Where is Gul in all this mess? Let's discuss 3w4

[Creepy-male]

Whatever my actual type is, I am undoubtedly sx/sp. This is fairly certain in my mind. So you can stick that so in your pipe 'n smoke it, thanks.

Let's look at the case for Three:

Strong need to pinpoint and define who I actually am. I feel like a nebulous misty mass of everyone. And to me, that sucks. (I'll discuss Four later.)

Unconsciously acting up a particular part based on how I think that should be. Just look at my entrance to these forums when I tried to tell everyone I was a SEI

Actively working on a particular image I want to project.

And for Seven:

Mach 10 mind. I'm also unreasonably proud of this.

I am a serious quitter. Seriously. I recall moving between enthusiastic and excited to deflated in bored in the span of 20 minutes (when I was working on typing Australian PMs).

I learn things quickly, but generally not in any significant depth. I paraphrase a schoolfriend: "It worries me sometimes when you don't know what I'm talking about. It's so unusual."

I am morbidly afraid of boredom. I'm scared shitless of it. Been there, done that... and I don't want it to happen again.

Related to the above, I have a miracle ability to find something--anything--to do, even if it gets as far as meditating (but this is my Last Resort).

Against Seven:

Why am I still worrying about this after four years? Why don't I go in for "elaborate future planning" or "work"? I don't count being a recreation junkie as "working"--but if the point is just that it's phrenetic activity, I could pay that.

Against Three:

On the one hand, I don't want people to fall in love with an illusion. I don't want that to dilute The Real Human Experience. On the other, I work hard on making a specific impression that serves my own ends. This is confusing for me.

More points:

I'm not ruling out Four. I think it's likely.

I'm a freakin' teenager. This is probably pretty normal.

I forgot what I was going to put here.

[unefille]

I don't want to sound harsh here, but NO.

Let's look at the case for Three:

Strong need to pinpoint and define who I actually am. I feel like a nebulous misty mass of everyone. And to me, that sucks. (I'll discuss Four later.)

Unconsciously acting up a particular part based on how I think that should be. Just look at my entrance to these forums when I tried to tell everyone I was a SEI

Actively working on a particular image I want to project.

None of these go beyond the mere surface of three-ish image issues and they're not exactly correct anyway. Threes are not the only people in the world who project an image or who attempt to 'improve' themselves. And threes don't feel like a 'nebulous misty mass of everyone' nor are they often aware of their 'lack of identity'. Which by the way, I have. And also, threes craft themselves to fit their images -- your 'identity changes' through like, a 3rd of socion involved NO change in you and mostly just barraging the message board trying to convince people you were a certain type by announcing you were whilst the tone of your posts and the way in which you conducted yourself remained typically ADD-esque and hyper. Threes don't 'announce'; they let others recognise when they've become.

Good luck with your identity search.

[Creepy-male]

Sweet! You've ruled out Three. Seeing as how you are one, and with the same stacking, I'll say that Three is permanently discarded as an option.

And comments on Fours?

[Mediator Kam]

7w1 rick subtype.

[ArchonAlarion]

7w1 rick subtype.

Preposterous!

[Creepy-male]

7w1 rick subtype.

7w9 Gul suptype.

[MellowMarcello]

You are almost as georgeous as me!

[Creepy-male]

You are almost as georgeous as me!

I agree with this conclusion.

[Creepy-male]

I now think I'm a 9w8. I'm still not entirely sure about my stacking beyond sp-last, though.

• I find myself increasingly detached from things that seem like heady romanticism or idealism. "What has this got to do with me and my world?"
• I tend to easily become angry and pick fights. This is self-evident if you've been following my forum behaviour over a decent period of time. The thing is, I get bored or calm down and suddenly don't want to be involved in something unpleasant and straining like ongoing conflict.
• Day-to-day, I'm probably much more focused on sensory and "Si things"*. I appreciate that this isn't the face I show the world, and that many of you probably are scratching your heads (Krig especially, am I right?)
• I'm very impulsive.
• When I'm focused on getting something done, I get it done on impulse. It itches at me madly otherwise.
• E9 in general, but a subtle difference to highlight, considering the above point: I'm a slacker, and often wind up distracted from doing things I don't really want to do.
• I'm basically shy, but once I feel invited to be open, I'm very gregarious**. I need that invitation however, or I'm very reserved and polite.
• I don't consider myself intellectual. I do come from a background of swanky private education, and I'm reasonably intelligent, however.
• Related to the above, I'm highly intuitive.
• Most people seem to wind up liking me, with no active involvement on my part.

*There's a quote about Nines:

"The inner landscape of the Nine resembles someone riding a bicycle on a beautiful day, enjoying everything about the flow of the experience. The whole picture, the entire situation, is what is pleasant and identified with rather than any particular part. The inner world of Nines is this experience of effortless oneness: their sense of self comes from being at one with their experience. Naturally, they would like to preserve the quality of oneness with the environment as much as possible."

"Si stuff" for me is like the guy on the bicycle. Like, going out for a walk on a balmy Autumn evening, feeling the wind, hearing the trees rustling, and just sinking into experiencing everything happening around me. This is part of the reason why I so strongly identified with being Si DS: I had DS and Base confused. Because, you know, your DS is the driving, central force in your existence, right? The thing you absolutely focus on above all else?

**Ishaquote. "You're very gregarious for a shy person. In fact, you're very gregarious for a non-shy person."

[UDP]

I think going to college will make you reevaluate yourself, which is good. I'm rather skeptical about a w8. I think the conception of yourself as an SEI 9w8 is a bit odd, but, I think it may be good in that you're reconfiguring things.

I speculate: you're dealing with new experience, especially in regard to "E8 things" like sexuality, aggressiveness, "challenge" "lust", etc in a new way.

I think it may be more likely that you're "not SEI", although I still see that the case, or simply not E9. I think it's also important to consider what it means to be a certain enneagram type.

I think it is good to see what happens when you experience a brand new social setting like this at college - you should be figuring some things out about yourself as you do. So enjoy the exploration.


PS: also, I don't really notice any changes in you that would indicate you're actually not 9w1.

[UDP]

I now think I'm a 9w8. I'm still not entirely sure about my stacking beyond sp-last, though.

• I find myself increasingly detached from things that seem like heady romanticism or idealism. "What has this got to do with me and my world?"

I think that's just maturing somewhat, becoming more healthy.

• I tend to easily become angry and pick fights. This is self-evident if you've been following my forum behaviour over a decent period of time. The thing is, I get bored or calm down and suddenly don't want to be involved in something unpleasant and straining like ongoing conflict.

Picking fights isn't related to "8ness". Maybe you're just experiening a testosterone rush being around so many GIRLSSSSS

Day-to-day, I'm probably much more focused on sensory and "Si things"*. I appreciate that this isn't the face I show the world, and that many of you probably are scratching your heads (Krig especially, am I right?

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. That seems to imply more that you're... you know, Si ego, or something like that.

• I'm very impulsive. Ok?
  
• When I'm focused on getting something done, I get it done on impulse. It itches at me madly otherwise. That doesn't really mean anything, maybe just irrationality / catering to Si somehow
• E9 in general, but a subtle difference to highlight, considering the above point: I'm a slacker, and often wind up distracted from doing things I don't really want to do. Ok
• I'm basically shy, but once I feel invited to be open, I'm very gregarious**. I need that invitation however, or I'm very reserved and polite. That is not at all uncommon for SEIs, or sometimes Fi valuing people.
• I don't consider myself intellectual. I do come from a background of swanky private education, and I'm reasonably intelligent, however. Well you must be very proud of yourself.
• Related to the above, I'm highly intuitive. But not in a socionics way, right?
• Most people seem to wind up liking me, with no active involvement on my part. reminds me of some ethical types.
  

**Ishaquote. "You're very gregarious for a shy person. In fact, you're very gregarious for a non-shy person."

I'm not sure how to interpret the meaning of that.

Perhaps that's actually pointing away from 9w8, because, they aren't exactly flamboyant in some stereotypes of them. (Think clint eastwood).

[Creepy-male]

I think going to college will make you reevaluate yourself, which is good. I'm rather skeptical about a w8. I think the conception of yourself as an SEI 9w8 is a bit odd, but, I think it may be good in that you're reconfiguring things.

One distinction I've picked up on is "bodily 9" vs "mental 9". Any Senser makes sense as a 9w8, thus. Plus, I can drag DCNH into this and say that I'm a C-SEI with strengthened Se (BG is possibly another 9w8, and I would say he's a H-SEI with strengthened Si; similarity: both are "more sensory" than either D- or N- SEIs (think Kam and Bee, one is E4 for sure, the other either of 9w1 or E4)). Ishaquote: "You're not meek". But I'm definitely accommodating and self-effacing like you would expect a Nine to be, and I have other SEI-like qualities that mix in with being E9 as well.

This'll be a bit of a "bear with me" paragraph until I actually get some decent arguments in.

I speculate: you're dealing with new experience, especially in regard to "E8 things" like sexuality, aggressiveness, "challenge" "lust", etc in a new way.

It's more like the converse: I think a lot of my personality has been obscured by my super-ego, which I'm in the process of gradually telling to put a sock in it. Anyway, this is only a small part of why I think I'm 9w8; the main things are trying to account for various aspects of myself that come up thinking back on how I tend to act.

I think it may be more likely that you're "not SEI", although I still see that the case, or simply not E9. I think it's also important to consider what it means to be a certain enneagram type.

At this point, I would find it hard to accept any typing other than SEI or E9.

PS: also, I don't really notice any changes in you that would indicate you're actually not 9w1.

That's good, because 9w1->9w8 is not because of "I've changed". As I said above, it's mostly considering who I am/how I act or have behaved in the past.

EDIT

In your latest post, you were addressing an Enneagram discussion in Socionics terms :/

Then again, so was I.

[UDP]

If it works for you a few weeks from now, too, then I won't have any major problems with it. BG is an interesting example.

[electric sheep]

You're nothing like BG, imo.

typewatch material:

9w8 is about calmness(nine) from a position of strength(eight). They choose to be calm as opposed to feeling they have to maintain being calm to avoid conflict or estrangement like a 9w1. They don't invite conflict but don't shy away from it either as they nip conflict in the bud as quickly as possible. They are the most "chill" of the instinctive triaders. They have the best balance in their personal boundaries as they are halfway in between being a doormat and dominating others. This is why they are generally the most likeable of all subtypes.

9w8 is called the "comfort-seeker" and wants to make life easier for themselves. They are firmly grounded in their bodies with an emphasis on being physically comfortable. Hardly anything bothers them. They aren't nearly as hard on themselves as 9w1s. They are easygoing but can be direct with others if forced out of their comfort zone as they are much more assertive than their 9w1 siblings. While they have a bias towards letting things work out on their own they have no problem stepping in and settling things.

Didn't you once say relaxing bothers you? That's very un-9like. I thought you were right on with 6w7. You have that authority complex

Pretty sure you're so/sx, but you might be so/sp too, don't rule that out.

[Creepy-male]

You're nothing like BG, imo.

Not like him. I agree. I never said I was. My point was that 9w8 SEI is not implausible, and that it may be a result of being a "Sensory SEI" instead of an "Ethical SEI".

Didn't you once say relaxing bothers you? That's very un-9like. I thought you were right on with 6w7. You have that authority complex

No, I said that I tend to become sad as I relax. I enjoy relaxing, it's just that it causes some emotional sadness to surface as part of the process. I was curious as to why that was.

Please also define "authority complex". My relationship with authority is really that we needn't ever interact, and I try to keep it that way. I guess I also tend to not acknowledge authority figures as such: they're neither people I need to comply to nor rebel against out of fear of punishment; I'm compliant because I don't want unneeded attention messing with my world.

Pretty sure you're so/sx, but you might be so/sp too, don't rule that out.

so/sp is "the collected engager". Do I seem more collected or more scattered to you?

[electric sheep]

well yea but BG is a 9w8 and he's SEI. He shys away from conflict way more than you do. Besides, 9w8 is not just a 9w1 that's more comfortable with conflict. 9w8s want to maintain that inner peace just as much as 9w1s. They're not "ok" with conflict, they disconnect themselves from it to preserve their own inner peace. Sure, George Bush Jr. might have started two wars and turned the United States into the villains of the world, but he sleeps like a baby. 9w8s generally don't question themselves, or it takes a lot for them to reach that point, because that would disturb their inner peace.

Authority complex - you aren't sure who to follow, who to listen to, who to trust. Not authority like they can tell you what to do, but authority like you listen to them and trust them. You do that "pinballing" where you believe one person, but they turn out to be wrong and so you look for someone else to guide you. Did you ever read my http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...29023-6w7.html thread?

so/sp is "the collected engager". Do I seem more collected or more scattered to you?

You might be. My sp instinct is really weak, so I'm sorta borderline so/sp or so/sx. It was just a thought, really.
I don't think you're a "sensual player" though

so/sp has a less personal way of communicating, or at least that's how it's portrayed. I think I prefer one on one situations to groups, but there are perks to socializing in groups.

Ishaquote: "You're not meek". But I'm definitely accommodating and self-effacing like you would expect a Nine to be, and I have other SEI-like qualities that mix in with being E9 as well.

9w8s are not accommodating or self-effacing. 6w7s can be though
My last roommate (6w7) was like an epic example of this. He was ESE though...

but hey if 9 doesn't work out and neither does 6, there's alllllwaayys 3w2 I wouldn't give you a 1 fix though, you dont seem to have the pent up anger like I do, and you just seem sunnier.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think the enneatypes are just guideposts. I think you have all types inside of you at all times, and the problem is being fixated on any one type. I mean you're at your healthiest, anybody is- when they're not so hung up on their identity, they're just living life and being themselves, right?

If you let things go to your head so much, you start saying things like 'I can't do this because I'm not that type of person.' It's really limiting, although we'll always have preferences, and that's okay! You're still unique and an individual, in fact MORE unique and more individual when you stop worrying about what type you are.

You can be a 9 and a 6 at the same time, even a 6 and 4 at the same time which is what I'm usually at. You can even have days when you feel like a 1, 8 and 4.

The true nature of our inner realities and internal realms are transient. They are like colors that change. They aren't something fixed. You all are needlessly institutionalizing yourselves. The whole point of enneagram is that, you aren't a 'type' you need to integrate all the parts of yourself.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You need to reconnect your identity with all the outside world, and pay attention and realize that, (numbers not necessarily correlated with their enneagram type)

1. 'Okay it's time for me to be emo and introspective here'
2. 'It's time for me to make art.'
3. 'It's time for me to challenge that other person, call them out on their shit.'
4. 'It's time for me to work on my image and external success.'
5. 'It's time for me to do a varied array of activities until I get it right.'
6. 'It's time for me to be logical and analytical here.'

and etc. etc.

[Creepy-male]

9w8s - sensual, firmly grounded in their bodies; emphasis on physical comforts; generally easy going but with a volcanic and expansive anger when forced by others to leave their comfort-zone
9w1s - idealistic, cerebral; can resemble E5s; emphasis on (day-) dreams of union and harmony; willing to repress and/or ignore many negative impulses in self and others but react with an indignant anger towards those who are perceived to be ruining the peace

I'm not sure how to interpret the meaning of that.

Perhaps that's actually pointing away from 9w8, because, they aren't exactly flamboyant in some stereotypes of them. (Think clint eastwood).

w8 = extravert Nine, w1 = introvert Nine.

"To speak English, 9w1 are more quiet and reserve than the 9w8 would be of the same variants. 9w8 are more energized by the 8 wing and would show anger more than 9w1 would because 1s have more of a repressing style of anger. Social 9w8 would be more outgoing than a Social 9w1, or a Self-preservation 9w1 would be more reserve and quiet than a SP 9w8. "

well yea but BG is a 9w8 and he's SEI. He shys away from conflict way more than you do. Besides, 9w8 is not just a 9w1 that's more comfortable with conflict. 9w8s want to maintain that inner peace just as much as 9w1s. They're not "ok" with conflict, they disconnect themselves from it to preserve their own inner peace. Sure, George Bush Jr. might have started two wars and turned the United States into the villains of the world, but he sleeps like a baby. 9w8s generally don't question themselves, or it takes a lot for them to reach that point, because that would disturb their inner peace.

You're making assumptions about my reasoning. Fair enough, I only provided a bunch of dot points without linking it to "Why I consider myself 9w8", so it isn't your fault.

My point was not that "I'm 9w8 because I'm a Nine who is happy with conflict", it's that I'm never angry up until the point where something sets me off, then I have a hard time containing that. This is something that crops up again and again when 9w8s are being discussed: w8 means they're more obviously expressive of anger, where a w1 would repress that anger (in the style of a One).

Authority complex - you aren't sure who to follow, who to listen to, who to trust. Not authority like they can tell you what to do, but authority like you listen to them and trust them. You do that "pinballing" where you believe one person, but they turn out to be wrong and so you look for someone else to guide you. Did you ever read my http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...29023-6w7.html thread?

This hasn't been an issue for me in a long time. It was really only happening when I wasn't confident in my Socionics knowledge, leading to seeking advice and opinions, and then being unable to evaluate all the messages I got. It's like coming up to a sign that says "Stop", next to a sign that says "Go", next to a sign that says "Do a barrel roll!" Which one is it? Argh!

Anyway, what you're rather misusing "pinballing", I think. I tend to move rather slowly through various sources I get to think for me. Does that really conjure images of frenetic ricocheting?

The other thing to consider is, I don't use an authority to get security. I've used "authorities" as a way of minimising cognitive dissonance and as a solution to my inability to evaluate arguments well, because I'm not fond of being confused and stuck inside my head, walking in circles.

9w8s are not accommodating or self-effacing. 6w7s can be though
My last roommate (6w7) was like an epic example of this. He was ESE though...

9w8s are E9. E9s are accommodating and self-effacing. Especially when dealing with intimates, you're going to wind up with the E9 manifesting their fixation, regardless of wing. Look here: healthy and unhealthy loops.

This is something I recently had to deal with. In a situation where I was deeply disappointed by someone close to me, my reaction was to try and swallow it and tell the niggle that wants me to make myself know to shut up. I called actually expressing that niggle and asserting myself "Angry Gul". (Confusing assertion and aggression... which enneatype does that sound like to you? How about trying to ignore my own frustrated needs and desires? Don't say E7...)

"I don't want to risk being separated from what I feel connected to, so I'll just let things fly or not express myself." <- unhealthy thoughts, and what I tend to do. I've had several of my close relationships slowly strangled to death through this.

Assertive Gul wound up being a good thing, and led to me being happy, so I've learned my lesson about expressing and asserting myself. I'm a Nine who's learned how to assert himself, regardless of my wing.

9w8s are not immune to this habit either. They're the "passive-aggressive slackers". Yes means "maybe", and maybe means "absolutely not". From a 9w8:

"the 9w8 will get angry, it takes a bit and the first response is quiet, stuborn resistance, but after awhile I will blow up and then watch out."

but hey if 9 doesn't work out and neither does 6, there's alllllwaayys 3w2 I wouldn't give you a 1 fix though, you dont seem to have the pent up anger like I do, and you just seem sunnier.

Six is wrong. I've only manifested Sixey behaviours in periods of extended trying to erase myself, where all the stewing things that I don't express wind up with me become intensely emotional and confused. Integration to Three--actually expressing myself--is the other option, where I'm happy and not those other two things.

Anyway, all the stuff I've mentioned means Three is an unrealistic typing, to say the least.

At any rate, it's not a productive discussion trying to tell me I'm anything other than a Nine. This is about whether I'm 9w1 or 9w8. Of secondary importance, figuring out my stackings (I did read what you posted aobut that, sheep, don't worry).

[electric sheep]

When I'm focused on getting something done, I get it done on impulse. It itches at me madly otherwise.
E9 in general, but a subtle difference to highlight, considering the above point: I'm a slacker, and often wind up distracted from doing things I don't really want to do.
I'm basically shy, but once I feel invited to be open, I'm very gregarious**. I need that invitation however, or I'm very reserved and polite.

These point to 3w2 imo. I would say the same things about myself. I need that invitation because I feel awkward just demanding everyone's attention. That's a very image conscious way of interacting with people. Feeling that itching need to get things done, that doesn't sound like a 9 at all. Remember: inner peace...

This is something I recently had to deal with. In a situation where I was deeply disappointed by someone close to me, my reaction was to try and swallow it and tell the niggle that wants me to make myself know to shut up. I called actually expressing that niggle and asserting myself "Angry Gul". (Confusing assertion and aggression... which enneatype does that sound like to you? How about trying to ignore my own frustrated needs and desires? Don't say E7...)

Sounds like the opposite of 7. Probably 1 or 3, I dunno. A few years ago if anyone told me I was a 3, I would have laughed in their face too. Playing Everquest/WoW for 16 hours a day will do that. I went through the whole 5 or 9 thing, then 9w8 or 9w1, whatever. I'm just too assertive for 9. I have a lot of 9ish ideals, but ultimately I'm a 3. 3 is a hard type to pin down, there are so many different ways of expressing it. Every 3 is hard to get to know. Some 3s make themselves out to be greater than what they really are, and some make themselves out to be less. Not all 3s are attention whores, some are actually very nice. 3, 7, and 8 are the assertive types. 7 and 8 don't really care what people think about them, so they usually don't have any trouble telling people off. 3s have a lot of image/identity issues they need to work out before they can stand up for themselves. Being preoccupied with what people think of you can get in the way of asserting yourself.

Why do you try to keep your anger under wraps? I'm not really sure how 9s deal with their anger, but they seem disconnected with it. It's not like they're trying to hold themselves back, they're just completely out of touch with it. 1s are the types that have to hold themselves back. For me, I think getting angry just makes me look bad and the consequences of it are terrible, but the harder I try to keep it from showing, the more ways it has of unexpectedly showing itself. That's just my 1 fix though, I don't suppose you feel the same way.

"I don't want to risk being separated from what I feel connected to, so I'll just let things fly or not express myself." <- unhealthy thoughts, and what I tend to do. I've had several of my close relationships slowly strangled to death through this.

So are you really a 9, or would you consider this disintegration to 9, because I do it too.

At any rate, it's not a productive discussion trying to tell me I'm anything other than a Nine. This is about whether I'm 9w1 or 9w8. Of secondary importance, figuring out my stackings (I did read what you posted aobut that, sheep, don't worry)..

Heyyyy, what's all this talk about productivity. You sound like a 3.

[Creepy-male]

Do I look more like an E8 or an E1 to you?

Another way of asking, which of E8 and E1 am I more reminiscent of, in your opinion?

[krieger]

Definitely neither.

[Creepy-male]

Definitely neither.

Between the two?

I'm not questioning my type, btw. It really is just a random question.

[Brilliand]

As this is a "more" question, I would consider it proper to indicate that 6 is closer to 3551 than it is to 3892, so to speak...

I would favor E8.

[717495]

Which one do you personally think?

[Creepy-male]

Which one do you personally think?

Without a mirror, can I see my own eyes?

[Creepy-male]

As this is a "more" question, I would consider it proper to indicate that 6 is closer to 3551 than it is to 3892, so to speak...

I would favor E8.

*thread galvanise*

Why E8?

[Brilliand]

*thread galvanise*

Why E8?

I view E1 as primarily rigid, whereas E8 gives me the impression of competence or confidence; I find the latter to fit you better than the former. That is, as Diana noted, "not rigid" is a defining trait of yours; and E1 is more distinctly rigid than E8 is.

[krieger]

Situation: Gulanzon identifies with E9, the enneagram dictates he should identify with E1 and E8 too but one slightly more than the other.

Options:
- choose E1
- choose E8
- reject the enneagram

Easy choice.

[Creepy-male]

Situation: Gulanzon identifies with E9, the enneagram dictates he should identify with E1 and E8 too but one slightly more than the other.

mind-reader.

Nah, it's actually related to what I've read about sx Nines resembling one of the two adjacent types on the outside. Just as an exercise, I wanted to see what people on the outside thought I resembled more.

[Brilliand]

I still think of you as 7, which would make 8 closer and 1... well... apparently you haven't integrated to 1 in the time that I've known you.

Hey, how about 3? Right between 2 and 4, a nice margin.

[electric sheep]

All these identity problems make you sound like a 3 btw.

[Creepy-male]

All these identity problems make you sound like a 3 btw.

This really has very little bearing on my identity.

[electric sheep]

This thread is a very image triad thing to do. You seem concerned with how people see you.

Are you basing your identity on how people perceive you?

don't you think your type is part of your identity?

[Creepy-male]

Are you basing your identity on how people perceive you?

Nah, it's actually related to what I've read about sx Nines resembling one of the two adjacent types on the outside. Just as an exercise, I wanted to see what people on the outside thought I resembled more.

This thread has nothing to do with my identity.

[electric sheep]

ok Mr. Assertive

You care too much about what people think to resemble 8 in any way. There, I said it.

[UDP]

The way you go about a lot of things makes me wonder about either8 or 1.
I'm not sure an 9w8 would have the mood / emotional issues you have.

the previous post is also relevant

[Creepy-male]

Any ideas? How would I go about figuring this out?

[Creepy-male]

Here is where I would start, but I am very top down about this.... I'm assuming you know enough about yourself on the "ground" level for this to be useful.

But the heart fix is about a single issue, concisely stated that is....

"Am I a worthy human being"

It's your feelings of self-worth... emphasis on FEELINGS of worth. Very much like self-esteem in a way. The three types represent orientations, strategies, and viewpoints surrounding this issue of self-worth.

2's look externally for this self-worth, looking to help others out, so they feel validated as a person through their compassionate acts, the downside is... they can become possessive and have a hidden agenda to help to make themselves feel worthy rather than out of genuine compassion.

4's look internally for this self-worth, looking to find what makes them unique and special in themselves and therefore worthy.... they can become withdrawn though and self-doubting, which appears to others as self-absorbion and unhealthy fantasy and wish fulfillment. What drives this unhealthy fantasy is the feeling they are mundane and worthless, so they spend time idealizing themselves as what they'd like to be, but aren't... given enough time this can lead to delusions about their self-image and their fantasies begin taking on a darker tinge to them. 4's also while withdrawn, see this uniqueness in others, making them a romantic, but like themselves they struggle with over idealization of their mates and fantasy. It's typical for 4's to be in love with an idealization of another person and completely unavailable to the real person, because they are withdrawn and self absorbed.

3's look to balance the internal and external aspects of self-worth, looking to find a way to integrate what's unique in them with the world around them in a productive no-nonsense way. They aren't as clingy and possessive as the 2, and not as emo as the 4, but they suffer a completely different way. Their integration between the external world and internal world is down primarily through their self-image, and they can fall into the problem of loosing their authenticity by becoming overly focus on the image. At first the idea is the image presents the internal self to the outer world as a form of expression, but when unhealthy, the image becomes more important than the inner self. They back down and form a faccade to put only a good foot forward in society, modeling their image after the idea of success in the society they are in. They become phony and narcissistic.



This information of course is all useless unless you have a good sense of understanding about you on the "grounded" level, and by that I mean, understanding how you actually behave and feel in everyday life. You should take some time to examine your thoughts/feelings/experience on the issue of self-worth, and then try to connect the material here with that information.

It's pretty clear once you do that... I can for example without a doubt identify myself as e4w3. Wings are also important to establish orientation and leaning. In truth everything with the enneagram is more fluid and gradient like in my opinion than 9 little boxes.... the boxes are just a convenient way to think, but once you understand these, you can go about the deconstruction of these boundaries.

[Aleksei]

The heart fix represents shame -- how one copes with feelings of worthlessness. 2 copes with shame by seeking to be liked and appreciated by others. 3 seeks to suppress its shame entirely by presenting an image of success to the outside world. 4s cope by accepting themselves as they are, and convincing themselves that if other people don't like them for it, then fuck them.

2w3 fix sounds right for you imo. 5w4 actually doesn't though.