Numbers (07490)

[07490]

Oh, well, thanks numbers. :wink:

Most of you are good people, I can tell you that I met more good hearted SLI than EIE. of course there are alot of good EIE out there too.

[unefille]

Also, I think reactions to SM's story are really interesting, since Deltas seem be finding it the sweetest thing and yet I can see exactly why it wouldn't work for me. The most telling aspect being the lack of declaration as to a relationship -- sort of floating along until BAM, you're married. It makes me flashback to everything that went so horrendously wrong with an LSE last year (but the LSE's behaviour was a little different still), when the 'moment of declaration' simply made me go 'um, wtf?!' and feeling like I'd been lied to, deceived, or sort of passively pushed along into a situation I had no intention to be in and thus why things got ugly fast.

I wonder what about your behaviour your husband read as encouraging? Isn't it somehat...dangerous (for him, emotionally) to leave so many things undefined, unasked, unclarified? What happens if you're just floating along, not defining anything, just 'doing' things and one day, one person thinks they're about to get married and the other person is sort of 'HELL NO, I NEVER MEANT YOU TO THINK WE WOULD?' I sort of...don't understand that behaviour (SM husband's type of behaviour) and also find it sort of...presumptuous? Like...that we would move in together in his new house without discussing it with me first? And all those other things...

[Can this post be moved back to SM's thread since it's directly related to the content there?]

[Park]

I think I'm in a snippy mood, but types are not good hearted, people are good-hearted. Even if you want to flatter SLIs, that is still an absurd statement.

I think he's just speaking his mind - nothing more, nothing less. And that's something I like about him. His statement was not absurd, but genuine. And I'm not saying this to flatter him, either, as you might speculate/presume.

[Park]

A sentiment can be simultaneously genuine, and yet absurd.

What is absurd is subjective. I could call your calling on his linguistic skills and formal logic absurd.

Why would I?

I don't know, why did you do it here:

Even if you want to flatter SLIs, that is still an absurd statement.

[07490]

unefille, While not taking any dignity away from my Identical, which is you and me and many other EIE on here, I would like to carlify that I said it based on my own experiences with the two types. YES you are right that being a good hearted person can fit into any type, Which is why I say that through my humble observant experiences of the two type that I have met, there is more Good hearted SLI head count wise than EIE. theres seems to me that I have seem more kind hearted SLI than that of an EIE. To be very honest, I can tell you that there is so much EIE in where I live, where I work, and down the street, when I go to the supermarket, to a bar, or to the salon. I think is a function which is most atune and adopted to fit into the society, Your Fe ego makes you naturally becomes a part of how your society behaves. so I think that either you can be fortuned or unfortuned if you are influenced by a social norms which is filled with either grace or deep care, harmony and respectful of humanity, or vice versa if it is one that supports violence, temper outrage, manipulation and hurtful behavior becuase the society just accepts it as part of a dog eat dog world/unfair society or else you are seen as a loser, ready to be pawned. I think we can imagine that it is very hard for a kind hearted person to show so much good intention/affection in a place most condemned by it. Please look at the neigborhood or city that you live in, If one man has alot of coutesy it naturally transforms itself on to other, then that person will easily pass it on and eventually when that happen you will hear people mentioning that this part of the city is more friendlier than that, or that part of the city is more violence and so forth. So in short, I think attitude is contagious and is something that very much naturally transfer it's energy outward and inflruence other's emotions more so than other Infromation Element. With nothing against my Identical or you or other EIES on here, I simply wants to state that I have seem some of the more ugly version of ego dominants, therefore I made the claim that I have seem more good heart SLI than EIE heart count wise, with no intention to say that SLI are better person than EIE just so of the way both types work. I really hope you understand where I am coming from and that I would like to add that despite function being so easily attune to its enviornment, that I do still have come across some of the best people in the world who is a Fe dominant in a place that does not value over friendliness, becuase if you do so, most people would automatically asumme you are a fish ready to be baited and easily being taken advantage of.

[unefille]

unefille, While not taking any dignity away from my Identical, which is you and me and many other EIE on here, I would like to carlify that I said it based on my own experiences with the two types. YES you are right that being a good hearted person can fit into any type, Which is why I say that through my humble observant experiences of the two type that I have met, there is more Good hearted SLI head count wise than EIE. theres seems to me that I have seem more kind hearted SLI than that of an EIE. To be very honest, I can tell you that there is so much EIE in where I live, where I work, and down the street, when I go to the supermarket, to a bar, or to the salon. I think is a function which is most atune and adopted to fit into the society, Your Fe ego makes you naturally becomes a part of how your society behaves. so I think that either you can be fortuned or unfortuned if you are influenced by a social norms which is filled with either grace or deep care, harmony and respectful of humanity, or vice versa if it is one that supports violence, temper outrage, manipulation and hurtful behavior becuase the society just accepts it as part of a dog eat dog world/unfair society or else you are seen as a loser, ready to be pawned. I think we can imagine that it is very hard for a kind hearted person to show so much good intention/affection in a place most condemned by it. Please look at the neigborhood or city that you live in, If one man has alot of coutesy it naturally transforms itself on to other, then that person will easily pass it on and eventually when that happen you will hear people mentioning that this part of the city is more friendlier than that, or that part of the city is more violence and so forth. So in short, I think attitude is contagious and is something that very much naturally transfer it's energy outward and inflruence other's emotions more so than other Infromation Element. With nothing against my Identical or you or other EIES on here, I simply wants to state that I have seem some of the more ugly version of ego dominants, therefore I made the claim that I have seem more good heart SLI than EIE heart count wise, with no intention to say that SLI and better person than EIE just so of the way both types work. I really hope you understand where I am coming from and that I would like to add that despite function being so easily attune to its enviornment, that I do still have come across some of the best people in the world who is a Fe dominant in a place that does not value over friendliness, becuase if you do so, most people would automatically asumme you are a fish ready to be baited and easily being taken advantage of.

Without taking away anything from what you wrote there, I can't help wonder if what you're talking is in part, if not entirely, related to or enhanced by the social instinct, as opposed to Fe-ego. I can talk about my own experiences being simultaneously so-last and Fe-ego, but I don't think this is the appropriate thread for that, needless to say however, that a lot of what you wrote, especially the bolded, is alien to me, mostly because I have lived in a lot of different neighbourhoods and have neither ever necessarily adopted the values of the neighbourhood I was living, nor seen myself as 'a part of that environment' I happen to be in. I don't think Fe serves as a mechanism of transmission, whether for good or for ill, nor do I think Fe is necessarily more poised to help an individual survive in 'society'. That seems to smack of the social-instinct instead.

[07490]

Without taking away anything from what you wrote there, I can't help wonder if what you're talking is in part, if not entirely, related to or enhanced by the social instinct, as opposed to Fe-ego. I can talk about my own experiences being simultaneously so-last and Fe-ego, but I don't think this is the appropriate thread for that, needless to say however, that a lot of what you wrote, especially the bolded, is alien to me, mostly because I have lived in a lot of different neighbourhoods and have neither ever necessarily adopted the values of the neighbourhood I was living, nor seen myself as 'a part of that environment' I happen to be in. I don't think Fe serves as a mechanism of transmission, whether for good or for ill, nor do I think Fe is necessarily more poised to help an individual survive in 'society'. That seems to smack of the social-instinct instead.

The Social Grace() how you should proberly behave, when to say hi, how to connect(to different form of culture.) with people definity spoil down to Infromation element. the society's set behavior etc...

[unefille]

The Social Grace() how you should proberly behave, when to say hi, how to connect(to different form of culture.) with people definity spoil down to Infromation element. the society's set behavior etc...

I think this is very much oversimplification of a very complex social phenomenon, but I'm not sure anything productive will come of pursuing this further in SM's nice thread.

[07490]

I think this is very much oversimplification of a very complex social phenomenon, but I'm not sure anything productive will come of pursuing this further in SM's nice thread.

Yes I agree. I think I might have said too much about what Fe is like as opposite to backing my statement of I have met more good hearted SLI than EIE.

[07490]

Just had to say this. Numbers, I don't think you're EIE.
Not going to derail this thread, so I'll stop here.

LOL, can you please explain why somewhere else then?

[meatburger]

Just had to say this. Numbers, I don't think you're EIE.
Not going to derail this thread, so I'll stop here.

Hehe who are you? But i do agree. I dont even know who numbers is really but i dont think he/she is ENFj. That above post just didn't seem anything like the other posts ive seen. ENFj's wouldn't bag themselves like that

[07490]

Hehe who are you? But i do agree. I dont even know who numbers is really but i dont think he/she is ENFj. That above post just didn't seem anything like the other posts ive seen. ENFj's wouldn't bag themselves like that

I am not bagging ENFj, Why do you have to go along with the false pride of our type in this forum even though deep inside we all know how much our identical can sometimes bug us so much?

[Park]

Urgh. I don't know if you're bluntly missing the point or simply attempting to aggravate me

I have no reason to do that. My natural reaction to this statement of yours would be that you're speculating again.

You're starting your reply with a false speculation about my motives just so you later contradict yourself by denying any conjectures on your part.

It's for numbers to justify his claim if he wanted to respond to me, which he has now done.

So you're saying I acted inappropriately for stating my opinion? I wasn't answering for him, I was carrying out my own opinion.

I responded to you because I simply found the implication that the quality of genuineness could vitiate the quality of absurdity or untenability in a statement to be (and here's a subjective call) bizarre. Objectively, the qualities of absurdity and genuineness are not in opposition and thus can be perfectly, mutually complementary.

While I can understand that, I don't see how it's of any relevance here. It's inapplicable to numbers' statement, only to your interpretation.

Moreover, even if I were speculating as to numbers motivations, you are not numbers.

So, should I like apologize for interfering into your discussion? His statement was directly related to SLI's and to one of my comments, but even if it wasn't, don't I have the freedom to state my opinion about it?

I hardly proceed on the basis that everyone has the same motivations, especially given the different contexts of prior behaviours and general tendencies against which to construe any given action.

How the hell should I know that? Should I be making assumptions?

I would rarely, if ever, suspect you of flattering someone. Why be so quick to assume I would?

I (reasonably) considered it plausible more than I "assumed" anything, and already pointed out why.

I have never done so before and there isn't any evidence that I indiscriminately accuse people of a particular motivation, irrespective of any prior conduct.

I really don't get why you're being so defensive about something you haven't been accused of. Did I say that you 'indiscriminately accuse people of a particular motivation'? It sounds like you're making up your own accusations.

[Park]

= I don't know why you're doing what you're doing (which is to suspend speculation as to your motivations)

Yes, you don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing which only leaves you with one option to take it further - to speculate, which is what you did.

but you ARE MISSING THE POINT and ARE AGGRAVATING ME.

At least SOME of our feelings are mutual now.

It is a comment on MY STATE OF BEING and the way in which I received your comments.

Naturally. I wouldn't expect it to be any other way.

As to the rest about your freedom to comment and interfere - that is hardly the point.

Ok, well thanks for not explaining the point I've missed.

Much as you're allowed to post what you wish, I'm allowed to react and then post to that effect. And as to everything else...here is why I feel aggravated: I feel like I'm talking to a wall (note for clarification: I'm not accusing you of being, or speculating that you might be, a wall, but simply making a statement as to how I feel).

Yes, ok. But you're assuming I need clarification for what "talking to a wall" naturally means/implies?

[UDP]

I have a type me thread in socionix. Under the same username.
Well, first came his avatar. He VI's very much like an SLE I know. So similar I stared very long to see if they're the same person. I read his posts while browsing through the forum, and I do not relate at all. Sure all of this is subjective and I might very well be wrong. But I've been meaning to express this for the past month or two and I just had to. I'm EIE-Ni btw. Nice to meet you

Hm

[Gilly]

YAY FUN

HAPPY HUG HUG SHOW

HUG HUG HUG

KEEP LYING TO YOURSELVES

HUG HUG HUG

LIFE ISNT SO BAD

HUG HUG HUG

OH WAIT IT IS

SLIT SLIT SLIT

[07490]

I have a type me thread in socionix. Under the same username.
Well, first came his avatar. He VI's very much like an SLE I know. So similar I stared very long to see if they're the same person. I read his posts while browsing through the forum, and I do not relate at all. Sure all of this is subjective and I might very well be wrong. But I've been meaning to express this for the past month or two and I just had to. I'm EIE-Ni btw. Nice to meet you

I think this is one of those typing when people confuse EIE with SLE, I can be very hyper focus, I tried to avoid over thinking stuff, specificly Ni, in favor of sensing, the adwareness and the attention, of course I cannot do that for long since it is my 6th function? So at times people might confuse my mentality with an SLE.

[07490]

Like have you ever heard of something called Oneness to the enviornment? it is basiclly a buddhism princple where there is nothing in your mind but just total shrine you and the enviornment, When you work it is like you are in a zone, you learn not to be distracted by any exterior factors, yet not focusing in anything particular you then work almost in a robotic way, and even contrary to being totally out of reality, but your mind is not thinking at all. I don't know if that is Se which I think can possibly be, but I am learning more and more to train myself to be this way.

[07490]

unefille, While not taking any dignity away from my Identical, which is you and me and many other EIE on here, I would like to carlify that I said it based on my own experiences with the two types. YES you are right that being a good hearted person can fit into any type, Which is why I say that through my humble observant experiences of the two type that I have met, there is more Good hearted SLI head count wise than EIE. theres seems to me that I have seem more kind hearted SLI than that of an EIE. To be very honest, I can tell you that there is so much EIE in where I live, where I work, and down the street, when I go to the supermarket, to a bar, or to the salon. I think is a function which is most atune and adopted to fit into the society, Your Fe ego makes you naturally becomes a part of how your society behaves. so I think that either you can be fortuned or unfortuned if you are influenced by a social norms which is filled with either grace or deep care, harmony and respectful of humanity, or vice versa if it is one that supports violence, temper outrage, manipulation and hurtful behavior becuase the society just accepts it as part of a dog eat dog world/unfair society or else you are seen as a loser, ready to be pawned. I think we can imagine that it is very hard for a kind hearted person to show so much good intention/affection in a place most condemned by it. Please look at the neigborhood or city that you live in, If one man has alot of coutesy it naturally transforms itself on to other, then that person will easily pass it on and eventually when that happen you will hear people mentioning that this part of the city is more friendlier than that, or that part of the city is more violence and so forth. So in short, I think attitude is contagious and is something that very much naturally transfer it's energy outward and inflruence other's emotions more so than other Infromation Element. With nothing against my Identical or you or other EIES on here, I simply wants to state that I have seem some of the more ugly version of ego dominants, therefore I made the claim that I have seem more good heart SLI than EIE heart count wise, with no intention to say that SLI are better person than EIE just so of the way both types work. I really hope you understand where I am coming from and that I would like to add that despite function being so easily attune to its enviornment, that I do still have come across some of the best people in the world who is a Fe dominant in a place that does not value over friendliness, becuase if you do so, most people would automatically asumme you are a fish ready to be baited and easily being taken advantage of.

You think this is very much written by a SLE than EIE. IN your very humble opinion?

[crazedrat]

actually you know what numbers? ENFp-Fi might even work for you ... Not sure. You decide. I never have felt supervisor relations from you

[07490]

actually you know what numbers? ENFp-Fi might even work for you ... Not sure. You decide. I never have felt supervisor relations from you

It can very well be, Winterpark where are you?

[Brilliand]

You think this is very much written by a SLE than EIE. IN your very humble opinion?

I have trouble thinking of you as a Beta extrovert at all... you're too humble.

[07490]

I have trouble thinking of you as a Beta extrovert at all... you're too humble.

Beta extrovert from third world countries are humble too :-)

[Park]

It can very well be, Winterpark where are you?

I'm in Copenhagen. What's up? Wanna fly here and buy me some lunch?


To get on topic - I don't know, man... I've already told you what I think. But never mind what others say because ultimately, you know best.

If you want to explore the ENFp possibility in more depth perhaps try talking to the ENFp's on this forum more often (or in private) and see how you relate to their perspectives, values, motives, needs, ways of expression etc. But most importantly - observe people and interactions, both online and irl. And I know you're already doing that, so just keep it up.

[UDP]

I'm in Copenhagen. What's up? Wanna fly here and buy me some lunch?

Copenhagen Climate Council

The Copenhagen Climate Council comprises 30 global leaders from business, science, and policy dedicated to create awareness of the importance of COP15, the UN conference to be held in Copenhagen in December 2009 where world leaders will meet to agree on a new treaty to replace the Kyoto Protocol.

[implied]

Wow. I'm not going to bother with deconstructing your post like you bothered with mine, but I do need to point one thing out:



= I don't know why you're doing what you're doing (which is to suspend speculation as to your motivations), but you ARE MISSING THE POINT and ARE AGGRAVATING ME.

It is a comment on MY STATE OF BEING and the way in which I received your comments.


As to the rest about your freedom to comment and interfere - that is hardly the point. Much as you're allowed to post what you wish, I'm allowed to react and then post to that effect. And as to everything else...here is why I feel aggravated: I feel like I'm talking to a wall (note for clarification: I'm not accusing you of being, or speculating that you might be, a wall, but simply making a statement as to how I feel).

But last post here, totally sorry to SM for derailing your thread with this petty and entirely pointless conversation, if it can be so termed.

unefille is reminding me of a beta NF that i cannot get on with no matter WHAT i do.

[Gilly]

Let's just drop it before this gets any worse. I don't want to lock this thread.

[07490]

I don't want to lock this thread.

why should you?

[Simon Ssmall]

Ah interpretation, re-interpretation, over-interpretation, potential for something...

[Gilly]

why should you?

Because, unlike apparently everyone else who is posting in this thread currently, I can see that the topic is going to be completely lost in a downward negative spiral if no tourniquet is applied.

[unefille]

Let's just drop it before this gets any worse. I don't want to lock this thread.

That's a great idea. I'm going to go through and delete all my posts. I really just wish this thread had died. Except all the stuff actually relevant to Numbers.

[07490]

Because, unlike apparently everyone else who is posting in this thread currently, I can see that the topic is going to be completely lost in a downward negative spiral if no tourniquet is applied.

alrite, if that is what implied wants.

[unefille]

It is precisely threads like these that reveal the most. I honestly think its a waste if deleted.

From an objective perspective, probably, but there are direct emotional impacts, if on no one else, then on me. And I think it's probably a bad idea to get emotionally engaged with anything on the internet.

[Gilly]

Back on the proper subject of this thread...

Personally I think its kind of silly to suppose that numbers is not an EIE simply because he is perceived as too agreeable and "stable" compared to EIEs like myself and unefille. I think EIE is his type and I think most of this speculation is based on the fact that Beta extroverts are generally perceived as being volatile, or at least a bit edgy or off-color, and this does not apply to numbers.

[unefille]

I think that numbers is an SLE, a Beta extrovert. And like you said, you really can't say that he's not one based on the speculation that Beta extroverts are volatile or off-color.

I had problems with seeing numbers as my identical initially, although I've been coming around to the idea -- that he's a EIE who is very different from myself; as Gilly said, much less volatile and 'sharp'. What aside from VI and the fact that he seems to 'infuse' Fe and Ni into his posts (I suppose you think that this 'infusion' is artificial and smacks of valuing non-ego functions) indicates SLE? I don't really see much Se or Ti in his posts, natural or infused.

[07490]

'sharp'

;-(, I must be a dump EIE then.

[unefille]

;-(, I must be a dump EIE then.

Haha, I meant 'sharp' as in tone/vibe/personality sense. We're/I'm more reactive and less conciliatory.

[07490]

Haha, I meant 'sharp' as in tone/vibe/personality sense. We're/I'm more reactive and less conciliatory.

alright, but I am still pretty dump. the smarter you are the more pains you get you know?

[unefille]

Numbers, you know -- I'm not always certain you're a 3 (the way I think that JuJu being a 3 is quite clear to me), but I think one of the clearest things about you/your type is that you have 9 in your trifix.

[07490]

Numbers, you know -- I'm not always certain you're a 3 (the way I think that JuJu being a 3 is quite clear to me), but I think one of the clearest things about you/your type is that you have 9 in your trifix.

These stuff can be changed there are alot of 3's like me. Just beacuse I try to get rid of my prefect imagine and put my own self on the spot indicates that i am very much a 3.