copying Banana Pancakes' poll!
Betas and Public Displays of Affection
copying Banana Pancakes' poll!
Last edited by glam; 04-28-2009 at 08:16 PM.
greater than 30 seconds?? How about greater than ONE second! I really dislike it. PDA feels like you either a) have zero self-control which is kinda disgusting b) have the need to flaunt your love for others which is insecure and weird c) have no respect for a public location as such (unless you're in the park and there's no one else around, in which case it doesn't really count as PDA because no one sees you. in that case it's fine)
When I see other people doing it I think the same thing: they're either disgustingly "in love" and need to get a room, or they have this need to advertise the FACT that they're in love and supremely happy and don't care what anyone else thinks. I dunno. It's just... unnecessary.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Well, please don't push what you think upon others. There are plenty of cultures where PDAs are absolutely common, for example. It's extremely arrogant to decide what's fine and what's not in this respect. I mean, okay, 30 seconds of tongue-kiss is a bit too much if made on a bus, let's say, but in my city it would be perfectly fine if done in a park with other people walking.Originally Posted by redbaron
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I was just describing how it made me feel and what it made me think. You're free to feel otherwise. I'm not saying it's morally wrong and should be outlawed. lol
IEI-Fe 4w3
I voted for don't care for it!
My boyfriend and I do engage in some slight PDA of course... but the description -- 30 seconds or more?! Ew... I get really uncomfortable with doing anything like that in public because I think people are watching (which they usually are!) - like Akra voiced. I also don't like watching OTHER people's PDA! It's just guh... I mean I agree with redbaron that it looks tacky and ostentatious - why do you need to display it ?
I read somewhere that the more truly loving couples usually (and this does not always apply obviously!) don't feel the need to express their "love" outwardly in public, among groups... besides the usual closeness, hugs, tiny smooches - this is as far as I'll go, yep.
I don't wanna gross people out, because I know I get grossed out when I see something that's better left for the privacy of one's own bedroom.
I can see how this would APPEAR to be appealing to Betas, the whole
thing coming in, like bitch I own you, let me show the world *MAKEOUT* ESTps might do? LOL that's a stereotype though... I'm guessing some INFps would enjoy this 'ownership' quality but personally, it can get to be a bit much... though if lead by a super confident ESTp, I wouldn't mind!
Fixed it for ya.I think, being a xx year old male, the stereotype applied in FULL force.
GEE SAME HERETouché. Possibly why I prefer women (and IEIs.)
We have so much in common.
Hey! Now that is too far. I mean, someone's gotta dig them ditches and dispose of that garbage ah??
Personality > Gender
You should expand beyond the meat heads and skirt chasers, then. I don't really blame ya though, girls sure do smell purty.Not much different in my eyes. I seem to enjoy the personalities of people of my own gender more.
I can just about take a few seconds of kissing in the street, and if it's another couple, even less.
I don't feel particularly uncomfortable (although there is a level of discomfort there which doesn't quite rival the feeling of kissing someone). It's primarily to do with etiquette. It's like you're boasting: "look, I have someone - you scum on the street do not".
what? I thought it was standing less than a meter away from someonecopying Banana Pancakes' poll! PDA is defined as "greater than 30 seconds of face suckage/fondling".
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
I think Denmark has got the right idea on this whole PDA thing
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWF4x01MkzE&fmt=18]YouTube - Police stops bicyclist WTF?[/ame]
I voted "yes", but when I think of PDA I don't think of making out or fondling each other or anything like that. I'd definitely feel uncomfortable if people were watching or hearing me doing something private like that. Still, I am very affectionate and like to be stuck to my S.O. like gum as much as possible
, so if PDA=showing affection (cuddling, holding hands, hugging, kiss on forehead or cheek or peck on the lips, etc), then I'm totally cool with it. I just don't feel the need to act like strangers in public or be cold towards one another and if I'm acting any differently from how I would typically act with that person, that's how it would feel to me.
I don't do it for the purpose of showing off. I agree that some couples do it for this reason and in that case there's obviously something wrong, something they are trying to cover up to themselves and others.
I disagree with the whole thing about it looking like you're rubbing your love in other people's faces. I mean, if I know that's not why I'm doing it, why would I care what other people think? If it makes them jealous that they don't have a significant other, then so be it. Why the hell would I go around trying to tone down or hide my happiness because someone else is miserable? Plus, if something like watching a couple be loving towards each other bothers someone, they obviously have issues to deal with. Is it going to be my fault if they then go home and eat 2 gallons of ice cream and get fat?
not necessarily. I DO have a significant other, and one who actually WANTS PDA. It's not about jealousy, it's just not my thing to express it in front of strangers. and it's not about toning down your happiness, it's about restraint and taste. and anyway, aren't you hotter for the person later if you've kept it bottled up inside of you for a bit while you're out and about? I mean, all that sexual tension.... :wink:
IEI-Fe 4w3
No, that's not what I meant. I was referring to a couple of comments made earlier in the thread (one by Ezra, I think) that gave that as one of the reasons they don't care for PDA. I didn't say the people that don't like to do it are jealous in any way. I was simply commenting on how the idea that others might think I'm rubbing it in isn't a valid reason to me. Restraint and taste have their place, but isn't that relative? To me, restraint means not going out and making out and being untasteful. Personally, I wouldn't even be inclined or tempted to do those things in the first place, so I see no need to restrain myself, per se. But I also see no need in restraining socially appropriate things that still allow me to show my affection, such as cuddling, etc. And I know what you mean about the sexual tension thing, but you know, that's something you can create even more by giving in just a tiny little bit and holding out on the rest. Give 'em a little taste and keep them wishing for more.
I voted "don't care" because I think I don't give a shit on what other people might be thinking... I do what I feel like doing... If others don't like what they see.. they can just look away.
I remember some "public guardians" (community police) telling me to "behave". I was just lying on a bench with my head resting in my girlfriend's lap. I complied but just because I don't like to put people in trouble (my GF in this case). If she would have been a SLE and minded the public guardians' involvement I would have probably not complied. Ticket or no ticket!
"What is love?"
"The total absence of fear," said the Master.
"What is it we fear?"
"Love," said the Master.
I chose Love
To avoid such sentiments, simply choose something a little less fashionable:my favorite bag has been accused of being ghetto
Within a week, you will notice others around you choosing the same accessory. Then people will be accused of being "glam".
hmmm, I went with neutral because I don't really care about PDA. If people do it in front of me, I just politely look away - I don't see it as offensive in and of itself (in most situation, obviously there are exceptions - there's a time and place for everything). Personally, the 'public' element of it doesn't really bother me at all - though where you are does matter. Like in a club, as long as knickers aren't coming off, it's pretty much fair game. But if the couple is hanging out with other people, well, it is a fairly exclusionary pasttime, so it is kind of rude to be sucking face when other people are trying to have a conversation with you. Overall, I just don't see what the big deal is...kissing is awesome! Lets just have fun.
allez cuisine!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA5xtHxfiTI]YouTube - PDA - Interpol[/ame]
yeah yeah, couldn't help myself.
allez cuisine!
I voted "yes", but when I think of PDA I don't think of making out or fondling each other or anything like that
I don't do it for the purpose of showing off. I agree that some couples do it feel for this reason and in that case there's obviously something wrong, something they are trying to cover up to themselves and others.
I disagree with the whole thing about it looking like you're rubbing your love in other people's faces. I mean, if I know that's not why I'm doing it, why would I care what other people think? If it makes them jealous that they don't have a significant other, then so be it. Why the hell would I go around trying to tone down or hide my happiness because someone else is miserable? Plus, if something like watching a couple be loving towards each other bothers someone, they obviously have issues to deal with. Is it going to be my fault if they then go home and eat 2 gallons of ice cream and get fat?
WORD. I love being affectionate everywhere, it's like if I totally adore the person I am with - I want to show them how I feel, & I love seeing people showing affection to each other. I always remember this couple I was stood next to at the airport a few years ago and they just had these massive melty smiles on their faces and were just standing there holding each other and randomly kissing each other on the face, lol it was so damn cute, they just seemed so happy.
But then like practically fucking each other in the middle of the street is skank and I feel that that shows like sexual insecurity/possessiveness lol.
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
+1WORD. I love being affectionate everywhere, it's like if I totally adore the person I am with - I want to show them how I feel, & I love seeing people showing affection to each other. I always remember this couple I was stood next to at the airport a few years ago and they just had these massive melty smiles on their faces and were just standing there holding each other and randomly kissing each other on the face, lol it was so damn cute, they just seemed so happy
But then like practically fucking each other in the middle of the street is skank and I feel that that shows like sexual insecurity/possessiveness lol
Just from my own experience, INFp, ESTps and ENFjs seem OK w/ making out in bars and street corners (weekend night sort of a thing). I would say the INFps were probably more open to whatever than the ENFj though.
However, this is probably a "time and place" thing though, because I highly doubt the Betas would be cool w/ making out in a well lit place like a grocery store or work.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Nice choice! (:
Er, chalk another one up for ESTps being more than fine with excessive PDA in public places. Ahem.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
John Muir
Then try this:
You won't just be accused of being ghetto; you will be ghetto!
Seems like it's done to prove something, suggesting that if you feel it, you must show it and everyone must see it or it doesn't exist.
EII
I think it would be helpful to also poll the personality type's response. I'm an ENFJ & I've been hanging out with an inspector and overall he seems to have no problems with PDA and I like it. Fe being my primary function I want to give an inspector love and I value love above all other things and I idealize social environments like France where these kinds of things are acceptable. I also notice the inspectors tendency to check out all cute women in the vicinity and I appreciate it. He has good instincts which I feel balances out my INFP side (model b) which I will post about in a separate thread.
Once, I was on the subway and a couple boarded. The train was mostly empty, but these two decided to sit in the seats right in front of me and suck the breath out of each other every three seconds. The silent railway car was brought to life by the sound of their squelching. The seats were all facing the same direction, and so I had no choice but to look at this display happening about two feet from my face. I exchanged several knowing glances with other passengers who observed the ordeal and sympathized with my inability to keep a straight face. The train quickly filled up and I soon found myself unable to find another seat. It was an awkward 20 minutes.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
New York City used to be more alive than it is now. It's more sterile and corporate now. It's lost some of its life. Timothy Leary warned to learn to control your eye, because whoever controls your eye also controls your mind. So we're more comfortable receiving messages about what kind of slave labor lingere or Congo poverty stricken electronics (which if we saw behind the marketing to what it really is we might not want it anymore) and we're embarassed to see two people totally fufilled with each other. We treat products like armor. We were supposed to arm ourselves against it. Did you know that Edward Bernays infused marketing with Freudian psychology last century? He was Freud's nephew. They found if they could appeal to our unconscious drives that marketing was very effective. To me it's sad to see people trade in real desire for other human beings (desire being part of the kind of culture I embrace even if sentimentally) and having it transmuted into products that on the production side creates suffering that nobody sees. Give me the bohemian lust and desire anyday...Sure it hurts people too, but it also empowers them and fills the and fufills them and completes them and is a catalyst for entire political movements and the greatest art we've ever seen and it's not the aspect of culture we should be embarassed about it's that we've traded these things in with reckless abandon and we've partitioned off our reality and we dont even know how to talk to people anymore.
I'm not sure I get the previous post, which is not to say there aren't important ideas to be gotten. I still love NYC and am uncomfortable when people are sucking face right in front of my own face. I like privacy, and most animals are wired to like it too (regardless of media). However, I think it's cute to see couples holding hands/cuddling. yay
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
America's New Trinity of Love: Dean, Brando, Presley by Jack Kerouac
[Written at the instigation of the two Helens, Weaver and Elliot 1957]
Love is sweeping the country.
While wars and riots rage all around the world, in a vortex that resembles the dying Dinosaur Age of Violence, here within her sweeter shores America is producing a Revolution of Love. Three young men of exceptional masculine beauty and compassion and sadness have been upraised by its reaching hands.
This is strange and it is good. Up to now the American Hero has always been on the defensive: he killed Indians and villains and beat up his rivals and surled. He has been good-looking but never compassionate except at odd moments and only in stock situations. Now the new American hero, as represented by the trinity of James Dean, Marlon Brando and Elvis Presley, is the image of compassion in itself. And this makes him more beautiful than ever. It is as though Christ and Buddha were about to come again with masculine love for the woman at last. All gone are the barriers of asceticism and the barriers of ancient anti-womanism that go deep into primitive religion. It is a Revolution of Love and it will become a Religion of Love. The Garden of Eden might come back in its pristine form. The old American Hero fought the Devil; the new American Hero knows that the Devil never existed except in the minds of anxiety. There will be no more tempting of the woman by the Devil and no banishment from the paradise on earth.
It's got to be. A Revolution of Love is the positive answer; banishment of war and the Bomb is only a negative answer. There have been Revolutions of Love before, accomplished always by some isolated individual like Cassanova, Valentino, Sinatra. But now the intensity and the need is such, that there are more than one. It's not a vain and self centered thing, but it spreads. This is implicit in the James Dean movie "Rebel Without A Cause" where, when the hero and the girl sneak off to make love in the empty mansion, leaving the desperate boy alone (Sal Mineo), and all the trouble takes place, Dean says: "We shouldnt have left him alone," the girl says "But I needed you," and Dean states "But he needed you too." This is child-like and innocent. "Suffer the little ones to come unto me." There is the need all around to be recognized and adored by some other human being, the need all around for kindness, for the ideal of love which does not exclude cruelty but is all-embracing, non-assertive, simply lovely. Not necessarily the Dionysion orgy but the tender communion.
As always when something new grows out of the groaning earth, this earth which is a recent event in the cosmic eternity of light, there are angry complaints raised from all stations. The dryer intellectuals complain that the adulation of the dead James Dean by thousands of American girls represents a kind of unhealthy necrophilia; they point out the fact that 1,000 fan letters a month are still being written to Dean as tho he were still alive, asking for his pictures and asking him to come back because they love him. "Even if you look bad and you're all cut up from your car-crash, come back anyway." Yet if Ste. Teresa can make us the holy promise that she will come back and shower the earth with roses forever, this belief in the immortal lovingness of James Dean by thousands of eager believing chicks is well-rooted in a reverential mystical tradition that has certainly never harmed the sleeping babe in his crib. It augurs well for the world that it will refuse to believe that in death endeth loveliness, or endeth enlightenment.
Elegant complainers say Marlon Brando is ill-dressed, vain, self-centred, Kowalski-Terry Malloy hoodlumish, irresponsible; they picture him as wandering away to leave his girl crying. Yet what is it he has?--that made a girl say "I just feel that Marlon Brando would know how to love me better than any man in the world, that he would go skipping down the street with me hand-in-hand, that he would do anything I asked him, and be kind. Because his soul is free and that's why he's so beautiful!"... Brando is indeed a free soul; his individual approach to his work as well as to his way of life bespeak a strong faith in himself as a man and as an American.
I voted neutral. I think public displays of affection are ok so long as they're performed tastefully (with consideration to the immediate environment) i.e. PDA are ok in large open spaces (parks), and in greetings and farewells etc. PDA are not ok in enclosed spaces (subway cars, small rooms), not ok if they're accompanied by "baby talk", especially not ok if they involve prolonged moaning, caressing, and mouth noises within a few meters of an innocent bystander.
This is Washington, D.C., not New York.
lol, perfect.I voted neutral. I think public displays of affection are ok so long as they're performed tastefully (with consideration to the immediate environment) i.e. PDA are ok in large open spaces (parks), and in greetings and farewells etc. PDA are not ok in enclosed spaces (subway cars, small rooms), not ok if they're accompanied by "baby talk"
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Actually, recent events have taught me that I do use PDA as a barometer of how a relationship is going.
So kissing hello, hugging, holding hands when walking - I think these are all healthy and almost expected in a relationship. When they don't happen, I start to think something is wrong. Or I at least judge the quality of the relationship on that basis.
allez cuisine!
It's interesting because Deltas are the assimilators, right? They socialize. They're kind of the final stage. They acclimate people to social expectations, but if we were in france you'd say something else. Deltas are programmed by the environment they live in. They draw from the culture. In France they've outlawed public displays of religious affiliation. They're a Beta or Gamma culture for sure, I think. The Deltas don't dictate culture there. Equality dictates culture and love is still more important and political participation is birth right.
Animals liking privacy? I think you're projecting human qualities onto animals. Some apes, for example, participate in orgies and they're the most pacifist type of ape. Animals don't revere privacy and they're often not monogamous either.
Ok well the Delta that posted is from NYC so I guess I got it mixed up, but regardless it'd be nice to have some commentary on the content of the post and not the city of origin, but whatever.
I don't disagree with most of what you said. The situation on the train was just so absurd. It wasn't the kissing itself that struck me. These people were right in front of my face. It was almost as if I were being given a private performance; there was something vaguely voyeuristic about the whole affair. Have you read Henri Murger's Scènes de la vie de bohème? If not, please do. It originates most of our mythology surrounding "la vie boheme" - except, the original bohemians had a wicked sense of humor that most of their modern counterparts unfortunately do not share.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
It depends. I think everyone takes bits and pieces of their culture to follow, depending on type, values, and other factors.
From my own experience, I tend to "rebel" against many cultural norms if I find them immoral/offensive or simply make me uncomfortable.
btw, if based on stereotypes, France is more SEI than anything else. A hedonistic culture that's all about pleasing the senses, Paris alone is very
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
i guess thats why your type is the corrector of the quadrant because you evaluate the customs instead of blindly espousing them to the masses.
thank you for the recommendation.
Lefty
ENFJ
4w5
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