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Thread: Uncertainty

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    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    Default Uncertainty

    I've noticed some things about me. I often try to forecast things. What's interesting is that I'm usually not very good at it. I also try to be certain about the truth. However, I usually change my mind. The truth is, I never feel certain about these things; but I think I like it this way. I think what makes life so interesting is not being able to predict or be certain about anything. In that way, life is always surprising and unexpected. How do you feel about uncertainty? (You can associate your responses with Ni, Ti, etc. I'm really only kind of joking in my signature; I think the most freedom a person can have involves not limiting themselves to the thinking of any one type.)
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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    I am going to say something stupid: imagine there are two possibilities, one of them is "good" and the other is also "good", but different to the first. I like this kind of uncertainty.

    On the other hand, imagine you have two possibilities: the good one and the bad one. I don't like this kind of uncertainty!
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Jarno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_m View Post
    I think the most freedom a person can have involves not limiting themselves to the thinking of any one type.)
    You can't deceive nature.

    You are one type.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    You can't deceive nature.
    Hey, Jarno! That is what I tell to smokers over and over!
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Hey, Jarno! That is what I tell to smokers over and over!

    hehehe yeah, and they usually reply with an example of a smoker who turned 100, ignoring all the death ones.

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    hehehe yeah, and they usually reply with an example of a smoker who turned 100, ignoring all the death ones.
    and what is his name, Chuck Norris?
    ILE "Searcher"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    You can't deceive nature.

    You are one type.
    I think he means that focusing on that type can be harmful. This is because he may not perfectly understand the type, and so there's a risk of artificially behaving as he expects that type to behave, thus losing options that would actually be better than what he ends up doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    hehehe yeah, and they usually reply with an example of a smoker who turned 100, ignoring all the death ones.
    Well, it's true that one counterexample disproves a universal rule.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    which nature? how many people you know died because of the smoking? most people talk about this but actually no one or very few have evidence among their relatives. strange. and stupid. i agree smoking raises the chances of being ill, as any excess, and i'm talking about heavy smoking only.

    @jason_m: denying your type is like denying you don't have talent for an art and keep struggling all your life to be something you are not. intense training has its effects, but what about habits and states of mind? they are training you do every second.
    The problem I find is that some people are talented at more than one thing. If I was only talented at Fi, then being able to observe this would help me find my talent.

    But that isn't really my problem. I would say that I'm most talented at Ti and Ne, but there are periods in my life when I use Fi far more. How do I resolve this conflict? How does one, on the one hand, end up having strong feelings of love and passion for someone, such that they are indulged in their feelings, but then, on the other hand, suck at relating to people and, in reality be much better at theoretical pursuits? That's the problem I face. In looking at it, I probably am an INTj, but there ends up being feelings of guilt for being indulged in my feelings, because doing this feels un-INTj-like. In other words, what Brilliand says.

    Jason
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    hey, this is a big problem of you... you should not take your type as a reference to confine to, you're not forbidden anything. be yourself, your type just explains you some things, you should probably read some more theory. for example, being Ethical is usually perceived "without logic", but i'd say instead of being a lack, the Feeling is an addition. everyone can think logically, but the Feelers put their personal values and feelings in the judgments, too. also anyone can have powerful emotions, although imo the logical types are not so prone to be biased by them in decisions.

    actually what are your real world skills? are you social, did you have problems with people or not? are you hold back or something? i perceive you as an ethical type, but whatever you are, i think it would be good to know your own type. it teaches you many things. and btw, feelings of passion and love are rather related to Fe than Fi. Fi is more of finding your place, bonds with the relatives, family, clan, ethical correctness, etc.

    for example, i don't use my type to confine to some "ILE rules", i make music and i'd like to perform, too. it unleashed my strengths, i'm not interested in being for example clean and ordered, but i use people for that. i also don't feel guilty anymore because i don't finish things, i agree i didn't find a solution for that (maybe i have to find someone dedicated to my initiative). but yeah, i feel much better with myself, i know where the problems came. i had these "problems" since the childhood but now all have a justification. plus i understand other people, i don't hate anymore people who i used to not understand, for example conservative, not theoretical, and other kind of people, i see their role in the society. in a company i know exactly what assignations to accept and where can i make my best, from my understood experience. actually that is, with typing you start understanding your life experience with people and know what to work on in the future. i found my happiness in relationship using this, i don't think i could find it else and at some point i though i'm too perfectionist (actually i was accused of this by my mother and others).

    so, find your type, study it well and compare it to the others, them make the best of it, it is a reality!
    The problem is that I don't find the ethical descriptions particularly inspiring. For example, suppose that I'm an EII. The description would be better suited to inspire someone to go into the ministry or become a clinical psychologist. Those pursuits are meaningless to me, so I can't exactly use them to guide me in my everyday life. They also assume things such as that EIIs have "problems with cold logic", but that is exactly where my skills lie. Therefore, if I followed them, the problem of being a talented artist going down the wrong path would be reversed; I would essentially be someone who has more of a scientific mind, and I would be told by the descriptions that I should be an artist. Perhaps I often think about art, but art isn't my talent, so why should I be told that? The answer to me is to not limit myself, so I don't feel like I'm being put into a box and so I'm not being encouraged to not pursue my true skills.

    Jason
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    btw, what are your skills with software? do you feel easy to learn and install new ones?
    I actually graduated with a degree in computer science with high honours, but I sucked at any of the practical stuff. My real talent was in mathematics. I got an A in every mathematics course I took in university. Anyways, I'm good at programming and understanding the theory behind how computers are designed, but I suck at learning things by rote, so I had a hard time learning things like, for example, all of the commands of a text editor for a test. I actually wanted to go into mathematics when I entered university, but I wasn't sure that I would get a job I would like. I probably should have gone into operations research (I'm assuming you know what that is).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    which nature? how many people you know died because of the smoking? most people talk about this but actually no one or very few have evidence among their relatives. strange. and stupid. i agree smoking raises the chances of being ill, as any excess, and i'm talking about heavy smoking only.
    Actually I've read quite some statistics about it. It has been thoroughly investigated.

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    My grandfather died of a melange of things, all related to smoking. He had emphysema and cancer for a year or so before his death, but I think in the end he starved to death, because the emphysema made it hard to eat (you need to stop breathing to swallow) and the cancer made him require more food than the average Joe. Actually I wonder if that part was more related to the chemo...



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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    9/11 was investigated, too . i've also read, too bad i didn't see or hear about enough incidents in real life to believe. and i know a lot of smokers, old and young.
    There's a difference between paranoid complot theorists, and serious science. But oke, I'm guessing you're just joking there.

    Sometimes your own experience can deviate from statistics.
    Do you know many people with a personality disorder? They are common, 1 in 7 people.

    Actually I've once read that smokers die younger not because their bad health, but because there's a correlation between smoking and risky behaviour. So if you take that into account, smoking might not be as bad as everyone thinks indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    i always said this. smoking is rather an effect (of the common cause) than a cause. if you look carefully smokers are usually more nervous and anxious than non-smokers. i think this have a huge impact on their health, especially on the heart.
    Huh, good point, never thought about it that way before
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    wow, i think that sucked.
    On the plus side, he died in his own home with his family around him.



    LII-Ne

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