Introverted Intuition

[creabots]

Right now I suspect that I'm IEI, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't entirely understand Ni. The description mentions seeing beyond the axis of time and catching patterns and seeing where trends are going, but I personally do very little predicting. I do make assessments on relationships and people, however.

One of the things I read was that ILI's tend to examine things that deal with efficiency and productivity, like technology, I suppose, while IEI's tend to predict where relationships are going. Is this true?

A lot of the things in the IEI description seems correct, but I've been wrong before.

On a sidenote, I find that I'm too unpredictable to know what to expect of myself all the time. One of my friends tells me that I can be overzealous at times.

To sum it all up, I would just like to understand how fits into IEI, if there are any other differences in hows it's used by ILI's, and whether or not types constantly make predictions. If so, I might be something else.

I'd appreciate any assistance you can give

[ArchonAlarion]

Here is a helpful guide to the elements:

Socionix Articles: Theoretical Discussion - Socionix

Simply put, Ni is the "Internal dynamics of fields"

Ni has no more to deal with time than any of the other dynamic elements. Ni types are not always forecasting. I forecast the future alot too.

Other people here will try and jump on me for this, but seriously do not listen to them. They have no clue what they are talking about.

Ni is a way of perceiving information as with all the IM elements. They are "passive input filters".

Ni sees groups of things as a fluid sum. A continuum across time. So when Ni looks at a thing (like a person, place, story, existence, etc) it turns the thing into a field (A set of objects) and being dynamic, blurs the set into a flowing summation. Ni kinda like, takes the "formula" out of a thing. It sees the essence of a thing by combining all its discrete parts (Se) into a single field entity.

Here is a helpful description from user Strrrng:

"What Ni/Se and Si/Ne really do
Mimosa's analogy to a puzzle in a recent thread caused me to use her metaphor to expand on what Ni/Se and Si/Ne actually are/do. The understanding of them seems to be heavily distorted in the socionics community, and explanations are either too simplistic or too abstract. The puzzle analogy, however, seems to elucidate the reality of them very nicely. So, consider a puzzle. Each of these functional feedback loops solve it in a very different way; the methods which they utilize are completely diametrical to one another. Ni/Se sees the puzzle in itself; the pieces are simply discrete physical entities with ostensible properties. Ni tracks the abstract connections between these entities, and eventually hones in on the central process. There is no premise, no deduction; it is merely a fluid synthesis that produces an awareness of the essential theme governing how the pieces fit together. Thus, Ni works backwards, extrapolating patterns from the conclusion. Si/Ne, on the other hand, sees the pieces of the puzzle as discrete entities carrying latent, abstract properties. It examines them, noticing which properties are similar to which, continually dividing and rearranging the pieces as new patterns emerge. Si connects the pieces within a physical field. To Si/Ne, there is no "essential" process; the connection is in the physical interactions. Si provides an externally defined context for Ne to permutate from (likewise, Ni provides a context for Se to gauge objects from; it is just self-contained). Ne/Si may find multiple solutions to the puzzle, by rearranging the pieces in different ways, based on different combinations of abstractions it sees. Ni/Se sees this as superfluous, because no matter how you arrange the pieces based on whatever properties they may or may not have, the implicit pattern generating the answer is still the same. Si/Ne sees this as arbitrary and limiting, as the only abstractions that exist are within the objects, not in the process that connects them. In this way, it is easy to see how vastly different and irreconcilable Si/Ne and Ni/Se are, in terms of cognitive styles, and what they actually do."




and from the link I gave you (From Socionix):



Ni - Internal Field Dynamics (IFD)
Keywords: Essence, Hypostasis, Fundament, Inherence, Consilience, Emergence, Apperception, Gestalt, Holistic, Irreducible, Stochastic, Non-Linear, Cynosural, Nucleus, Attrahent, Coalescence, Focalization, Extractance, Distillation, Essentiation

I think Ni is more about perceiving the essences of things. Of phenomenon, trends, situations, people, etc. Ni will pick up on the fundamental gist of what something is or what's going on, and can infer the latent underlying patterns present. Ni perception has a holographic property to how it operates, whereby upon becoming aware of any 'part', Ni allows you to recognize the 'whole' that it's a constituent of. The perception may not completely clear at first encounter, but there will often at least be some vague inclination or instinct present that will eventually ferment into a crystallized clarity.

The process by which Ni works as it does isn't really something that avails itself to deductive analysis where one can map themselves going from point A to B and can tell why they perceive whatever it is (in contrast, I notice that Ne *can* do this about itself). With Ni, it seems that the process is very non-linear and discontinuous, consisting of a lot fuzzy, chaotic, disparate leaps that occur just under the hood of the consciousness... that is, one doesn't have much direct cognizant access to it as it's happening. And the resultant perceptions rendered from all of this will more or less spontaneously percolate into one's awareness in a peculiarly emergent fashion. Sometimes it all happens in a fraction of a second (ideal for crisis situations), other times it can take many days, weeks, or months.

As one becomes aware of a situation, a person, or a problem you're trying to solve... whatever it is, it's as though Ni receives a large packet of information about whatever it is that one is perceiving, all at once. It hits you instantly, as though your Ni is trying to "tell" you something, and there's a distinctive quality of knowingness about the information you receive. And you may not know exactly what it's telling you yet... but nevertheless, you have a vague impression, sense, "feeling," or instinct of the end, essence, or totality of whatever it is you're perceiving. Other times it might come through imagery of a symbolic/metaphorical nature, or just free-flowing dynamic visualizations that describe something to you when you look at them. Usually, it will be a bit "unrefined" at first, but something definite is certainly there. You know the conclusion well before you know the steps it's going to take to get there. Sometimes you kind of have to let it evolve and unfold until it becomes clearer. Or maybe start teasing it apart with Fe or Te to begin organizing it and turning it into something coherent.

The person cannot really say how they know, but only that they know. And the more that is a dominant feature of one's psychological functioning, the more it seems that one's ability to communicate these things dissolves into a haze of apparent ineffability that would just be a semblance of senselessness to most. Obviously this can be a major downside. In Ni-INXps and Ni-ENXjs and some others, you'll notice them saying more things like, "I dunno how I know, but I know! I can't explain it, just trust me alright?" And having more prevailing usage of indirect metaphor, idiosyncratic cliches, strange idioms, synecdoches, and metonymies in their speech - especially when describing things. Between others of similar enough type, the meanings are easily conveyed. Try to talk about these things to those without or those whose is not as developed, and they'll likely find themselves the voice of one crying alone in the wilderness. I notice that intensive makes a lot of the Alphas/Deltas very uncomfortable, probably in the same sort of vein that their would make Betas/Gammas uncomfortable. This is especially true of Xe-ESXjs and Xi-INXjs, many of whom will often respond with hostile self-righteous condemnation against someone using significant . And they will say things like "No, you can't know that!" "You have no right to say that!" "You are a crazy idiot!" Etc.

[creabots]

Thanks for the help, guys. This information has been extremely useful. I got more than I expected in just two posts

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm IEI now. I had a feeling that was more than making predictions, but I wanted to confirm it, I guess.

I do play a LOT of scenarios in my head. I found the part about information hitting you all at once to be especially applicable. I actually experienced that with those posts, even though I just kinda skimmed, I already had a feeling where it was going. I also get a lot of huches, as well.

As for the part about expecting things to go wrong, I sometimes get antsy myself, but there's always a side of me that expects that things just mgiht go right, so I'm usually not that uncomfortable with taking risks, I guess.

Anyway, I gotta go. I appreciate all your help

[ArchonAlarion]

np

[Jarno]

I don't entirely understand Ni.

1) Types aren't much aware of their lead function because it's to ordinairy. So finding/confirming your own type by trying to find your lead function isn't really effective.

2) If you do insist...maybe this helps: A behaviour most associated with Ni is daydreaming

[Brilliand]

2) If you do insist...maybe this helps: A behaviour most associated with Ni is daydreaming

I daydream, very often in fact. I suspect that applies to all N...

[creabots]

From what I understand is kind of like fiddling with ideas and making novel connections. I'm guessing Ni daydreaming revolves more around creating scenarios and mental landscapes rather than making connections in external world. I'm not a professional, however, and I assume there's more distinction than simply this.

What type of Daydreaming do you usually do, Brilliand?

[marooned]

Is this for real?

[calenwen]

Lol, really? Daydreaming? Doesn't everyone do this?

[creabots]

I feel like an idot.

Yeah, maybe EVERYONE daydreams, though I don't really know. What even constitute's daydreaming, anyway? All I really need is Archon's description, I think. That should be enough, if not forever then at least for now.

It probably was arrogant to assume that only intuitives daydream, but what can I do?awkwardness seems to be a constant in my life.

[marooned]

...

I wasn't trying to say you were an idiot... Sorry, I was skeptical about your identity... You should ignore me!

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Process of visualizing and inspecting, and developing mental images in motion in the mind's eye. Involves engaging in mental leaps in time, seeing the development of time, sensing time, having hunches, predictions, seeing concepts as metaphors, drawing analogies, detecting abstract nuances, diving into imagination, creating mental landscapes, interpreting symbolism, reading into events, statements, etc. Deep engagement of Ni results in a submersion into this mode to the shutting out of the user's immediate, external world's data. Ni, as an introverted function, is a function that takes place within an individual and does not involve the engagement of others.

Inspecting, yes, visualizing no. Developing mental images (visualization) isn't Ni. Anybody can do that with meditation. Visualizing is kind of an 'anti-thinking' exercise where you tap in your creative/artistic side of your brain and while I'm flattered that people stereotypically think INFp = good artist, my art is really shitty, and I have a hard time visualizing compared to a lot of people I know.

"Engaging in mental leaps in time." Yes I can see that. "Seeing the development of time." Good, but change this to 'being curious about the development of time.' I would change all the TIME stuff that gets so hooked up to Ni as more or less 'Ni shows a vested interest in time concepts.'

"Having hunches, predictions." Yes. That's good. "Seeing concepts as metaphors." Nah. "Drawing analogies." Hmm. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Wait a minute. Not quite, but you got the idea kinda. "Detecting abstract nuances." NO. That sounds WAY too art-fag like. I'm very crude and like the cock drool in gonzo p0rn. Subtle nuances my left foot. I'm all about the anvils baby and I think nuances are tiresome and overrated.

"Diving into imagination"- YES. But to a CERTAIN FUCKING POINT. We tend to like fantasy interlaced with many realistic concepts. "Creating mental landscapes." I like this, but it's just way too general. Technically, every function is a 'mental landscape'. And I highly doubt that Ni by itself creates those particular landscapes. So maybe rephrase that a bit better.

"Interpreting symbolism." Now you're thinking. Specific, and accurate. A+. "Reading into events, statements." YES!

"Ni, as an introverted function, is a function that takes place within an individual and does not involve the engagement of others."

Nope. The external reality and Ni still have some sort of connection, nothing can ever come completely from inside one self....because that's just not realistic. Also, *all* functions are inward psychological processes, even Se. So that makes no sense.

[creabots]

I didn't meant to make you feel uncomfortable Loki. I didn't take any offense, it's just that I felt really awkward about the things I said. Besides, I may very well be another type. Something must have given you a reason to supsect I'm not an IEI. I'm not sure myself, really. It's more of an assumption I'm going with for the time being. That is, until I can get some other people's opinion. I'm not in the mood to inform people about myself just yet, though I probably will do so after I get some sleep. With some more information in hand, you guys should have an easier time assessing my type

glamourama: These are my thoughts on the description of Ni you just gave:

This perceptual element provides information about the sequence of events and people's deeds, about their cause and effect relationship, and about participants' attitudes towards this — that is, about people's feelings that these relationships engender

Hmm...I don't know.

Such an individual perceives information from without as feelings about the future, past, and present. For example, a sense of hurriedness, calmness, or heatedness, a sense of timeliness or prematureness, a sense of proper or improper life rhythm, a sense of impending danger or safety, anticipation, fear of being late, a sense of seeing the future, anxiety about what lies ahead, and so forth

I do reflect on the past and future quite a bit. I don't understand what "heatedness" means. I can relate to the life rhythm part, but I don't think I have some preternatural sense (like ESP) concerning impending disaster or what not. I never had any "visions" of the future in dreams or otherwise, but I consider the possibilities of the future often. I suppose that's not unusual, however. I can get antsy about where events might be taking us.But my thoughts are more like explorations, not predictions.

Thus, a certain sense of time is an integral part of the individual's psychological state at any given moment.

This might not be true with me. Either it isn't, or it is and I'm just not aware of it. I'm not sure how the the latter is possible, however.

This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience

Planning for the future would be a lot easier if I weren't so inconsistent. Nonetheless, I try to get a sense of direction regarding where I'm going in life In fact, knowing so seems integral to my security.. I dropped out of college because I wasn't sure that I was going to use what I was going to major in. I was having second thoughts about my major, and I decided that some other career would perhaps have been more fulfilling. Now I'm considering going back to college, but I'm uncertain what I want to major in. Would I be more certain about where I wanted to go in life if Ni was my leading function? I read somewhere that people that value Ni have little sense of "living for the moment" and would rather work towards a given goal of where they would like to be in the future. This seems applicable to myself, but I don't exactly know what's best right now. I'm not entirely sure what it is that I want. I don't know what to do with my life right now, and that's something I'm working on. I always have to have some plan, however, even if I've changed course several times already.

When this element is in the leading position, the individual possesses innate strategic abilities and is able to choose the most optimal moments for different activities: when to give battle, if necessary, and when to avoid battle, when that would be more appropriate. Interaction in time might be interpreted as the ability to avoid collisions with objects and hence avoid objects' reflection within oneself.

I haven't been in any real crisis situations before, so I can't valididate the competence of my ability in this respect.

Conclusion: I don't know where Ni fits in my functions. I'd need the opinion of someone more knowledgable about functions and Ni and someone to explain anything that would help me in making a more accurate assessment.

[Jarno]

Sure everybody daydreams. Some do it 5 minutes a day, but some do nearly all day long, like me. I cannot work at anything without being distracted by my mind continually. Sure I might be a bit more extreme daydreamer, but it's something mentioned by Ni types often.

[ArchonAlarion]

I fuckin daydream alot. Like alot alot.

Has nothin to do with Ni.

I have a vivid imagination with many story arcs, settings, worlds, races, etc.

Please stop linking Ni to daydreaming in such a way

kthnx.

[marooned]

I do think that daydreaming and Ni are related. I personally don't daydream all that much.

[ArchonAlarion]

when the fuck did you become ISTj lol?

and not only are there other things that factor into it BUTTTTTTTTT

People daydream in different ways about different things.

[marooned]

when the fuck did you become ISTj lol?

and not only are there other things that factor into it BUTTTTTTTTT

People daydream in different ways about different things.

well, of course not all daydreamers are Ni daydreamers... and naturally not all Ni creatures are daydreamers... but! i do think it's related... being dreamy and daydreaming and lost inside the valleys of ones mind is associated characteristically (as a prominent characteristic of) with Ni... so if one's world, their life, their reality are defined by this sort of thing... AND they have the characteristics of Se DS, Si role, bla, bla, bla... then this may be a good indicator that Ni is lurking about in their ego block.

oh i was feeling like a robot, ISTj really matches how i feel for some reason. (eta: i'm not saying LSIs are robots!)

[Jarno]

I fuckin daydream alot. Like alot alot.

Has nothin to do with Ni.

I have a vivid imagination with many story arcs, settings, worlds, races, etc.

Please stop linking Ni to daydreaming in such a way

kthnx.

oke, then it's probably a general N thing.

[ArchonAlarion]

hmm, tbh its seems related to the following Elements:

Ti, Si, Ne, Fe (depends), Fi (Depends), Ni

Of course it depends on your definition of daydreaming.

Ti modes (like myself) spend a large amount of time ordering their heads, going over systems, analyzing events, streamlining lifestyle, etc.

But as Ne utility and Si agenda I also do a goodly amount of that environment generation and context creation, which I link to Si.

[marooned]

hmm, tbh its seems related to the following Elements:

Ti, Si, Ne, Fe (depends), Fi (Depends), Ni

Of course it depends on your definition of daydreaming.

Ti modes (like myself) spend a large amount of time ordering their heads, going over systems, analyzing events, streamlining lifestyle, etc.

But as Ne utility and Si agenda I also do a goodly amount of that environment generation and context creation, which I link to Si.

i think the primary idea is that Ni leading takes a great many sojourns into its own mind to the point of not being able to actually act in reality... so you can get stuck inside your own head going round and round, thinking about acting, thinking about lots of things, daydreaming, whatever, unable to escape... where the mind becomes a prison.

[creabots]

i think the primary idea is that Ni leading takes a great many sojourns into its own mind to the point of not being able to actually act in reality... so you can get stuck inside your own head going round and round, thinking about acting, thinking about lots of things, daydreaming, whatever, unable to escape... where the mind becomes a prison.

I can definitely relate to this. Anyway, I'm about to post my description.

[07490]

well, of course not all daydreamers are Ni daydreamers... and naturally not all Ni creatures are daydreamers... but! i do think it's related... being dreamy and daydreaming and lost inside the valleys of ones mind is associated characteristically (as a prominent characteristic of) with Ni... so if one's world, their life, their reality are defined by this sort of thing... AND they have the characteristics of Se DS, Si role, bla, bla, bla... then this may be a good indicator that Ni is lurking about in their ego block.

I do agree, Information Element is not that hard, Intuitive are prone not directing their energy Sensing their environment, are a bit in their head NI and NE have different kind of daydreaming and not in tune to what's going on at the very moment.

oh i was feeling like a robot, ISTj really matches how i feel for some reason. (eta: i'm not saying LSIs are robots!)

hehehehe

[creabots]

I'm not sure where I should begin. It usually takes me a while to collect my thoughts and have them surface in an intelligible fasshion. I find getting know people to be fulfilling, although I don't whether or not this is an IEI trait.

BTW, I'm not saying I am IEI, I just suspect there's a possibility at this point. People such as family members and teachers think I'm very intelligent, but my friends don't suspect that I'm any more intelligent than they are. I find intelligence to be a tricky subject to begin with, and I don't know if I'm really the intelligent.

I enjoy understanding things, but I don't like to collect "excess information", if that makes any sense to you. I'll read an article on whatever subject hoping that I can understand whatever mystery I'm currently obsessing over. Yes, I do obsess over stuff. I prefer discussing things with other people if it's helpful rather than reading articles. I can spend a long time listening to other people talk.

I enjoy listening to personal stories and telling some of my own with friends.

Some peoplel get the impression that I am analytical because I enjoy pondering assorted concepts and desire to understand things, but my logic tends to be somewhat sloppy. I hate it when my reveries are interupted.

I'm awful at chores, and if I'm not active for only a few seconds I unconsciously drift away thinking about something. This irritates my parents. I'm awful at locating other objects. Someone will tell me where an object is and I can spend several seconds searching for it. This sometime causes frustration for the other person, because they think it should be obvious.

This is probably enough information for now. Perhaps I'll list some more details later, if necessary.

[07490]

I used to daydream often, but now I hardly ever do it. Though, I could see how someone using Ni could look as if they're dreaming or spaced out.

I think an example or a kind of diagram of Ni is to gaze into the night sky. Note the stars and distant galaxies sprung out among the deepness of space. The space between them would represent time/space, while the stars would represent bodies of information, or form. Now create or find a constellation by connecting the stars to form a shape, or look at a cluster of stars in relation to one another. This is how I envision Ni.

I am going to try it tonight looking at the sky.

[Trevor]

Yeah, daydreaming is a N thing. Btw..Òîíêàÿ ñòðóêòóðà ôàêòîðà èíòóèöèè-ñåíñîðèêè

[1981slater]

Yeah, daydreaming is a N thing. Btw..Òîíêàÿ ñòðóêòóðà ôàêòîðà èíòóèöèè-ñåíñîðèêè

There is so much Socionics stuff in Russian...

[Trevor]

There is so much Socionics stuff in Russian...

Yeah, and this awesome Talanov guy will bring death to socionics as we know it now. Everyone should read his works. I wonder...almost 30 years of socionics..no one to conduct some kind of serious scientific research..till 2006 and Talanov..I mean..factor analysis and stuff existed way before AD 06.

[Jarno]

Yeah, and this awesome Talanov guy will bring death to socionics as we know it now.

That's a pretty important statement. Do you have any more info on that, or can you summarize it in a couple of lines. Russian sites never work that well for me.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

'Imagination' is better than 'daydreaming.' 'Creating/interlapping inner worlds (still based on realistic, pragmatic concepts so you can still RELATE to them)' is better than 'living in a fantasy world.' 'Being intuitive' is better than 'an airy fag that can't pay attention to external objects because they're too busy living in some make-believe fairy tale.'

Please be accurate and respectful to the IEIs (and all Ni-egos) instead of looking at us in stereotypical ways.

It's just basic respect.

Otherwise you make Ni sound like some 'ghostly' function with no substance.

You have the right idea though.

[marooned]

'Imagination' is better than 'daydreaming.' 'Creating/interlapping inner worlds (still based on realistic, pragmatic concepts so you can still RELATE to them)' is better than 'living in a fantasy world.' 'Being intuitive' is better than 'an airy fag that can't pay attention to external objects because they're too busy living in some make-believe fairy tale.'

Are you addressing yourself?

Please be accurate and respectful to the IEIs (and all Ni-egos) instead of looking at us in stereotypical ways.

BnD doesn't want to be an airy fag who doesn't see external objects because he lives on an internet forum. So any association made between Ni and "daydreaming" can't be valid because that would imply BnD is indeed an airy fag living in a fantasy world? So it should be called "imagination" instead. <Enter those who declare "Ni is not imagination!" in every thread.>

It's just basic respect.

Otherwise you make Ni sound like some 'ghostly' function with no substance.

But, , if you're afraid of being a daydreaming air fairy, why are you taking it out on Ni! That's your deal.

Anyway I don't really care what Ni is anymore.

[Sirena]

FWIW, I relate a lot to how you've described yourself and I also relate to the vibe I'm getting from you. Welcome!

@Loki: are you still unsure about your type?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Are you addressing yourself?

No. I'm addressing everybody, as to what Ni is.

BnD doesn't want to be an airy fag who doesn't see external objects because he lives on an internet forum. So any association made between Ni and "daydreaming" can't be valid because that would imply BnD is indeed an airy fag living in a fantasy world?

Being imaginative is just more precisely accurate to me, then 'daydreaming' is.

But, , if you're afraid of being a daydreaming air fairy, why are you taking it out on Ni! That's your deal.

Point blank, I think I understand my dominant function better than all of you put combined. You're only going by what you can view of me completely externally. Unlike other Betas, you really don't know what Ni is, to be more exact. Of course superficially it looks like I 'daydream' often. But I really don't. =/

Anyway I don't really care what Ni is anymore.

That's fine. But please don't get angry with me just because I like to challenge peoples' conceptions about things.

[Creepy-male]

i think the primary idea is that Ni leading takes a great many sojourns into its own mind to the point of not being able to actually act in reality... so you can get stuck inside your own head going round and round, thinking about acting, thinking about lots of things, daydreaming, whatever, unable to escape... where the mind becomes a prison.

By that logic, I would be Ni-ego.

Does not work.

Being stuck in my head = Ti DS. And social anxiety... there's that too.

[marooned]

Being imaginative is just more precisely accurate to me, then 'daydreaming' is.

I don't see how one is any more a "stereotype" or "misconception" than another quite frankly... they could both be termed "stereotypes". Everyone dreams, everyone daydreams, everyone imagines, everyone envisions, everyone everythings. Sigh.

That's fine. But please don't get angry with me just because I like to challenge peoples' conceptions about things.

I wasn't really angry. I was afraid it would look that way. I probably did react that way because I thought you might be addressing me without addressing me directly and I didn't want to just try to do the same thing.

By that logic, I would be Ni-ego.

Does not work.

I don't think it works either.

[Trevor]

That's a pretty important statement. Do you have any more info on that..

Of course.

..or can you summarize it in a couple of lines. .

Sure, I can.

[Park]

Lol, really? Daydreaming? Doesn't everyone do this?

Yeah, exactly. Talk about socionics stereotypes...

[marooned]

okay! iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields iternal dynamics of fields