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Thread: Weak Si & Bodily States

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Weak Si & Bodily States

    Those with weak Si - especially Si in the superego - please tell me about your experiences with your own bodily states with regards to your sensations of food, drink, drugs, sex etc.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I'm Si-role.

    I don't really have problems appreciating, or commenting on, pleasant Si input - eating good food, getting happily drunk, getting massages, choosing nice clothes and furniture... The best example I can think of is my relationship with food. A lot of my friends are Si-valuing, and drag me out to gourmet events and bake me cookies, so I guess I'm used to using Si, if kind of artificially. It's not a natural state of mind for me though - on some basic level I think, "Right, I'm about to eat something nice, I have to pay attention to what it does to me." Then every other day I'll eat fast food and not really see a problem with it.

    What I do have problems with is noticing, or doing things to alleviate, unpleasant Si input. If I get injured, I might register a slight discomfort in my left hand, and then ten minutes later realise I've bled all over my clothes and my thumb hurts like hell. If I'm in a cold room, I'll think, "Wow, it's really cold today!" and hours later, I'll be numb and my fingers will be frozen but I won't see the point in moving, because it's not interfering with my work, only how I'm feeling. I only feel the need to deal with the problem if it's impacting on other things - like if I'm too tired to think clearly.
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    Sort of similar to octopuslove, but more exaggerated, probably.

    I like nice sensations, nice flavours and all that jazz -- I mean who wouldn't? -- and I like going to nice restaurants and sometimes when I'm in the library, bored out my mind by the 100th hour of trying to understand the scope of the duty for procedural fairness, I'll write about how I want to go home, curl up with a nice cup of chai and maybe work my way through a few favourite dishes and all that -- and I'm incredibly sensitive skin to skin -- most of my senses actually, though they don't always work the way they should (like, I have really fantastic hearing, but I can't seem to always get it to work like normal people hearing, so I can hear people whispering three rooms away and yet completely miss what someone is saying from a foot or two away from me) --- and god, I love the warm soft buzz of being tipsy -- but as much as I love nice things, when I'm busy, I can live for days on water, museli and apples (and coffee!) because that's all I have time for/all I have the energy to contemplate. Sensory pleasures are something that I think about if I have time -- as enjoyable as they are, they're not really priorities. And if there's too much focusing on it, I just want to scream: ok, enough of that already -- can't you're -- well, you're becoming like Hobbits?

    The worst thing about Si PoLR is that I can manifest this incredible disbelief at 'weak' people -- I sort of expect people to be masters of their sense and to never be beholden to them, so I sort of expect people to keep doing things, despite headache and pain and hunger and am sort vaguely horrified or aghast when someone puts their physical sensations first (like asking a group to stop because they've got a headache) -- or even mentioning their physical state. I sort of feel not that you should push on, but that's incomprehensible and shameful to not push on -- so I'm never the first person to demand a food break, even if I'm starving and I will keep going even when I feel like I'm about to drop dead sometimes, just because I don't want to be 'weak'. I even mock people for feeling the cold sometimes (sorry idolatrie!) -- not because I am this physically indefatigable beast or anything (wouldn't that be a laugh) but I feel like not letting my physical state determining what I can accomplish is important, so I either don't notice my physical state or I actively try and block it out as much as possible -- and I expect people around me to be capable of doing that even better than I can. I remember last year during my thesis, there was this period where I worked through extreme physical exhaustion, where I would routinely pause in the middle of frenetic typing to throw up because my body was under so much stress and yet I would immediately resume the same speed, without pause or much rest.
    ()
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    Well at work there were two EIEs who talked really loudly in the office. I'm sure people around them would've loved to tell them off.
    Then there was another EIE who would tell me he hadn't eaten a single thing all day (and he told me this at 3pm in the afternoon).
    Then there were another 2 EIEs who had these considerably long fake nails....and considering they were typing a lot of the day, i'd imagine they would've been quite hard to type with.
    Some of these EIEs would have really oddly matched outfits. The two younger girls looked extremely put together, sort of overdoing it a bit.
    Yup were a lot of EIEs in the HR place I worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Sort of similar to octopuslove, but more exaggerated, probably.

    I like nice sensations, nice flavours and all that jazz -- I mean who wouldn't? -- and I like going to nice restaurants and sometimes when I'm in the library, bored out my mind by the 100th hour of trying to understand the scope of the duty for procedural fairness, I'll write about how I want to go home, curl up with a nice cup of chai and maybe work my way through a few favourite dishes and all that -- and I'm incredibly sensitive skin to skin -- most of my senses actually, though they don't always work the way they should (like, I have really fantastic hearing, but I can't seem to always get it to work like normal people hearing, so I can hear people whispering three rooms away and yet completely miss what someone is saying from a foot or two away from me) --- and god, I love the warm soft buzz of being tipsy -- but as much as I love nice things, when I'm busy, I can live for days on water, museli and apples (and coffee!) because that's all I have time for/all I have the energy to contemplate. Sensory pleasures are something that I think about if I have time -- as enjoyable as they are, they're not really priorities. And if there's too much focusing on it, I just want to scream: ok, enough of that already -- can't you're -- well, you're becoming like Hobbits?

    The worst thing about Si PoLR is that I can manifest this incredible disbelief at 'weak' people -- I sort of expect people to be masters of their sense and to never be beholden to them, so I sort of expect people to keep doing things, despite headache and pain and hunger and am sort vaguely horrified or aghast when someone puts their physical sensations first (like asking a group to stop because they've got a headache) -- or even mentioning their physical state. I sort of feel not that you should push on, but that's incomprehensible and shameful to not push on -- so I'm never the first person to demand a food break, even if I'm starving and I will keep going even when I feel like I'm about to drop dead sometimes, just because I don't want to be 'weak'. I even mock people for feeling the cold sometimes (sorry idolatrie!) -- not because I am this physically indefatigable beast or anything (wouldn't that be a laugh) but I feel like not letting my physical state determining what I can accomplish is important, so I either don't notice my physical state or I actively try and block it out as much as possible -- and I expect people around me to be capable of doing that even better than I can. I remember last year during my thesis, there was this period where I worked through extreme physical exhaustion, where I would routinely pause in the middle of frenetic typing to throw up because my body was under so much stress and yet I would immediately resume the same speed, without pause or much rest.
    It's kind of like this, although the second part is slightly different for me. I know I have very good endurance to lack of physical comfort and to cold, heat, etc, so I know I can lead people on with this, when they're exhaused I can take up their load, or their work, or help them etc etc. however, I have to take care not to overdo it (and I'm not good at knowing when I'm overdoing it or not), of course. But probably I'm slightly less Ni, since I'd never put my health on the verge in order to complete a paper; I can go a bit with sleeping less, I can easily eat basic stuff in order not to waste money that I will need later, though, stuff like that; or I can keep on going uphill, when I'm biking, even if it hurts quite badly (I notice that many of the best climbers (in cycling) are Ni-Se peak, maybe there's a connection).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Food
    I have an excellently developped sense of taste, that allows me to naturally cook the best meals anyone ever tasted. Unfortunately I don't care much about it, and cook about only once every 2 years.
    But that's because you're nordic
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    But probably I'm slightly less Ni, since I'd never put my health on the verge in order to complete a paper; I can go a bit with sleeping less, I can easily eat basic stuff in order not to waste money that I will need later, though, stuff like that.
    Yeah I agree with all that as well -- its very easy for me to forego 'little pleasures' if I'm saving myself for something later. With putting my health on the line -- it's not something I can stop because I just can't really shake it. I sort of -- even though I'm aching and fatigued and actually throwing up, I don't really feel it -- not until whatever I'm doing is over and then I just...collapse. Exams, competitions -- anything I need to 'focus' on -- I just defer all sensory information for later. The number of times I've finished something -- anything, including artwork I was working on -- and either felt my legs start to shake and my strength start to drain, or simply be unable to stand, shaking from exhaustion -- and yet, until the breakdown point, I don't really feel a thing -- mostly just numb and like there's this buzzing in my head that keeps me going.
    ()
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I even mock people for feeling the cold sometimes (sorry idolatrie!)


    Two people - both females - in the last week or so, one a definitely EIE and another potential EIE, have called me and another sensor (probably Delta ST, although I can't tell for sure at this point) respectively a "pussy" for wanting to go inside because it was cold.

    Quote Originally Posted by shakealittle View Post
    Then there was another EIE who would tell me he hadn't eaten a single thing all day (and he told me this at 3pm in the afternoon).
    Haha, my EIE housemate is just like this. I'll get home at 5pm, and I'll see they're cooking something and say "bit early for dinner, isn't it?" and he'll say "I haven't eaten all day; I had a funsize chocolate bar at 8am".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Not sure what you are asking...? Bodily states.... ehum??? How can I explain without being too graphic?
    lol, you don't have to answer systematically - they were just ideas for activities wherein we as human beings experience various sensations.

    Nonetheless, what I mean when I said "sex" was how you experience it; that is, how it feels to you (if it does actually feel). So, exactly the same as with food, drink, and the rest.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    This is a great topic, Ezra.

    I admit, I have almost no idea what my body feels/needs at any given moment.

    E.g.

    * Drinking too much beer or soda... Forgetting I'm doing it... Conversely, becoming dehydrated b/c haven't had a thing to drink all day.

    * Eating large amounts when not hungry... Or not eating b/c forget... Eating strange foods at strange times.

    * sometimes if I see a benzo lying around, I'll take it just for lulz... i've done a lot of drugs--and perhaps the reason the experiences have been positive for me is I've always been focused on the psychological-growth aspects of them rather than the physical manifestations.

    * temp... my estp mom always asks me, "aren't you cold?" "no." she will be shivering, and i will not notice the temp myself.

    * sex... the sensors i know say they get off on the physical sensations... i don't... for me, it's the emotional connection... which makes sex a byproduct rather than an end in itself... during sex, i am very rarely thinking about the physical feeling.

    * emotional pain is something I like to get into and sort out... physical pain... I'm either too sensitive, (e.g. i'll yell when someone sticks me with a needle,) or--i know it sounds macho and bullshit--but things like training for sports, i love... because i don't focus on the physical pain... it's almost like the pain other ppl feel doesn't exist... this is why i'm good in fights... someone could beat the hell out of me and i would not be focused enough on the pain to know.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Ezra, my friend is Si 6th function and is a very picky eater. He won't eat from certain supermarkets and doesn't like others to see him eat. He is fascinated that I enjoy my food so much and this seems to encourage him to enjoy it for what it is when he is around me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Why would that be? I've lived in Italy, too, and the emphasis on food and cooking and quality is in no way more typical of Italians, I'd rather say the opposite. Some of the world's best chefs are Scandinavian. :wink:
    I'm living in Scandinavia, and in my experience it's much less likely for a scandinavian girl (or guy) to cook on a daily basis, while in Italy we always cook the dinner. And the emphasis on food and cooking quality is definitely much more typical of Italians, c'mon, it's clear to everybody that has been in both places. Of course, this has nothing to do with who will be the best chef.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Hmm... Not sure WHERE exactly you live, but that's definitely not the case where I live. I'd say the emphasis in Italy is on the SOCIAL setting, while the emphasis in Norway is on quality of the food. I don't even agree Italians always cook, while we always do (well... my husband, that is...). I have to admit that Milano is a big and stressed city, so it's probably not representative for all of Italy, and I have an ESE mother, so my family is probably not representative for all Norwegians... I like Italian food, though. And fish is better here. :wink:
    Mmm yes then in Norway the situation I think is better (I'm in Denmark), there is a norwegian girl I share kitchen with and she cooks everyday and always does quite nice stuff, I can see it. But yes Milan is not the best place to go for a good dinner, quite expensive and also far from the sea and the fields, so not much fresh food. Of course, Laks and Sild are much better in scandinavia but in port-towns there's good fish in Italy too, of course though, 90 percent of the cities in Norway are port-cities, thus the fish will be always very fresh...
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    ... .. .
    Last edited by inumbra; 04-27-2009 at 09:27 PM.

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    One common theme I've noticed in XIEs I know is an ocd hyper focus on superficial cleanliness.

    It's like the combination of EJ insane constant movement with a general incompetence at Si makes them go crazy if their bodies or surroundings aren't absolutely clean.

    As an example, an EIE I know was telling me about a special bar of soap he has for cleaning out his butthole when he showers. I was just standing there going "uh...tmi...and also are you insane?" He's a complete slob though if he isn't being obsessive about cleaning his room/washing his hair/etc.

    My LIE mother MUST go through a cycle of cleaning the house once a week, doing the same sequence, even though half the time it isn't necessary. Meanwhile areas of the house that aren't in her sequence are filthy.

    It's like they're way overcompensating for their weakness but still kinda suck at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    One common theme I've noticed in XIEs I know is an ocd hyper focus on superficial cleanliness.

    It's like the combination of EJ insane constant movement with a general incompetence at Si makes them go crazy if their bodies or surroundings aren't absolutely clean.

    As an example, an EIE I know was telling me about a special bar of soap he has for cleaning out his butthole when he showers. I was just standing there going "uh...tmi...and also are you insane?" He's a complete slob though if he isn't being obsessive about cleaning his room/washing his hair/etc.

    My LIE mother MUST go through a cycle of cleaning the house once a week, doing the same sequence, even though half the time it isn't necessary. Meanwhile areas of the house that aren't in her sequence are filthy.

    It's like they're way overcompensating for their weakness but still kinda suck at it.
    You know, if you don't clean, it doesn't mean that others that do are overcompensating

    By the way, how do you "not" feel sensations during sex? I mean, if you're horny, how is that possible?
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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You know, if you don't clean, it doesn't mean that others that do are overcompensating
    It's not the act of cleaning, it's the WAY they clean. Too much effort in some areas, and far from enough in others. An Si type just naturally keeps things clean...they're the magic fairies who keep everything shiny and put away.

    Oh and another vote for the inappropriate loudness when talking. LIEs make me want to run from the area when they're just saying "hi". They always sound like they're yelling. EIEs are a little better because of the Fe, but it's still just too much INTENSITY. Can't a brother relax without your loud incessant talking?
    Last edited by Banana Pancakes; 04-28-2009 at 04:17 PM.
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    Yes, I definitely talk too loud, I know it. I kind of try to tone it down when I notice, but often I don't notice at all.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Si - The eating dynamics of blankets of cookie fields

    or to summarize this thread:


    BS


    *edit: Due to a technicality that Ezra specified "bodily states" I will let this slide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Si - The eating dynamics of blankets of cookie fields
    MMM....cookie fields!

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Still don't understand how I can answer more than that without going into details I don't feel like going into.
    You really don't have to. Basically, Justin's answer was a good representation of the kind of thing I'm looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Ezra, my friend is Si 6th function and is a very picky eater. He won't eat from certain supermarkets and doesn't like others to see him eat. He is fascinated that I enjoy my food so much and this seems to encourage him to enjoy it for what it is when he is around me.
    That's interesting, because I know EIEs who, while picky, are picky in a good way, and they actually do like good food; they have a big appreciation for it.

    On the other hand, Mr Saturn just eats anything. I don't think he really enjoys food, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    As an example, an EIE I know was telling me about a special bar of soap he has for cleaning out his butthole when he showers.
    Brilliant. I know what you mean. I've noticed this OCDness as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    Oh and another vote for the inappropriate loudness when talking. LIEs make me want to run from the area when they're just saying "hi". They always sound like they're yelling. EIEs are a little bitter because of the Fe, but it's still just too much INTENSITY. Can't a brother relax without your loud incessant talking?
    Hahaha. I'm not sure that's Si PoLR so much as people with a loud voice. I do this too sometimes.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    You really don't have to. Basically, Justin's answer was a good representation of the kind of thing I'm looking for.
    It's not an exam, it's a forum. You cannot "look for" a specific answer if you target a given audience, duh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I tend to forget drinking water, so I have this bad habit of getting dehydrated.
    Same here. Mainly because water is inconveniently located. And when I do get water, I can't drink it all at once. Does anyone else's throat constrict when they try to swallow when full?

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    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It's not an exam, it's a forum. You cannot "look for" a specific answer if you target a given audience, duh.


    This has been given far more attention than it should've been.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    On the other hand, Mr Saturn just eats anything. I don't think he really enjoys food, haha.
    There was a brilliant chicken and ham pie at work today. I ate it for breakfast.

    (:

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    Has anyone else gone a full day without eating simply because they forgot?
    Also I suddenly realize I have to go to the bathroom.. bad, or if I'm busy I'll ignore it until it becomes a hindrance. I'll drink almost constantly or not at all. I can easily survive on just water or the same old food all the time. I can never decide what I want to eat unless it's a choice between a $5 meal and $4 dollar one. My food choice is always based on price and healthiness. Oh, and I'll eat anything. My Grandma always tells me to "heat that up" and usually I'm just like "why?" I never add salt or ketchup to anything. I consider eating something to get out of the way. When i was younger I refused to eat anything besides McDonalds chicken nuggets.(before I had a concept of health and costs)Not sure what that means, if anything at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azeroffs View Post
    Has anyone else gone a full day without eating simply because they forgot?
    I have, but it wasn't because I forgot, it was because I was preoccupied/obsessed with something else, and so food never even crossed my mind until it was really late that night.
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  27. #27
    unefille's Avatar
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    My ESE mother just ranted at me about treating my body as though it's mechanical rather than a living thing and importantly, as something that bothers me through need for care rather than being me. That strikes me as about right. Even health obsessed LIEs I know tend to approach it as though their body is a machine and they're tending to it according some step-by-step manual to ensure the machine keeps working. There's something distinctly inorganic and displaced about our relationship to 'looking after ourselves'. It's not merely a lack of care, or being careless and forgetting to eat or something. Those are just symptoms which may spring from various causes.
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  28. #28
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    My ESE mother just ranted at me about treating my body as though it's mechanical rather than a living thing and importantly, as something that bothers me through need for care rather than being me.
    Yeah, I can identify with this. I definitely think of myself in sort of mechanical terms: when I'm tired, it's not that being tired is a bad thing in and of itself, or somehow unnatural, but just that it prevents me from doing things, like being as effective at work, concentrating, feeling as good, etc. I think it's an Ni>Si approach: a focus on the consequences or effects of something happening, rather than the thing itself.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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