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Thread: Description of extraverted sensing Se on Wikisocion

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    Default Description of extraverted sensing Se on Wikisocion

    It makes sense to me. I am very idealistic, and spout off ideas, meaning/creativity in life- while I seem to enjoy a lot of protection from outside forces.

    But I believe it's possible to actually dualize yourself, in your own brain with enough practice. It's no where near as easy if a real dual comes along. But it IS possible since you're from the same quadra. An SLE can make themselves more like an IEI, an IEI can make themselves more like an SLE. This makes a person feel a LOT better.

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    I was thinking one moves towards their activator, not their dual.

    Forts, BnD?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Do Se-leading people here identify with the Se-description on Wikisocion? I mean, it sounds like they describe a real asshole.... I react negatively to the bolded parts in particular.
    yeah, i wouldn't trust these descriptions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    yeah, i wouldn't trust these descriptions.
    yes... only trust steve... lol

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    or myself.

    Dude, you're not gonna pin this on me. I listen to my own mental compass. I have no greater interest than making sense of my existence and the accumulation of knowledge. If I agree with Steve on many things, so be it.
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    The bold parts sound stupid to me. Sounds like someone with massive superiority complex.
    , Se-sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    yes... only trust steve... lol
    FUCK OFF WITH THIS INCESSANT AD HOMINEM AND GO EAT SOME SUBSTANCE FOR BREAKFAST TOMORROW. GOD. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    I'm waiting for the placating sweet talk allowing you to step back.

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    lol

    -my Fe 2-cents.
    "If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    The bold parts sound stupid to me. Sounds like someone with massive superiority complex.
    Yeah I was going to mention you Herzy, but decided against it.

    I really can't see you, Jimbean, or the aztec name guy (Huitzapolsadjhasd^$&^46%) for that matter being anything like that.
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    yeah like I've said before that sort of control or overt macho-ness stuff usually manifests in males of all Ej types, but especially Ni ENTj's and Si ESTj's.

    Tom, Ezra, FDG, Ashton, yada yada yada.

    Nah, actually its basically all Ej males.
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    I think controlling is a loaded word. From my point of view, dealing with SLEs can be difficult because they continually persuade you of what they want to do, which is not necessarily what I want to do. Many times I appreciate their motivating energy and willingness to get things moving. Other times, however, I end up 'going along' and wind up in a shitty situation with the short end of the stick.

    Overall, I feel like I have to be super prepared to deal with an onslaught of persuasion. It's an enormous amount of pressure for me. I'd prefer it if they just backed off and left me to make the decision on my own. What typically happens, though, is that they get irritated because I'm taking too long making up my mind. What I'm doing is weighing the possibilities of the situation and choosing the best one for me, which also means I'm going to make decisions based on things that they don't value (and seem pointless and stupid to them). I'm sure it looks like I'm being slow and wishy-washy, but that's just how I operate. Anyway, sometimes I avoid them because I get tired of constantly having to ward that off. Obviously Se doesn't feel like that to someone who values it, but that's how it feels to me.
    IEE

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    right I understand.

    Te's bossiness just annoys me.

    Se is like immobilizing. My entire world has to stop and zoom into the Se-er when they go off. I feel cut-off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Se is like immobilizing. My entire world has to stop and zoom into the Se-er when they go off. I feel cut-off.
    So spaketh the Se-role.
    Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson

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    Watch it Mimosa, you're questioning Ezra's holy grail of socionic understanding there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    yeah like I've said before that sort of control or overt macho-ness stuff usually manifests in males of all Ej types, but especially....Si ESTj's.
    Yep. Pretty much. This is what happens when you type only general behaviors without regard for the psychic processes that go into them.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    The Se and SLE descriptions were what made me reject socionics at first. I can't imagine being attracted to that description. But I've come to the understanding that Wikisocion is necessarily reductive and oversimplistic.

    He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively.
    My understanding is more along the lines of, "He or she understands that obedience and even subservience in others allows him to "make things happen" more effectively."

    He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.
    I prefer to think of that aspect as, "He also readily resorts to assertiveness to achieve his own goals. This can sometimes be interpreted as aggression."
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Do Se-leading people here identify with the Se-description on Wikisocion? I mean, it sounds like they describe a real asshole.... I react negatively to the bolded parts in particular.
    I'll try to rephrase them using what I understand... Please let me know if it sounds better.

    "He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively. " becomes "SLE likes others to trust their reasoning and comply to their directions." (I don't think SLE likes servitude per se but see obedience as effective. Orders are means for action to happen. This text reminds me of a famous line from Star Wars: "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!" SLE don't like to discuss their decisions and they are good at what they do IF their decisions are not discussed. The tactical skills of a SLE will become null if their suggested actions would be voted upon.)

    "He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals." becomes "When other means have been exhausted, SLE might resort to aggression in order to achieve their goals" (SLE has no problem in using aggression. This willingness to use it might give them the aura or power that they have. But I don't think they like aggression in a sadistic kind of way. I don't think they don't enjoy using aggression. I recently saw a SLE promising a lady that she will break her legs if she finds her. There was RAW aggression in this SLE's voice, you could tell that it was told loaded with intention. I thought it was cute... and useless. Ok, that lady gave our rooms to someone else, she left us without accomodations after a 7 hours drive. We were all tired and a tired SLE can be jumpy. I didn't thought that she would have actually broken her legs so that empty promise sounded kinda cute. Maybe, if sufficiently drunk, she would have broken some of that lady's property. Maybe!)
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    I'll try to rephrase them using what I understand... Please let me know if it sounds better.
    They're ok for SLEs, but they don't describe "Se-leading" per se.

    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    "SLE likes others to trust their reasoning and comply to their directions."
    Obviously doesn't work for SEEs, but it might work for both if you change "their reasoning".

    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    "When other means have been exhausted, SLE might resort to aggression in order to achieve their goals"
    I don't think Se-leading types would exhaustively use other means.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Do Se-leading people here identify with the Se-description on Wikisocion? I mean, it sounds like they describe a real asshole.... I react negatively to the bolded parts in particular.
    Yeah, I basically agree with that but in myself only. I don't think all SLEs necessarily use aggression (especially not older, more experienced SLEs), although it is relatively typical of them. However, I think the SLE Se description is far better and more all-encompassing.

    One other thing - just because you may react negatively doesn't mean it isn't Se. IEIs don't necessarily like all SLE traits; just many of them, and probably more than do other types. The IEI's job is to help the SLE find an even more effective way of doing something without fucking up the environment emotionally.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    One other thing - just because you may react negatively doesn't mean it isn't Se. IEIs don't necessarily like all SLE traits; just many of them, and probably more than do other types. The IEI's job is to help the SLE find an even more effective way of doing something without fucking up the environment emotionally.


    Efficiency efficiency efficiency efficiency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post


    Efficiency efficiency efficiency efficiency.
    Eurgh I'm sick of people equating efficiency with Te. (I'm also sick of people equating effectiveness with efficiency.) Se types want to get shit done as much as any Te type does. If not more so.

    Se types want to get shit done as much as any Te type does. If not more so. Delta Te types are EFFICIENT - their effectivity is a side effect of their efficiency. Se types are effective if they're good at what they do and, if they're Gamma, they're likely to be efficient too. This is why Gammas (essentially extroverts) are seen as the most ruthless businesspeople; they are immensely effective and efficient at what they do.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Sorry, I thought you as LSE was a funny joke.

    But I'm glad you got it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    Sorry, I thought you as LSE was a funny joke.

    But I'm glad you got it
    I know from an Alpha perspective it was meant to be funny, and I'm sure there are people who think it is funny. I just can't be bothered laughing at it though. There are jokes which people make about me which I do genuinely find funny, and I don't have to make an effort to laugh about. But in this case, it's just not that funny. If anything, it's been overkilled to the point of tedium.

    Apologies for basically pummelling into the dirt everything your quadra stands for.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    No problem.

    Just try not to rape the corpse, eh Mr Beta?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    No problem.

    Just try not to rape the corpse, eh Mr Beta?
    Ehh, I'm not a big fan of necrophilia. Try Hugo for that shit. He probably needs it.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Apologies for basically pummelling into the dirt everything your quadra stands for.
    If there's one thing socionics has taught me, it's how to destroy relationships with a single sentence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    I find ILEs are naturally good at repelling their duals, actually, OL.

    They don't even need to use a single heartbreaking sentence!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    yeah like I've said before that sort of control or overt macho-ness stuff usually manifests in males of all Ej types, but especially Ni ENTj's and Si ESTj's.

    Tom, Ezra, FDG, Ashton, yada yada yada.

    Nah, actually its basically all Ej males.
    I am a softcore EJ male, I think you may want to reiterate your sentence.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    You? Softcore?

    Unless being drunk somehow crystallizes your essence into EJ manlitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    yeah like I've said before that sort of control or overt macho-ness stuff usually manifests in males of all Ej types, but especially Ni ENTj's and Si ESTj's.

    Tom, Ezra, FDG, Ashton, yada yada yada.

    Nah, actually its basically all Ej males.
    Who in your eyes is actually macho?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The EII's job is to help the LSE find an even more effective way of doing something without fucking up the environment emotionally.
    +

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    +
    I would so turn gay for you, DeAnte.

    Let's internet make out.

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    Let's not and say we didn't.


    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Agreed

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    lol @ that beating heart in your avatar.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Maybe it's a wife-beating heart.

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    there was nothing in that description I felt was particularly disconcerting. I guess because I read it with a grain of salt, realizing that every SLE is an individual and thinking that if I trusted him, he wouldn't demand that I obey against my own judgment. In fact, I'm sure that he would ask my opinion and then we'd go with whatever he decided. As to resorting to aggression, I didn't take that to mean actual fighting but more like it could mean an aggressive approach or attitude toward solving a situation. The inclination to be confrontational (which I admire!) lol
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    there was nothing in that description I felt was particularly disconcerting. I guess because I read it with a grain of salt, realizing that every SLE is an individual and thinking that if I trusted him, he wouldn't demand that I obey against my own judgment. In fact, I'm sure that he would ask my opinion and then we'd go with whatever he decided. As to resorting to aggression, I didn't take that to mean actual fighting but more like it could mean an aggressive approach or attitude toward solving a situation. The inclination to be confrontational (which I admire!) lol
    this is how I felt about it too for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    hm interesting, I don't see any of those people as truly "macho", except possibly Tom ...
    Fuck sake, you're obsessed.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    hm interesting, I don't see any of those people as truly "macho", except possibly Tom ... not saying that the others are necessarily "girly" or anything like that either.
    Lol well I've certainly seen it from the others. Try disagreeing with any of them and see what happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Lol well I've certainly seen it from the others. Try disagreeing with any of them and see what happens.
    I disagreed with Tom just recently and he very reasonably (and respectably, mind you) backed off. Ezra and FDG have both been very reasonable in confrontations and in entertaining opposing views. I disagreed with Ashton a few times and he was a whiny little bitch who took plenty of opportunities to suck up to my viewpoints. Tom is probably the most "macho" person in the group, but I'm far more belligerent than any of these people.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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