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Thread: Gilly's Subtype (ct'd from male/female behavior thread)

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Default Gilly's Subtype (ct'd from male/female behavior thread)

    You think I'm an Fe subtype? o_O I wish you could meet me in person, eheheheh...there's a reason I sometimes think I'm IEI.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    You're just trying to flatter me so I'll agree with you

    I will say, sometimes I am tempted to think that I am more Alpha than Gamma, but I typically stack it up to being Fe dominant in general. When it comes down to it, I think I am too much "in my head," and too detached from people in general to be the Fe subtype...I can go without human interaction for days and not really think twice about it, unless something particularly interesting happens. From my experience with a wide range of EIEs, I would say that I have the moodiness, artistic and intellectual inclinations, interest in underlying phenomena, and general "detachedness" of the Ni subtypes, and that I lack the sociability, interest in culture, more-present-than-not bubbliness or natural gregariousness, and typically high arousal level of Fe subtypes.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Also there's the matter of my best friend being an SEE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Actually "learning by doing" is pretty much my modus operandum. My whole frustration with my Delta rational parents stems from them not allowing me to "fuck up" and learn from myself; they always tried to protect me from shady friends, bail me out when I got picked up by the cops, send me away to boarding school when things got bad at public.

    My whole approach to life is basically that you can't know something unless you experience it, which is partially why I am so proud of my own life experiences: I both find them interesting objectively, and appreciate them subjectively for the memories and what they have taught me.

    But maybe you're referring to something different?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Well see that's the problem I had; my parents sort of tried to engineer "safe" life experiences for me: a motorcycle trip with my dad, a couple weeks in Europe, various trips with church and close family friends...but I never really began learning anything until I took the initiative to break myself into the "real world" and see the extremes of life: the conspicuous habits and ethics of the super rich, the exasperation and frustration of people living in the lower class, getting to know other artists and seekers and being part of their lives, becoming a drug dealer, using drugs excessively, going to drug rehab, taking initiative to cultivate my own philosophical and spiritual life without "guidance"...these are the kinds of things that actually helped me mature, and the only reason I DID learn was because I faced REAL consequences for MY choices, instead of being placed in a "learning environment" and force-fed what seemed like artificial rites of passage.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    But of course, I'm sure your typing of me is based on more of a gestalt impression, and isn't going to be really changed much by me rambling on about myself...in any case, I'm going to prune this into a separate thread so the initial discussion can continue.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Well basically what I'm getting at is not that you've "got your mind made up and are not going to change it," or are not open minded or willing to change your opinion, but rather that what I say can't really change what you observe about me. Not trying to take away from what you're saying; just what I assume is actually going on here.


    I'm curious about what you mean by "learning to do."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    So...learning to do, as in learning for the purpose of accumulating wealth/working in a stable equilibrium?

    I know what Te is, I'm just confused by the motivations that you're attributing to Ni-EIEs, or how this all fits together.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I would say my form of that would be developing my own artistic pursuits while priming myself to go into a career as a professor or editor (the "practical" side). Compare to my brother in law, an EIE-Fe, who wants his whole life to be about his art, presently out of work in order to pursue his art, to either land on the shore with full sails or go down with the ship. I am merely content to do what I feel I must in order to express myself and make something that I see as "worthy," leave my mark on the people around me and my own little world, and live my life like I want it to be.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #10
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Hmmm...I guess the point I was trying to make is that I just don't see any point in devoting my life entirely to art; it's just not a risk I'm willing to take. It just seems stupid to me, given how many talented artists go completely to seed and are never known, simply because so much of becoming a recognized artist who is capable of making a living from self-directed art is pure luck, and not worth risking a stable life over, IMO, especially when comparable amounts of work can be produced either way. In short, I just think doing such a thing is not only financial suicide, but ultimately pointless.

    What do you mean by "the ideas behind them?"
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    So those people's personal reasons for doing what they did, right.

    What do my personal reasons for choosing my currently set-out life path say to you?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I suppose that what ifmd95 meant by learning by doing associated with Te is quite purely task and information-related, as opposed to the more social-spiritual(albeit the latter part can still be quite significant in strong Ni subtype ENTj) side that you seem to value more. I'm sure you're also quite able to learn how to execute tasks/information well, but it might not be your primary focus, by the way you describe the process.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I will say, sometimes I am tempted to think that I am more Alpha than Gamma, but I typically stack it up to being Fe dominant in general. When it comes down to it, I think I am too much "in my head," and too detached from people in general to be the Fe subtype...I can go without human interaction for days and not really think twice about it, unless something particularly interesting happens. From my experience with a wide range of EIEs, I would say that I have the moodiness, artistic and intellectual inclinations, interest in underlying phenomena, and general "detachedness" of the Ni subtypes, and that I lack the sociability, interest in culture, more-present-than-not bubbliness or natural gregariousness, and typically high arousal level of Fe subtypes.
    oke it's settled then. Ni subtype.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You think I'm an Fe subtype? o_O I wish you could meet me in person, eheheheh...there's a reason I sometimes think I'm IEI.
    Yeah but I sometimes think I'm SEE; does that make me Se subtype? I also think I'm sometimes LSI, but that doesn't make me necessarily Ti subtype. In short, thinking you're your mirror or your kindred doesn't make you a certain subtype.

    Also, what is the use of subtype again? In your opinion, Gilly (not some Model AOHXXG freak's who thinks SLE-Ti will go significantly better with EII-Ne than will SLE-Se).

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    I'm an Ni-EIE ... Gilly, you think you're the same subtype?

    I'd thought you were the Fe subtype, to be honest with you... By VI and the way you post... You're more in line with the Fe-EIE look/style of conversation (e.g. Hugh Hefner, Jerry Springer, etc.)

    Ezra's point is well-taken though... It doesn't matter much, practically speaking, which subtype you are... LSI is still your dual... Ti-LSI might like you a little more and vice versa... That's the hypothesis.

    P.S. W. Bush as EIE is, IMO, an incorrect typing... although the temperment is correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    how people personally decide and the arguments they express are not necessarily equivalent (but i'm not saying yours necessarily aren't!) but you know what i think about how you've structured what i can see.
    I guess.

    Other reasons for Ni subtype for me: I have more of a natural inclination to do very literally Ti things, like use abstract formal logic and dissection in an argument...in general I have a much more obvious Ti bent in my thinking rather than Se, and Se is really what I feel myself acutely "lacking" in real life situations, whereas Ti is just sort of something I generally place emphasis on and maybe need a little clarification with when I feel "lost." However at the same time I see myself as rather adept and fully independent in matters of Te: working efficiently, developing my own methods of getting work done, adjusting to rapidly changing circumstances, etc.

    FDG is reiterating the behavioral part of it (which in his case may be more the bulk of it.)
    Hmmm...I dunno, when I actually have tasks to accomplish I tend to take a pretty straightforward, no-nonsense approach, whereas I see people like my Fe-EIE brother-in-law as dilly-dallying, being sort of flimsy, wasting time to do things the way they want them done as opposed to just getting it over with.

    @Fabio: My natural attention is definitely more on my own experience of things, and my own emotions, and I guess what some people would think of as "spiritual" kinds of things (although really I think the idea of "spiritual"-ness is kind of a bullshit excuse to make emotions and internal experience sound important; not that I think they're unimportant, but a lot of people use buzzwords like that to conflate their own experiences into more than they really are), but really when it comes to actually getting things done, I'm pretty no-nonsense, and more often than not when I work with other people I find myself directing them on the fastest way to do things, the best methods, etc.

    @ Ezra: I think that the temperament ring is the best way of looking at subtypes, and makes the most sense with Model A overall.

    @Juju: While I'm flattered by the comparison to Heff and I can sort of see superficial similarities between myself and Springer, I don't really see myself as being that natural or confident with people. I'm much more in my head, sort of off in my own little space, more like John Lennon or maybe a slightly more open version of Marilyn Manson, if you can imagine that.

    Also something that might be deceiving you: because of my social anxiety and the noncommital nature of this medium, it's a lot easier for me to be outgoing and "talkative" on the forum or on Stickam than I am in real life; if you passed me on the street, at first glance you would probably think that I was a bit on the arrogant/reticent side, maybe even angry, unless I was in a particularly good mood in which case I might be looking off in the distance and singing to myself
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    oke it's settled then. Ni subtype.
    Yeah, tbh I'm pretty sure of it. It just makes way more sense, all things considered.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  18. #18
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Is your diagnosis of my type perhaps being influenced by that perception of the forum atmospheres?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    @Fabio: My natural attention is definitely more on my own experience of things, and my own emotions, and I guess what some people would think of as "spiritual" kinds of things (although really I think the idea of "spiritual"-ness is kind of a bullshit excuse to make emotions and internal experience sound important; not that I think they're unimportant, but a lot of people use buzzwords like that to conflate their own experiences into more than they really are), but really when it comes to actually getting things done, I'm pretty no-nonsense, and more often than not when I work with other people I find myself directing them on the fastest way to do things, the best methods, etc.
    "Directing" people is quite the opposite of "learning by doing", since the latter involves doing things by yourself and executing the task. Again, I'm pretty certian that you would and are pretty skilled at doing stuff, but I'm also pretty certain that it does not seem to be your focus in life and in discourse (consider the case of the SLI conflictor, for who learning by doing could be considered as what consitute its whole existance, in many cases).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Do you think your social anxiety might be confusing you as re: your subtype, i.e. the reason you're picking Ni..? You'd know better than me.

    I mean, I know you alright, you know, but not well enough to say anything definitely about this shit.

    Here is a picture of me (two weeks ago or so...) Ni-EIE:


    Ni-EIE:


    Here is a picture of a Fe-EIE (in the brown shirt)


    Fe-EIE:


    See how you VI more like the accepting subtype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    "Directing" people is quite the opposite of "learning by doing", since the latter involves doing things by yourself and executing the task. Again, I'm pretty certian that you would and are pretty skilled at doing stuff, but I'm also pretty certain that it does not seem to be your focus in life and in discourse (consider the case of the SLI conflictor, for who learning by doing could be considered as what consitute its whole existance, in many cases).
    right I agree with all of this, but my propensity for being good at "doing" and having no problem directing others in getting things done is, imo, one point for my type leaning more towards LIE than ESE; I'm EIE either way, but I think I am more like an LIE than an ESE, in terms of my general temperament, what I have to offer in a relationship, and what I need from another person.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Do you think your social anxiety might be confusing you as re: your subtype, i.e. the reason you're picking Ni..? You'd know better than me.

    I mean, I know you alright, you know, but not well enough to say anything definitely about this shit.
    I mean, I guess it's part of it, but I'm trying to look at the whole picture instead of isolating specific causes for my behavior; that's a slippery slope to reductionism, in which case I could make sense of just about any type.


    See how you VI more like the accepting subtype?
    Not really
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Ok maybe the guy in the brown shirt, a bit. But I don't think that's conclusive by any means...and I'm not even sure about using VI as a way to differentiate between subtypes at all.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    right I agree with all of this, but my propensity for being good at "doing" and having no problem directing others in getting things done is, imo, one point for my type leaning more towards LIE than ESE; I'm EIE either way, but I think I am more like an LIE than an ESE, in terms of my general temperament, what I have to offer in a relationship, and what I need from another person.
    Yes, I agree.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Welp, as is the moral of many of these threads... You can lead a horse to water but... you know

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    SEE: VI thread in Main discussion.

    (You know I like you, right Gilly? I'm just trying to get it right for you.)

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    in the end, cases for either subtype can be boiled down to rather simplistic explanations, but I have found that, when working with socionics, its best to look at the whole picture and use what makes the whole picture fit rather tthan try to find explanations for individual phenomena of personality and try to make socionics into a more precise tool than it is in reality. @jju: I learned a long time ago that this stuff isn't worth taking personally and that, in the end, everyone can't agree on everything because the system is flawed to the point that the shades of grey and peoples personal perceptions relative to their own experience tend to get in the way of everything matching up perfectly
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I disagree with you in that I've learned there is a right and a wrong in Socionics. (E.g. a lot of Ashton's deltas are "wrong," lol.)

    I used to think along the lines you described, but that was a cop-out for me not knowing the system well enough.

    There are, however, shades of gray as re: borderline typings, e.g. Mimosa Pudica, Sirena, etc. They're just tough calls.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    @ifmd: agree that the idea of 'best fit' can be taken too far; however in the case of my subtype, my reasons for thinking that I am ni sub extend beyond things that can be easily explained away, while I see the case for fe subtype as essentially your and apparently juju's perception of a weighted preference for fe, which I don't really see, but would be glad to entertain if you could present something a little more...substantial.

    @juju: just to be clear, im not advocating the 'type is relative' approach, but rather simply what I see as an obvious facet of applying this theory to reality which is that our perception of finer distinctions like subtypes can be affected (but, to be sure, are not 'ultimately determined') by our scope of exemplars of a given type; combine that with the uncertainty of this medium, and, well, the result is that, without some pretty obvious reasoning, or at the least some much better comparisons its going to be rather difficult to convince me that you know my subtype better than I do.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  30. #30
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I think you are Ni subtype. Not because you're closer to IEI than ESE (I already ranted about that once). It's because I think you are not Fe.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    @ifmd ok, i understand. In any case, i have decided that perhaps i am being a tad overconfident, and for a few reasons i have decided to take this enquiry a bit more seriously rather than stopping the buck at "i know me best but theoretical sidetrack aside, what exactly is it that makes you guys think i am fe sub?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  32. #32
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I get open minded and all of a sudden nobody has an opinion any more? sigh...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  33. #33
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    @ Ezra: I think that the temperament ring is the best way of looking at subtypes, and makes the most sense with Model A overall.
    Is the temperament ring the "EIE-Ni subtype works better with LSI-Se than with LSI-Ti" hypothesis? (If not, please link me to some threads - I probably disregarded it in the past sometime.)
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Is the temperament ring the "EIE-Ni subtype works better with LSI-Se than with LSI-Ti" hypothesis? (If not, please link me to some threads - I probably disregarded it in the past sometime.)
    yes, thats the one.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    yes, thats the one.
    Okay. I s'pose it is pretty logical, so I'll accept it.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Default My meeting with Gilly

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    You think I'm an Fe subtype? o_O I wish you could meet me in person, eheheheh...there's a reason I sometimes think I'm IEI.
    Okay, here's my description of my meeting with Gilly around April 2007, in Berlin.

    I was working in Hanover for a while and Gilly was staying in Berlin for a few days, so I did the couple hours' drive and met him there.

    I don't know my way in Berlin particularly well, least of all in the former Soviet sector which is where he was staying. But, I did find the street where he was staying in, parked the car some 200m from the building, called him on his cellphone, and he came down to meet me.

    His hosts had suggested to him a street with some restaurants, a few minutes' drive away. So we went to my car, I looked at the name of the street, found it in my Berlin map, showed it to Gilly, and where we were, and asked him to look at the map while I drove us there.

    I had driven to Gilly's side street coming from the south east, which I knew was to the left (since I had just came from there). The restaurants' street was to the north west, so we had to turn right. Gilly insisted we had to turn left, so I said, "ok I will turn left, but you will see it's the wrong way". Which indeed was the case, so I did an U-turn and eventually we got there, with Gilly helping me with the map. We didn't have much time to chat about other things besides how to get there while on the way.

    I only found a space a couple of blocks away from that street, so we parked and started walking. We walked past a restaurant advertising itself as a gay-and-lesbian place. It was empty, and it had a sign saying in German, "couples get 2 meals for one". I joked, "hey if we pretend to be a gay couple, we can have one free meal here". Somehow Gilly remained serious and continued to look ahead and walking.

    Among the several restaurants, we agreed on a sort of Indian-ish place, found a table, and started to talk.

    Gilly wasn't in the jolly mood he's often in here, or in descriptions, or in videos - he was rather serious, pensive, thoughtful. He was friendly when first greeting me but not overly "joyful". He remained rather -- subdued, thoughtful, not "sad" but not "funny" or "happy" either.

    We talked about his trip, about what was going on, and about socionics (obviously). At the time, his "official" typing was still ILE, Rick had suggested EIE, but he was considering Beta (just after that meeting he was actively proposing SLE for his type). He commented on how he never felt comfortable with the values of his Delta parents, and how most of his friends and relationships had been with Betas. Yet, he still seemed to consider the Alpha perspective. I don't remember if I argued strongly against him being EIE or IEI, or in favor of his being ILE, although I probably said that SLE was unlikely.

    I talked a bit about was going on in my life, a bit about socionics, and at one point I got a bit over-enthusiastic about something I had been considering and started illustrating a point by using a laser point against the wall while droning on about it. Gilly paid attention but I suspect he was wondering wtf I was talking about.

    I offered to pay the bill but Gilly insisted on paying, so ok.

    On the way back to the car, neither of us could remember if we had to turn right or left . Neither of us had paid particular attention to where we had walked from, and it was late night, with snow on the street and the cars, so it was even less obvious. We started going in one direction, then decided "no that's not it", turned around, and finally found the car. I drove him "home", we said goodbye amicably and in more relaxed way than when we first met, and I drove back to Hanover.

    My type-relevant comments:

    The one thing I found very unlikely from meeting him at the time was that he was SLE, because I did not see any of the Se or Si focus - he later argued that he was depressed and with an eye infection, when he was arguing for SLE - but even so, I couldn't see it. It seemed that we were equally "spaced out".

    His persona at the time seemed to be: friendly but subdued, even "sad", not very energetic, lost in thought, with lots of things going on in his life, very easy to be around and to talk to, essentially a nice guy. At the time he wasn't jokey or enthusiastic as we know he can be otherwise.

    My own subjective impressions: I liked him a lot, while noticing that he seemed worried about lots of things in his life.

    ETA: Around the same time I drove to Hamburg to meet Kim, who I also liked a lot.
    Last edited by Expat; 05-24-2009 at 01:16 AM. Reason: typos
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Hmm, for some reason I remembered now that I joked with Gilly that I could VI the King of Belgium as SEI by looking at his profile on a Belgian coin, and showed it to him.
    Last edited by Expat; 05-24-2009 at 01:16 AM.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Okay, here's my description of my meeting with Gilly around April 2007, in Berlin.

    I was working in Hanover for a while and Gilly was staying in Berlin for a few days, so I did the couple hours' drive and met him there.

    I don't know my way in Berlin particularly well, least of all in the former Soviet sector which is where he was staying. But, I did find the street where he was staying in, parked the car some 200m from the building, called him on his cellphone, and he came down to meet me.

    His hosts had suggested to him a street with some restaurants, a few minutes' drive away. So we went to my car, I looked at the name of the street, found it in my Berlin map, showed it to Gilly, and where we were, and asked me to look at the map while I drove us there.

    I had driven to Gilly's side street coming from the south east, which I knew was to the left (since I had just came from there). The restaurants' street was to the north west, so we had to turn right. Gilly insisted we had to turn left, so I said, "ok I will turn left, but you will see it's the wrong way". Which indeed was the case, so I did an U-turn and eventually we got there, with Gilly helping me with the map. We didn't have much time to chat about other thing besides how to get there while on the way.

    I only found a space a couple of blocks away from that street, so we parked and started walking. We walked past a restaurant advertising itself as a gay-and-lesbian place. It was empty, and it had a sign saying in German, "couples get 2 meals for one". I joked, "hey if we pretend to be a gay couple, we can have one free meal here". Somehow Gilly remained serious and continued to look ahead and walking.

    Among the several restaurants, we agreed on a sort of Indian-ish place, found a table, and started to talk.

    Gilly wasn't in the jolly mood he's often in here, or in descriptions, or in videos - he was rather serious, pensive, thoughtful. He was friendly when first greeting me but not overly "joyful". He remained rather -- subdued, thoughtful, not "sad" but not "funny" or "happy" either.

    We talked about his trip, about what was going on, and about socionics (obviously). At the time, his "official" typing was still ILE, Rick had suggested EIE, but he was considering Beta (just after that meeting he was actively proposing SLE for his type). He commented on how he never felt comfortable with the values of his Delta parents, and how most of his friends and relationships had been with Betas. Yet, he still seemed to consider the Alpha perspective. I don't remember if I argued strongly against him being EIE or IEI, or in favor of his being ILE, although I probably said that SLE was unlikely.

    I talked a bit about was going on in my life, a bit about socionics, and at one point I got a bit over-enthusiastic about something I had been considering and started illustrating a point by using a laser point against the wall while droning on about it. Gilly paid attention but I suspect he was wondering wtf I was talking about.

    I offered to pay the bill but Gilly insisted on paying, so ok.

    On the way back to the car, neither of us could remember if we had to turn right or left . Neither of us had paid particular attention to where we had walked from, and it was late night, with snow on the street and the cars, so it was even less obvious. We started going in one direction, then decided "no that's not it", turned around, and finally found the car. I drove him "home", we said goodbye amicably and in more relaxed way than when we first met, and I drove back to Hanover.

    My type-relevant comments:

    The one thing I found very unlikely from meeting him at the time was that he was SLE, because I did not see any of the Se or Si focus - he later argued that he was depressed and with an eye infection, when he was arguing for SLE - but even so, I couldn't see it. It seemed that we were equally "spaced out".

    His persona at the time seemed to be: friendly but subdued, even "sad", not very energetic, lost in thought, with lots of things going on in his life, very easy to be around and to talk to, essentially a nice guy. At the time he wasn't jokey or enthusiastic as we know he can be otherwise.

    My own subjective impressions: I liked him a lot, while noticing that he seemed worried about lots of things in his life.

    ETA: Around the same time I drove to Hamburg to meet Kim, who I also liked a lot.

    Nice post. In your conclusion do you suppose he is an IEI or EIE? becuase this behavior is generally Beta NF.
    Last edited by 07490; 05-24-2009 at 01:04 AM.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    Nice post. In your conclusion do you suppose he is an IEI or EIE? becuase this behavior is generally Beta NF.
    From that meeting alone, if I had no other information about him, I'd probably have said IEI>EIE; but from what I know of him elsewhere, from here, and from his relationships with his Delta parents, I think EIE is more likely than IEI.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    From that meeting alone, if I had no other information about him, I'd probably have said IEI>EIE; but from what I know of him elsewhere, from here, and from his relationships with his Delta parents, I think EIE is more likely than IEI.
    Yup...
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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