SEIs & ESEs "Caring" types: your opinion on being chased? (ISFp, ESFj)

[buckland]

Just checking with the female caregivers in alpha, what is your position on being chased? I mean, i am all for the guy giving chase, but i met this and I think we are doing really well but she has had some bad experiences in her past and she says she has trust issues with men generally. I am typically bad at this stuff, but it sky rockets with this girl. She is remarkably forward which makes me think we are on track to something, but there is always that little something that makes me second guess myself. Guess the whole point of this rant is, female SFs, do you want to be chased? There is always this feeling I get from ESEs like they want to be looked at and lusted over (all girls want this, but it is a sensual brand with alpha that is difficult to describe) which I think is very attractive, and she is definitely pushing my buttons in that department, but I have no idea what she wants... I don't want to come over too strong and scare her away (LII saying this about ESE, who would have thought it?)

[Banana Pancakes]

caregiver is the chaser imo.

[buckland]

Even when the caregiver is a girl?

[Banana Pancakes]

Even when the caregiver is a girl?

Are you saying women can't pursue?

(yeah I know they don't actually do it...buh).

[buckland]

I know they do, just not sure i want to leave it up to the small chance that she is a "pursuer". All I know is that i waited too long with a previous girl, and i am not sure i want to do the same again. Just wanted to confirm that I am not taking on her role effectively.

[Banana Pancakes]

I know they do, just not sure i want to leave it up to the small chance that she is a "pursuer". All I know is that i waited too long with a previous girl, and i am not sure i want to do the same again. Just wanted to confirm that I am not taking on her role effectively.

Well if you want to pursue her do it. Your natural instinct is going to be best with your dual.

[DirectorAbbie]

I'm indifferent to being chased. I value persistance, but if I'm uninterested it's a waste of time.

[Brilliand]

caregiver is the chaser imo.

Extrovert is the chaser imo.

But she's already pushing your buttons... just let 'er push 'em. Pull back and ask her directly if you think she doesn't know what she's doing. :tongue:

[Banana Pancakes]

Extrovert is the chaser imo.

Have you not met Se creatives?

[buckland]

So I told her, but she seems to be rather shocked by it all. She has incredibly low self esteem, which is strange because she has this amazing voice and loves singing in public plus is this incredibly outgoing person. I would never have pegged her as such, I guess something in my brain can't separate shy and low self esteem. She said that she is not worth the care, which may well be a nice way of her saying no, but i do think that there was more to it. I pulled all of this out at an incredibly bad moment as she had to leave, so there is a much larger conversation awaiting... I very much feel like the caregiver in some respects right now, telling her all her positive attributes and trying to pull her out of this funk, at least in the emotional department. We were in a restaurant with some of her friends and she was the one suggesting stuff for me to try and whether the food was too spicy. Alpha SFs can't turn the pa/maternal switch off, even when in the dumps. Really strange, this stuff would normally drain me, but I guess , good or bad drives me. Plus she is hot!

Tiny bit of a rant, but it now allows the cogs upstairs to run un-hindered. Now, it's a waiting game

[buckland]

Have you not met Se creatives?

That is true, though I am not as sure about as I am about in this regard.

[buckland]

Was talking to my ESE friend about this whole thing. Been trying to get him into socionics for ages but...well it's a losing battle. In any case, he has been describing himself and his failed relationships and it's remarkable how accurate socionics is. Was telling me how much he likes giving gifts and carrying out little gestures out for his current interest and how very few girls seem to appreciate it to the level he wants them to (there is more to it...). Socionics is scarily good sometimes.

In any case, he was telling me that he really likes reassurance, and in fact does not really care (or want) gifts from his s.o. (not sure how that translates across the genders). All he wants is someone to need him, and persistence in that regard is highly needed. Constant reminders of why someone is with him and that she wants him. So it seems that the extroverts seem to expect a fair bit from the introverts. Beginning to build a picture right now that ESEs need admiration for them to feel loved, someone to worship the ground they walk on almost and this causes them to pour in more effort. The aftermath of all that positive reinforcement must be glorious. I forget my initial point, damn !

[buckland]

+1

i think extroverts initiate platonic conversations and such, but otherwise it varies.

What's the expectation across in gamma? I always have this picture that the INTp would hound SEE until they are recognised. If anyone has watched eastbound and down, the relationship between Kenny (main character) and Stevie (the teacher) is a caricature of how I picture this relationship. Not sure about the rationals, the 2 male ISFjs I know were both chased. Is that accurate?

[Simon Ssmall]

Being "chased" for me would probably be a turn-off or at least has been up to this point. You never know though, maybe just the wrong people .

[Creepy-bg]

I love being chased and to be honest, that's about the only way it's going to happen for me. Although being caught is more fun If I'm chasing I can't help but think that she doesn't want to be caught/isn't interested and I'm wasting my time and energy, so I stop.

[Banana Pancakes]

Was talking to my ESE friend about this whole thing. Been trying to get him into socionics for ages but...well it's a losing battle. In any case, he has been describing himself and his failed relationships and it's remarkable how accurate socionics is. Was telling me how much he likes giving gifts and carrying out little gestures out for his current interest and how very few girls seem to appreciate it to the level he wants them to (there is more to it...). Socionics is scarily good sometimes.

In any case, he was telling me that he really likes reassurance, and in fact does not really care (or want) gifts from his s.o. (not sure how that translates across the genders). All he wants is someone to need him, and persistence in that regard is highly needed. Constant reminders of why someone is with him and that she wants him. So it seems that the extroverts seem to expect a fair bit from the introverts. Beginning to build a picture right now that ESEs need admiration for them to feel loved, someone to worship the ground they walk on almost and this causes them to pour in more effort. The aftermath of all that positive reinforcement must be glorious. I forget my initial point, damn !

lol never seen an ILI who gave a shit. They present a challenge for SEE by being the assholes they are. The SEE uses their Fi creativeness and wants to build a relationship.

[munenori2]

I love being chased and to be honest, that's about the only way it's going to happen for me. Although being caught is more fun If I'm chasing I can't help but think that she doesn't want to be caught/isn't interested and I'm wasting my time and energy, so I stop.

Same here lol. The closest I get to chasing is probably just putting out the vibe that I like someone, being extra nice, giving gifts or doing things and seeing how she responds. Anytime I feel the pressure that I need to do any direct chasing I worry I've misread things and pull back to either watch for signs or totally mindfuck myself into confusion trying to make sense of things.

[Creepy-male]

Insightful.

Quoth an ESE friend, "You're a nice guy, Gul. We're going to make that workable."

[buckland]

Seems like the alpha SFs are the ones to be chased. Strange, considering they are the more socially aware of the group. I am surprised alpha couples even exist Would it be right then boiling it down to the SFs seduce (I know that is not the right phrasing with the males, sorry, but it's all I have right now) and the NTs "pounce". I can feel the growing within me already.

[buckland]

Same here lol. The closest I get to chasing is probably just putting out the vibe that I like someone, being extra nice, giving gifts or doing things and seeing how she responds. Anytime I feel the pressure that I need to do any direct chasing I worry I've misread things and pull back to either watch for signs or totally mindfuck myself into confusion trying to make sense of things.

Does that not count as chasing, or courting at the very least? I mean, if I started receiving such from a girl, that would set some alarm bells off. I guess at that point though, I would prefer to be the one asking out rather than the other way round.

[munenori2]

Does that not count as chasing, or courting at the very least? I mean, if I started receiving such from a girl, that would set some alarm bells off. I guess at that point though, I would prefer to be the one asking out rather than the other way round.

I guess I don't consider it to be officially chasing, which is what gives me the hangup. lol, what I mean I suppose is that what I was talking about is just me being myself and letting things happen, doing what comes naturally. Anytime the mindset takes over that I need to or should make something happen, that's bad news.

[Creepy-male]

^ what mune said.

I think this might also be related to Nines not liking to stick their necks out, so to speak.

We need to get Bee in.

EDIT

I should elaborate. Nines don't want to screw with that integrated feeling (like a moon jelly drifting in the ocean). Actually moving against the world in any way is a big no-no.

Though, as sp/sx, I keep what I want in mind, even if I try to not let that out. What's currently happening to me is a great example of the conscious restraint dynamic playing merry hell with everything. Being a Nine, I'm needing to withdraw while it all happens.

As to *what* is happening, no, I'm not telling.

Later thought: there's still a possibility I'm actually a Seven, and none of this information is actually of any use p:

[Brilliand]

Seems like the alpha SFs are the ones to be chased. Strange, considering they are the more socially aware of the group. I am surprised alpha couples even exist Would it be right then boiling it down to the SFs seduce (I know that is not the right phrasing with the males, sorry, but it's all I have right now) and the NTs "pounce". I can feel the growing within me already.

Static types are the chasers, perhaps?

"Seducing" seems like a Feeler thing. Combining those, an Fi ego would pursue via seduction, whereas an Fe ego would seduce to invite pursuit.

Except, I'm sure we're violating the Russian conception of ESE here...

[buckland]

Static types are the chasers, perhaps?

"Seducing" seems like a Feeler thing. Combining those, an Fi ego would pursue via seduction, whereas an Fe ego would seduce to invite pursuit.

Except, I'm sure we're violating the Russian conception of ESE here...

Can't really say I have read much on many of the dichotomies. Any decent links?

I am not sure we're really violating much of the ESE image painted, reading through wikisocion male/female description, there are loads of hints on the seductive element, especially on the female section. At least that's what I read into it.

[buckland]

I guess I don't consider it to be officially chasing, which is what gives me the hangup. lol, what I mean I suppose is that what I was talking about is just me being myself and letting things happen, doing what comes naturally. Anytime the mindset takes over that I need to or should make something happen, that's bad news.

That sounds like what i would expect. Out of curiosity though, how does it usually pan out with you being the guy? Is it you who eventually makes the move?

[Brilliand]

Can't really say I have read much on many of the dichotomies. Any decent links?

Static types are the ones with Pe ego elements (Ne and Se). These seem to be the best for acting on a target, i.e. chasing someone.

See Wikisocion's dichotomy list - I'm not too fond of the descriptions, but it includes their theoretical meanings.

[Creepy-bg]

I guess I don't consider it to be officially chasing, which is what gives me the hangup. lol, what I mean I suppose is that what I was talking about is just me being myself and letting things happen, doing what comes naturally. Anytime the mindset takes over that I need to or should make something happen, that's bad news.

yup. I'd consider it flirting/showing interest. after reading what I wrote I decided I didn't like the reason I gave for not chasing. It isn't because I decide I'm wasting effort, lol I'll waste effort all day. If the girl doesn't show obvious interest I'd feel like I was forcing/pushing myself on them, which I don't do.

The funny thing is that if they don't show interest I sometimes go into another mode where I do flirt and push just for fun. Not because I'm expecting success, but just as idk another kind of game. (like I do with Bee )

[Creepy-male]

The funny thing is that if they don't show interest I sometimes go into another mode where I do flirt and push just for fun. Not because I'm expecting success, but just as idk another kind of game. (like I do with Bee )

It's a Fe thing. My ESE friend flirts with girls for kicks.

[Banana Pancakes]

oh come on guys. Seriously you want the relationship-incompetent alpha NT to do the pursuing??

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

[Creepy-male]

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

Article about male SEIs

[Brilliand]

oh come on guys. Seriously you want the relationship-incompetent alpha NT to do the pursuing??

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

Well, if you type them correctly, your relationship incompetence shouldn't make much difference anyway.

[munenori2]

oh come on guys. Seriously you want the relationship-incompetent alpha NT to do the pursuing??

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

I think the thing with all this is that it's very easy for both parties to just chill for a while, hang out and have fun, no pressure, until someone grows the balls and makes a move.

[Creepy-bg]

oh come on guys. Seriously you want the relationship-incompetent alpha NT to do the pursuing??

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

I don't expect them to do the pursuing. They just need to show interest so that I know I'm not freaking them out or pushing something that they don't want. IDk I really don't like the idea of a developing relationship in terms of chasing or pursuing. To me that makes it seem as though it's being forced into existance or like somebody is playing games (games can be okay, but not when it comes to the relationship itself). I like something that grows naturally and seemingly without effort.

[Brilliand]

Brilliand, what system are you using for your new subtype?

Nothing I'm prepared to defend. I'll remove it from my signature until I have a chance to think it through properly.

[buckland]

What if the alpha NT is really really infatuated? Much more than the object of his/her infatuation. Then you have to do something. Apple is not going to fall in your mouth while you're sitting under the tree.

In such a situation, I think I would probably try and keep away from her and wait for this to die down rather than actively try and make her like me. That kind of chase involves way too much effort considering she's not the last living woman.

[buckland]

oh come on guys. Seriously you want the relationship-incompetent alpha NT to do the pursuing??

Eh, culture demands that the male do it anyway. *sigh* I don't want to pursue, I sux at it.

Right there with you.

I know that most of the "relationship groundwork" in my previous relationship had been done by the girl, that I was so wound up that it was either pursue or explode.

[munenori2]

I don't expect them to do the pursuing. They just need to show interest so that I know I'm not freaking them out or pushing something that they don't want. IDk I really don't like the idea of a developing relationship in terms of chasing or pursuing. To me that makes it seem as though it's being forced into existance or like somebody is playing games (games can be okay, but not when it comes to the relationship itself). I like something that grows naturally and seemingly without effort.

There we go.

[pumpkin]

its not about the infantile pursuing us.. im a caregiver and sometimes i do the chasing, usually goes boths ways they say something that just constantly plays over and over and over again, or they do some kind of teasing then im intrigued. its kind of like a game a child running away from their parent looking back knowing that they might get caught thats how i see it.. so yea the caregiver can be the chaser, but the infantile does something to draw us is imo.

[intjguy]

All girls like to chase. In fact, this is the greatest upper hand in the dating game. How can she reject you if she's chasing you? To you psych majors, SHE CAN'T! (muahaha, our turn).


On another hand, why would you want a girl with trust issues or low self esteem in the first place? Don't us INTjs have enough emotional scars as it is? When you're arguing with her, you'll be arguing with a stubborn demon (from her past). Think about it.

By the way, I would like to read how her low-self esteem manifests itself so I can help identify this syndrome.

[buckland]

This ship has effectively sailed. I met her through my friend in uni and even he noted that she was likely not it. She does have some stuff that she needs to get over. I am still interested in this topic generally though. There's another girl ( as well; since i learned about socionics i have been actively pursuing this type) who has been "it" for almost a year no and she seems to expect me to chase her, but it may be too late in the game right now. Too many mixed messages being recieved from her which i think is some form of self-protection but I am incredibly bad at reading these things. Funnily enough, her and her "crew" have read 'he's just not that into you' or whatever it's called and seems like that book is going to make my life harder as she percieves my lack of action as a correlate to my interest level. I tried to pull away from her for a bit (been more than a month since we last spoke) to try and clear my head as the more time I spent with her, the more frazzled I was becoming. Not sure if this came across as rejection on her part, but I feel a lot healthier now.

This is interesting. When I like a boy, I want him to chase me, but if he doesn't do it then against better advice from others I typically will pursue him (which rarely works out for me). Therefore, I've found it better to let the guy do the chasing; that way I'm sure he's really into me. Additionally, as a female I feel it's most romantic when the boy is doing the chasing.

I have heard this quite a lot. Here's the thing though, I almost never state my intentions to a girl on the first meeting as I need to know them a bit better. This then means that the whole friend thing comes into play and that makes chasing a lot harder. I think at that point, it is quite difficult to discern the difference between true signs and normal affection. Any pointers on what to look out for?

Yes. I think ESE's like the LII to pursue. It's very cute.

It's cute on your side, but though it may not necessarily be visible to you, there are few things that screw me up as much as this whole territory.