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Thread: SEIs and ILEs: suggestible or fully in control of your own minds?

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    Default SEIs and ILEs: suggestible or fully in control of your own minds?

    OK, I've just retyped Gulanzon as ESE. He admitted to being quite suggestible, while I have found that I basically can't be hypnotized. I have, at different times, related this constant grip on my own mind to or introversion. I'd rather not discuss other quadras just yet... so...

    SEIs and ILEs, are you suggestible or fully in control of your own minds?



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    Wait, are we talking about hypnosis or are we talking about people convincing you to change stances on a subject?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Wait, are we talking about hypnosis or are we talking about people convincing you to change stances on a subject?
    Hypnosis. Television commercials are probably related enough to count.

    Hmm, time to go read Gulenko again...



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    OK, derived from Gulenko:
    ESE: short-term suggestibility
    SEI: long-term suggestibility
    ILE: Not suggestible, but can program self long-term
    LII: Not suggestible, personal programming is temporary

    So an ILE could let himself be hypnotized, though it wouldn't come naturally... an LII could never be hypnotized in a very real sense (the option of breaking free is always there).

    This is related to static/dynamic and process/result.



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    I'll disagree on television commercials since an educated individual who understands commercials isn't about to be hypnotized by commercials.

    On the subject of hypnosis, I don't think that has anything to do with type. Hypnosis works on anyone who is willing to be hypnotized and open to the idea. It's not a matter of "can you be hypnotized" as much as "will you let yourself be hypnotized". The answer is that I could easily allow myself to be hypnotized, but I won't do it on a stage with a man who makes people do things that I would definitely regret doing on a stage, lol.
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    fwiw, I find that suggestions that are specifically issued through Si are the strongest for me. Just reading (which amounts to hearing) "I feel better" makes me think of a song where that's repeated ad nauseam. Same with chips--hearing a packet crackling and chips crunching makes me fel like I really need to go get myself some chips.

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    Hey Brilliand, might this have something to do with the activation function?

    Gulanzon's above post could be an example of Si activation (I still think he's Ne ENTp).

    I'd hate to make Si into comfort or physical pleasure, but this might be a manifestation of activation Si nonetheless.

    Tbh Si ESFj is a bit odd for Gulanzon. I'll consider it... Having trouble seeing the hetero-perceptory focus (rationality) though. He seems pretty "irrational" to me.


    *edit: Thinking about it more, I've realized that Fe has a similar affect on myself. I feel sort of... humbled before it, and it does have this "hypnotic power" over me. So perhaps this is how the activation works?

    Do you feel hypnotized by Fe Brill? I remember you discussing that singer, the christian one, who was influential to you...

    I'm gonna think about this.
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    I'd have to say I'm not suggestible, but I do take others' actions and desires into account. I'd more say that I'm very aware of peoples' desires regarding me and I choose to appear influenced based on my own personal preferences. I'm still very keen to help others, so I usually appear to have caved but am not personally opposed to whatever situation anyway.

    So in short, I probably appear to be easily influenced, but I am very strong in my own desires and this is not at all the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Hey Brilliand, might this have something to do with the activation function?
    You mean the DS? I have thought of that. It would explain quite a bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Tbh Si ESFj is a bit odd for Gulanzon. I'll consider it... Having trouble seeing the hetero-perceptory focus (rationality) though. He seems pretty "irrational" to me.
    How does SEI-Fe seem to you? Because I typed him as Model A ESE, which translates to Model X SEI-Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    *edit: Thinking about it more, I've realized that Fe has a similar affect on myself. I feel sort of... humbled before it, and it does have this "hypnotic power" over me. So perhaps this is how the activation works?
    Could be. For me, Fe feels good... but not really humbling. I guess it enables me to act, and in doing so determines what it is I'm able to do. (Before I do it though, it has to pass my limiting filters)

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Do you feel hypnotized by Fe Brill? I remember you discussing that singer, the christian one, who was influential to you...
    Yes, but he was more than .



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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Tbh Si ESFj is a bit odd for Gulanzon. I'll consider it... Having trouble seeing the hetero-perceptory focus (rationality) though. He seems pretty "irrational" to me.
    I'd like to discuss this with you, since it seems to be a recurring pattern (amongst lots of people, not just you).

    Fe is, by nature, quite irrational. Also, being extraverted, a lot of what I experience is locked away inside my head unless I got out and look for it, so it feels quite intuitive (in the traditional sense).

    I'd say I'm definitely EJ, though. I'm definitely dynamic (yeah, it's enough to say that really sudden, violent changes totally throw me off until I can get a handle on them again--like Bee randomly going "I quit my job"). I think one must consider that the internet (and much less forums!) is not the best medium for Fe. Back in the real world, the experience is like being a megaphone. Someone smiles and you're grinning, if they frown for no reason, you're trying to cheer them up. That's dynamic Fe guidance.

    This is something I notice my ESE aunt doing. She gets the tiniest signal and inflates it to something the size of Jupiter

    It's just how we roll, even though it can seem spiky, random, and unpredictable. I can drag one of my SLI friends in here, and he can tell you how annoyingly persistent I can be sometimes

    Um, actually, I got a bit scattered there. What I meant to say was...

    Fe only looks irrational because of how receptive it is. It still matches EJ temperament though, because there's always that element of guidance. Being extraverted means most of it actually happens subconsciously--much like how you, Jake, seem to get tugged around by things that seem interesting to you

    EDIT

    And Jake, what you said about being entranced by Fe... yeah, I notice the ILEs at school do that around me

    They give off a tiny Fe signal and I magnify it, and we're ramping the energy up and up all of a sudden. It's really exhilirating. Plus, your Ne is great fun. Problem is that activity really burns you out.

    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Could be. For me, Fe feels good... but not really humbling. I guess it enables me to act, and in doing so determines what it is I'm able to do. (Before I do it though, it has to pass my limiting filters)
    Yeah, Ti is much the same for me. With Brill, he naturally communicates things in digestible bytes that I can take in easily while we team up with Ne and discuss random nerdy things

    It's just a feeling of relief. Like someone offering to carry your luggage, then bouncing it off their pinky and saying "See? It's easy!"

    Glad to hear it's mutual, too
    Last edited by male; 03-18-2009 at 02:59 AM.

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    gul, I can't help but notice that you have had convincing arguments for 1/4 of the socion. I am not sure where this is stemming from, but I seriously doubt you are ESFj.
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    It's stemming from Ti DS~

    Oh, and I view my IEE arguments as being misinterpreting evidence for ESE. (Ti is weak... OMG PoLR (...lolno))

    And yeah, again, internet forums are not the best medium for displaying ESEness.

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    Well Gul I'm really not sure.

    But you are quite correct on that Fe being "irrational" bit. I mean irrational in the general sense. Fe is quite intuitive, so yep I get ya.

    Welp, all I know is that you're definitely Alpha lol.

    I'm going with Ne ENTp, but, once again, I'm not close minded.

    It was mostly you being Delta that I was hardlining against.
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    Not just Fe. I'd be inclined to think all extraverts work on an intuitive level, hence why, or because of being outward-turning.

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    hmm idk about that. I think everyone intuits.

    In fact it would be basically impossible not to. We are picking up on little hints and subconsciouslessly acting on them every second.

    But more in a socionics sense, I tend to see all the internal elements (Ne, Fe, Fi, Ni) as primarily intuitive and Si is the least concrete of the externals, so it has intuitive elements as well.

    Extrotim's simply are object focused in their mode and Introtim's field focused.

    I'd actually see fields as slightly more intuitive though, so maybe you can clarify?
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    Well, Brill described using Ti to consciously pick through and sort things. He's also an introvert...

    So I consider that extratims are intuitive while introtims are conscious...ful...whatever. You know what I mean.

    This may be different for Irrationals, since they have much closer to a one-to-one correspondence with reality.

    Additionally, I think it might possibly be more related to thinking styles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    i agree. except i think Ti is the least concrete external element because Si is dynamic, static elements don't have the evolution in time conscience. like things evolve from state A "somehow" to state B, you know what i mean?

    i see the basic 3 dichotomies like the answers to the three circumstantial questions: "when?", "where?", "how?" - time, place, manner (important! "when" asks for the body/field dichotomy and "how" to the dynamic one*). each void answer ("i don't know") results in a negative (i call it "yin" because it is somehow a lack which is, something hidden, not really a polarity or negation) line.
    if you probably figure out the answers for extroversion and externality, for the the statics the answer to "how" is "i don't know/i don't give a sh**". so, as long as Ti doesn't know the answer to this question, it is more "intuitive" than Si.



    * - "when" refers to the source moment, a frame in time. an extrovert decides pretty fast when to act. "how" refers to perception of changes in time required between two states. external elements have always a spatial (geometrical) perception - place, position. the external perception of quantity, heaviness is also geometrical eg: the primitive mind (no physics) always thinks the bigger ball is heavier, even if it actually is much less dense.

    Actually, I agree with you on that. I've been considering static as more "abstract" than dynamic as of late.

    Static never happens because the "present" is over before you can consider it. A stillness is only conceptual. Its either looking into a future stillness or a past one.

    Hmmm, yes I will ponder this.

    *goes in 5 corner*

    *edit: okay then so...

    Te Se Si Ti Fe Ne Ni Fi

    so Fi is the most abstract... That's interesting.

    Maybe we're getting "abstract" wrong though.

    Because dynamic is 4th dimensional the only way we can experience it is in the present. Past and future are non real.

    Well then again every point in time exists, and our present selves may only be an illusion.

    Either way, both static and dynamic are abstract. Maybe Static has a "delay" quality to it. Like when you're looking at a beach you keep the mental image of the beach still, while considering the statics of it. Then your perception jumps when a major change is instituted.

    Idk, I should think more about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    gul, I can't help but notice that you have had convincing arguments for 1/4 of the socion. I am not sure where this is stemming from, but I seriously doubt you are ESFj.
    I know I may have started this fiasco, but I'm inclined to agree. I propose a test for you - spend a week posting in each quadra, and find the line of best fit for you, find your place of most acceptance. From there, you can narrow it down further. I'm wondering upon the possibility of Beta tbh. You seem quite focused on the idea of creating a drama of situations in a fun and confronting way.....that seems Beta>Alpha idk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    I know I may have started this fiasco, but I'm inclined to agree. I propose a test for you - spend a week posting in each quadra, and find the line of best fit for you, find your place of most acceptance. From there, you can narrow it down further. I'm wondering upon the possibility of Beta tbh. You seem quite focused on the idea of creating a drama of situations in a fun and confronting way.....that seems Beta>Alpha idk?
    Confronting? Nah! I don't think we can deviate from a basically and type. And that limits it to ENTp=ENTp-Ne and ESFj=ISFp-Fe/ESFj-Si. What's the quality of his Si?



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    Hey, Brillbo baggins lol

    yeah I'm damn sure he's an Alpha irrational and I'm heavily leaning towards Ne ENTp tbh

    I really cannot see Beta. How has he shown Ni or Se?
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