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Thread: Depression -- Si vs Ni leading

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    Default Depression -- Si vs. Ni leading

    ok this is what happened: i just posted a thread prior to this one regarding taste in music, because i forgot what i REALLY wanted to ask about.

    and that was depression.

    If you have an SiFe versus and NiFe, would either be likely to disregard their physical health almost completely by taking pills, hanging out with anyone mindlessly, and sort of going numb?, Which would be more likely to have funky sleep patterns, due to insomnia, or just a lack of care for what is going on in their life? (Maybe insomnia is not type related. Therefore anyone is susceptible to it.)

    I have a feeling it would be more likely for an Ni to, simply because even if an Si is depressed, it would be their natural inclination to try to maintain balance within their own physical "world," correct? It would be more difficult for an Ni to be aware of/deal with depression in the physical aspect, resulting in over-sleeping/under-sleeping, not eating, loss of appetite, throwing up blood... side effects of emotional/personal instability.

    Perhaps my interpretation of NiFe and SiFe are not fully honed, but I hope I'm at least close, and that if I AM off, you will bear with me.

    Any clarifications on what I am getting at/trying to ask about needed? I'd be glad to clarify!
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Ok, I have never truly been depressed, but on occasion I have been extremely sad and I guess in a non-clinical term, a depressed mood. I have actually have had cravings for food to make me feel better. Also, I have slept off my melancholy moods.

    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    +1 to sleeping it off.

    I know another sp Nine (SLI, though) escapes into time-consuming distractions like me, which can harm our sleep patterns.

    Also in my case, reduced appetite.

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Well I agree with reduced appetite, because you are looking for something to take the pain away, and how else by pleasuring oneself in various ways? So food and other pleasurefull things are in order.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    So food and other pleasurefull things are in order.

    hmhm ^_^
    that last part made me chuckle
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Hmm.

    But I generally find I can't eat as much when I'm down in the dumps. I guess my pleasurable distraction is chill music and videogames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akra View Post
    The couple times I've had a true depressive episode (not just the everyday low-grade depression my former therapist said I likely just have daily in my life) I've gone numb. Really numb--I'll retreat into my mind even more than I usually do. Yet it's not always an emotional numbing, or doesn't stay like that. Sometimes it'll be less numbing, more "deadening"...if that makes sense. Like it's not that emotion's gone...it's just that my entire world's lost color and the only thing that remains is the sadness coming out in incontrollable crying fits. If the depression's linked with a shock though, I'm more likely to have numbed emotions at the onset. They always come back, though...

    I'll forget to take medications I'm supposed to (it was a real effort at first--before it was habit--to remember to take my Celexa during the long term major clinical depressive episode I had.) I've lost my appetite, and won't want to eat much of anything. If I do crave anything, it's always pure crap (like McDonald's) but at that point I really won't give a damn. It could be ice chips and if I actually felt desire for it I'd go for it since every other taste desire wouldn't be there.

    I get insomnia like whoa during depressive episodes. And then I'll nap in random times to make up for it, which probably never helps my sleep cycle. But I won't care--I'll just want to sleep to give me a reprise from what's upsetting me.

    My ability to communicate externally goes to the toilet, too. I won't be able to smoothly form sentences when talking to people verbally. Written communication doesn't suffer as much, though I might have worse grammar/spelling and typing errors than usual. I lose my train of thought more often in a depressive episode, but I don't think that's necessarily directly due to the depression. It's probably more linked to the sleep deprivation, since I can get like this on nights I've had insomnia for whatever reason. (i.e. stress)
    thank you for your input. i appreciate it.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    The depression: creative
    The method of coping: or base



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    The depression: creative
    The method of coping: or base
    therefore...what?

    when i try to think in my mind how exactly these two methods could be made distinct, my thought process is similar to that of trudging through mud.

    please assist, oh wonderful most likely semi-dual? (gay over-exaggerated yet appreciative smile irl)






    EDIT to clarify... what could i look for during interaction with a person who is depressed, in order to distinguish what their leading function is? (Ni or Si)
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    therefore...what?

    when i try to think in my mind how exactly these two methods could be made distinct, my thought process is similar to that of trudging through mud.

    please assist, oh wonderful most likely semi-dual? (gay over-exaggerated yet appreciative smile irl)
    I derived that from the previous posts - the SEI seemed to be seeking escape from the depression through physical pleasures, while the IEI coped by retreating into hir mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    EDIT to clarify... what could i look for during interaction with a person who is depressed, in order to distinguish what their leading function is? (Ni or Si)
    During interaction, you may not see anything; interaction will probably bring to the forefront. But if you listen to tales of past behavior, or watch from a distance, you're likely to see the SEI going to food, baths, etc. - pleasant physical sensations - to try to compensate for the depression. On the other hand, the IEI will retreat into hir mind - perhaps resting and waiting out the depression, perhaps thinking happy thoughts to compensate, perhaps simply wandering far away from the depressing present to somewhere less painful...

    The IEI will escape from the present, whereas the SEI will take measures to make it endurable.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I derived that from the previous posts - the SEI seemed to be seeking escape from the depression through physical pleasures, while the IEI coped by retreating into hir mind.



    During interaction, you may not see anything; interaction will probably bring to the forefront. But if you listen to tales of past behavior, or watch from a distance, you're likely to see the SEI going to food, baths, etc. - pleasant physical sensations - to try to compensate for the depression. On the other hand, the IEI will retreat into hir mind - perhaps resting and waiting out the depression, perhaps thinking happy thoughts to compensate, perhaps simply wandering far away from the depressing present to somewhere less painful...

    The IEI will escape from the present, whereas the SEI will take measures to make it endurable.
    ah-- i was afraid of that. i was hoping for a loophole. *sigh*

    loophole in this context:
    evidence of their leading function through interaction without having to really get to know the person, in depth and over time.

    *double sigh*

    thank you for your time.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    K so this thread makes me a LOT happier about my dual. I'm always bothered when people get depressed, but SEI solutions are so superior.

    Sleeping a lot, eating differently, seeking sensation distractions - all totally superior to being all withdrawn and non talky. I've had this problem with IEIs before, it was frustrating to no end.

    If your problems are visible to me, I can try to fix them. If they're withdrawn and internal I just think "omg why aren't you talking, you must hate me ".
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    Si says:

    I feel the effects meds have on me way too keenly. The massive shift is unpleasant, so I avoid even simple things like paracetamol. (Actually in that case it's wanting to not get rebound headaches, so it's different.)

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    I get depressed about the future. When I'm depressed, I lose my appetite. I deal with it by accomplishing something with my hands.

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    The SEIs I know tend to deal with depression/frustration/whatever by distracting themselves. Crossword puzzles, newspaper, tv, food, movies, music, keeping occupied somehow but maybe more on the surface. IEIs I know fall into their heads. (all of which has already been said in this thread!) I sometimes eat more, sometimes forget to eat, sometimes sleep more, sometimes sleep less due to thinking extensively. It really just depends. But I think both types largely withdraw from relationships when depressed. Introverts (maybe in general) need to let things shake down on the inside before we can venture out into the public again, emotionally.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Introverts (maybe in general) need to let things shake down on the inside before we can venture out into the public again, emotionally.
    So does Ni ego's too. The only Ni types that I think does not need to withdraw is ENTj, and a lot of them have enneagram 7 as their E-type which explains why. I personally need to withdraw before I am able to center myself and Venture back in public.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think any type will withdraw if seriously depressed, but since Ni is able to see the unconscious, Ni-egos will notice what is going on (the depression) a lot sooner and a lot easier than most other types. In other words, I think it's logical if Ni egos withdraw more than other types, so Ni-leading more than other introverts, Ni-creatives more than other extroverts. At least in a starting phase of a depression.

    SLEs also withdraw if they are depressed. Not totally, like IEIs do, as they will typically force themselves to work out and meet with friends still, but relatively - compared with normal days - they end up withdrawing just as much. I still think the function they end up using the most, is Se, only they use it "on themselves".

    The same way, I suspect that ENFjs end up using mostly Fe if depressed? (Of course all functions are still there, but they fade. The leading function will fade too, but will fade last, I think.)
    Very interesting, I would Prefer NOT to socialize if I am depressed, unless it is with people I can truly feel that can help me with my problems, I mean knowing who you can talk to about what is very relevant here, but I do prefer to explain my problem more than not as long as I, deep inside know that the listener actually wants to listen and feel a little bit more engaged in the conversation. I have seen ESE and other Extrovert type just ranting and venting their frustration out without the listener actually listening to them. And for them I think it is a matter of not getting it resolved but to let it vent out in a very natural way. I will hesitate to use "attention seeking" for their part to describe their vents, In ESE's case, I think some of them are uncontrollable feelings.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    I get depressed about the future. When I'm depressed, I lose my appetite. I deal with it by accomplishing something with my hands.
    When you're depressed, you lose your . You deal with it using .

    That fits Mimosa's view nicely...

    I'd say that my depression leads into the -only nihilism - the central problem of my depression always seems to be that I can't derive all truth from logic alone (without external data), though I doubt that's ever what sparks it in the first place. I think I'm being loose with the word "depression," though... I'm hesitant to view a non-Fe-ego depression as "depression."



    LII-Ne

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    - Blair Houghton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I would expect an EXE to end up using mostly Fe, but also mostly "on themselves". They will still "feel the ambient" and be in tune with their surroundings, at least to a certain degree, but they'll not try to manipulate it as they usually do. Where they normally will make sure "everybody" is totally "in" what they are doing, they might end up making sure THEY are totally "in" it - that is "in the depression". Still, Fe will be the function they use to understand the world.
    just have to say-- i really love this post, Mimosa!
    very... very lol, insightful, i guess? idk. it's just... well-thought out i suppose. it's just awesome. yeah. ok. anyway.


    i have a question about that particular ^ section i quoted. well not really a question per say-- just a wish for elaboration and/or clarification? specifically the part in bold. this theory/idea is leading me to believe i might not be Fe leading, mostly because i think i might understand what you mean more easily if i were Fe leading? or perhaps its my not-as-strong-as-yours Ni that is making it more difficult. i'll stop there, to avoid a tangent.

    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by pluie View Post
    ok this is what happened: i just posted a thread prior to this one regarding taste in music, because i forgot what i REALLY wanted to ask about.

    and that was depression.

    If you have an SiFe versus and NiFe, would either be likely to disregard their physical health almost completely by taking pills, hanging out with anyone mindlessly, and sort of going numb?, Which would be more likely to have funky sleep patterns, due to insomnia, or just a lack of care for what is going on in their life? (Maybe insomnia is not type related. Therefore anyone is susceptible to it.)

    I have a feeling it would be more likely for an Ni to, simply because even if an Si is depressed, it would be their natural inclination to try to maintain balance within their own physical "world," correct? It would be more difficult for an Ni to be aware of/deal with depression in the physical aspect, resulting in over-sleeping/under-sleeping, not eating, loss of appetite, throwing up blood... side effects of emotional/personal instability.

    Perhaps my interpretation of NiFe and SiFe are not fully honed, but I hope I'm at least close, and that if I AM off, you will bear with me.

    Any clarifications on what I am getting at/trying to ask about needed? I'd be glad to clarify!
    The hanging out, retarded sleeping patterns, etc minus drugs sounds like my day-to-day life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Theoretically, I'd be surprised if it's not the leading function that "survives" the longest. My guess is that Fe-leading people end up using almost only Fe if pushed far enough into a depression. Ni will always be there, but will fade sooner.
    I agree, in any stressful situation (not just stressful as in high pressure, but any state of imbalance, physical or psychological, especially low-energy states) including depression, people will revert to their base function, simply because it's the easiest.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    I'd say that my depression leads into the -only nihilism - the central problem of my depression always seems to be that I can't derive all truth from logic alone (without external data), though I doubt that's ever what sparks it in the first place. I think I'm being loose with the word "depression," though... I'm hesitant to view a non-Fe-ego depression as "depression."
    I don't see why only Fe-egos can have "standard" depression. For example, I know ILIs with depression, and it seems to me to fits all the usual benchmarks. Clarify?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
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