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Thread: The SLI/ISTp type of laziness

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    Default The SLI/ISTp type of laziness

    Really? I'm curious about this really... Like what kind of laziness? What about the SLI laziness is particularly SLI? Do the SLIs here (?) identify with being lazy? What is so prominent about it that you can't miss it amid the rest of the 'IP laziness'? Etc. (PS: This isn't a sarcastic topic, and yes I have neglected to see where this could have been discussed before, and yes, I have been a really defensive poster lately, etc)

    Also isn't this part of ESE-SLI and LSE-SEI supervision? That the EJ accuses the IP of "being lazy"? I'm sure I've seen this mentioned before. But in what particular way? Like the SLI doesn't want to do any work and sits in their chair all day, too lazy to get up? Or what? Or Si=couch potato? I have no contexts really to place these things in, so they don't mean anything to me... but I'm sure there's something SLI-specific it's getting at? (I don't think I know any SLIs.)

    Oh, not to mention all the other lazy types.

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    People always associate SI with feeling good, E-9 behavior. I am sure most SLI are NOT E-9 and they are lazy at all.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    I think that Enneagram can explain people's motive much better than Socionics can, so laziness, I think can associate with Enneagram better than Socionics. The heart, mind and the guts are all instinct that we have and we naturally do this without effort, so laziness, or contrary to that a busy bee like most E-3 just comes naturally to people in their enneagram typing.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    For example, my task today was:

    -Do laundry
    -Run into the city to scan some documents
    -Pack for field school

    Well, I did the laundry. I was going to run into the city to take care of the document stuff, but instead I farted around on the internet and decided it could wait until tomorrow morning (I leave at noon). I'm also only half packed.

    Instead, as mentioned, I farted around on the internet. I also played guitar and wrote two songs. Then I went shopping for a Mother's Day gift, and got beer. Now I am drinking said beer... and farting around on the internet.

    Thing is, while I'll probably stay up late until 1 or 2 o'clock, I'll wake up tomorrow morning and be a whirlwind of activity. Everything will fit just right and it'll all be okay. Packing? Done. Drive into city? Done. Timesheets and expense report? Done. Parking pass? Done. Stationary supplies? Done. 1-2-3 right after the other.

    So basically, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm the most productive lazy-fuck you'll ever meet. I know how to relax, but at the same time I know how to get my ass in gear and boogie.
    SLI/ISTp -- Te subtype

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    with the enneagram i'd expect the withdrawn triad to be the most lazy, basically... so 4, 5, 9.

    hmm... if it all gets done on time in the end, perhaps it isn't really "lazy."

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    The SiTe I know are like what force described, they are very productive in bursts, and very hard-working when in said bursts. Like, I have a friend who will work hours upon hours and not sleep, but output the most amazing amount of work you'd ever see. And it'd all be quality, nothing will be half-assed. Admittedly, I tend to distract my SiTe friend from responsibilities sometimes But then I keep him company when he works and do my own thing, and it usually works out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by force my hand View Post
    For example, my task today was:

    -Do laundry
    -Run into the city to scan some documents
    -Pack for field school

    Well, I did the laundry. I was going to run into the city to take care of the document stuff, but instead I farted around on the internet and decided it could wait until tomorrow morning (I leave at noon). I'm also only half packed.

    Instead, as mentioned, I farted around on the internet. I also played guitar and wrote two songs. Then I went shopping for a Mother's Day gift, and got beer. Now I am drinking said beer... and farting around on the internet.

    Thing is, while I'll probably stay up late until 1 or 2 o'clock, I'll wake up tomorrow morning and be a whirlwind of activity. Everything will fit just right and it'll all be okay. Packing? Done. Drive into city? Done. Timesheets and expense report? Done. Parking pass? Done. Stationary supplies? Done. 1-2-3 right after the other.

    So basically, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm the most productive lazy-fuck you'll ever meet. I know how to relax, but at the same time I know how to get my ass in gear and boogie.
    I am pretty much the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    hmm... if it all gets done on time in the end, perhaps it isn't really "lazy."
    Well, some people say "don't leave for tomorrow what you can do today", and I say "don't do today what you can leave for tomorrow".
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    with the enneagram i'd expect the withdrawn triad to be the most lazy, basically... so 4, 5, 9.

    hmm... if it all gets done on time in the end, perhaps it isn't really "lazy."
    sometimes I just wonder why I need to work so hard in life, "in the end" it just doesn't matter, and sometimes, and you can rightfully call me an idealist on this, I hope if someone put their heart into their work, it can be a science researcher spending 50 years of his life finding a cure, or Meyer and Briggs still searching to develop Meyer Briggs after their death, that their work does not end there, and they can be reborn, and rightfully fit in to continuing their work where they started, it is only fair.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    I'm too lazy to even read this post right now.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Ejs like to move around and do things. And Ips like to relax. That doesn't mean Ips don't get things done, but Ejs have a fairly constant energy to them and don't understand the more leisured pace of Ips.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    -leading IPs probably have a tendency to procrastinate and are often generally slow to initiate certain tasks around the house, unless it's some 'personal project' of particular interest.

    The whole "Si=couch potato" is a dumb, oversimplified stereotype that inadvertently turns leading into some kind of humorous debilitation.

    ESE-SLI and LSE-SEI supervision isn't necessarily about one viewing the other as "lazy," per say, not as a rule at least. Though that might be a common EJ perception of IPs outside of their own quadra. EJ's might often feel a sense of urgency in certain situations or just simple preference for direct action to be taken that an IP might not, but not because the IP is "lazy," their different natural dispositions can cause them to evaluate situations differently, which will affect their different responses, or at least their perceptions of what type of response is appropiate at a given time.

    ESEs are more likely to playfully (and annoyingly) criticize SLIs for their lack of and I imagine the same is true for LSE-SEI supervision regarding the latter's lack of . Shared appreciation for the supervisor's creative function and the supervisees base makes those relations easier/more tolerable than conflict. Although, that's pretty basic stuff I assume you already knew.

    -leading/IP/EJ/ etc., is all about natural/prefered pace. None of these are necessarily related to work ethic or anything. Especially since I've worked with lazy, whiney ENTps, fat leisured ESTps, and thin, quickly paced ISXps. Let me know if this at all answers your questions or not.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Yeah, I think Ejs also want you to look like you're being productive, and unfortunately I have no idea what that entails.

    SLIs never seem to look like they're working that hard. My ex's house was spotless, and his yard was always neat, and he still managed to stay up partying all weekend. In some ways, he has way more energy than I do. Another friend of mine is working 40 hours a week and finishing a master's degree in microelectronics research. Not really what I'd call lazy.

    I think people view them as 'lazy' because they won't be prodded into doing things they view as useless, or burdensome to maintain, or that they're just not interested in. If they enjoy what they're doing, they can be workaholics.

    Is there such a thing as a "honey do" list for SLIs? Something tells me no...

    Anyway, lazy is in the eye of the beholder.
    IEE

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    My mom is an SLI 5w6, and she's not lazy at all. She's busy all day long with laundry, paperwork, gardening, cooking, and studying.

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    It doesn't seem like ISTps are lazy. From my perspective, they might not waste their time with optional and overly-strssful (lest completely useless, in many cases) additions to their workload or leisure time, but whatever they decide to undertake, they undertake with convinction.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It doesn't seem like ISTps are lazy. From my perspective, they might not waste their time with optional and overly-strssful (lest completely useless, in many cases) additions to their workload or leisure time, but whatever they decide to undertake, they undertake with convinction.
    That's especially interesting coming from you.

    I don't think the Ej/Ip thing is necessarily at the heart of the "SLIs are lazy" stereotype. Or maybe SLIs, IPs who supervise Ejs, bother LIEs about being too active... and maybe they do? FDG, how do you experience supervision by SLIs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by songofsappho View Post
    That's especially interesting coming from you.

    I don't think the Ej/Ip thing is necessarily at the heart of the "SLIs are lazy" stereotype. Or maybe SLIs, IPs who supervise Ejs, bother LIEs about being too active... and maybe they do? FDG, how do you experience supervision by SLIs?
    Based on what I've read by FDG and Ashton describing their respective experiences with SLIs, I don't really believe SLI-LIE supervision is all that pronounced. It ranges from subtle to non-existant in most cases.

    If you want a more obvious, perhaps "extreme" version of SLI-LIE supervision. Watch the video posted below. The video is a scene from the A&E original "IKE: COUNTDOWN TO D-DAY," a dramatization of the events leading up to the Allied invasion of Normandy, following the perspective of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    At precisely 2:33, a meeting between Gen. Eisenhower (Te-ISTp) and Gen. George S. Patton (Ni-ENTj) is about to proceed. While the depiction of this encounter is decidedly more sympathetic toward Eisenhower, observe Ike's reactions to Patton's + based judgements combined with Patton's strict "EJ convinction" regarding his perception of reality and the comments Eisenhower makes about Patton before and after the meeting. It's a pretty good fictional take on how SLI-LIE supervision might easily manifest within the context of a hierarchy based setting.



    EJ-IP relations and SLI-LIE supervision also played out in reality during WWII in cases where Patton would often forcefully urge his superiors to take swift military action, while Eisenhower largely and consistently remained unswayed and unconvinced by much of Patton's reasoning. General Omar Bradley was an Si-ISTp who worked and interacted with Patton on a much more frequent basis than Ike and was portrayed in the George C. Scott movie "PATTON." I haven't seen it all the way through in years, so I can't say for sure if supervision relations are played out in the film, but it's certainly worth looking into if you're really interested.

    To see the reverse of favorable positions regarding EJ-IP relations, watch this second video clip below. It's a scene from THE WEST WING television series. The following scene depicts a private encounter between fictional incumbent US president Jed Bartlet (Ni-ENFj) and opposing Republican presidential candidate Robert Ritchie (Te-ISTp). Bartlet's comments criticizing Ritchie's aloof, self satisfied demeanor strikes me as a good example of how an EJ temperment individual might often perceive an -leading IP temperment individual, especially if said ppl are "from" two separate quadras, which I also think plays a signifigant role in EJ-IP relations.

    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 05-08-2009 at 06:00 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    I'm called lazy all the time... even when I believe I’m doing a lot of work someone would take one look at me and call me lazy... I would then ask what makes you say that. I would get some kind of weak response like just look at you; I must give off some kind of relaxed look. I think ISTPs are just really good at making things look effortless, and it is sometimes mistaken for laziness.

    But then again my working hard can be different then someone else working hard.

    I have a lot of leisure time... does the amount of leisure time one has count of how lazy one is? If so then yeah I’m lazy.
    Last edited by CareLess; 05-11-2009 at 07:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Yeah, I think Ejs also want you to look like you're being productive, and unfortunately I have no idea what that entails.
    I disagree that all Ejs want you to look like you're being productive. I find this more true for Ej-Fe though, not with Te types.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer
    SLIs never seem to look like they're working that hard. My ex's house was spotless, and his yard was always neat, and he still managed to stay up partying all weekend. In some ways, he has way more energy than I do. Another friend of mine is working 40 hours a week and finishing a master's degree in microelectronics research. Not really what I'd call lazy.

    I think people view them as 'lazy' because they won't be prodded into doing things they view as useless, or burdensome to maintain, or that they're just not interested in. If they enjoy what they're doing, they can be workaholics.

    Is there such a thing as a "honey do" list for SLIs? Something tells me no...

    Anyway, lazy is in the eye of the beholder.
    SLIs have a way of looking relaxed no matter what they are doing. It can drive an ENFj mad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    SLIs have a way of looking relaxed no matter what they are doing. It can drive an ENFj mad.
    Why?
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    The pace isn't about how quickly things get done as much as simply speed and amount of movement. EIEs like people to show what they consider the appropriate amount of fuss and bother for the circumstance. If something bad happens, you should visibly appear upset. If something wonderful happens, you should visibly appear happy. There is often movement associated with those kinds of displays - pacing, hugging, etc., depending on the circumstance. SLIs are reserved and their emotional show, or what there is of it, is deliberate and careful. So if something bad happens and you aren't pacing, or moving around in whatever is the appropriate way, it looks like you aren't taking it seriously and/or don't care.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Awesome avatar, SM. Is that your daughter?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Awesome avatar, SM. Is that your daughter?
    Yeah, that's my new baby. Thanks!
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    I disagree that all Ejs want you to look like you're being productive. I find this more true for Ej-Fe though, not with Te types.
    My former employer is an Si-ESTj general manager who is a lot like tiny dancer described.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    SLIs have a way of looking relaxed no matter what they are doing. It can drive an ENFj mad.
    Yep.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    I disagree that all Ejs want you to look like you're being productive. I find this more true for Ej-Fe though, not with Te types.
    Oh, you haven't met my LIE boss. First thing he did after he got here was fire an SLI. The next thing he did was fire the SEI. Now he's working on me. Yesterday he insinuated that I deliberately half-assed a document because my interpretation of the necessary items were not what the city official wanted.

    The really fucking irritating thing about all of this is that it's obvious that he misjudges everyone he meets based on his own wacko criteria for looking like you're being productive, but HE can't focus on one. single. sentence. you're saying. He jumps to conclusions about what the person is asking and then behaves in an incredibly condescending manner while not even understanding the question. I don't think he ever gets any work done in a day because he's so mentally strung out.

    I wonder if it's ever crossed his mind that he's the only common denominator to all his fucked up situations. He really doesn't. He just thinks that everyone else is the problem. I really do think he believes he's the only normal person on the planet. Wonder what it feels like.

    BUT the bright ray of sunshine is that the real person who makes the decisions recognizes that he's an ass who starts fights everywhere he goes in under five minutes. I don't exaggerate. Business meetings with him are painful.

    God, I needed that rant. Feel free to ignore it. I just needed to say it.
    IEE

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    I've worked for an LSE and an LIE and really liked working for both. But people are more than their types. Anyway, the specific ones I worked for didn't have that issue.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CareLess View Post
    I think ISTPs are just really good at making things look effortless, and it is sometimes mistaken for laziness.
    Yeah they definately can. I was working with an ISTp the other night and she went up to make a salad for everyone and clean the kitchen. When i walked up there a few minutes later everything was done i could hardly believe it. I would have piss farted around picking up one knife, putting it away and then realising there was more cutlery somewhere else. If you had a top down record of me cleaning a kitchen i would look like a rat on speed running everywhere all squiggly like, while she would be elegant smooth lines

    Oh and by the way this woman works from 8:00am in the morning at the hostpital, comes in to my work at 4:00 and works till midnight 3 nights a week. She says she does it because she wants her kids to have lots of stuff and she wants to eat well. That is not lazy at all. I actually felt duality with her within seconds. Ive never got on so well with an ISTp female before. Too bad shes older and married
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Why?
    Well, this is an interaction I have seen with an ISTp employee and an ENFj superior. The ISTp did everything he was supposed to do, he made sure things were organized and was one of the best salesperson. Yet the ISTp did in a such nonchalant and cool way that made it seem he did no work at all. The ENFj completely ignored the numbers and would get frustrated by the coolness of the ISTp.

    In contrast to my ESTj boss, the GM (who was the superior of the ENFj) got along marvelously with the ISTp and never berated the ISTp for being unproductive.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer
    Oh, you haven't met my LIE boss. First thing he did after he got here was fire an SLI. The next thing he did was fire the SEI. Now he's working on me. Yesterday he insinuated that I deliberately half-assed a document because my interpretation of the necessary items were not what the city official wanted.

    The really fucking irritating thing about all of this is that it's obvious that he misjudges everyone he meets based on his own wacko criteria for looking like you're being productive, but HE can't focus on one. single. sentence. you're saying. He jumps to conclusions about what the person is asking and then behaves in an incredibly condescending manner while not even understanding the question. I don't think he ever gets any work done in a day because he's so mentally strung out.

    I wonder if it's ever crossed his mind that he's the only common denominator to all his fucked up situations. He really doesn't. He just thinks that everyone else is the problem. I really do think he believes he's the only normal person on the planet. Wonder what it feels like.

    BUT the bright ray of sunshine is that the real person who makes the decisions recognizes that he's an ass who starts fights everywhere he goes in under five minutes. I don't exaggerate. Business meetings with him are painful.

    God, I needed that rant. Feel free to ignore it. I just needed to say it.
    I won't ignore it. It's good to rant! Actually, this is so similar to the way I felt about the EIE superior I just mentioned above. He's gone now, thank goodness. I just can't imagine why in the world a Te type would be more concerned about looking productive more so than actually being productive. I mean, is not the feature of Te types to recognize when things are getting done, ends being met? Maybe the LIE just has too high of an expectation and, as a result, thinks everybody is being under-productive. At this point, then, it's not really about looking good but having unreasonably high expectations.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Maybe the LIE just has too high of an expectation and, as a result, thinks everybody is being under-productive. At this point, then, it's not really about looking good but having unreasonably high expectations.
    Yes. He is definitely concerned with real productivity. I think he read some management book - I've seen it in the bookstore - it has 'sense of urgency' in the title. He uses that phrase a lot, and now I know why! But I think there's a vibe he's looking for that I'm not producing. (Nor is anyone else, actually)

    Anyway. I feel much better today.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    Well, this is an interaction I have seen with an ISTp employee and an ENFj superior. The ISTp did everything he was supposed to do, he made sure things were organized and was one of the best salesperson. Yet the ISTp did in a such nonchalant and cool way that made it seem he did no work at all. The ENFj completely ignored the numbers and would get frustrated by the coolness of the ISTp.
    So... it's more about appearances?
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    So... it's more about appearances?
    Yes...That was the point.

    tiny_dancer, glad you feel better.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    Twist-Tie Spider iAnnAu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    The pace isn't about how quickly things get done as much as simply speed and amount of movement. EIEs like people to show what they consider the appropriate amount of fuss and bother for the circumstance. If something bad happens, you should visibly appear upset. If something wonderful happens, you should visibly appear happy. There is often movement associated with those kinds of displays - pacing, hugging, etc., depending on the circumstance. SLIs are reserved and their emotional show, or what there is of it, is deliberate and careful. So if something bad happens and you aren't pacing, or moving around in whatever is the appropriate way, it looks like you aren't taking it seriously and/or don't care.
    I like this. I definitely feel like I have to make an effort to show the "appropriate" amount of emotion so that others around me don't judge me as aloof. It's not that I don't feel the emotion; it's that I don't naturally show it. It took me a long, awkward childhood and adolescence to even figure out that state of affairs, and even now I still have a hard time reminding myself how to express the expected reaction (which is also always a balancing act because I hate feeling inauthentic, and "making" myself smile or try to show sympathy, etc. is often frustrating).

    Since that's slightly off the OP, I'd also like to say that I frequently describe myself as lazy, but that's mainly an affectation. At work I get more done than practically anyone else; certain members of the office don't do as much in a week as I do in a day. And I just committed myself to 12 hours of classes for the summer, with plans for 15 hours each the next fall & spring semesters. I have zero anxiety that I will ace all my classes regardless of working 40 hours a week (well, to be fair, I'm getting a business admin degree; I might be sweatin' it if I was going for engineering!). At home, I'm also pretty much the only one who ever takes out the trash & recycling, cleans the bathroom or runs the dishwasher.

    But the reason I think of myself as lazy is because I MAKE a place for doing nothing in my life. It's quite important to me. I don't go around looking for chores to complete; rather, when I see something needs to be done, I get it over with. I don't want to think about my responsibilities. I take maintenance seriously at the same time as finding it terribly tedious, so I do what I can to minimize it.

    One great example is that I don't shave. Why should I? It's an awful lot of effort and I personally don't mind the hair. I do, however, notice when people are shocked upon seeing my legs & underarms in such a state. It's none of their fucking business, but I can't control their reaction, so most of the time, I take the easy road by wearing long pants and shirts with sleeves. That even simplifies my wardrobe. And believe me, I'm no radical: I don't think the practice is some kind of conspiracy to "keep women down" or sell more razors or other crazy shit I've read other people want to think. My attitude and actions (or in this case lack thereof) all come back to being lazy.

    The funny thing about it is, the women I've actually talked to about this (which haven't been many) say they would be too stressed out by NOT shaving. For them, it may actually be easier to go through all the motions of satisfying that societal expectation. But the one 6-month period when I tried to shave on a regular basis, my roommate finally blew up in my face because she got so fed up at me complaining about how much work it was, how I itched ALL THE TIME, how much time it took up ... that's one person other than myself who was actually relieved when I want back to my "dirty hippie" ways! (Dirty hippie in quotes because I'm neither, but that is often others' assumption about me)
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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