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Thread: Serious, unanswered question about me

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Serious, unanswered question about me

    Seriously, can someone please explain to me why there is so much tendency to type me as LSE.

    I don't want to know why I am LSE or SLE. I know my type, and I don't need someone else to tell me. I want to know why it is that there are a large number of people that type me as LSE, or even see it as a possibility.

    Why LSE? Why not IEE? Or LIE? Or SEI? What is it about LSE that is connected with SLE, which these other types simply don't have? Why are people primarily cut between SLE and LSE?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    You could just check the links located in your sig.

    Let not your heart be troubled Ezra. Now that you have created this thread, more than enough of your internet friends will soon arrive to reassure you that "you're NOT LSE Ezra, lol". And all will be right in the world again.

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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Because you're definitely ESTx, and who can figure out that blasted j/p dichotomy anyway?

    Thus, LSE is the easiest type to push you into when you're "too nice" to be Beta or some such thing (haven't read the arguments, just guessing as to why people might call you LSE).



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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    No that's not why Brilliand.

    And Ezra the reason is because there is a bloc of people who dont "get" socionics basing things on trivial behavioral traits like "Being forceful" and sowing seeds of misconception.

    You have become one of these people unfortunately.

    People say you're LSE not based on ignorance or dislike of you, but on how you display the IME's.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    No that's not why Brilliand.

    And Ezra the reason is because there is a bloc of people who dont "get" socionics basing things on trivial behavioral traits like "Being forceful" and sowing seeds of misconception.

    You have become one of these people unfortunately.

    People say you're LSE not based on ignorance or dislike of you, but on how you display the IME's.
    The moron strikes again.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    JuJu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Why LSE? Why not IEE? Or LIE? Or SEI? What is it about LSE that is connected with SLE, which these other types simply don't have? Why are people primarily cut between SLE and LSE?
    Because "ESTx" ... And they haven't learned about inter-type/IM elements well enough to know what's beta and what's delta... And their 4 friends say the last letter is "j..." So "j."

    Same reason Steve types me ENFp.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Default i can over-simplify positions too!

    You put "action philosopher" and "plato smash" in your avatar so that we would think you have a hard uncompromising attitude about philosophy and say "oh so that's how Se egos address philosophical matters!" The other theory is that it's just your way of expressing your frustration about your sexuality. In either case, such posturing will get you no where.

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    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    It's the club similarities. Both types have strong Se and Si, Te and Ti. It's the same reason that gamma NTs and alpha NTs get typed as the other, or beta NFs and delta NFs. I also know of SEIs who have considered ESI, and to figure out which they were, we looked at which type most complements them. Things that most annoy me about ILEs, were the things they most appreciated about them!
    Yep. And I think this is more true of some people than others. I think JuJu is the same - it's hard to see from the outside whether he's Beta or Delta. You have to look at which functions are valued, and not just whether you see a function used. Like, would you give up comfort to get something you wanted, or would you let something you wanted go in order to maintain comfort? Would you take a high-paying job somewhere if you'd have to have a small uncomfortable noisy apartment? Or would you rather have a job that doesn't pay well but live somewhere spacious and restful and lovely? (This is a real-life choice my husband and I had to make, and we chose less money/more comfort.)
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  10. #10
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You put "action philosopher" and "plato smash" in your avatar so that we would think you have a hard uncompromising attitude about philosophy and say "oh so that's how Se egos address philosophical matters!" The other theory is that it's just your way of expressing your frustration about your sexuality. In either case, such posturing will get you no where.
    lol

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anyone can think you are an LSE.

    LSE's aren't aggressive in the way you are. They are more sort of dominant but not the 'ready to attack' type. (sorry if I portray you to much as an agressive person, but it's just a way of explaining by exaggeration)

    Next to that, you VI perfectly like a SLE-ti guy at my work.

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    Archon Alarion, this is a LSE, (Bob Dole

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhtmOJ58U5c]YouTube - 1996 interview with Bob Dole - Barbara Walters 20/20[/ame]

  13. #13
    Creepy-male

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    I never really noticed Ezra being aggressive tbh.

    ...

    Apparently I'm alone in this.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Yeah, they are Glam and thats derived from the actual elements, not your BS elements = behavioral traits.

    @Warlord: Dont really care what you have to say, you neither contribute here nor do you give reasoning for calling me a "moron". You'll probably try to brush this off with "I dont need to argue with morons" or something, but really its because you are just one more asshole on this forum who knows diddly-squat about the IME's and their behavioral manifestations.

    Its okay though, guys. I'm confident that one day all of you will realize your mistakes.
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  15. #15
    Creepy-male

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    Fe PoLR ftw.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    but really its because you are just one more asshole on this forum who knows diddly-squat about the IME's and their behavioral manifestations.
    No u.

    lol
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Fe = being nice


    So yeah its pretty obvious that anyone who conceals themselves in "objectivity" "facts" and "being rude" isn't just subconsciously crying for out for pity, spiteing the cruel world, and compensating for fear of being dependent on others, but is really just an INTp.

    Fe polr = saying you're Fe polr, being quasi-autistic, having thinly veiled angst, and forcing everyone to walk on eggshells around you.


    There's an example of why I'm totally wrong about socionics and all the self-proclaimed INTp's (or one in particular) are certainly Fe polr and this is truly a polr, not just a complex neurosis which has bamboozled most of the community because they cant see the noses on their faces.

    =O

    But this thread is about Ezra isn't it?

    my b. (nothing to do with Wartlard btw)

    Oh Gul were you just joking again?
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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    so you're saying - it's not okay to associate the behavioral trait "forceful" with Se, but it is okay to associate the behavioral trait "bossy motherfucker" with Te EJs?

    No. I'm saying that unless you first demonstrate how it is and specify in what way it is, than it means nothing.
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  19. #19
    Creepy-male

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    @Yake

    I was being semi-serious.

    You completely seem to fail to care about how you're coming across to others, especially in the ideas department. This is why I say Fe PoLR... just read Rick's descriptions of ESEs.

    Additionally, your inaccessible rightitude reminds me of this description of ILIs.

    </business Gul>

  20. #20
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

  21. #21
    Creepy-male

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    Actually, Yake seems to be using a composite system.

    Something about those crazy NTs.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Ezra, people like deante say you are lse because 1. Deante is lsi and feels that you share some traits 2. Many people envision sles as super active, typically like some kind of jock or sleezy business uber capitalist or meth head punk with a bad attitude 3. You appear very controlled and level headed, which some people who are used to mbti equate with j 4. You seem relatively open minded which some may epuate to ne valuing if they are newish 5. You sometimes appear to be posturing rather "obviously" which some people equate to you "trying to be sle" when in reality its just poor fe+ni.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Gul, saying that jake uses a composite system is as vindicating as excusing a guy playing baseball for disputing rules of the game because he is trying to spice things up by mixing in rules from cricket.

  24. #24
    Creepy-male

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    K, true.

    But I'm trying to avoid more bitterness here.

    Yake, Gilly and Diana are absolutely right, though. And it's not just you. We have all of these people referring to completely different "socionics"-es. And it gets confusing. And people also get mad, because of all of the Gammas and Betas on the forum who are super serious.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    lol. First of all Gul, a person is not one dimensional. You can actually care alot about how you come across to others and still act like a dick.

    and I'm not INTp. Please. You dont even know your own type.

    And Diana, w/e. I don't give a flying shit when I joined. It doesn't matter whether I joined in 2005 or the 5th of january. Very few people here have more than a meager grasp of what the IME's are and its more a testament to by own intelligence that I was able to pick-up this stuff so rapidly (Notice how I came here basically spouting the very BS I now battle. Hmmm, wonder why even when those I now agree with were total dicks to me that I'd still come to be "on their side" in the span of a few months?). Many think socionics is a fast-food science where you can see someone being a grump and label them with Fe polr or see someone being "forceful" and call them Se ego. All it does is degrades the theory, dragging it down into the realm of folk psychology and shitty folk psych to boot.

    Like I said, you'll all figure it out some day.

    And don't assume I have the same opinions on everything as the rest of the evil black-hearted X-ers do. I don't or I have branched out into other theories as well.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    lol. First of all Gul, a person is not one dimensional. You can actually care alot about how you come across to others and still act like a dick.

    and I'm not INTp. Please. You dont even know your own type.
    Correction: you are invested against your INTp typing. And anyway, I'm sure I'm SEI now. That was a very Te comment to make, you know? (Si says: an SLI, an LSE and an LIE have all used that same argument on me. It could be some general Logic thing, but apparently that's not a real dichotomy.)

    I'm sure of your type now. I'm really sorry about what happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    And Diana, w/e. I don't give a flying shit when I joined. It doesn't matter whether I joined in 2005 or the 5th of january. Very few people here have more than a meager grasp of what the IME's are and its more a testament to by own intelligence that I was able to pick-up this stuff so rapidly (Notice how I came here basically spouting the very BS I now battle. Hmmm, wonder why even when those I now agree with were total dicks to me that I'd still come to be "on their side" in the span of a few months?). Many think socionics is a fast-food science where you can see someone being a grump and label them with Fe polr or see someone being "forceful" and call them Se ego. All it does is degrades the theory, dragging it down into the realm of folk psychology and shitty folk psych to boot.
    You insult people's intelligence now? Smooth, Yake, smooth. Explain the post you just made in socionics terms. Let's take a dynamic crash course in Fe!

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Like I said, you'll all figure it out some day.
    Oho!

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    And don't assume I have the same opinions on everything as the rest of the evil black-hearted X-ers do. I don't or I have branched out into other theories as well.
    Yake has a soul!

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    lol okay, well convince all the Te valuers here that I'm Te ego and I'll give you a big ole cookie.
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    Creepy-male

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    Do I look logically coherent to you?

    You do it

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    Im Te ego because I don't let people bulldoze over ideas that I believe in.

    That also makes me Se valuing because anyone who holds to an unpopular idea is obviously interested in "willpower and being forceful"

    Oh and more about the Te. I'm Te cuz I like "information". I like taking random wikipedia articles and slapping them in all sorts of places as if its gonna drive the Fe-ers crazy.

    I'm a grump and dont follow "ethical norms".

    Ya see, Fe:

    1. emotions
    2. ethical norms
    3. conformity
    4. being annoyingly cheerful and forcing others to have fun
    5. eating babies
    6. Whatever Niffweed says it is.
    7. Whatever wikisocion says it is
    8. raping kittens
    9. Being "superficial"
    10. Not having your own feelings/lacking any deeper feelings

    So now that I understand the "socionics" version of Fe I think I'll head back to "socionix"

    Idk man "internal object dynamics" just... idk. Sounds space-age. So I'm going to leave this thread. Thank you for giving me so much information about the price of bananas though.
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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    You're going off the wrong direction. Preaching to other people who understand them better than you do about how they're making mistakes does not help things any. Ignoring the fact that other people actually HAVE looked into this stuff already, and they DO make sense in the whole scheme of things isn't doing yourself any favors.
    This, Jake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    It's great that you want to expand things, and take socionics into more directions. BUT, and this is a huge BUT, you need to really grasp the basics first.
    And this.

    Diana is right, Jake.

    There are people here who've studied Socionics for years--Diana is one, Gilly is one, Ezra is one--smart people, who've entertained every idea you're now touting (none of them are new--Steve has been singing the exact same song for years... And it's not anymore reality-based now than it was then.)

    Personally, I wouldn't mind if I didn't know your spiel was turning off people to Socionics and this forum... It's tough for people to learn when you're constantly giving them the wrong info.

    If you want to talk about Socionix--your typings and theory--PLEASE go to Ashton's forum, or the "other typologies" section of this forum. Leave this one alone.

    If you're interested in learning real Socionics, please take Diana's advice.

    I'm being very sincere... As someone who used to entertain the ideas you're entertaining now... At least, if you're going to post here, say "in my version of Socionix," or whatever... Otherwise people will confuse what you write for real Socionics.

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    ^ much more eloquently said.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Im Te ego because I don't let people bulldoze over ideas that I believe in.

    That also makes me Se valuing because anyone who holds to an unpopular idea is obviously interested in "willpower and being forceful"

    Oh and more about the Te. I'm Te cuz I like "information". I like taking random wikipedia articles and slapping them in all sorts of places as if its gonna drive the Fe-ers crazy.

    I'm a grump and dont follow "ethical norms".

    Ya see, Fe:

    1. emotions
    2. ethical norms
    3. conformity
    4. being annoyingly cheerful and forcing others to have fun
    5. eating babies
    6. Whatever Niffweed says it is.
    7. Whatever wikisocion says it is
    8. raping kittens
    9. Being "superficial"
    10. Not having your own feelings/lacking any deeper feelings

    So now that I understand the "socionics" version of Fe I think I'll head back to "socionix"

    Idk man "internal object dynamics" just... idk. Sounds space-age. So I'm going to leave this thread. Thank you for giving me so much information about the price of bananas though.
    when i am done with my thread on the cubic model you should read it. Maybe even scoping it now would make things a little more clear, give you an idea of how to think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't mind if I didn't know your spiel was turning off people to Socionics and this forum... It's tough for people to learn when you're constantly giving them the wrong info.
    People will gravitate toward whatever most accurately describes their experience - whether it's Model A, Model X, or some combination in between, regardless of your efforts to squelch it.

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    Steve, if you'd leave your house once in awhile you'd realize what you're hypothesizing about doesn't describe any real person's experience... Not yours, not anyone's.

    And it's not Socionics... That's the message... (I don't care to "squelch" anything... More power to you if you want to conjecture about this stuff... Just, people should know what's Socionics vs. what you write about.)

    What you write about has no functional model of inter-type relations, (Model A's biggest success...) The people you type together under the rubric of 'the same type' are often of opposite quadras, e.g. Jeff Daniels and Dr. Phil... You've created something, which--however fun it is to NeTi about--has zero application in the world.

    Your posts should go under "other typologies," lest newcomers mistake what you believe for real Socionics.

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    how much are scotsmen these days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Steve, if you'd leave your house once in awhile you'd realize what you're hypothesizing about doesn't describe any real person's experience... Not yours, not anyone's.
    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu
    What you write about has no functional model of inter-type relations, (Model A's biggest success...) The people you type together under the rubric of 'the same type' are often of opposite quadras, e.g. Jeff Daniels and Dr. Phil... You've created something, which--however fun it is to NeTi about--has zero application in the world.
    Oh if only you knew. I love how you assume "not anyone's". Try again buddy.

    The typings I've made of ppl IRL have quite accurately held up in intertype relations. It holds up in social groups and in all my experience, as well as of those who I ask who don't know socionics: "I'm guessing you'd get along well with this person", and the person can sense it too and affirms it, infact elaborating on socionics things without even knowing they're socionics things while responding to me.

    I would LOVE to see, for example, the what I consider to be "faux" Betas interact with real Betas IRL and see how identical they are.

    So just because something can't break the barrier into your world doesn't mean others can't see it.

    Again, you seem phobic to whatever this "Ti stuff" is. I've never seen an ENFj react this way to my propositions. And if they disagree, they address it by actually addressing the points and logic I make directly, which is completely unlike what you do. You totally dodge everything and don't seem to be able to address the actual connections I make with my thinking. You just revert back to "This is not the official thing, I like you, but I don't want you telling people the wrong information". It's getting transparent and old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Seriously, can someone please explain to me why there is so much tendency to type me as LSE.

    I don't want to know why I am LSE or SLE. I know my type, and I don't need someone else to tell me. I want to know why it is that there are a large number of people that type me as LSE, or even see it as a possibility.

    Why LSE? Why not IEE? Or LIE? Or SEI? What is it about LSE that is connected with SLE, which these other types simply don't have? Why are people primarily cut between SLE and LSE?
    I always assumed you were SLE because I believed you had typed yourself as an SLE (I could be wrong here) and I saw no compelling evidence against that. So until either (a) you say you're a specific type other than SLE, or (b) I see strong evidence correlated to a specific type other than SLE, I will continue believing you are an SLE. That's that.

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    Just for the record, I never said Ezra was LSE. I only said that after reading DeAnte's post that it made sense why he could be LSE. However, I think I've already said a few times that I can easily see being valued, as I value it myself, which likely means that he does not value .

    I also see logic as a strength versus feeling, and most people would agree that he's extroverted, which I would say it's sometimes hard to tell with the things he says. He can be quite subjective at times. So who's not to say he has an introverted subtype? There you have it. 2 types left. He's either an SLE or a LIE, and I really don't know the guy that well. That and my subjective "intuition" about the two logic functions are a bit out of wack, having "creative" logic as an ILI. I do see Ezra often commenting on things making sense, and that seems like a thing to do, so my best guess is SLE. That and he thinks he's an SLE.

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