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Thread: Mystery of the three clocks

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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Default Mystery of the three clocks



    The three concentric clock faces are three cycles (from inside to outside):

    • Feeling, Sensing, Thinking, Intuition
    • EP, EJ, IP, IJ
    • Base, Sending, Seeking, Receiving


    Each clock face rotates independently of the other two. What determines type is the relationship between the clock faces. For example, my type has Base, IJ and T aligned - signifying Democratic dominant. So I could have used two clock faces with labels on the outside rim, but I really wanted to make an obscure reference to a movie I liked.

    OK, why does IJ-T represent Alpha Ti and not Beta Ti? Because Beta Ti is a Sensing function. An ISTj would have Base, IJ and Sensing aligned. All Aristocratic elements are switched with the element they are blocked with, as follows:

    • Beta Fe is EJ-Intuition
    • Beta Ni is IP-Feeling
    • Beta Se is EP-Thinking
    • Beta Ti is IJ-Sensing
    • Delta Te is EJ-Sensing
    • Delta Si is IP-Thinking
    • Delta Ne is EP-Feeling
    • Delta Fi is IJ-Intuition


    What do these designations mean?


    • Feeling is that which determines purpose.
    • Sensing is that which creates certainty.
    • Thinking is that which determines truth.
    • Intuition is that which creates uncertainty.
    • EP is that which recognizes specific things.
    • EJ is that which generalizes many things into an integrated whole
    • IP is that which recognizes the functioning of the whole
    • IJ is that which divides up the whole to categorize the parts.


    Note that the Creative/HA distinction is gone - one is the Sending function and the other is the Receiving function, but which is which depends on Rational/Irrational.

    If we limit the clock faces to 90-degree rotations (and I'm not ready yet to consider the implications if we don't), we get a total of 16 types, each of which can be described in 4 different ways, for a total of 64 notations with slightly different meanings.

    For example, all of the following notations refer to my type:

    • IJ-T Base
    • EP-N Sending
    • EJ-F Seeking
    • IP-S Receiving


    Scrapped.
    Last edited by Brilliand; 03-20-2009 at 06:49 PM.



    LII-Ne

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    Oh, let's call the outer ring the "function ring," the second ring the "temperament ring," and the center ring the "element ring."



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
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    I'm a quarter past nine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I'm a quarter past nine.
    How about 9:00-6:00-12:00 (on the picture in the post)? That's ILI Te.

    Maybe I shouldn't have made the picture as ENFp then rotated it to show INTj... that makes it confusing.

    Here's the ENFp picture:


    And the INTp picture, rotated to emphasize Te:


    Quadra is the inner ring relative the the middle ring, and temperament is the outer ring relative to the inner ring. Outer ring relative to inner ring is dominant Jungian function (N,S,T,F) for Democratics, creative function for Aristocratics...



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

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    This appears quite a nice and simple thing. IMO though the sending and receiving are unintuitive words for what they represent here. Could you explain your reasoning for their choice?

    ...

    Umm... the congratulations above are just referring to the nice diagram actually. Your text seems to indicate that you have some very strange ideas in general and nothing that I want to associate with. And the diagram could do with some fixing too. But the concept of the diagram is really good, pretty even.
    Last edited by Smilingeyes; 03-18-2009 at 02:54 PM.
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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Is the INTp one correct? If yes I'm still a little bit confused. Why INTp is not IP-Thinking but ISTp is IP-Thinking? Have I misinterpreted the picture?

    EDIT: I think you tried to explain it, but I still didn't understand. Help , I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
    Last edited by Simon Ssmall; 03-18-2009 at 09:41 AM.
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    Creepy-Pied Piper

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    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    so, why? i mean what's the reason Ti aligned with sensing = perceiving?

    i mean, while the creative function maintains dynamicality and inverses extroversion (these 2 are mandatory for any type), the LII does not maintain the externality constant along each block. for example LSI maintains his objectivity: external Ti -> external Se while LII not: exernal Ti -> internal Ne.
    I've forced everything into the cycle Ji->Pe->Je->Pi, and redefined Thinking as Objective following Objective, Sensing as Objective following Subjective, etc. This reverses all the Aristocratic elements. It also makes the creative/agenda distinction hard to sustain, because they vary in which one comes after the base... so I replaced that with Sending/Receiving (i.e. "follows the base/the base follows it"). I'm having second thoughts though, because I'm having trouble reconciling this with other things that I want to incorporate - e.g. Model T.

    Looking at this from the perspective of the Smilexian dichotomies, this arose as the result of a strange definition of Extrovert/Introvert (element) as the result of Static or Dynamic processing, respectively.

    I actually see how the Smilexian clock faces can be reduced without distortion to four concentric rings similar to what I have here... so perhaps I'll do something like that tomorrow. I'd like to reduce it to three, if possible. Of course, they're already so cluttered that it may just add confusion...



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand
    I've forced everything into the cycle Ji->Pe->Je->Pi
    Yeah, it shows.
    First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

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