Quadra "Contracts"

[Creepy-male]

So, here's a point for discussion.

About that nightlife, dancing, mixing of cultures thing.

I recently found a bar that is the most delta place ever. I occasionally write messages from it. The bartender/owner is an ISTp of about 50 years. He's combat sport hobbyist and his other job is doing physiotherapy. There's no dance floor. The tables are surrounded by comfy chairs and sofas where possible. There's a substantial number of magazines and board games and free internet access available in the front room. The place carries an abnormally large selection of beers, ciders, whiskeys and varieties of absinth. There's a free jukebox that carries local bands and music from the 30's to 80's. Nothing from the past 20 years but pretty much just quality music. The bartender doesn't serve anyone who is loud, drunk, wears very weird clothing or seems generally weird, he points them out. The place opens up when then owner wants and closes when the owner wants, no open hours are given anywhere. This is the front room.

The back room ... I haven't been to the back room because only people who have been around for years get to the back room. But I do know that the group there knows each other from years back and spend time watching tv and having snacks and apparently laughing quite a lot.

Anyone who dances gets thrown out. And what mixing of cultures is present goes under the title "hospitality". There's plenty of that. People talk to each other quite a lot and about quite varying subjects. The atmosphere is friendly, but reserved. I once mentioned that I liked a particular 80's tv show. Someone overheard it and a week later they came to talk to me and mentioned that they had tracked down some guy who worked for a company that was distributing it and could get me cheap dvds, as an example. The bar also serves the best hot chocolate in town. Famous for it. That bar is as close to deltaland as a place can be.

This post seems to describe, in essence, an underlying set of tacit rules, sort of like a contract.

Is this an Aristocratic thing? Or does every quadra have a set of expectations that everyone within shares? What are they?

Gogogogogogogo!

[ArchonAlarion]

Erm idk, I tend to get that vibe from the aristocratic quadras. Gamma is very closed, but once you're in, the treatment is informal ime.

[The Greeter]

I think anybody who is not acquainted or feel comfortable in a group will feel the need to be 'formal'.

[ArchonAlarion]

... and some groups are more "acquaintive" than others

[The Greeter]

... and some groups are more "acquaintive" than others

True. But I'm a Delta and I can be quite loud around my group of friends in a "non-acquaintive" fashion.

[ArchonAlarion]

I doubt raucous behavior is limited to Alpha-Beta.

[The Greeter]

I doubt raucous behavior is limited to Alpha-Beta.

Then what do you mean by 'formal' behaviour that you see in Aristocratic quadras and 'informal' behaviour you see in Democratic ones?

[ArchonAlarion]

Oh, I wasn't being that clear-cut.

Alpha is never "formal" tbh. Gamma is just cold and exclusive, but once inside a Gamma group you don't have to worry too much and everyone is basically free to do whatever. Beta is not formal naturally. They use formality in symbolic/power structures more as a means. Delta seems formal to me naturally...

I wouldn't use "formal" to describe aristocratic quadras nor "informal" for democratic.

Aristocratic quadras are more selective of members. Or at least who can interact with ease within groups. Democratics make less of a distinction between "us and them".

As it turns out, most wars are Beta-Delta conflicts. Alpha-Gamma just do not associate with groups enough. Alpha is extremely open and Gamma makes their groups so small that the relationship is to personal for "patriotism".

There is some interesting macro quadra dynamics stuff to think about. Especially, inter-quadra struggle.

[Satan]

I think anybody who is not acquainted or feel comfortable in a group will feel the need to be 'formal'.

In serious situations I can be formal.

Then in casual situations extremely unformal. Including to new people. Who can be way too formal with me.

[redbaron]

Tbh, every group sort of has its own “etiquette” within it. Maybe the etiquette is to wear a jacket and tie, or maybe it's to be an asshole to show how much you care. People who act how most people would consider “warm and inviting” make me extremely uncomfortable. They make me feel like I'm supposed to laugh at jokes when they're not funny, to smile excessively, etc. To me, that is being formal. I suppose my “informal” would be formal to you, but it's the way I feel most comfortable.

I dated a male ESI just like this. Come to think of it, I'll bet he was 6w5 also and sx-first. HA. I can remember how our little group of friends was very exclusive. But then how within that group it was great. I felt SO special being a part of his group. It was like I had arrived. Very proud. haha

[tiny_dancer]

Tbh, every group sort of has its own “etiquette” within it. Maybe the etiquette is to wear a jacket and tie, or maybe it's to be an asshole to show how much you care. People who act how most people would consider “warm and inviting” make me extremely uncomfortable. They make me feel like I'm supposed to laugh at jokes when they're not funny, to smile excessively, etc. To me, that is being formal. I suppose my “informal” would be formal to you, but it's the way I feel most comfortable.

Exactly. I don't always have issues with it, but in some situations it feels awkward and forced and I don't really know how to respond. And then people assume I'm a stuck-up bitch. That's probably what bothers me the most. The pervasive assumption that Fi = snob. Not at all. I'm just calmer than you think I should be.

[1981slater]

In my eyes, betas and gammas make closed groups. Deltas and alphas mix now and then, but deltas always seem a bit aloof to newcomers.

[ashlesha]

bump, yeah i know this is super old but i like it. i'm always curious to see how people view the aristocrat/democrat thing. and i liked the way this thread was going with the impressions of how closed/open the different quadras are. and i think i would like that bar. not that i agree w/ the owner on all the details or w/e, but just the vibe - is this sort of thing that people talk about when they mention the implicit standards in delta?

[stray]

I'm as informal as I imagine anyone can be. I don't dig this idea about Beta/Aristocratic, if it's really all that formal. I try not to be offensive in it, but I think I find some angle to assume familiarity fairly quick. Enough that I notice it's out of place with others.. in workplaces, I can't help from being a little personal with employers, while some others have a more deferring attitude. Sometimes it seems to piss the more stuffy people off though. I remember getting this cold glare from a preacher, for example, because I said his wife was attractive. And when that happened, I couldn't help from laughing a little. His social role didn't mean anything to me. She was hot, for an older woman. What can I say?

I don't think formalities jive well with Fe creative or Fi PoLR alike.

[Aleksei]

I'm as informal as I imagine anyone can be. I don't dig this idea about Beta/Aristocratic, if it's really all that formal. I try not to be offensive in it, but I think I find some angle to assume familiarity fairly quick. Enough that I notice it's out of place with others.. in workplaces, I can't help from being a little personal with employers, while some others have a more deferring attitude. Sometimes it seems to piss the more stuffy people off though. I remember getting this cold glare from a preacher, for example, because I said his wife was attractive. And when that happened, I couldn't help from laughing a little. His social role didn't mean anything to me. She was hot, for an older woman. What can I say?

I don't think formalities jive well with Fe creative or Fi PoLR alike.

This, pretty much. Formality is more of a Serious thing than an Aristocratic thing.

[Galen]

I'm really not that great with being 'formal.' Sure I can put on the act and dance the dance, but at the end of the day if I have to wear a mask of politeness around a group of people just to fit in with them then I'm gonna end up disappointed. Fi/Te probably comes off as more formal to Fe/Ti valuers since it'll generally appear to be more emotionally restrained anyways.

[ashlesha]

what do you guys mean by formal? if its not showing much emotion or familiarity with people you dont know, then yeah i'm formal. i do think i have a thicker wall than most when it comes to getting to a point where i let loose around them or whatever. its not about consciously being aloof or trying to maintain some kind of aristocratic demeanor or anything, lol...it just has to do with where my boundaries are. there have been times when i've been comfortable letting my guard down right away with someone but it hardly ever happens. i like when others are familiar and informal as long as it feels natural and i dont feel pressured. i dont necessarily see formality as the "right" way to be or anything. but i appreciate when people dont take it personally and its really hard to let go of it with people who do.

[ashlesha]

as far as quadras in general, the only trend i've really noticed is that people i've typed alpha have tended to be more informal and i suppose inclusive.

[redbaron]

I used to know this Si Te guy who was so formal it made me laugh but it was also confusing and bewildering at times. He'd even be formal in texts like "hello, how are you doing this morning" before saying anything substantial. I mean, it's fine to be unassuming, but at some point you have to just dive in and be yourself. I didn't like feeling like I had to start all over again every time we talked. It was quite odd.

[Absurd]

Yup, I think I am formal although I don't even bother when it comes to people I don't want anything to do with or people that don't interest me at all. With close ones, that is, people I can count on it is a different story.

[Galen]

what do you guys mean by formal? if its not showing much emotion or familiarity with people you dont know, then yeah i'm formal.

Yeah, a good portion of it has to do with how well I know the person and how comfortable I am around them in general.

[pianosinger]

You get kicked out if you dance? At all? I'm pretty sure I would get kicked out at some point, then...

[Absurd]

You get kicked out if you dance? At all? I'm pretty sure I would get kicked out at some point, then...

Good thing I don't dance.

[DividedsGhost]

I doubt raucous behavior is limited to Alpha-Beta.

Is the word raucous related to raccoon?

You get kicked out if you dance? At all? I'm pretty sure I would get kicked out at some point, then...

SHHHHHHHHHH! Don't let anyone know! Don't even mention it! MY GAWD WOMAN

[Park]

I know some people who won't actually "kick out" of their group, a person they don't like, but instead will subtly treat that person poorly, and talk about them behind their back... even while re-inviting that person to go hang out again (especially if he has something they want). Maybe that is an example of a democratic group letting everyone in, even if they don't like them. Whereas an aristocratic group will just be like.. gtfo.

You might as well be right about that. I hate that kind of "democratic" hypocrisy.