Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 42

Thread: The Beatles

  1. #1
    JuJu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield, Massachusetts, USA
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    2,704
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default The Beatles

    Socionics case study: The Beatles

    I came across an old thread on the Beatles' types, (three years old or thereabouts.) Obviously, that thread was started long before anyone here knew much about Socionics, so the guesses were a bit off, i.e. someone said they were all Alpha. I thought about this b.s. this morning, as I have the week off from school.

    In terms of Socionics, the Beatles worked well together because both Lennon's and Harrison's beta writings were balanced by McCartney's alpha writings. Beatles albums were rarely, if ever, 'too heavy' (the critique frequently levied against both Lennon's and Harrison's solo albums) or 'too light' (the general critique of McCartney's solo albums.)

    More specifically, for every biting, dissonant "Happiness is a Warm Gun," or experimental "A Day In The Life," (both Lennon songs,) McCartney would counter with upbeat songs like "Your Mother Should Know," "Two of Us," or ballads like "I Will" and "The Long and Winding Road."

    Sometimes different quadra voices could be heard in the same Beatles' song, e.g. "I've Got a Feeling," (a typically upbeat McCartney rock n' roll song until Lennon starts singing about having a hard year and wet dreams,) or even the 90s Beatles' song, "Free as a Bird." In other cases, McCartney would write the melody to a Lennon lyric, to make the song more commercially appealing, e.g. "Nowhere Man." Likewise, Lennon would sometimes add lyrics to McCartney songs to give them more bite, e.g. "Getting Better." ("I have to admit/ It's getting better/Better all the time." - McCartney. "It couldn't get much worse." -Lennon.)

    Even the Beatles' albums can be characterized by Socionics quadra, with Sgt. Pepper dominated by alpha themes and songs, (e.g. "A little help from my friends;" "Lovely Rita," down to the album concept and cover art.) The White Album is filled with beta songs and themes, ("Revolution 9; Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except for Me and My Monkey," down to the album cover and concept.)

    John Lennon = ENFj ... His wife, Yoko Ono, is ISTj. Lennon's closest friend in the Beatles was Harrison, another beta NF... Critical of McCartney for years after The Beatles' break-up, (see: "How Do You Sleep?" from Imagine.) That said, Lennon seemed to envy McCartney's post-Beatles commercial success, e.g. reportedly waking Yoko up during the night and asking, "why do they always cover Paul's songs and not mine?" Also saying that "no one has caused [him] more pain in life" than McCartney. To those familiar with Socionics, the case for Lennon as ENFj becomes fairly obvious during interviews, especially post-Beatles, (see interview with Dick Cavett on YouTube.)

    George Harrison = INFp ... Wife Olivia is ESTp. Solo material emphasized religion, Eastern wisdom, and mysticism. Caustic, ironic sense of humor, (see interview with Dick Cavett on YouTube.) Frequently criticized and made fun of McCartney following the Beatles' break-up, and openly resented him before it, (see: Let it Be film.) Looked to Lennon as a mentor. "The quiet Beatle," with the 'I'm looking through you' Ni look you see on people like Nick (strrrng.)

    Paul McCartney = ISFp ... McCartney's long-time wife, Linda, was ENTp. Both were large proponents of vegetarianism and animal rights. As they matured, McCartney and Lennon (and Harrison, for that matter,) did not did not see eye-to-eye beyond music, (or even re: music,) i.e. different philosophies, exemplified by McCartney's reveling in the pastoral and domestic (see Ram, McCartney solo albums) vs. John's politicizing and avant-garde interests (see Plastic Ono Band and Sometime In New York City solo albums.) Defiantly released popular songs about nothing for years following the Beatles break-up, e.g. "Silly Long Songs."

    Ringo Starr = ENTp ... Wife Barbara Bach (former Bond Girl, I'm pretty sure,) is ISFp. Did not write his own songs, for the most part, (except "Octopus' Garden" and "Don't Pass Me By," and maybe a couple others,) although his personality comes through in interviews. Good friends with McCartney, i.e. in the Beatles, would often vacation with McCartney, while Lennon would often vacation with Harrison.

  2. #2
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've heard that they were actually into socionics and self-typed as all Gamma.

    Not only does that sound strange, but the self-typing as gamma is kinda ridiculous. I think overall they are Alpha.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  3. #3
    JuJu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Springfield, Massachusetts, USA
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    2,704
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Not only does that sound strange, but the self-typing as gamma is kinda ridiculous. I think overall they are Alpha.
    Like I said in that massive missive, it depends on which album you're talking about... Overall, I agree with you though--the popular image of the Beatles that survives is of the Sgt. Pepper era, which is decidedly Alpha.

    Perhaps largely b/c Paul McCartney, in all his Alpha-ness, was their most potent and prolific songwriter at the height of their popularity. (Lennon had his moments, for sure, but his influence loomed largest during their early years, e.g. "Help!" and during the white album.)

    There is not a single one of the Beatles, you are right, who is Gamma. (Or Delta for that matter.)

  4. #4
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    TIM
    Beta sx 3w4;7w8
    Posts
    3,401
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How lucky for all 4 of them to have married their Duals. Sweet.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  5. #5
    07490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    there
    Posts
    3,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    How lucky for all 4 of them to have married their Duals. Sweet.
    Wp gave me a link which i find very interesting. in there it saids there is a study conducted that about 30% of the people have a dual as their marriage partner which i thought was hard to believe at first, but based on my account of experiences I think that percentage may be legit I have passed by alot of duality partner.

    Here is the link.

    Experiencing Dual Relations
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

  6. #6
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Also, I'd expect people who marry their duals to be more successful... all that psychic backup has to count for something.

    Of course, marriage isn't the only thing you can do with your dual that will help (e.g. a long-term business partnership).



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  7. #7
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Also, I'd expect people who marry their duals to be more successful... all that psychic backup has to count for something.

    Of course, marriage isn't the only thing you can do with your dual that will help (e.g. a long-term business partnership).
    Yes, that makes sense.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  8. #8
    jughead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NC
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    883
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    where did you read the Beatles knew about socionics??? Yeah having all dual spouses is bound to be good for the stability of the band if thats true. I recently read that there sucess comes from their 10,000 hours plus of practice and performing together before they got big. The 10,000 hours of practice is the figure given for people to become masters at any skill.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default The Beatles?

    Don't know if there is a general consensus on this, but I searched the forum to no avail.

    Anyone else think EIE for Lennon?
    What about IEI for McCartney? I actually know little about the man, but some VI and seeing the interaction b/w him and Lennon makes me wonder. His songwriting might vouch for the idea as well. Seems to lack the obscurity that I'd expect, however, being that what they were doing is considered to have been very redefining in its time, it's hard to say. He seems to center around a lot of romanticism conceptually though, and I could very easily see the more tame sort of IEI songwriter there.

  10. #10
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Beta NF makes sense for Lennon
    McCartney I see as Alpha, maybe ESE?
    I don't know enough about the other two.
    Stan is not my real name.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sorry, I actually meant IEE for Lennon. I used to post way back before ya'll started using the socionics acronyms.
    Does this greatly conflict with you?
    Beta NF seems to be a worthy consideration for most musicians in these types of positions. I read part of a biography and it was definately steering me in a VERY IEE direction, though.

    And I could see McCartney I could definately see as Alpha as well, though I'd be more inclined to put him as SEI.

  12. #12
    crazedrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ENTp makes more sense for lennon. ESFp for mccartney, maybe INTj for harrison and alpha SF for ringo.
    INTp

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratXII View Post
    ENTp makes more sense for lennon. ESFp for mccartney, maybe INTj for harrison and alpha SF for ringo.
    Or maybe I'm just getting a VERY Ne vibe, fair enough. Why do you say ENTP makes more sense?

  14. #14
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stan is not my real name.

  15. #15
    Restricted user
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,078
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  16. #16
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism View Post
    I don't like the Beatles, so obviously they are not Gamma.
    a) how does one not like the Beatles?

    b) most of their music is pretty Alpha, with some Beta mixed in
    Stan is not my real name.

  17. #17
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah even my ISFj friend likes The Beatles. Granted we don't like everything about them but they wrote some nice songs. Some of their stuff is way too annoyingly simple though. They come up with a good segment but then ruin the rest of the song. Doesn't every band do that though? I personally like their music a lot.

    Lennon: Ti-ENTp
    McCartney: Fe-ISFp
    Harrison: Ne-INTj
    Starr: ??-????

  18. #18
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's an unrelated song for example that has a pretty decent catchiness, but then they just totally ruin it at 1:23. Though its definitely better than that new remix version.



    The Beatles does it somewhat differently. Their setup is pretty nice in this example, but then when the main melody comes around it's just becomes totally annoying and repetitive quickly. There's no development there or after.



    If you can look beyond the bad, these are examples of still pretty good songs. Though "every breath you take" is much better in my opinion.

    Some Beatles songs I like off the top of my head are Here Comes the Sun, Michelle, and In My life.

  19. #19
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I don't like the Beatles, so obviously they are not Gamma.
    This is not a sound argument, but one based on an emotional like and dislike as opposed to reason and evidence. Winston Churchill can hate Hitler and Stalin, but that does not make the three any less Beta.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  20. #20
    Restricted user
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,078
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  21. #21
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,450
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I want to say Ringo Starr is EXFj.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  22. #22
    Restricted user
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,078
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  23. #23
    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In your pants
    TIM
    IEE-Ne cp 6w7 sx/so
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctures View Post
    I want to say Ringo Starr is EXFj.
    He seems too subdued to me to be Fe leading...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'm not sure. They just never did it for me. And probably because an association between Beatles music and the unholy visage of shirtless hitta on Stickam/tinychat is forever scarred into my brain.
    Haha! I'm glad I've never had to lay eyes upon such horrors.

    Seriously though, I'm usually skeptical of people who say they don't like the Beatles because their music is so diverse. It usually means the person has had a limited exposure to only one type on Beatles song (usually the "I wanna hold your hand" type). The best excuse I've gotten was the fidelity, and that guy even admitted to liking higher quality Beatles covers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Paul McCartney seems a definite Fe-ISFp to me.
    George Harrison I recall thinking of as likely Ne-INTj.
    John Lennon I wondered Ti-ENTp before though I'm not at all convinced of this. He's someone I still need to look into further.
    Ringo Starr I have no idea.
    I find it hard to see Lennon as anything other than a beta NF. His songs and lyrics are just so dreamy and melancholy, and his post-Beatles music is ridiculously idealistic. Plus, his relationship with Paul seems a little too complex and fraught with difficulties and criticisms to be duality.
    Stan is not my real name.

  24. #24
    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    everywhere at once
    Posts
    8,450
    Mentioned
    203 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    He seems too subdued to me to be Fe leading...
    That's actually a trait that I find in a lot of EXFj men. Being Fe leading doesn't mean being off-the-walls spastic crazy. I'm open to other suggestions for Starr though.


    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    I find it hard to see Lennon as anything other than a beta NF. His songs and lyrics are just so dreamy and melancholy, and his post-Beatles music is ridiculously idealistic.
    And ENTps can't be idealistic or dreamy or melancholy? You should have a chat with our friend archonalarion haha

    Quote Originally Posted by stanprollyright View Post
    Plus, his relationship with Paul seems a little too complex and fraught with difficulties and criticisms to be duality.
    Duality doesn't mean both parties will get along perfectly in all situations.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

  25. #25
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Beatles has to be Delta

  26. #26
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Beatles has to be Delta
    Why do they have to be Delta?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  27. #27
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Why do they have to be Delta?
    Talented and hard working

    Lot's of Love, maybe also ideal love.

  28. #28
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No offense, but stop defending typings solely by equalizing others' input. It's a waste of time and becomes annoying on here. Obviously something like dreamy lyrics favors INFp or ENFj over others, though if there's any twist on that comment or anything you'd like to say about Lennon that defends the typing ENTp, go right ahead. I just think ENTp fits well, I'm not here to play around though.

  29. #29
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    All I did was state my opinion.

    I think most were SLI types.

  30. #30
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Not talking to you, sugar diamond.

  31. #31
    Restricted user
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,078
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:18 AM.

  32. #32
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Talented and hard working

    Lot's of Love, maybe also ideal love.
    Gotcha. So no reason at all.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  33. #33
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Gotcha. So no reason at all.
    I'll give an update when I watch a few interviews.

  34. #34
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,337
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Logos is at the edge of his seat, eagerly waiting for your return.

  35. #35
    Dionysius's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lennon is ILE-Ti
    Paul is SEI-xx
    Harrison is LII-Ne
    Ringo is Alpha SF

    They're all alpha.

  36. #36
    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    2,574
    Mentioned
    153 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lennon - ILE E6
    McCartney - SEI E3
    Harrison - LII E9
    Starr - SEI E9

  37. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,489
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Seems like a lot of effort to type 4 people

    I don't have any qualms with The McCartney being SEE - clear as day

  38. #38
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @mu4 persuaded me that Paul is probably SEE, @Radio probably inadvertently made me think George was EII (I think I thought IEI for ages). I keep thinking John was IEI but ILE may well be correct. Ringo as SEI, sure.

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,178
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    @mu4 persuaded me that Paul is probably SEE, @Radio probably inadvertently made me think George was EII (I think I thought IEI for ages). I keep thinking John was IEI but ILE LIE may well be correct. Ringo as SEI, sure.
    Paul SEE, George EII, John LIE, and Ringo SEI


  40. #40
    Contra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    TIM
    ILI-Ni
    Posts
    1,405
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just to throw my vote in there:

    McCartney- SEI.

    Harrison- LII

    Lennon- ILE

    Ringo Starr- SEI

    McCartney and Lennon are the most clear in my opinion.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •