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Thread: IEE-ENFp visual identification guide (VI)

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Default IEE-ENFp visual identification guide (VI)

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    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 10-18-2009 at 04:02 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    **removed**
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 10-18-2009 at 04:02 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    **removed**
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 10-18-2009 at 04:02 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    I only can agree with Alanis Morissette's typing because I <3 her and her songs are very relatable and NeFi-ish. Otherwise, I might be able to connect some features with mainly the eyes, but I don't see the actual features that give away NeFi. I don't really see myself I don't think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    I only can agree with Alanis Morissette's typing because I <3 her and her songs are very relatable and NeFi-ish. Otherwise, I might be able to connect some features with mainly the eyes, but I don't see the actual features that give away NeFi. I don't really see myself I don't think.
    I agree. That was my same reaction actually!
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    In my opinion Jerry Sienfeld is an INFJ. He doesn't remind me of myself at all (ENFP), but does remind my of my brother who is a INFJ. He also smiles like an INFJ (I think that some of them have a very distinctive smile).

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    Does anyone have an opinion either way? I definitely think he is one of the two.

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    For what it's worth I think a lot of these are wrong.

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    I don't see that much resemblance between me and those people:
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    I disagree with all of you. Seinfeld is IEE-Ne, his wife, Jessica Seinfeld, is clearly SLI-Te.

    jewels is probably EII-Fi, anyway.

    People often will only see themselves in people they want to see themselves in. Which is probably why so many self typed IEEs here falsely believe they are the same type a Jude Law,olololololo. Ungrateful bastards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    I don't see that much resemblance between me and those people:
    I disagree.
    Last edited by Binky; 04-24-2009 at 12:07 PM.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Heh, Fi Polr , wonder how that feels.
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    alanis morissette is an INFp.... Jerry Seinfield is not ENFp
    {♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }

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    Quote Originally Posted by IcEPiCk View Post
    DeAnte, I suck so much ass and you rock so hard.
    I disagree with Dolphin's assessment.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Ssmall, reassess yourself and your type. Dolphin may have just exposed you.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Ssmall, reassess yourself and your type. Dolphin may have just exposed you.
    Ok.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Im ENTp-Fi, I'm focused on my PolR bear and I don't fail at it. \o/
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Ahaha, nice tags.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

    ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
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    sooo basically none of the IEEs listed actually are.

    Ssmall isn't ENTp just because he resembles some ENTps. ENTps and ENFps look similar and I know because I had an ENTp ex. We'd take pictures and almost look like twins, but that was only because of the Ne. Ssmall's posts have never offended my Fi (ever) and he clearly isn't an ENTp.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    sooo basically none of the IEEs listed actually are.

    Ssmall isn't ENTp just because he resembles some ENTps. ENTps and ENFps look similar and I know because I had an ENTp ex. We'd take pictures and almost look like twins, but that was only because of the Ne. Ssmall's posts have never offended my Fi (ever) and he clearly isn't an ENTp.
    And what a wonderful bit of nothing that was.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Binky is a tranny.
    osh gosh b'gosh, me just got GAMMA PWN'D.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Ok...You could start by explaining what you think Fi polr is and why you don't fail at it.
    To me Fi polr would be something along the lines of not being able to correctly assess relationships between you and other people. Not knowing what is the "level" of a relationships between you and others, or between other people. And in general being unaware of what is offensive or not to another person. Disregarding personal "rules" and "laws".

    I don't fail at it because I'm a people person. I quickly, very quickly adapt to new people (for instance in new workplace), make friends there. The fact I work what I work currently is due to the fact its the most exposed to people line of work in my field (IT consultant). In IT field you hardly could find a line of work where you would need so much communication. I love people and I surround myself with them, actively seek them. I hardly ever have problems understanding other people. You could suggest me some Fe type or whatever but I am by no means a T type. I'm a feeler, I very well understand other people and most of my friends come to me for advices. Some of my ex'es seek advice from me regarding relationships. Some people I hardly know do the same. People seem to quickly trust me and open up to me.
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    I'm not seeing anything deeper than a superficial resemblance? Also, why would "similarity of eyes, mouth expressions, movement, bearing" mean that people are the same type? Is that enough all by itself to type someone? Without knowing anything about them, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall
    People seem to quickly trust me and open up to me.
    Also this is an impression from all of his pictures that isn't necessarily in the pictures he's being compared to.

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    He seems to have a good amount of ILE's in the IEE section, as well as a few random types.

    I don't agree with a few of your ILE typings as well, and some I am just undecided on. How somebody could type Christian Bale as anything but a Beta makes me wonder...

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    What about David Duchovny (who imo doesn't photograph very well)...



    but this is a resemblance I can kind of see.

    Also, yeah, Christian Bale seems LSI to me, honestly...

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    Duchovney is Ne-ENTp. Christian Bale is ILE and his wife is probably ESE. I disagree with everyone who disagrees with this awesome Guide.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

  25. #25
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Personally I see very little to be gained with discussing the types of the celebrities here, because we do not know them, no one seems to have provided a large list of data to support a typing, and then with that data, there seems to be so many different angles on socionics that no consensus can in practicallity be reached.

    Then there is after all this (if it gets that far) someone can still say, that person isn't an XXX or SSmall still doesn't look like an XXX.

    So it seems to me largely futile to invest energy into this particular project.

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    Cyclops still has nothing of value to add. And the world keeps turning...
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

  27. #27
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Perhaps, or maybe it is that you don't see the value in an ISTp practical outlook. Who can say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Perhaps, or maybe it is that you don't see the value in an ISTp practical outlook. Who can say.
    lol. How can one human brain contain so much stupidity and general lack of insight?
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    Cyclops still has nothing of value to add. And the world keeps turning...
    you're fusing with your other persona... I was afraid someone would say Duchovny was ILE! But don't you think he gives a different impression than someone like Jon Stewart, Binky?

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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    lol. How can one human brain contain so much stupidity and general lack of insight?
    I know I don't know you very well, but is it necessary to be so abrasive? To be honest, concerning the topic at hand, I find that most people who uphold VI have a "Don't you just see the similarities?" and don't give anything concretely based. I don't want to disregard this if there is actually something to it, but since VI is using physical characteristics, shouldn't we be able to list out physical characteristics?

    Because if this is just a "vibe" or you're supposed to intuit someone's VI information, isn't that up to subjective interpretation? I'm open to your views about the subject, but I need a little more pointing towards the obvious so I can see what you see.

  31. #31
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    lol. How can one human brain contain so much stupidity and general lack of insight?
    Blah blah blah you're so tough with your insults. Most people in delta would agree with me I think that conversations are organic in terms that they evolve, shutting down like you seem to do doesn't get very far, at least with me, but I suspect with other delta's too.

    Of course, you could say i'm talking rubbish again or look for some sort of unproven Fe seeking type insult, or you could say that this post has a point and try to work with it. I dunno, again I see this as another reason for me personally not to invest any time, perhaps even invested enough time by writing this.

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    The man with the plan MasterfulMischief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binky View Post
    lol. How can one human brain contain so much stupidity and general lack of insight?
    I honestly thought this was tongue and cheek, it's just dripping with irony.

    Regardless this thread has stopped being an intelligent discussion thread and just turned into an excuse for binky to get his Se on thread.

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    And I highly doubt all people would agree to your profession that they generally trust you - do you assume all people are made alike in this arena?
    And I highly doubt all people would agree that Christian Bale and Ssmall are the same type...what is your opinion on the accuracy of VI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    I know I don't know you very well, but is it necessary to be so abrasive? To be honest, concerning the topic at hand, I find that most people who uphold VI have a "Don't you just see the similarities?" and don't give anything concretely based. I don't want to disregard this if there is actually something to it, but since VI is using physical characteristics, shouldn't we be able to list out physical characteristics?

    Because if this is just a "vibe" or you're supposed to intuit someone's VI information, isn't that up to subjective interpretation? I'm open to your views about the subject, but I need a little more pointing towards the obvious so I can see what you see.
    Fair enough.

    It was between ILE-Ne or IEE-Ne for Seinfeld. I chose IEE due to his wife VIing as SLI-Te (compare to Grace Kelly and Jessica129) and that his overall presence feels generally warmer to me than most other ILEs, some of which have been his costars.

    Jessica Seinfeld (Te-ISTp) | Jerry Seinfeld (Ne-ENFp)

    After observing her interactions with Justin Long, Ne-ENFp just seemed obvious for Ginnifer Goodwin. I honestly can't imagine anyone typing her as anything else. Watch the vid and let me know what you think.

    The following videos are interviews by David Letterman (Te-ISTp) talking to Mary-Louise Parker and Dakota Fanning. Notice the smooth, psychological compatibility between Letterman and both interview subjects. Big contrast compared to the palpable, uncomfortable "tension" seen during his interviews of ppl like Jessica Alba or Linda Fiorentino (Betas).





    Ppl are often stuck between IEE or ESE for JLH. In the very top interview contained in this link (interviewed by Tyra Banks), I think she comes off even "stereotypically" Delta.

    To varying degrees, certain things such as EP tempermant (in contrast to IJ/EJ), fuctional preferences (tangible presence of and/or > /, etc,), similarities in ppl/types mode of interaction can be observed and compared to help narrow down an individual's type.
    Last edited by Binky; 05-05-2009 at 04:30 AM.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterfulMischief View Post
    I honestly thought this was tongue and cheek, it's just dripping with irony.

    Regardless this thread has stopped being an intelligent discussion thread and just turned into an excuse for binky to get his Se on thread.
    Considering you self type as an super-id, you should be cumming through your pants right about now.
    -
    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

  36. #36
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Thank you for replying with that information, I like this sort of helping each other towards and end goal sort of thing But, from what I gathered, there is no real list or signs of physical characteristics that back up VI, correct? The information you gave me was your guess about someone's type by inspecting their interactions with other people and their "vibe", for instance, you noted Jerry Seinfeld's "warmness" and his interactions with co-stars and his wife. So, in essence, wouldn't the interpretation of these interactions and his vibe be up for each person's subjectivity? In a sense, is it impossible to VI someone without intuiting deals of their manner? (Please, do steer me in the right direction of your thinking if I'm off) What I see is people intuiting celebrities' types and then comparing the physical characteristics of said celebrities as models to other people to ascertain their type. I think you are on the right track watching people interact and seeing how each person reacts to another, but isn't that not VI? If VI isn't typing based of someone's physicality, then where's the justification of forum member's comparing their pictures to a celebrity's picture? If I'm misled about the definition of VI, do correct me.

    I feel like what you showed me was way better evidence than stereotypical VI evidence, which is side by side picture comparison in it's incarnation on this forum. So, using you as an example, wouldn't it be better conduct to compare videos of people instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by look.to.the.sky View Post
    Thank you for replying with that information, I like this sort of helping each other towards and end goal sort of thing But, from what I gathered, there is no real list or signs of physical characteristics that back up VI, correct? The information you gave me was your guess about someone's type by inspecting their interactions with other people and their "vibe", for instance, you noted Jerry Seinfeld's "warmness" and his interactions with co-stars and his wife. So, in essence, wouldn't the interpretation of these interactions and his vibe be up for each person's subjectivity? In a sense, is it impossible to VI someone without intuiting deals of their manner? (Please, do steer me in the right direction of your thinking if I'm off) What I see is people intuiting celebrities' types and then comparing the physical characteristics of said celebrities as models to other people to ascertain their type. I think you are on the right track watching people interact and seeing how each person reacts to another, but isn't that not VI? If VI isn't typing based of someone's physicality, then where's the justification of forum member's comparing their pictures to a celebrity's picture? If I'm misled about the definition of VI, do correct me.

    I feel like what you showed me was way better evidence than stereotypical VI evidence, which is side by side picture comparison in it's incarnation on this forum. So, using you as an example, wouldn't it be better conduct to compare videos of people instead?
    You are correct that there is no manual that says "ESEs have eyes like this" and so forth. VI involves body language as well, not just physicality. VI is subjective, noone will disagree with that. Vibes are apart of it, but it's also about correlating vibes. Noticing correlating vibes of different types and your own vibes, at least somewhat, correlating with other ppls interpretations of the vibes of different types as well. VI alone is no singular, promoted way to type. It's often necessary to pull videos, quotes, observe intertype relations, etc, before a whole idea can come together. Some are easier to type than others.

    A good example of a physical characteristic common among ILE-Tis is something myself and another experienced VIer have refered to as the "Alpha cast." It's practically a tradmark look for Ti-ENTps. It's defined by an inward curvature beginning at the bottom of the eyebrows and goes down to the bottom of the eye sockets or sometimes the top of the cheekbones. Pretty much everyone has this to a certain extent, but it's especially prominent in Alpha Ti subtypes when their mouths are open as well. It often creates the impression of an excited child opening it's first gift on Christmas day or something.




    Similarities on the lines from the nose up to the eyes and eyebrows are not uncommon among ppl of the same type.



    Another example, notice the similar structure of smile and eye shape between Vero (mn0good here on the forum) and say, Julia Stiles, a probable Ti-ENTp. Same goes for distinguishing Se subtype Betas and Gammas or Ti subtype Alphas and Betas, or Fi subtype Deltas and Gammas, etc.

    Every single individual will not correlate with these few examples 100%. It's rare that someone does. Thus, the importance of relying on secondary information as well. Also, read what I wrote on body language here.

    I guess noone reads the top of these Guides, but I originally included videos in both Guides, but later took them down due to so many slowing up the page and taking a while to load. I simplified the format for aesthetic purposes.

    Hope I answered your questions informatively. Let me know if you want to know anything else.
    Last edited by Binky; 04-24-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

  38. #38
    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I'm honestly surprised that you can't see the similarity of demeanor, eye and mouth expressions and movements.
    They may be similar, through genetics/biology/type, whichever, but what does it say about either of their types? Is it, that you somehow figure out their type and take note of their mannerisms, then look at other people you believe are the same type and see if you can find the same mannerisms? I really don't want to seem ungrateful, but don't you see how what you said is unhelpful? WHAT am I not seeing? In the text that you quoted about VI from Ashton, I believe, he mentioned that VI should be quantifiable. I'm looking for the quantifiable evidence, so if I was going to tell someone else about VI, I wouldn't just use "Christian Bale is so and so type, if you see someone else with similar mannerisms, they are the same type." Am I expressing my concerns clearly? I'm hoping someone can empathize with my frustration with the statement 'I don't know how you can't see this,' because I find it inconclusive. I know I'm not an idiot, but all I have for VI is subjective qualitative evidence, which is fine for my own personal use, but maybe not for a widespread learning.

  39. #39
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    The person who introduced VI to socionics on this side of the earth can't actually explain it in exact terms. True that others can try, but until perhaps some day that loads of types that everyone can agree on as being correct (and then-it seems proving someones type is no easy feat), is fed into a computer program, which is able to sort through the data and find empircally provable results, it is largely a personal thing-that is each person does it their own way, possibly by building up their own internal database of types they come into contact with themselves, it remains a subjective issue, and it's really impossible at present to prove it by the scientific method.

    Deante/binky/maybe other aliases, I think it is good that you are trying, although I don't understand the way that you are doing it and how it will convince people, it simply can't be 100% agreed upon in it's current development. I think the differences of opinions even on this thread proves that.

  40. #40
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    Probably every single knowledgeable "socionist," Russian or internet geek, I can think of, has used VI to some extent to justify their own typings. I'm sorry to tell the naysayers, but it's here to stay.

    Cyclops is still dunce who will never learn beyond the elementary limitations of MBTI.
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    It's Binky bitch.
    See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
    And hear not the silence after.
    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
    And listen to the laughter
    .

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