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Thread: Archonalarion and Tom

  1. #1
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default Archonalarion and Tom

    Just something to put out there, in regards to Archonalarion and to a certain part Tom.

    I've been watching Archonalarion's posting and communicated with him a few times.

    I've thought at first for a little bit that his focus was on Ti, which would support to an extent his ENTp typing.

    Now, from discussion with him and seeing some of his discussions with others, I think his Ti is somewhat unfocused, a bit confused..somewhat disjointed. He seems to value it but not be particularly good at it.

    Also, I think his aggression sort of arguing style reminds me of some of the aggressor/victim we've seen on the forum, for instance crazedrat, Phaedrus and to a certain point strrrng (no offense meant if you read this strrrng, it's just an observation).

    I've also observed how he often responds in a way that looks to me as rather emotionial, kind of ignoring or not 'liking' relevant data and discussing factual information when presented with it in discussion (possible de-valued Te/Te PoLR?). I refer to the "What is Fi?" thread in general discussion, his posts in that thread, but perhaps particularly how he is responding/communicating with Warlord.

    As far as I know, Archonalarion started out on the forum as an INTp, now what I wonder, in view of the above, if he's actually an INFp (weak logic, aggressor-infantile, valued Fe).

    Also, it seems pretty clear to most people that Tom is an LSI. So, as far as i'm aware, they're pretty good friends IRL and joined this forum together.

    Perhaps Tom and Archonalarion are activator relations, which would explain there friendship, at least 'socionically'.

    I don't really start threads about peoples types, but I thought this may be interesting for discussion all the same, if anyone has any thoughts/anything to contribute? It could be useful for learning stuff as well I thought.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 03-15-2009 at 10:33 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    No.

    The anger stems from you guys saying that Fe is conforming to ethical norms.

    Its obvious BS and the fact that people who have been here so long can agree with it baffles and irritates me.


    Im not INFp, Im not Beta, Im not Se valuing.

    Its not unfocused Ti....

    I know you guys currently have no interest in the aspects and therefore Im not going to waste my energy writing about it when people are going to reply with, "OH NOES MODEL X STUFF, BOO HISS!"

    I'm angry because there is little intellectual curiosty about socionics here and when people attempt to innovate there are some here who just mock them.

    Its sickening.
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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Go to hell carla.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    No.

    The anger stems from you guys saying that Fe is conforming to ethical norms.

    Its obvious BS and the fact that people who have been here so long can agree with it baffles and irritates me.


    Im not INFp, Im not Beta, Im not Se valuing.

    Its not unfocused Ti....

    I know you guys currently have no interest in the aspects and therefore Im not going to waste my energy writing about it when people are going to reply with, "OH NOES MODEL X STUFF, BOO HISS!"

    I'm angry because there is little intellectual curiosty about socionics here and when people attempt to innovate there are some here who just mock them.

    Its sickening.
    How long have you been studying Socionics?

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    100,00 years

    so that means that no matter what anyone says, Ill always be right because I've known about it longest.
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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    lol, relax peoples.

    Having met archon I can say the tendencies you're talking about just aren't in play, cyclops. You can take that or leave it if you want, but Jake is very probably ILE. It sounds like he pretty much just got pissed over a not very good functional description.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    lol, relax peoples.

    Having met archon I can say the tendencies you're talking about just aren't in play, cyclops. You can take that or leave it if you want, but Jake is very probably ILE. It sounds like he pretty much just got pissed over a not very good functional description.

    yep thats basically exactly what happened.



    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    100,00 years

    so that means that no matter what anyone says, Ill always be right because I've known about it longest.

    When I discovered Socionics 7 years ago I was fascinated by it, but it took me a long time to sort through the facts. It took me three years to discover the displacement laws, for example. You likely don't know them but they are fundamentally important.

    Now I realize that figuring out who I am is a process that one can't learn behind a computer screen taking online tests. One must actually experience life.

    You seem to want to be an authority on this forum but you don't have the experience or understanding(which all takes time to develop) to warrant that.

    I see a bit of me in you. I see in some ways how I was when I read your posts and watch your youtube videos.

    I can tell that you are jealous of me and that is why you are against what I say. You don't want anyone else to be smart but you.

    I think that is the truth. It takes one to know one.
    Last edited by Waddlesworth; 03-15-2009 at 11:56 PM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Having met archon I can say the tendencies you're talking about just aren't in play, cyclops. You can take that or leave it if you want, but Jake is very probably ILE. It sounds like he pretty much just got pissed over a not very good functional description.
    But aren't the other people who also have met him, saying that he's not?
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    yes Niffweed and implied.

    and thats based on my shyness.

    Im sorry. I can be shy with relative strangers. Does that mean Im Ni?

    gah.
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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    When I started to read this thread I expected to find out something interesting, such as "Tom and Archon Alarion are the same person, Tom is actually an old woman, Tom and Archon Alarion are secret lovers, etc".

    Doubts on someone's socionics type has become a cliche.
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    what if we were all of those??

    lmaooo
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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    what if we were all of those??

    lmaooo
    It would mean you are jerking yourself off, old woman!
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

  14. #14
    Creepy-Pied Piper

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  15. #15
    Creepy-bg

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    it's threads like these that make me hate socionics. feel free to continue though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Now, from discussion with him and seeing some of his discussions with others, I think his Ti is somewhat unfocused, a bit confused..somewhat disjointed. He seems to value it but not be particularly good at it.
    At first glance he seemed almost obsessed with Ti, and actually very good at it. Which is a pitty :-) For the record, I don't know him that well...

  17. #17
    Creepy-bg

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    lol that's that midget kid from Little People, Big World isn't it? hahah that show is horrible! (yet I've watched it enough to recognize him )

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    lol wowwwww...

    frankly I dont even know what to say.

    But keep going because eventually I might be every type


    Really this is getting absurd.

    Basically if you get pissed at people on 16types for being morons you = beta.

    Gah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    it's threads like these that make me hate socionics. feel free to continue though
    yes.
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

  20. #20
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Nah, he's just going through puberty.
    Possibly
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    When I started to read this thread I expected to find out something interesting, such as "Tom and Archon Alarion are the same person, Tom is actually an old woman, Tom and Archon Alarion are secret lovers, etc".

    Doubts on someone's socionics type has become a cliche.
    Socionics discussions and forums has probably become a bit of a cliche.

    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    accidentally i was just ready to start a thread to debate if ArchonAlarion is an LSI. the impression of he not being an ILE grows more and more. maybe i'm a bit off-topic because i don't know Tom but i'll say my thoughts.

    i see ArchonAlarion somehow "different", he looks more "inertial" to me, compared to ILEs i know and i see on the forum. i see him slow but steady, also watched his videos and it confirms me that.
    ArchonAlarion, you don't look to me excited usually how a typical ILE is, but mainly determined and methodical. and... a bit stubborn . i perceive you basing your knowledge on the writings, bills and whatever you consider established documentation, although ILEs are many times surpassing the rules, exposing their insights.
    but compared to LSIs, ILEs can come back quickly and dismiss their temporary "raving" easily which don't seem to apply to you. you seem to have a feeling of working on solid grounds, take your independent conclusions (and innovations) although you seem not at all ready to step back. not that stepping back is a good solution (especially when you are right it is the worst thing to do), but ILEs "prime matter" is so volatile and "drafty" that hardly one can be confident in it.

    i could analyze more of your posts, if i have the time, now i briefed some of my observations. reading above i can see some points:
    - "I have always thought abstractly and the hidden underlying connections and processes interest me significantly more than physical ones..." i see this more related to strong logic, specifically in your case Ti: how to see the structure of this wold, to put it in a logical system, the hierarchy of things.
    - "Strrrng and Steve. Both say I'm Alpha, Steve believes Im ILE." - don't know about Steve, but strrrng throws in Alpha what he doesn't like. check him out (this was half serious/half joke)
    - "I often make up worlds in my head."
    "I like drawing maps of fantasy worlds and creating histories for them."
    "I am also a gamer. Mostly I like strategy games and role playing games. Since I can remember I've wanted to be a god, so naturally Im drawn to games like Black and White, Fable, Total War series, Oblivion."
    "I must admit I do enjoy designing rules for games and assigning attributes, which I consider TiNe." - these express traits arguably found mostly among LSIs. they build their ow system, and rather try to adapt the reality to their (perfect) one than to adapt. by contrast, LIIs prefer to isolate from the "imperfection" to have a steady flow.

    "assignation", "conscription" - words which if not invented by LSI then by who? LIIs, the Ne rulers prefer to find those attributes in characters, instead of dictating them roles. ILEs too, they discover the good characters in the games and dismiss those who don't prove possibly useful. ILEs are interested in the whole game world idea to be able to manage their characters/team around, rather than making it perfect. SLEs prefer to focus on being powerful, being good and taking the victories, with only as much interest in the whole system as they need to avoid loosing.

    question: do you like multi-player games, too?

    ps: you like boxxy very much, as an LSI you could have a happy life with one like her, but as an ILE it would suck
    You could be right, it would be interesting to see what Archonalarion thinks about your post.

    If Tom is an LSI, which he seems to be, he could be feeding off Tom's Ti.

    But I thought that Archon didn't seem quite like an ILE to me, so I think it could be interesting for discussion in regards to his type.

    I think Archon would probably contribute to it, as he seems quite keen on discussing socionics as per his posting content on the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    it's threads like these that make me hate socionics. feel free to continue though
    Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    At first glance he seemed almost obsessed with Ti, and actually very good at it. Which is a pitty :-) For the record, I don't know him that well...
    Ha yeah, you could be right, his Ti valueing upset me too haha (j/k)

    As I sort of mentioned in OP, I don't really start typing threads on others..infact this is my first, but I was interested in what others views on this were..what his typing is/could be, and I thought also Archon wouldn't mind contributing also as he speaks keenly of socionics and advancing the topic and such.

  21. #21
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    lol wowwwww...

    frankly I dont even know what to say.

    But keep going because eventually I might be every type


    Really this is getting absurd.

    Basically if you get pissed at people on 16types for being morons you = beta.

    Gah.
    This is rubbish and I wish you would stop generalising people, or at least me.

    But.. If you are not finding this thread pleasant i'll ask a mod or an admin to close it. (I guess others have contributed some thoughts so closing it would be better than deleting it so that they don't have to loose their posts and also that way they can decide themselves what to do with them..if anything).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post


    lol
    He lives right down the street from where I work...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    I'm angry because there is little intellectual curiosty about socionics here and when people attempt to innovate there are some here who just mock them.

    Its sickening.
    I think it has to do with the people trying to innovate calling everyone morons and idiots for what they do think, which then leads people to become defensive which then causes people to not take them seriously... which then causes those trying to be innovators to be total assholes and pricks to everyone because they were being assholes and pricks to them... so on and so on. If there were a way to PROVE a theory, this wouldn't happen nearly as often as it does... which is the big problem here, there's no proof who's right or wrong. So everyone's stuck thinking what they think and there's no middle ground. So, I suggest you start sending envelopes of anthrax to people standing in your way, that should work to let you become the innovator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waddlesworth View Post
    You seem to want to be an authority on this forum but you don't have the experience or understanding(which all takes time to develop) to warrant that.
    This brings up the quote: "You can't jump in the ring with Ali cuz you think you can box."

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Basically if you get pissed at people on 16types for being morons you = beta.
    lol, pretty much... Now, do we blame that on the Beta's that made that stereotype come to everyone's mind or the people who started thinking that about Beta's and classifying them all that way.

  23. #23
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    that was directed mostly at ephemeros

    (gotta remember that quote thing lol)

    Im not finding it pleasant in the slightest, but I'd never stifle it. Thats not very "open."


    If your conception of ENTp is one way and Im different, then of course you will think I'm something else.

    Im not a fan of community type discussion tbh. The person being typed is often ganged up on and its pretty nasty in general. Also you have no idea (besides the new york people) how I act irl, and i think my angry posts about Fe have for some strange reason led you to believe Im Se valuing.
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  24. #24
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    OK, also fwiw, I really dislike the way some threads I've seen go in that it becomes bullying in a way of putting a type on someone.

    I've really tried not to let it go this way, I was just genuinely curious this evening while logged on as to what others saw as your typing and what reasons they would put forward.

    I put forward some possible ideas on your type but by no means to say it's right, just a starting point for discussion I guess.

    If I thought the thread was going 'bad' like bullying or group forcing I would have either posted against it or asked for thread to be closed anyway. Maybe it is best overall for thread to close now lol. Well, we'll see if anyone else posts now but probably not.

    Also, as a side note, I noticed that you seemed quite keen on questioning Warlords type..which seemed..irrelevant to the discussion you were having with him, so I suppose we are all guilty of it sometimes, but maybe it shouldn't be done.

    Also, perhaps peoples types shouldn't be questioned unless they start the discussion themselves..but like you say that can result in an oppression of open discussion..too..draconian perhaps.

    So yeah, I didn't mean anything personal by this thread, I was just curious is all.

    No need to discuss it further if you don't want. fwiw, I kinda like you :-)

    Another piece of riveting information haha.. I've heard some people say that it's kinda flattering when a typing thread is opened about them..it means to them that they are being noticed by others!

    And look who's forgotten to quote who this time

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    lol, relax peoples.

    Having met archon I can say the tendencies you're talking about just aren't in play, cyclops. You can take that or leave it if you want, but Jake is very probably ILE. It sounds like he pretty much just got pissed over a not very good functional description.
    having also met archon i regrettably say that i agree almost fully with cyclops post. ILE is basically inconceivable. i basically have no idea why anyone would ever seen archonalarion as an Ne type; perhaps on the forum he comes across as spontaneous and energetic but basically this type of comment, from someone who has also seen archon in similar contexts to the ones i've seen him in myself, confuses me greatly as to what you're looking at.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    lollll

    well meeting you, I'd say INTp is "inconceivable".

    Hopefully i will be able to get a video in later tonight, which will most likely be up by tomorrow.
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  28. #28
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    Archon, I think it is a valid point that ephemeros makes that you didn't address any of his points. Infact I haven't actually seen you address anyones points of late, you just seem to cling to saying "internal dynamics of objects" without really demonstrating what it actually means, and when you do, it seems to myself to be quite wrong.

    Maybe you are changing the definitions of functions so much in order to fit in with a typing of ILE.

    Also, you seem to take personal offense a lot at how functions are described, if you think it sounds, "insulting" or condescending or what not. I don't understand that, esp when people aren't meaning to cause offense. It seems to be your primary reaction, to get expressively emotional about it, to put it in a simple way. Perhaps this points to , but I don't see it pointing to a logical function in terms of your main way of arguing, tbh.

    As a random example, earlier this evening I had agreed with someone who had said that Jung mentioned that dominants can be perceived as boring. As I mentioned I can be perceived as boring, it doesn't bother me. I would say i'm examining it logically and not from an "emotional" pov. I don't think you typically argue like a logical type, and I suspect that your frustration is only a part of that.

    Even when you do attempt logic, to me it's still pretty emotionally expressive in how you write.

    I haven't met you (of course!) or seen a video of you, but I do agree that from what i've heard about the New York meeting, you're far too subdued to be an ILE, even for an Ne dominant who can appear more subdued than some other extraverted dominant types. I think your main focus in an introverted function.

    Whatever type you are.. IEI or ILI or some other type, I don't see ILE, nor do I see the Ne dominant possibilities again for a short hand expression, that ephemeros detailed on some more in his post.

  29. #29
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Archon, I think it is a valid point that ephemeros makes that you didn't address any of his points. Infact I haven't actually seen you address anyones points of late, you just seem to cling to saying "internal dynamics of objects" without really demonstrating what it actually means, and when you do, it seems to myself to be quite wrong.
    Sometimes creative Ti can just get bored with things that are "obviously wrong" and won't feel they warrant a reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Also, you seem to take personal offense a lot at how functions are described, if you think it sounds, "insulting" or condescending or what not. I don't understand that, esp when people aren't meaning to cause offense. It seems to be your primary reaction, to get expressively emotional about it, to put it in a simple way. Perhaps this points to , but I don't see it pointing to a logical function in terms of your main way of arguing, tbh.
    Not type related. Compare Steve with Ephemeros, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Even when you do attempt logic, to me it's still pretty emotionally expressive in how you write.
    Hmm. I see what you mean. Are you perhaps conflating too many things in Jake's communication?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I haven't met you (of course!) or seen a video of you, but I do agree that from what i've heard about the New York meeting, you're far too subdued to be an ILE, even for an Ne dominant who can appear more subdued than some other extraverted dominant types. I think your main focus in an introverted function.
    Never underestimate shyness. Especially because of my PoLR, I prefer only to speak when invited to for fear of offending some obscure, invisible social custom. Though, to be fair, "it's not type-related~".

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Whatever type you are.. IEI or ILI or some other type, I don't see ILE, nor do I see the Ne dominant possibilities again for a short hand expression, that ephemeros detailed on some more in his post.
    I agree, actually. I don't see much Ne from him either.

    EDIT

    There's also this psychology among ILEs where's there's a black-and-white divide between "everyone" and "no-one" being a "friend" or an "enemy". We can be amazingly insecure like that. In fact, what Jake's doing now is something I've done in the past. All this aggression is, frankly, not helping his perception.

    Cyclops, you may just be discussing his typing, but I think you need to step back a bit. Trust me, we can read that behaviour as an attack.

    fwiw, it's entirely possible for ILEs to develop a feeling that they have to viciously defend everything due to a past history with Ne and Fe openly being mocked and used as a tool to single us out/not take us seriously/whatever. That's completely unrelated to extraverted sensing: it's a normal defense mechanism.

    There. That's my 2 pi.
    Last edited by male; 03-16-2009 at 01:56 AM.

  30. #30
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  31. #31
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    Archon as LSI. That's the funniest thing I've read on this forum today.
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    Because between watching Archon on the forum, interacting with him via webcam and spending time with him in New York, I can readily assure you that he is most certainly not an LSI. He shows absolutely no signs of an Se ego.
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  34. #34
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    Wow, it's like the ILE justice league in here

  35. #35
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    This has (once again) everything to do with socionics politics and nothing to do with my type.

    Its an interesting dynamic that has risen in this community:

    If someone disagrees with your theory, you say they are a different type, which if they were wrong about their self-typing, would likely make their theories moot.

    That is basically what this is all about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    This has (once again) everything to do with socionics politics and nothing to do with my type.

    Its an interesting dynamic that has risen in this community:

    If someone disagrees with your theory, you say they are a different type, which if they were wrong about their self-typing, would likely make their theories moot.

    That is basically what this is all about.
    This can be easily proved false.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    That's because you're an ENTj SubT!

    @ephemeros

    It wouldn't matter what I say. You have to see me in action. That's why Im waiting to make a video.

    I mean what am I going to say?

    That I hate it when people try to tell me how something is actually without looking at what is in essence, what type of thing it is, that it could be a different thing whilst keeping the same attributes?

    That I play the witty clown in school?

    That I am soooo lazy and my productivity is entirely dependent on my mood.

    That I'm a spaz when happy. I get loud, boisterous, and silly. I jump around like a nut.

    What little self description will convince you I'm ENTp???

    I doubt any will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    That's because you're an ENTj SubT!
    Niffweed doesn't think so, so I very much doubt it.

  40. #40
    Creepy-bg

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    this thread...
    wow...
    just wow.

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