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Thread: ISTjs and ESTps giving relationship advice

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default ISTjs and ESTps giving relationship advice

    To be honest, I don't think we're actually that bad at it. Just because we have weak and hence can't interpret well the bonds between people doesn't mean we can't give good advice about what one should do.

    Rather than give situational advice like "well, he's clearly attracted to you, so I think it would be best if you tell him what you make of him", which would require a confidence in , we can a hypothetical situation on the basis of "well, if x is the case, do y, but if q is the case, then do p". This way, we are making no judgements about bonds between different individuals, but are simply giving different methods to follow. Obviously there's a bit of in there to compensate for (following a method: xy), but basically, we're not entirely helpless when it comes to these situations. Also, we can talk about different values, such as honesty, without the need for . Suggesting that someone be honest with their partner requires little or no skill concerning actual relations.

    What do you guys reckon?

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    I agree with this. I also think we're good at looking at relationships objectively and giving other people the kind of blunt advice they actually need.
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    As much as I like you beta STs, I don't think you're very good at relationships (in my experience at least.)

    Primarily it has to do with thinking/feeling in black & white rather than shades of grey.

    Don't get me wrong, this trait of yours helps me... However, it can sometimes feel like being in a relationship with a wild beast... And I've seen it put off your friends again and again.

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    I think there's a difference between "blunt" and "insightful".

    But ok, I'm weird and Judicial like that.

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    No, no, bad idea Ezra. I usually get along with Beta STs quite well; the time I distinctly remember distancing myself from them, is when they try to tell me how I should handle my relationships, what I should or should not talk about with my gilrfriend, etc etc. It's not that they do it forcefully or with bad intent, it's just that their advice is always kind of...destructive, from my perspective?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    I don't think I've ever witnessed a Beta-ST giving the sort of thing that most people think of when they hear "relationship advice." IME, their suggestions are no more than one sentence: "Take her to the lake." <- is about as much "advice" as I've gotten out of an SLE.
    Throw her in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, no, bad idea Ezra. I usually get along with Beta STs quite well; the time I distinctly remember distancing myself from them, is when they try to tell me how I should handle my relationships, what I should or should not talk about with my gilrfriend, etc etc. It's not that they do it forcefully or with bad intent, it's just that their advice is always kind of...destructive, from my perspective?
    Tie her up and rape her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Tie her up and rape her.
    Now that's not bad advice.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Now that's not bad advice.
    Tie her up and let hitta rape her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Tie her up and let hitta rape her.
    hahaaa, damn, you win, that's the worst I could ever think about
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    hahaaa, damn, you win, that's the worst I could ever think about
    The trick is to just put the objects together and not imagine it.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    The trick is to just put the objects together and not imagine it.
    Objectifying people FTW

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    The advice idolatrie gives me tends to be along the lines of, "Obliterate the uncertainty, it burnsss usss!"

    My SLE friend seems to think that going out and getting a hobby will solve all my problems. He also has an uncanny ability to give succinct summations of interpersonal situations and whether or not people are being fair or cowardly or uncertain, but he doesn't give out any specific advice on what I should do, except as an afterthought. Usually the advice is pretty hard-line, but I don't think he expects me to act on it anyway.
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    No offense, but the Beta STs I've known have had little to no luck with their own relationships, so they wouldn't be a good source for advice IMO - not that I've ever really seen one give any solid advice.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What do you guys reckon?
    I think that really accurately explains the process I go through when giving advice to people. But I also don't see myself as a good (in an objective sense) source of advice on relationships and all that. I mean, the person I mostly give advice to is unefille, and she specifically wants my emotionally-retarded freaky LSI advice anyway, so it is all good. I also volunteer advice to octopuslove, but more on that below.

    I talk about relationships with my other female friends, but I know I censor myself a lot around them, because well, I just don't share some of their issues and concerns, so I'm like, if I find that irrelevant, then I have nothing to add, so I just smile and say 'well, I'm sure you know best' or 'do whatever feels right'.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    the time I distinctly remember distancing myself from them, is when they try to tell me how I should handle my relationships, what I should or should not talk about with my gilrfriend, etc etc. It's not that they do it forcefully or with bad intent, it's just that their advice is always kind of...destructive, from my perspective?
    Hmmm, that's interesting. May I ask, why do you find it destructive? As in counter-productive for gamma rational relationships, or just crazy and off the mark in a general sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    The trick is to just put the objects together and not imagine it.
    Best advice in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    The advice idolatrie gives me tends to be along the lines of, "Obliterate the uncertainty, it burnsss usss!"
    well, it's true!

    Usually the advice is pretty hard-line, but I don't think he expects me to act on it anyway.
    Hmm, you know, I think this is kind of it. I know I also tell you I think you should do this or that or whatever. But the purpose is more to lay out options, I don't actually expect you to necessarily follow any of my advice. And like, that's not an issue? I think beta STs potentially dole out a whole lot of relationship advice and don't really expect it to be heeded, nor care if it is not.
    allez cuisine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    Hmm, you know, I think this is kind of it. I know I also tell you I think you should do this or that or whatever. But the purpose is more to lay out options, I don't actually expect you to necessarily follow any of my advice. And like, that's not an issue? I think beta STs potentially dole out a whole lot of relationship advice and don't really expect it to be heeded, nor care if it is not.
    Precisely. I think Beta STs give out advice that can only be followed if you don't actually follow their advice. What they suggest tends to be situational, rather than personal: they don't consider the people involved and their reactions, so much as they take the view of treating people like little lego pieces that be maneuvered.

    I usually vent at idolatrie more than I seek her advice; she lays out the general context and I find it very calming and helps me 'descend from my anger/misery etc', but invariably, I can't think of a single situation where the relevant parties have reacted the way she might have anticipated or the situation actually went the way she talked about it. But that's ok, because I sort of just react on the fly anyway. I never really want real advice anyway; just someone calm and methodical with whom I can gain some clarity and control over a situation, usually by explaining why their interpretation of it is wrong/simplistic/two-dimensional. Explaining things to someone who doesn't 'see' it, but is willing to understand your emotions, really helps.
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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Let's see, what relationship advice have I given over the years, solicited or unsolicited.

    To one friend; Break up with her. Because he kept avoiding her.

    To another briend; Break up with her. Because he never seemed to actually want to spend time out in public with her.

    Hmm..

    To another friend; He's okay. I think you could deal with him.

    To another friend; You don't listen to him.

    Hmm...

    Let's see...

    To another friend; if you don't do something, she'll break up with you.

    Anyway,

    Sometimes when drunk I seem to accidentally find myself in the situation that some girl thinks it makes sense to tell me about her abusive boyfriend / bad relationship blah blah. And I'm really not the guy to tell that shit to. But uhh, i've had it a few times. And so I figure they'll dump on anyone.

    I suppose my relationship advice would be quick, immediate, and relevant. But like saying "break up with her" to a guy. Well,. That doesn't seem to actually work. I mean in both of those situations there were girls around that agreed with me. But it's like one of those things, where it's like some people don't want to be held responsible for discouraging a relationship to exist.

    As far as people who have gotten themselves into bad emotional stiuations, I've often felt the best idea is to actually just focus on what we're going to do in the moment, and then it'll kind of come out bit by bit. But not to focus on it too much. More create a comfortable environment, situation etc.

    And uhh, I don't think other people trust me very much when people get really emotionally distraught etc. I tend to say things like "You've been crying", which seems to make some people consider me as "stating the obvious, and not caring about people" etc. And the thing is, when people get really emotionally wound up they can't normally have a conversation or really deal with anything complicated. That said, over the years, I've realised that lots of people that *say* they care have ulterior motives. Real caring is through selfless actions, not through saying you care, or are only looking out for others etc.

    blah blah

    Anywa,y,

    My relationship advice for today.

    GO HARD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, no, bad idea Ezra. I usually get along with Beta STs quite well; the time I distinctly remember distancing myself from them, is when they try to tell me how I should handle my relationships, what I should or should not talk about with my gilrfriend, etc etc. It's not that they do it forcefully or with bad intent, it's just that their advice is always kind of...destructive, from my perspective?
    Was it from ESTp or ISTj? I think they shared a bit of different perspective in relationship.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    No, I don't think they are bad. You gave me good advice before Ezra .
    I like asking STs for advice, I don't ask people for advice often but when I do, they are who I ask.
    You're confident and decisive, and I am the opposite, I know what to do in my head when it comes down to it, but I just like to ask STs for reassurance that what I am thinking of doing is the right thing to do, if I didn't ask for their advice I'd never get anything done, I'd just sit around contemplating and analyzing and freaking myself out.
    Though this may be because I only ever ask beta STs on advice concerning other beta STs lol.
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    No, I don't think they are bad. You gave me good advice before Ezra .
    I like asking STs for advice, I don't ask people for advice often but when I do, they are who I ask.
    You're confident and decisive, and I am the opposite, I know what to do in my head when it comes down to it, but I just like to ask STs for reassurance that what I am thinking of doing is the right thing to do, if I didn't ask for their advice I'd never get anything done, I'd just sit around contemplating and analyzing and freaking myself out.
    Though this may be because I only ever ask beta STs on advice concerning other beta STs lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Did you watch the last few episodes of Skins, by the way? How shit were they.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, no, bad idea Ezra. I usually get along with Beta STs quite well; the time I distinctly remember distancing myself from them, is when they try to tell me how I should handle my relationships, what I should or should not talk about with my gilrfriend, etc etc. It's not that they do it forcefully or with bad intent, it's just that their advice is always kind of...destructive, from my perspective?
    Same. I suppose if an ESTp was in a healthy, loving relationship then it might be possible that they could offer okay advice once in a while... with the help of their significant other... but really how often does that occur? ESTps, in general, should receive a swift kick to the bottom every time they unselfishly decide to take up the responsibility of offering relationship advice.
    INFp-Ni

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    Dunno, never heard ESTp's giving any advice on relationships. ISTj's I know ask me for advices, they need calming from time to time and guidance to not misinterpret what another person is doing/feeling (especially for the one which dates an ISTp as she always tries to interpret something of what he says)

    That's what people I encountered are like.
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  25. #25

    Default

    Well there's:


    You'll be the judge if his advices are good, (or if he's ISTj).
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    That's right! Dr. Phil gives lots of (relationship) advice! Ha!

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    Dr. Phil is not LSI.

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    Default is not. is too.

    I think he is.

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    LOL, he is.

    I love him and his bald head No kidding.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Did you watch the last few episodes of Skins, by the way? How shit were they.
    Haha, I know right! I was actually shocked! & the whole everyone loves Effy shit got tired after the first five episodes. And what was with the random attempts at being deep? . I miss the first season :tongue:!
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    Same. I suppose if an ESTp was in a healthy, loving relationship then it might be possible that they could offer okay advice once in a while... with the help of their significant other... but really how often does that occur? ESTps, in general, should receive a swift kick to the bottom every time they unselfishly decide to take up the responsibility of offering relationship advice.
    In the real world, how many people are in healthy lovign relationships.

    Adn how many just say thhey are, becaues they don't want other people to think that their relationship is going bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    In the real world, how many people are in healthy lovign relationships.

    Adn how many just say thhey are, becaues they don't want other people to think that their relationship is going bad.
    True. I hate how this world work. I am not mad at those who tries to cover up their valunberility, it is not their fault, But i hate it when we need to be like that in order to be accepted in this world, the way this world is run. I have talked to people who priased their love one like they are the best of the best, seconds later when i ask them more question then they uncovered the truth like saying that he/she has 30 brain sugery, and is considered mentally retarded. I feel like there is no need to uncover it with praised, if you dont feel comfortable letting people know, just dont mention it, but saying how well your relationship is when it is the complete opposite will just end up making you look bad even more..
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    You'll be the judge if his advices are good, (or if he's ISTj).
    He's a complete dick, in my opinion. First, he makes fun of people; then, partronizes them with some rather obvious advice that even a 3-yo kid could have thought about.

    Hmmm, that's interesting. May I ask, why do you find it destructive? As in counter-productive for gamma rational relationships, or just crazy and off the mark in a general sense?
    Well, consistenly, it happens that if I tell an ISTj (of my age, not older ones - I think my father would never give me such advice) that, say, I'm going to vacation with my girlfriend, he'd tell me "screw that! You should go have fun with other guys and hit on chicks, you're only young once"; or something like "bah, you should be more indipendent, why going out with your girlfriend!". At first, I though it had nothing to do with type, simply with people having a different view on relationships at this stage of life (which I can comprehend), but I have seen such pattern happening quite consistently. With ESTps, well, even those that are in great relationships - and loyal to their girlfriends, they'll talk about fucking and hitting on other girls (I'm not saying that they'll do it - they just talk about it) in the presence of my girlfriend, which somehow makes me uncomfortable. But they usually refrain from giving much "advice".
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    ESTps, in general, should receive a swift kick to the bottom every time they unselfishly decide to take up the responsibility of offering relationship advice.
    Yeah, we should remain selfish fucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Dr. Phil is not LSI.
    Could he not be SLE? (I'm just saying - I have no idea who he is - I just did a Dr. Phil Personality Test not too long ago.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Haha, I know right! I was actually shocked! & the whole everyone loves Effy shit got tired after the first five episodes. And what was with the random attempts at being deep? . I miss the first season :tongue:!
    Yeah, it was shite for those very reasons; the themes were overused like a coked-up hooker. The first series managed to be existential in hidden ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    I am not mad at those who tries to cover up their valunberility
    Expressing how crap a relationship isn't vulnerability - it's honesty.

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    My dad gives the worst possible relationship advice. It's supposed to be "pragmatic." Like "make sure your wife/gf/whatever doesn't hook up with you because she wants your money."

  36. #36
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    @krae: isn't that an inability to assess relations between individuals on your part, versus an ability to do so on your grandmother's?

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    My dad gives the worst possible relationship advice. It's supposed to be "pragmatic." Like "make sure your wife/gf/whatever doesn't hook up with you because she wants your money."
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    My dad gives the worst possible relationship advice. It's supposed to be "pragmatic." Like "make sure your wife/gf/whatever doesn't hook up with you because she wants your money."
    Yah that's the kind of advice I've gotten from ESTps too. And they tend to give it whether or not you ask... and their evidence tends to be generalized based on a couple of their past experiences (i.e. "Women just want to be with rich men and don't want to work. It's true in fact I've even heard them tell me this before. Remember when we were at [so and so's] house and [insert name here] was talking about guys and they were talking about that one guy that had money... blah blah blah... don't you know anything about evolutionary biology, it's been scientifically proven blah blah blah....") lol

    Also they blatantly then ask of detailed updates of situations as they develop and then share more of their theories on women with you before you finish your sentence
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    I don't think I've ever witnessed a Beta-ST giving the sort of thing that most people think of when they hear "relationship advice." IME, their suggestions are no more than one sentence: "Take her to the lake." <- is about as much "advice" as I've gotten out of an SLE.
    this whole thread makes me laugh but I liked this: "take her to the lake". That's exactly the type of thing I've heard from the SLE I know. not that I really ask him for advice but he will often throw out these really concise one-liners that totally crack me up regarding this or that. I love it because it takes me out of my pondering over-thinking and even though it may not be actually helpful in the least, it makes me laugh and realize that I'm obsessing too much.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    bumping this one too because it makes me laugh...
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    bumping this one too because it makes me laugh...
    Also lol @ this thread
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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