New names for certain types -- proposal

[JuJu]

Some types are poorly named, e.g. a fictional, 16th century character for EIEs... Somewhat obscure Russian generals, etc. The lesser-known Huxley (!)

Now that there are a few people in the English-speaking socionics community who know what they're talking about, I think we should consider making our own monikers so more people can more easily understand the types, without extensive research.

E.g. SLE could be Marlon Brando, or Frank Sinatra. EIE could be John Lennon. Etc. (We should probably try to do a guy and a girl for each type.)

I know that this has been talked about before... But now I think it's a good idea. It could help more people find Socionics. Also, it could bring about a better understanding of the types.

[1981slater]

My proposal:

ENTp Gregory House
ISFp
INTj Michael Scofield
ESFj

ESTp Tyler Durden
INFp
ISTj Agent Smith
ENFj

ESFp
INTp
ISFj Ellen Ripley
ENTj Montgomery Burns

ENFp Johnny Utah
ISTp
INFj
ESTj William Wallace

[Smilingeyes]

My proposal:

ENTp Gregory House
ISFp
INTj Michael Scofield
ESFj

ESTp Tyler Durden
INFp
ISTj Agent Smith
ENFj

ESFp
INTp
ISFj Ellen Ripley
ENTj Montgomery Burns

ENFp Johnny Utah
ISTp
INFj
ESTj William Wallace

Given that just about all those types are wrong... A joke?

[1981slater]

Given that just about all those types are wrong... A joke?

Well, I think I typed them right. Which ones are wrong?

[JuJu]

Good job, ifmd95!

I like those...

Let's try to get some people who are somewhat timeless, you know..? Not just fly by nights... I like Bono as EIE. Cousteau is perfect for ESE. Putin and Merkel are alright too... The others are slightly obscure.

The goal of this would be to make finding one's type easier for English-speakers -- and to make Socionics more accessible in general to people outside pseudo-academia.

[buckland]

Guess for these, a male and a female would be needed for easy identification, plus of relatively decent repute thereby reducing bias in choosing type. How do these fit in

Einstein - ILE
KT Tunstall/Johnny Depp (xEI at the very least) - SEI
Madonna - SLE (maybe SEE, I am not sure)
Angelina Jolie/Harrison Ford - SLI
Anthony Hopkins/Catherine Zeta Jones (Judy Dench maybe) - LSI
Nicole Kidman - LII
Jennifer Aniston - IEI

That's all I can think about right now.

ps: i always get this alpha SF feel from Tyra Banks (), though who wouldn't want her in their quadra :wink:.

[JuJu]

Good, Buckland.

Madonna would be a great female SLE exemplar. I think we should go with that.

Kidman's probably one of the best we're going to get for female LIIs... You know, unless Carla becomes famous.

Some of the others are slightly off, or disputed... Not sure about your SLIs, although a lot of people agree with you... Johnny Depp, a lot of people here would dispute. Anthony Hopkins is ENFj.

An easy choice for SEI would be Paul McCartney -- one of the most blatant and least controversial typings possible.

[Gilly]

Personally I think Oppenheimer was EIE, at least from what I've heard of him from shows on the History Channel: charismatic, an unconventional thinker, and somehow cooperated very easily with most high-ranking military officials he dealt with in the course of the Manhattan Project.

In any case, he's a bit of an obscure figure to use for a "benchmark."

Bono might be good for EIE.

What about Brian Warner (aka Marilyn Manson) for IEI?

Tyler Durden is a good example of an SLE, but I'd hesitate to use fictional characters.

Also, House as ILE is a typing I absolutely have to question...too gruff and asocial, too quick to use power games and manipulative tactics.

[Gilly]

I like Putin for LSI, and Hopkins for SLE.

How about Ellen Degeneres for IEE?

[Gilly]

How about Aldous Huxley for LII?

[Jarno]

LII Robert Oppenheimer / Angela Merkel
ESE Jacques Cousteau / Ashiwarya Rai

LSI Vladimir Putin / Segolene Royal
EIE Paul Hewson / Jane Fonda

Oppenheimer was known for his one man upship, ILE... Yet your typing could still be right, I just wanted to state that small fact.

Putin is heavely debated by most socionist. Using him as a stereotype is therefor dangerous.

[JuJu]

Keep the suggestions coming... These are good... Do people like Aniston as IEI..? What about Cobain as IEI..? Or Jim Morrison..? Hanoi Jane as EIE..? I agree with the typing, but don't know how many people of our generation would get it... We need a lot of gammas and Deltas.

ESE: female ESE; Jacques Cousteau
LII: Nicole Kidman; male LII
SEI: female SEI; Paul McCartney
ILE: female ILE; male ILE

EIE: female EIE; Bono
LSI: female LSI; male LSI
IEI: female IEI; male IEI
SLE: Madonna; male SLE.

LIE:
ESI:
SEE: female SEE: Elvis Presley
ILI:

LSE:
EII:
IEE: Ellen DeGeneres; male IEE
SLI:

[1981slater]

Ronald Reagan ENFj?
Bill Clinton ESFj?
Boris Yeltsin ESTp?
Weird Al Yankovic ENTp?

[buckland]

Good, Buckland.

Madonna would be a great female SLE exemplar. I think we should go with that.

Kidman's probably one of the best we're going to get for female LIIs... You know, unless Carla becomes famous.

Some of the others are slightly off, or disputed... Not sure about your SLIs, although a lot of people agree with you... Johnny Depp, a lot of people here would dispute. Anthony Hopkins is ENFj.

An easy choice for SEI would be Paul McCartney -- one of the most blatant and least controversial typings possible.

Really? I always got a reading from him. In any case, what about Jack Nicholson as a replacement?

Beyonce could possibly serve as .

[cracka]

lol @ this thread turning directly into another "name a person of each type, then we'll argue who's right and wrong and why"... I just don't see the objective of the original post ever happening here.

[aestrivex]

this thread is a wonderful and concise example of why a collective solution to new type exemplars this will not work.

[1981slater]

SEE-Silvio Berlusconi
ILI-Henry Kissinger
LIE-Emperor Palpatine
ESI-Darth Vader

you are biased!!!!

what about this one?

EIE ******
LSI Stalin
SLE Musolini
IEI whoever

[JuJu]

I'm going to use these new names in the Socionics documentary I'm making this summer, so come on, at least give it a shot... Otherwise I will just make them up myself.

I'm trying to be democratic here, you know..?

The basic problem on this forum, esp with things like this, is that people have widely varying degrees of Socionics competence.

Thus I'm asking for your clearest exemplars, e.g. Madonna is SLE. Something to which most anyone here who knows anything about this subject matter would say something like, "oh, of course. no shit!"

further example: person 1: "Elvis Presley is SEE." person 2: "oh, of course. No shit he is."

[1981slater]

between the time you people spend contemplating and then posting nothing, and the amount of jacking off you must do...

keep up the good work.

give real suggestions...

This is worthwhile and you're ruining it. (wie auch immer.)

Bill Gates is the most famous person in the world...ENTj?

[Not A Communist Shill]

I don't think Paul McCartney as SEI is an obvious typing - I don't know what type he might be.

[JuJu]

alright, I'll nix McCartney then... If you look at him when younger, it's pretty obvious... But by all means, please suggest something better...

Anyone.

[1981slater]

German National Soccer Team ISTj



Michael Schumacher ISTj

Arnold Schwarzenegger ESTj

[Not A Communist Shill]

alright, I'll nix McCartney then... If you look at him when younger, it's pretty obvious... But by all means, please suggest something better...

Anyone.

Why not look through the relevant type threads in the quadra subforums? I know I've typed quite a few ISFps, for example! But how to choose one who is contemporary AND a reasonable representative of their type?

[JuJu]

Schwarzenegger is in at ESTj. Good call.

As popular as soccer is elsewhere--in America, few know a lot about it... Let's go for people who everyone would know. If sports stars, you know, transcendent ones, like Michael Jordan or Pele.

Why not look through the relevant type threads in the quadra subforums? I know I've typed quite a few ISFps, for example! But how to choose one who is contemporary AND a reasonable representative of their type?

I'm asking you to do it here... I'm perfectly capable of doing this whole list myself, you know... And if I wanted only my say in the matter, I would. But I don't.

I'm asking so that other people here have some say in this documentary--and I want some debate about it, you know?

Here.

[Brilliand]

Now, who is there that's so famous that even I know of him?

LII: René Descartes (or Immanuel Kant)
ILE: Albert Einstein
IEI: Gandhi
EII: Abraham Lincoln

[Gilly]

****** is good for male EIE.

Einstein is good male ILE.

Michael Jordan would be good for male LSI, IMO. On that note, Dennis Rodman could be the male EIE and in fact I think he would make a good type exemplar.

[Banana Pancakes]

Fastest thread ever to degenerate into an argument about famous people's typings?

[Not A Communist Shill]

I don't think having Einstein as the male benchmark for ILE would be very good...would a genuine ILE searching for their type readily identify with him? I have similar concerns about Gandhi also, unless it was pointed out how his actions were done in an IEI fashion.

[unefille]

I think Bowie is a clear EIE male; ****** might be clear, but the whole 'being a psychotic dictator responsible for genocide and world war' sort of clouds up his type and would alienate a lot of people.

[Brilliand]

I don't think having Einstein as the male benchmark for ILE would be very good...would a genuine ILE searching for their type readily identify with him? I have similar concerns about Gandhi also, unless it was pointed out how his actions were done in an IEI fashion.

Would Steven Hawking be better for ILE?

[Slacker]

Not everyone agrees with Angelina Jolie as SLI. I think Grace Kelly is accepted by at least pretty much everyone as SLI though. Katherine Hepburn is IEE and Spencer Tracy is SLI. Jude Law is IEE. David Bowie and Bono are both EIEs. I don't know if it matter which would be chosen but I'd go with David Bowie Richard Dreyfuss is LSI. And I think Mark Whalberg too.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Would Steven Hawking be better for ILE?

Yes definitely, but he might be a bit too cerebral...and the voice and disability doesn't help things at all...that's the problem with only having one or two people of each type.

Actually there's another problem - ending up with a list which has four 21st century singers, one 18th century philosopher, two actors etc. ... it might be better to have one list with actors on, another with musicians, and so on.

[Gilly]

I think Bowie is a clear EIE male; ****** might be clear, but the whole 'being a psychotic dictator responsible for genocide and world war' sort of clouds up his type and would alienate a lot of people.

This is a good point. David Bowie works very well.

[cracka]

At least they're trying ...

No they're not, really... not at the point that I made my post and you quickly followed it with yours... If this were the case, people would just pop some random name up and agree on it... due to the fact that all that's trying to happen is picking a new name for each type. Really, how does something like that... turn into which popular person = which type? Even the original poster went on starting it that way... instead of just saying... let's come up with names of people we think we should call each type...

So no, I don't agree with your post, they're not.

[Not A Communist Shill]

How about Horatio Nelson for ILE? Any ILE could identify with his antics.

Yeah, perhaps...but I don't think most schoolchildren in Britain know who he was, let alone what he did...he'd be better than Don Quixote though.

[misutii]

I must admit I find it kind of ridiculous how many movie stars are being named. While it would be good to rename the types, the names used should be those of people that actually have some sort of historical significance. Also I think certain types don't need to be renamed. If someone does not know who Dostoevsky is then it is probably best they don't read anything about socionics

ILE - Leonardo Da Vinci
SEI - Alexandre Dumas
LII - Robespierre/Descartes

EIE - Shakespeare/Goethe
SLE - Hernan Cortes
IEI - Gandhi/Tolstoy/Edgar Allan Poe/Rousseau

SEE - Elvis Presley/Julius Caesar/Napoleon
ILI - Jean-Paul Sarte
LIE - Isaac Newton

EII - Dostoevsky

[Slacker]

I have mixed feelings about using movie stars. On one hand, I like the idea of people whom most people have seen speak and of whom there are videos. On the other hand, someone spends most of his/her time playing characters who could be any type at all might not be the best choice. It would be easy to confuse the actor's type and a prominent character's type.

[buckland]

I have mixed feelings about using movie stars. On one hand, I like the idea of people whom most people have seen speak and of whom there are videos. On the other hand, someone spends most of his/her time playing characters who could be any type at all might not be the best choice. It would be easy to confuse the actor's type and a prominent character's type.

I agree with this. A lot of the others' types would be based on excerpts from various sources, all of which would be biased by the author. Even beyond that, assuming the point of this is to gain acceptance of socionics, then we want people to more easily associate with the types. A lot of people are cynical at typology as a whole, using for example Dumas for SEI is not making the process of induction easier. Movie stars (relatively recent ones) though, just go into youtube and look for an interview. They are alot more accessible, and though their job is actual potrayal of various types, they are probably the best bet in terms of identifiability.

[1981slater]

EIE ******
LSI Stalin
SLE Musolini
IEI whoever

EIE ******
LSI Stalin
SLE Musolini
IEI Bullets & Doves

[Gilly]

If someone does not know who Dostoevsky is then it is probably best they don't read anything about socionics.

I didn't know who Dostoevsky was before reading about Socionics and I'm not sure how it's relevant beyond presumptuous intellectual pretension.

I think the idea of making Socionics more accessible by giving more accessible type exemplars is a fine idea.