1. ## Rational ILI-INTp?

I'm sorry if this question has come up time and time again, that I still consider myself new to Socionics:

If an ILIs subtype is , doesn't that make him a rational? Technically speaking, it make sense!

2. What is your definition of 'rational' ?

There are several definitions and usages of that word on this forum and in general.
for example:

- The Rational club consist of all xNTx types

- Rationals are types that are 'in their head' with 'few feeling', so Ti leading types are also
considered rational.

- Rational: being able to reason logically

The subtype description of gulenko or medgved (I forgot which one) says:
'the ILI -Te subtype is a respectable rationalizer'. Meaning 'reasoner'

Maybe that's what you were looking for...

And by the way what would you call an Intuitive subtype?

3. No clearly I mean rational as in J, versus irrational is P. If an INTp has the subtype, then he wouldn't actually be irrational.

4. Originally Posted by polikujm
No clearly I mean rational as in J, versus irrational is P. If an INTp has the subtype, then he wouldn't actually be irrational.
Ah yes, how could I have forgot. rational=judging

Subtypes don't have that much effect. The Te type, does have a somewhat more robotic and fast movement when moving, but in the end he still has that inert lazy IxxP temperament.

Although my following explanation might not be the most theoretic correct, it is practical:

Ni subtype = 90% Ni / 10% Te (very irrational)
Te subtype = 70% Ni / 30% Te (still mostly irrational)

Maybe this is something you like to read, and useful for deciding your own subtype:

ILI subtypes - Wikisocion

5. @Polikujm

If you are speaking of subtypes then both Te INTp and Ni INTp are "irrational"

Irrationality is caused by having a field element for both your mode and agenda (Ni INTp Ni mode Fi agenda) or having an object element for both (Te INTp Te mode Se agenda)

I will direct you to this thread, because Steve and I explain it there: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...relations.html

and this post by Steve especially to understand subtypes: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/510524-post14.html

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Here are my posts if you dont feel like reading through the thread

The type in question was Te INTp here also:

*The following is my "humble" opinion, so take it or leave it*

*Also I have pretentiously begun using spivak pronouns when referring to gender neutral third person singular*

Ti ENTp has Ti mode (leading), Ne is the utility (creative), Si is the agenda, and Fe is the activation.

The Ti ENTp's main role in society (caused by eir role in eir family unit during early childhood) is what I call the "Architect". The reason why I call em this is because, eir main orientation of perception is Ti, which basically organizes the world and things into a clear, defined, and categorical framework, sorta like a blueprint. But eir agenda is Si. Types want to use their mode to produce actions which affect their agenda.

So I, being Ti ENTp systematize reality, categorizing everything, etc. and I use this to produce Si related things like alternate worlds, artwork, organic sytems, and even aesthetically pleasing things. Steve, for instance, is a muscian, and has told me how it stems from his Si agenda. The agenda is like a sandbox. I really love games like Spore in which I can play around and make lots of different forms, creatures, systems.

Because both my mode and agenda are "field" elements, I can easily slide from one to the other, without any major shift in perceptual cognition. This has led me to become fluid in my thoughts/behavior and I would rather avoid obstacles than confront them. I want fluid progression and am "obstacle-phobic". When your "Project Block" (Mode-Agenda) goes object-object or field-field, I call this "Homo-productive". When it goes object-field or field-object I call this "Hetero-productive"

Homo-productive types are commonly referred to as "irrational" and Hetero-productive types as "rational". This is because the hetero types have to make mental switches from seeing things as objects/fields to the opposite more often than homo types (Dont be a dick). Homo types glide along the field-field or object-object track happily specializing and are sorta of "lazy". Hetero's are more active mentally, requiring lots of effort, making em more controlled and stable (in thought and indirectly in behavior).

So temperament is more complicated in a way. Maybe I'll expand later.

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You did translate correctly. Te INTp's have that functional order.

What happens is that you use the mode to take in reality, like all the elements, but its your main way to.

Types are driven to "produce" with the agenda.

I call the Mode-Agenda the "Project-block" because it is the focal point of that type's projects, interests, and general activities throughout life.

Types want to produce a tangible product of their agenda element. Meaning that they want to use their Mode to segway into creating agenda output, if that makes sense. Of course you use the elements as passive input filters, but the function which is a cognitive space, or subsystem, if you will, is in this case oriented to output. You want to make your agenda "come alive"

So like I said, Ti ENTp's like to make systems which organically/fluidly operate or grow. We have interest in things like macro-evolutionary theory (Richard Dawkins), and games like Spore (Will Wright - Ti ENTp) exemplify our desire to design settings and environments which physically morph and evolve. Even liguistics is a point of interest because it combines mulitple language systems, their divergence, and a seething, almost biological growth (think memetics). I like making up my own languanges and declensions lol often for worldbuilding stuff I do.

Fe ESFj's are of course Fe mode. They sense the converging, twisting, and "colorful" Fe leylines, which they follow or trace backwards, gleaning subtle information, often relating to social situations, due to the challenge and variety this type can find there. But you'll notice that they are very organized, concerned over making sure they are tidy and rule obeying at the work place. Or at least, they want to clarify and make order out of the objects in the field of their environment/workplace/home. This type is concerned with creating a physical manifestation of Ti.

Yes, I diverge from Model A.

Hope that helps =)

6. Thanks for that explanation Archon, but I am quite sure that when one has a subtype of a usual creative function, it means they use their creative function more than their base. How I remember hearing it time and time again was that if I were an INTp-, that would actually mean my use is more creative, however I doubt it means that and roles are switched. That would make for rationality, I'm pretty certain. I don't think any roles get switched, I think one of the ego roles are just valued more than the other.

7. Originally Posted by polikujm
Thanks for that explanation Archon, but I am quite sure that when one has a subtype of a usual creative function, it means they use their creative function more than their base. How I remember hearing it time and time again was that if I were an INTp-, that would actually mean my use is more creative, however I doubt it means that and roles are switched. That would make for rationality, I'm pretty certain. I don't think any roles get switched, I think one of the ego roles are just valued more than the other.
Exactly.

( if roles got switched, you would be a ENTj )

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