to my posts that way then you're not my dual.
    w/e.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    Nah, nothing, jewels.

    I was just noting that DeAnte is a so-last Five. I would think sx/sp by the way he's SUPER LOGIC DEFENDER.
    I am not.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    Terrible ESTj...
    You're so not an ENFp...
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    jewels is quite clearly an Fi-ENFp, based on video and a since removed photo. Winterpark is a possible Alpha introvert. Cyclops is without a doubt an Alpha introvert.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    i don't actually see anything wrong with not getting on with someone in your own quadra. people are more than their types, and there are shitty people of every type.
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    jewels, I don't know how many people is in this world, but there is a lot, I am not going to check what the world population is, but I will throw a rough number and say 100 billion, which means there is 25 billion people whose in my Quadra, I don't think I will like all of their style, speech pattern, relate to them, their out looks in life, you name it. with the 25 billion people, I can find a good brunch of the 25 billion Betas that I hate more than other 75 billion of non-Betas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    jewels, I don't know how many people is in this world, but there is a lot, I am not going to check what the world population is, but I will throw a rough number and say 100 billion, which means there is 25 billion people whose in my Quadra, I don't think I will like all of their style, speech pattern, relate to them, their out looks in life, you name it. with the 25 billion people, I can find a good brunch of the 25 billion Betas that I hate more than other 75 billion of non-Betas.
    100 billion? Sweet Jesus, its ~6.5 billion lol.

    And I agree with the opinion.
    Meh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Name View Post
    100 billion? Sweet Jesus, its ~6.5 billion lol.
    can you imagine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    So normally I really, really like ESTjs. Even if my friends dislike them, I can usually see where they're coming from.

    And then I met this ESTj and I must say, he seemed annoying to me in just about every way. How is this possible? I know there is more than type, but I really, realiy disliked this person.

    For example, I usually like that ESTjs dress kind of professional, but I actually hated this guy's outfit. It was completely bland, boring and looked cheap all at the same time. He also had a boring personality, slouched (which usually ESTjs don't) and said a few offensive things.

    Could he be an ISTj, or is it possible to completely dislike someone of your own quadra? I haven't experienced that before...
    This brings up something that I think is a misuse of Socionics, which is that it can be used to determine how people will like/dislike each other based on their type. By the way, I'm not attacking you for this, and this is something that I have definitely done before.

    The understanding that I'm getting up to this point about Socionics is that it is first and foremost a theory concerning informational processing, meaning that at its lowest level it does not predict the attraction between people... At least this would make sense to me, considering that this type of theory is based on initial observations and testimonials of people's "ways," which then led to finding some sort of relationship in-between (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). That being said, I believe that the quadras are made up of people with similarities and mutual understanding in their ways of handling information cognitively, and consequently there is good probability for these people to "like" each other, in that they enjoy each other's presence/company and can find mental relief. Another possibility is that while they can understand each other's ways, they don't enjoy each other based on other factors outside of Socionics.

    I believe that many articles and people, while being well-intentioned, try to push the inherent limits of Socionics to become a theory that can explain and predict emotional response between people, and even someone's perfect partner (aka duality), which is bound to encounter serious problems eventually in trying to making the theory hold up. I believe that this type of understanding makes people who are Fi egos susceptible to an inappropriate application of Socionics, considering how they (we) make sense of things by how it makes us feel, essentially categorizing and isolating the feelings incited by things rather than through sensory perception (if this makes sense). Essentially what I mean is that the things that will be standing out in this type of Socionics is what the other types should make us feel rather than really understanding the way they function cognitively... It's for this reason that Fi egos require an explanation of a theory that is void of emotionality and subjectivity, regardless of how unenjoyable it might be, in order to actually understand what's going on, and then based on the unadulterated facts (definitely not subjective conclusions) we may intuitively find an understanding. Socionics articles written in this manner are hard to come by.

    I know that I'm not specifically addressing what you're talking about jewels, but I just felt it was appropriate for me to say the above. To answer your question, I would say that it's possible for people in the same quadra to dislike each other, because it is a matter outside of what Socionics can truly handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i don't actually see anything wrong with not getting on with someone in your own quadra. people are more than their types, and there are shitty people of every type.
    I don't see anything wrong with not getting along with someone in your own quadra either. But why not see if the issue can be resolved within the theory before immediately calling it an exception? --After all, we are working with very little information here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with not getting along with someone in your own quadra either.
    There are plenty of ESTj's that i dont like that much. One is a girl who used to work at my work. She was really hyper excitable and talked way too loud in public. She used to talk about how she ordered people around at work and how people were scared of her. I actually told her to her face that i wasn't scared of her but that she was a bitch to me at work lol. She would report any problems directly to her superiors and it didn't help her make many friends. She also has a facebook profile for her cat and makes constant lame/unfunny jokes about it. I do think she lost it a bit because her marriage failed and she seemed to get a lot worse after that.

    ESTj's guys can actually be very judgemental of me. They will have a go at me for phasing out or not thinking something through / doing something stupid quite a lot and i dont like it at all. They can also be very argumentative wanting to prove you wrong. They have that kind of blunt unemotive communication style which makes me wonder why im hanging around them. One made fun of me in front of all his friends and i barely ever spoke to him again after that. He came and sat down next to me at work one day and i ignored him. I basically do not take shit from anyone at all.

    Still though my ESTj friend is closer to me than anyone else. He knows me really well and knows how sensitive i am so he has learnt to deal with me well lol. Since hes pretty kind to me we get on very very well. He is one of the lucky ones i reckon
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with not getting along with someone in your own quadra either. But why not see if the issue can be resolved within the theory before immediately calling it an exception? --After all, we are working with very little information here.

    right, so why not just ask jewels for more information on the guy before attributing it to a theory? you seem to have completely misunderstood me. anyhow, i haven't seen much pointing to him being ISTj or ESTj at this point. i was only pointing out that we DO have cases here where people even marry their conflictor and get on quite well for a long time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    right, so why not just ask jewels for more information on the guy before attributing it to a theory?
    But I did. I asked her why she thought he was ESTj and what makes her think that he may not be ESTj. Her answer was that he said he was ESTj. Which still isn't much information.

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    you seem to have completely misunderstood me. anyhow, i haven't seen much pointing to him being ISTj or ESTj at this point. i was only pointing out that we DO have cases here where people even marry their conflictor and get on quite well for a long time.
    I don't think I misunderstood you but I suppose my response may have seemed that way. I agree with what you're saying but I am bringing up another point that is counter to yours: that there are cases where when you conflict with someone, they may actually be your conflictor.

    For the record, I don't really have a strong opinion on his type either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    jewels is quite clearly an Fi-ENFp, based on video and a since removed photo. Winterpark is a possible Alpha introvert. Cyclops is without a doubt an Alpha introvert.
    Wow dude, your opinions really have like so much more weight when laid out with this great self-confidence and grandiose dignity.
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    There is indeed more than type.

    There's a dual at my work, who's narcistic and mean. I don't like her at all. Actually nobody really likes her, and people also tell her that sometimes. so...


    And concerning ESTJ's... there are 4 ESTJ's at my work.

    The Te (accepting) subtype is a humorless dictator. I hate him.

    The Si (producing) subtypes are fun and enjoyable.

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    upon further reflection, I think he was ISTj and mistyped himself.

    For one thing, I act goofy a lot and usually ENFps, ISFps, ESTjs smile or laugh at me when I get like that. They might make fun of me for it, but usually are pretty positive. He didn't react well to that and sorta looked at me blankly.

    Another thing, it's really rare for me to have a full blown conflict as I usually let things blow over. But we actually got in a verbal "fight" and he really pissed me off. I actually got up and left and he said "bye" or something and I waved at him sarcastically while giving him a bitchy expression (which I can't say I've ever done before). That's gotta be conflict relationship right there. I've never been so bitchy actually.

    Also, looking back on it he didn't seem Si-focused at all. Like, he didn't seem to really notice the drinks and even though we were both starving, I had to suggest we get a snack. Then he tried to get me to pay for it and I bought something for myself later on and he ate half of it, without really asking.

    I actually really hated this person. I think it was a combination of not only an ISTj, but just a generally awful person in general. I usually like and respect ISTjs when I first meet them. They usually seem confident and energetic to me, but he seemed icky in general. Enough bashing. This thread is done...
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    I have an example for you:

    I live at the university campus with a couple of hundred people. I met an older ESTj after a little while and he seemed to take a liking to me as i was a little older than everyone else. In his heyday he was quite a successful businessman which i believe. He ran a courier company and multiple service stations quite successfully. He lived the high life, traveling the world, drinking, women etc. Then one day a few years ago (5 or so) he had a stroke and was paralyzed in half of his body. Currently everything is working except for his left arm below his elbow, it basically doesn't work at all anymore.

    Unfortunately he has an anger problem and has real difficulties getting on with people. No one really likes him much at all. He just blurts out things that are offensive to people. I first noticed a sign of something quite wrong when i was getting my morning cereal and i hear him yelling at the top of his lungs at another man who lives next door (swearing quite perfusely).

    Then at earth hour he was EXTREMELY upset because they had a candlelight dinner and he said that he couldn't come because of the low light. He says he is going to SUE the university for turning off the lights as they cant do that. Then last night at the international dinner which was candlelight again i saw him taking photos of the outside area. He is going to sue them for taking away the tables and chairs for the event (3 hours) because he had no where to eat his dinner. Get this, another ESTj told me last night that he was sitting in a packed lecture auditorium and this guy walks in and takes a photo of it and leaves. He also told me once that he sued a teacher successfully from TAFE for being rude and discriminatory to him. He didn't get much of a payout but she lost her job.

    Anyway i sent him an email last night explaining that i can emphathise with him being upset, but he must be flexible in life. He should take a walk during earth hour, eat in his room or just walk on the grass carefully and enjoy dinner with everyone. I told him as a friend that it is not a good idea to hold so much negativity and its going to do more harm than good. I haven't got an email response from him yet and i cannot predict it. It could include a lot of swearing lol. I doubt he will really take it onboard as he is fairly far gone.

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  29. #29
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    Sometimes you just gotta put up with stuff. I've got an ESTj friend who can be a bit rude to people sometimes, demanding of others, and inflexible at his place of work and those outside his work he doesn't have respect for. But, he is a good and loyal friend to me. Eh, I just don't know enough about the situation you describe, but did you explain on the email why he should behave in a different way? If it's so that everyone likes him, that may not be of importance to him. Just sayin.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 05-25-2009 at 01:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    but did you explain on the email why he should behave in a different way? If it's so that everyone likes him, that may not be of importance to him. Just sayin.
    I didn't explain no. If he is receptive to my email which is probably unlikely i can elaborate on all the things he is doing to contribute to his depression. I personally think that being close to people (at least a few) is important for all human beings. Even the really introverted ones are probably kidding themselves. For one thing (i can think of about 1 million ramifications from the way he is), he has lost me as a friend. He turned me away because i don't really want to deal with someone so petty.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I didn't explain no. If he is receptive to my email which is probably unlikely i can elaborate on all the things he is doing to contribute to his depression. I personally think that being close to people (at least a few) is important for all human beings. Even the really introverted ones are probably kidding themselves. For one thing (i cant think of about 1 million ramifications of the way he is), he has lost me as a friend.
    yeah. I can think of an SEI Si-subtype who is also sp-first and sx-last who truly does not seem to need to be close to anyone. In fact, I think he's almost scared of it. He holds everyone at arm's length, including his own wife. It's kind of sad. But I don't think he minds! in fact, I think he prefers it that way. But he's probably suffering for it in ways he doesn't recognize yet. And maybe he'll wake up one day and realize he needs it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    yeah. I can think of an SEI Si-subtype who is also sp-first and sx-last who truly does not seem to need to be close to anyone. In fact, I think he's almost scared of it. He holds everyone at arm's length, including his own wife. It's kind of sad. But I don't think he minds! in fact, I think he prefers it that way. But he's probably suffering for it in ways he doesn't recognize yet. And maybe he'll wake up one day and realize he needs it.
    Yeah i mean my uncles (two of them) are almost total social hermits. One i think has an anxiety disorder but the other one just seems to not mind living by himself. I think hes an SLI in fact as i love him to death. I just cannot wrap my head around his lifestyle, he to my knowledge has never had a girlfriend and doesn't seem to have any friends. And he seems content like this. Whenever we see him he is lovely. Still, i think that he probably has just adapted to his circumstance and if he did have those friends his quality of life would be much better.
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    I think we may all be forgetting the fact that some people are just sociopaths. Which doesn't mean they're murderers...they can appear to be "normal" and not be...they get good at copying normal behavior, says wiki.

    It makes you wonder how many sociopaths you've met over the years...hmm. I have a feeling I've gone on dates w/ quite a few...

    Psychopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Symptoms
    Common characteristics of those with psychopathy are:
    Grandiose sense of self-worth
    Superficial charm
    Criminal versatility
    Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
    Impulse control problems
    Irresponsibility
    Inability to tolerate boredom
    Pathological narcissism
    Pathological lying
    Shallow affect
    Deceitfulness/manipulativeness
    Aggressive or violent tendencies, repeated physical fights or assaults on others
    Lack of empathy
    Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizes having hurt or mistreated others
    A sense of extreme entitlement
    Lack of or diminished levels of anxiety/nervousness and other emotions
    Promiscuous sexual behavior, sexually deviant lifestyle
    Poor judgment, failure to learn from experience
    Lack of personal insight
    Failure to follow any life plan
    Abuse of drugs including alcohol
    Inability to distinguish right from wrong
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Niff and Hoodrat are basically conflictors (Ne LII and Se(?) SEE). That's why they hate each other.

    He probably isn't LSE if you dislike him that much. If he is, I'm sure your dislike would have to be due to some conflicting morality he has. And, just to be perfectly clear, you don't have to like everyone in your quadra.
    Way too simplistic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    fwiw, i've found ISTj's have a different idea of efficiency to me.
    I also feel that way about them. It's great when their system actually works, ...


    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i don't actually see anything wrong with not getting on with someone in your own quadra. people are more than their types, and there are shitty people of every type.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    yes. a lot of times I've found when typing people that I don't get along with into my quadra, that it's easy for me to understand where they're coming from + they may "strike familiar chords", regardless of whether I agree with them or actually like them or not.
    People from various quadras like me because I treat them well, and people from various quadras don't like me because some things haven't gone well. Some people just like you because you're hot or intelligent or good to them or a good friend to them. I can think of multiple people in each quadra that I don't particularly care for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    This brings up something that I think is a misuse of Socionics, which is that it can be used to determine how people will like/dislike each other based on their type. By the way, I'm not attacking you for this, and this is something that I have definitely done before.
    You're right.

    The understanding that I'm getting up to this point about Socionics is that it is first and foremost a theory concerning informational processing, meaning that at its lowest level it does not predict the attraction between people... At least this would make sense to me, considering that this type of theory is based on initial observations and testimonials of people's "ways," which then led to finding some sort of relationship in-between (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). That being said, I believe that the quadras are made up of people with similarities and mutual understanding in their ways of handling information cognitively, and consequently there is good probability for these people to "like" each other, in that they enjoy each other's presence/company and can find mental relief. Another possibility is that while they can understand each other's ways, they don't enjoy each other based on other factors outside of Socionics.

    I believe that many articles and people, while being well-intentioned, try to push the inherent limits of Socionics to become a theory that can explain and predict emotional response between people, and even someone's perfect partner (aka duality), which is bound to encounter serious problems eventually in trying to making the theory hold up. I believe that this type of understanding makes people who are Fi egos susceptible to an inappropriate application of Socionics, considering how they (we) make sense of things by how it makes us feel, essentially categorizing and isolating the feelings incited by things rather than through sensory perception (if this makes sense). Essentially what I mean is that the things that will be standing out in this type of Socionics is what the other types should make us feel rather than really understanding the way they function cognitively... It's for this reason that Fi egos require an explanation of a theory that is void of emotionality and subjectivity, regardless of how unenjoyable it might be, in order to actually understand what's going on, and then based on the unadulterated facts (definitely not subjective conclusions) we may intuitively find an understanding. Socionics articles written in this manner are hard to come by.

    I know that I'm not specifically addressing what you're talking about jewels, but I just felt it was appropriate for me to say the above. To answer your question, I would say that it's possible for people in the same quadra to dislike each other, because it is a matter outside of what Socionics can truly handle.
    you have understanding.

    This reminds me of something Expat has said and I've quoted him on a few times, something like: how socionics was sort of created by an ENTp who was trying to come up with some way to deal with Fi stuff, so it's a sort of mechanism to deal with "Fi". It might have something to do with some of the manifestations of socionics issues and tendencies in profiles or descriptions over time.


    It's for this reason that Fi egos require an explanation of a theory that is void of emotionality and subjectivity, regardless of how unenjoyable it might be, in order to actually understand what's going on, and then based on the unadulterated facts (definitely not subjective conclusions) we may intuitively find an understanding. Socionics articles written in this manner are hard to come by
    I relate to that very much, I know some others do too.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    ESTj's guys can actually be very judgemental of me. They will have a go at me for phasing out or not thinking something through / doing something stupid quite a lot and i dont like it at all. They can also be very argumentative wanting to prove you wrong. They have that kind of blunt unemotive communication style which makes me wonder why im hanging around them. One made fun of me in front of all his friends and i barely ever spoke to him again after that. He came and sat down next to me at work one day and i ignored him. I basically do not take shit from anyone at all.

    Still though my ESTj friend is closer to me than anyone else. He knows me really well and knows how sensitive i am so he has learnt to deal with me well lol. Since hes pretty kind to me we get on very very well. He is one of the lucky ones i reckon
    Look, if any type is capable of being an asshole, an ESTj is one of them. It's just that way, seriously. I think male XSTx types all have very high capability of simply being a jerk or asshole.

    Sometimes I'm a jerk without even trying to be, and I don't mean to, either. It just happens. And there are times when people don't want to talk to me because of it... I don't like when that happens, but it does happen, it's a reality. People form all quadras, mind you.

    Once an LSE really figures you out and deems you worthy of caring about deeply, then you're likely going to have smoother sailing.... provided you like Te input and Si commentary, I suppose. (That's what happens the closer I get to people, the less unavoidable things become; the more prevalent the ego block and actual functional ordering comes into play).


    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    I have an example for you:

    ...
    Unfortunately he has an anger problem and has real difficulties getting on with people. No one really likes him much at all. He just blurts out things that are offensive to people. I first noticed a sign of something quite wrong when i was getting my morning cereal and i hear him yelling at the top of his lungs at another man who lives next door (swearing quite perfusely).
    ...

    Yeah, see above. It really isn't that hard for an ESTj to be/come a total jerk-asshole. It's not.



    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    jewels, I don't know how many people is in this world, but there is a lot, I am not going to check what the world population is, but I will throw a rough number and say 100 billion, which means there is 25 billion people whose in my Quadra, I don't think I will like all of their style, speech pattern, relate to them, their out looks in life, you name it. with the 25 billion people, I can find a good brunch of the 25 billion Betas that I hate more than other 75 billion of non-Betas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    That was… actually a very good way of putting it.

    (Despite the bad statistics. lol)
    Heh, yes.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    By the way he emailed me back and it wasn't angry. This is what he said:

    "Well my room and the facilities I pay for are MY CASTLE here at xxxx and rather than accepting xxxxx's autocratic, ill considered and thoughtless decisions / actions which individually might be seen as no big deal but combined together, to me, they are an ongoing daily big deal.
    I choose to stand and fight him with the resources I have available to me, which in this circumstance are the LAWS of Australia , much like the Kerrigan's fought using the Legal system .

    I have met with xxxx and his superiors on many occasions in attempting to find solutions rather than litigation. I can advise you that they suggest somehow they think they are above & immune from the Law and if there is to be a change it will be on their terms and timetable. I am dismissed like an annoying insect. I fight them this way now, not just for myself but also for those that come after me. Sadly the rot has been going on so long there is no way in hell they will change unless the Law forces them to and creates new or further precedent for others down the line."


    It was an interestly reply i suppose. I still think hes being somewhat of a dick haha. In fact this "daily battle" that he has i think is more to do with his inflexibility than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Yeah, see above. It really isn't that hard for an ESTj to be/come a total jerk-asshole. It's not.
    And i think its fair enough that they are like this. Quite often i cannot really see faults in ESTj's at all. They are very hard working, highly capable of dealing with almost anything and very quick thinkers. Plus some of them are actually quite good with people too. Fuckers
    Last edited by meatburger; 05-27-2009 at 04:26 AM.
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