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Thread: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

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    Default Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    i have a new co-worker. she has 3 levels:

    1. she compliments you endlessly and how kind, wonderful and generous you are - just before you dumps work on you. your so great - do this for me. later complaining it wasn't good enough.

    2. the dumb blond mode, where she become dumber then dirt so you can show her how to do it.

    3. spolied child mode, where if she doesn't get her way, she yells, screams, and goes to the nearest manager to tell on you - because you were mean to her in some way.

    i'm trying to figure out her type, or if she's just a typical. she has no content, she's very superficial, has a mirror everywhere, and is photographed everywhere. she dresses nice - but a little over the top for a workplace outfit (really low cut, or see through). always asking for stuff, and once she knows that you supply, she leeches everything from you.

    she is definitly an E - she shows no signs of wanting to be alone. i see no intuition at all from her. she's always spouting rules, many that don't exist, and when i got into an arguement, she simply ended it by yelling - i am right - over and over. she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker. and i'm not sure about the P or J.

    any ideas? i'm trying to get around her now...

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    Not ESFj.

    She seems irrational, so I'd guess ESFp or ISFp.

    ISFps appear extroverted, so forget about the E/I thing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Not ESFj.

    She seems irrational, so I'd guess ESFp or ISFp.

    ISFps appear extroverted, so forget about the E/I thing.
    I think ESFp:

    - Spouting rules --> Se

    - Ending arguments with "I am right"--> Se

    - Disadained by Mike (which is INTj) --> Points towards conflicting
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I don't know if that's enough information to determine her socionics type. However, her Oldham personality style seems rather self-evident:

    "Women are angry and hostile, but unable to express these feelings directly. They manipulate others into attacking them and then revel in complaining about how others mistreat them. They are excessively demanding, dependent, and in need of attention and affection. Usually present with marital difficulties, family problems, and sexual dysfunctions.

    These women are particularly adept at enraging others (even professionals) and deny their involvement in the process. They are demanding, manipulative, hostile, and passive-aggressive, yet they are submissive, yielding, and over-identify with the traditional feminine role.

    Look for a history of early sexualization, sexual abuse, or physical abuse."

    http://www.ptypes.com/self-sacrificing.html

    Does that describe her by any chance?

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    @FDG: yeah, I agree with that, but ISFps have as Personal Knowledge, and they also use it.

    The sensitivity shown in item 3 and the apparent preocupation with aesthetics suggest ISFp.

    So I think she can be either.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    esfp

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempus
    I don't know if that's enough information to determine her socionics type. However, her Oldham personality style seems rather self-evident:

    "Women are angry and hostile, but unable to express these feelings directly. They manipulate others into attacking them and then revel in complaining about how others mistreat them. They are excessively demanding, dependent, and in need of attention and affection. Usually present with marital difficulties, family problems, and sexual dysfunctions.

    These women are particularly adept at enraging others (even professionals) and deny their involvement in the process. They are demanding, manipulative, hostile, and passive-aggressive, yet they are submissive, yielding, and over-identify with the traditional feminine role.

    Look for a history of early sexualization, sexual abuse, or physical abuse."

    http://www.ptypes.com/self-sacrificing.html

    Does that describe her by any chance?
    that nails it pretty close, i know she's single, having kids in college - looking for the one. but whoever the unlucky soul is, he better be a whipping boy with a lot of money. she's already ordering what she want's me to bring her on a vacation. she want's gold, my limit is $3.00 - i already told her the most i'll give her is a rock painted gold. though i probably don't have gold, it would probably be black, and it probably won't be a real rock either.

    but otherwise, the match is pretty close. on the one hand she is a kissy-be-my-friend type. and on the other, a real evil half (not sure how far she would go)

    ideally i think she's mostly mad because i spoke badly of her in front of her gossipy friends. but i think it's best to tell them, and have them tell her. but where it's going now, i don't want to be near her...

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    6w5 sx
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    sloan - rcuei

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    I think they are saying esfp because of the frequent alterations of personality to the situation. ESFjs more often say what they think even if it is unpopular and do not adjust "who they are" to the situation.

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    That was a big factor for me to reject ESFj, indeed.

    Also I've never seen the ESFj women I know do the "spoiled child mode" mike described.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    i agree and i think it is sad also. i could also see an enfj acting in such a manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Also I've never seen the ESFj women I know do the "spoiled child mode" mike described.
    I have. I've not seen it in the way described above exactly but in a similar enough fashion.

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    probably just a very dim-witted esfj.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    enfjs (the ones i know at least) do it pretty often really.
    can you be an N - without any obvious forms of intuition?

    this is all in an effort to really understand the types, since i need examples and not shapes. i called it a J because it's like she want's a judgement, to have the last word in, etc, by telling an authority. the one she told giggled before talking to me, as she see's this as ridiculous as i do. but if the manager doesn't say something, then this co-worker would probably take it a step higher.

    the really weird part is, she will beg for almost anything. but when i give her something without asking - she went berserk.

    is there one type that is the most selfish? i may just be classifying everyone wrong....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i called it a J because it's like she want's a judgement, to have the last word in, etc, by telling an authority.
    This can also be viewed as "not letting others push you around" and exerting authority over others or getting what is in your best interests to happen. I will not go into semantics as I was not giving an opinion just replying to implied's comment.

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    I'm fairly certain she's either ESFj or ENFj. Representatives of Fe types, when not viewed in the most favorable light, seem to have an obtrusive quality about them making them appear either attention-starved or confrontational and I think this woman demonstrates this pretty well.
    Lyricist

    "Supposing the entity of the poet to be represented by the number 10, it is certain that a chemist, on analyzing it, would find it to be composed of one part interest and nine parts vanity." (Victor Hugo)

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    not enfj.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by xiuxiu
    not enfj.
    i agree, i don't see N in her. she seems to have rules coming out of the wazoo. even temporary ones that we don't use anymore. and too pigheaded to comtemplate what's going on currently.

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    edit
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker
    i agree, i don't see N in her. she seems to have rules coming out of the wazoo. even temporary ones that we don't use anymore. and too pigheaded to comtemplate what's going on currently.
    Ah, typing is FUN, isn't it?? You will have to look at the whole person and not just at those things that annoy you. People will just suggest a type they dislike...

    Sorry, I'm sure this comment is rather dull. I'm just - a feeler....
    i'd say it is without much effort that one could see the whole of a person like this. she is unabashed.
    lol

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker
    i agree, i don't see N in her. she seems to have rules coming out of the wazoo. even temporary ones that we don't use anymore. and too pigheaded to comtemplate what's going on currently.
    Ah, typing is FUN, isn't it?? You will have to look at the whole person and not just at those things that annoy you. People will just suggest a type they dislike...

    Sorry, I'm sure this comment is rather dull. I'm just - a feeler....
    i don't really dislike any one type. mostly - she has no depth. i know she likes expensive things, is a gold digger, and fashionable. her clothes, nails, etc all match in some way. and she's constantly cleaning her area, sometimes 3-4 times a day. everything has a fun shape - i have rectangle sticky notes, her's are hearts. i have a box for my tools, she has a caddy. and of course a huge mirror.

    for a while she took a liking to some new people, always sitting with them, pals overnight. but lately they don't seem to hang out with her. i'm not sure if they picked up on her selfish attitudes or what.

    mostly typing is hard - because descriptions don't cover a real personality. and i can only go with what i know about myself. my feelings i keep private, but my thoughts are aloud - i assume it's the opposite for a feeler. i just don't have enough experience with the whole typing thing - i want her to be my ginny pig (i know it's spelled wrong, but it's too late at night to care).

    she want's to be a leader - but is terrible at what she does. she has a non-chalant (sp) attitude, a little too care free.

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i have a new co-worker. she has 3 levels:

    1. she compliments you endlessly and how kind, wonderful and generous you are - just before you dumps work on you. your so great - do this for me. later complaining it wasn't good enough.

    2. the dumb blond mode, where she become dumber then dirt so you can show her how to do it.

    3. spolied child mode, where if she doesn't get her way, she yells, screams, and goes to the nearest manager to tell on you - because you were mean to her in some way.

    i'm trying to figure out her type, or if she's just a typical. she has no content, she's very superficial, has a mirror everywhere, and is photographed everywhere. she dresses nice - but a little over the top for a workplace outfit (really low cut, or see through). always asking for stuff, and once she knows that you supply, she leeches everything from you.

    she is definitly an E - she shows no signs of wanting to be alone. i see no intuition at all from her. she's always spouting rules, many that don't exist, and when i got into an arguement, she simply ended it by yelling - i am right - over and over. she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker. and i'm not sure about the P or J.

    any ideas? i'm trying to get around her now...

    She's "a bitch that needs and wants to be put in her place", but she may not really know it.

    I'd go with E__p, but I really know nothing about types.


    PS: ^ said in vernacular

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i have a new co-worker. she has 3 levels:

    1. she compliments you endlessly and how kind, wonderful and generous you are - just before you dumps work on you. your so great - do this for me. later complaining it wasn't good enough.

    2. the dumb blond mode, where she become dumber then dirt so you can show her how to do it.

    3. spolied child mode, where if she doesn't get her way, she yells, screams, and goes to the nearest manager to tell on you - because you were mean to her in some way.

    i'm trying to figure out her type, or if she's just a typical. she has no content, she's very superficial, has a mirror everywhere, and is photographed everywhere. she dresses nice - but a little over the top for a workplace outfit (really low cut, or see through). always asking for stuff, and once she knows that you supply, she leeches everything from you.

    she is definitly an E - she shows no signs of wanting to be alone. i see no intuition at all from her. she's always spouting rules, many that don't exist, and when i got into an arguement, she simply ended it by yelling - i am right - over and over. she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker. and i'm not sure about the P or J.

    any ideas? i'm trying to get around her now...
    not esfj. i don't think esfjs have enough Se to dump work unfairly on people, certainly not in such a brazen way. nor do esfjs act like spoiled brats. i think they tend to enjoy preserving harmonious relationships around them, and feel bad when they have to hurt people's feelings, sometimes to the point that they would not stick up for themselves.

    this description, however, sounds exactly like one of my colleagues in another department. right down to running to her manager to tell on me, even though to my face she would say nothing at all about any issues she has with me. and if i'm intj, this person cannot possibly be my dual esfj.

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    Default Re: Spoiled Rotten - ESFJ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ
    i have a new co-worker. she has 3 levels:

    1. she compliments you endlessly and how kind, wonderful and generous you are - just before you dumps work on you. your so great - do this for me. later complaining it wasn't good enough.

    2. the dumb blond mode, where she become dumber then dirt so you can show her how to do it.

    3. spolied child mode, where if she doesn't get her way, she yells, screams, and goes to the nearest manager to tell on you - because you were mean to her in some way.

    i'm trying to figure out her type, or if she's just a typical. she has no content, she's very superficial, has a mirror everywhere, and is photographed everywhere. she dresses nice - but a little over the top for a workplace outfit (really low cut, or see through). always asking for stuff, and once she knows that you supply, she leeches everything from you.

    she is definitly an E - she shows no signs of wanting to be alone. i see no intuition at all from her. she's always spouting rules, many that don't exist, and when i got into an arguement, she simply ended it by yelling - i am right - over and over. she's fairly dull, so i don't see her as a thinker. and i'm not sure about the P or J.

    any ideas? i'm trying to get around her now...
    not esfj. i don't think esfjs have enough Se to dump work unfairly on people, certainly not in such a brazen way. nor do esfjs act like spoiled brats. i think they tend to enjoy preserving harmonious relationships around them, and feel bad when they have to hurt people's feelings, sometimes to the point that they would not stick up for themselves.

    this description, however, sounds exactly like one of my colleagues in another department. right down to running to her manager to tell on me, even though to my face she would say nothing at all about any issues she has with me. and if i'm intj, this person cannot possibly be my dual esfj.
    this is why it's confusing me. when under stress, like i have been - i blurt out exactly what i'm thinking - but almost in a bickering tone. it's really draining me of my reserves. i'm not worried if she runs to a manager though - she doesn't have a leg to stand on, no real evidence of anything. i'm just hoping she's not going to claim harrassment or anything, not sure if she would go that low.

    i really can't see her as an I though. she doesn't seem to contemplate anything, she had no idea why i would rather be alone then with people. she's constantly going out to the gym, parties, dancing etc. she wears those dumb looking clothes (a mostly female populace), doesn't need to see her floppy wrinkled tummy hanging out. i know i don't.

    if S means to stick to established rules - then i would definitly stick her there.

    the T or F - it's hard to tell. from my understanding hitler was an F - as F doesn't always mean to be kind, only to think with one's feelings and not thought. she's really into material possesions. wearing anything that glitters. she once had shapes drawn onto her chest - i asked if they were arrows, i don't know what they were.

    and the P J thing. not sure. while the J could represent getting even, having the final word - it's also been said that J is responsible for having a solid work ethic. get it done, be good at it, let it be right. and while her desk is wonderfully clean. her work sucks, common mistakes, looks terrible. she's more carefree, so a P (which i'm still not sure about), seems to fit.

    i suppose she could be one of those Atypical people. where there are different personalities within a type.

    i mostly want to plan my next move, and while she's is pretty easy to read, i want to see how far she might go and start thinking about that.

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    mike, in socionics, unlike MBTI, it's not helpful to type someone with either E or I, or J or P, etc. In fact, it may be for confusing than anything else. Especially the J/P thing.

    I think she's almost certainly an XSFx type, almost certainly not ISFj. She could be ESFp, ISFp (as I said, ISFps may be socially outgoing), ESFj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Most of the things you mention point strongly towards your co-worker being an ESFJ type, though some examples you give sound more like really strong Se behaviour to me, and leave the option open to ESFp.

    Through a few examples it's always difficult to type someone of course, and these are your observations - meaning you write down situation sketches that strike you the most, while you might miss information that seems irrelevant to you but perhaps is not.

    Still, I feel your co-worker is most likely ESFj. This is supposedly your dual but my question to you is - how sure are you to be INTj? Because if you typed yourself using MBTI instead of socionics for instance, you might not be INTj at all. Worst case scenario is that you'd be INTp, meaning you and your co worker would have a conflicting relationship. Just a thought...
    ENFp

    Wheeeee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by voot
    Most of the things you mention point strongly towards your co-worker being an ESFJ type, though some examples you give sound more like really strong Se behaviour to me, and leave the option open to ESFp.

    Through a few examples it's always difficult to type someone of course, and these are your observations - meaning you write down situation sketches that strike you the most, while you might miss information that seems irrelevant to you but perhaps is not.

    Still, I feel your co-worker is most likely ESFj. This is supposedly your dual but my question to you is - how sure are you to be INTj? Because if you typed yourself using MBTI instead of socionics for instance, you might not be INFj at all. Worst case scenario is that you'd be INFp, meaning you and your co worker would have a conflicting relationship. Just a thought...
    i have yet to take a good socionics test. the last one was 300 questions, and i don't think i answered them properly. there were also conflicting answers, nothing solid.

    all the tests online show INTJ, and for the most part the description fits. however some of them vary depending on question. the last one i took was a yes no test - in which my IN was strong, and the TJ were close to 50%. other times my I and J are strong, and the NT are close to 50%. i might be a mixed breed. but it all depends on the questions. i'd like to find an accurate test.

    depending on situation i respond as an ISTJ, but usually i'm more INTJ. i'm not an E by both descriptions. and i don't know the difference between J or P on the socion side, but if i have a thought in my head - i have to get it down NOW NOW NOW, or it will eat me up inside. and each detail has to be addressed before i start something. on the plus side, from the outside observer it makes me look like a savant or something, because i don't have to stop and think. everything has been thought out already, i've done it 900 times in my head, i'm just doing what i've already done.

    do you know of a good socionics test? i know one is still being tweaked, and i don't like answering tons of questions. they all look the same after a while. it becomes a sort of water torture thing with me.

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    I just noticed I made a mistake in what I wrote, INFj and INFp should've been INTj and INTp. Edited post, hope it makes more sense now

    I'm rather new to socionics myself, and in my opinion both MBTI and socionics are valuable typology systems but don't try to mix them or make conversions between the types for they don't always match - especially for introvert types.

    I guess http://socion.info/cgi-bin/index.cgi?loc=test might be a good test, but it's rather long aswell - can't help you with any short tests sorry.
    ENFp

    Wheeeee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by voot
    I just noticed I made a mistake in what I wrote, INFj and INFp should've been INTj and INTp. Edited post, hope it makes more sense now

    I'm rather new to socionics myself, and in my opinion both MBTI and socionics are valuable typology systems but don't try to mix them or make conversions between the types for they don't always match - especially for introvert types.

    I guess http://socion.info/cgi-bin/index.cgi?loc=test might be a good test, but it's rather long aswell - can't help you with any short tests sorry.
    i took the test, which i'm more confused then before:

    http://socion.info/cgi-bin/index.cgi...ost&link=short

    first part:
    F ( Ne ) = -225
    F ( Ni ) = -105
    F ( Se ) = -285
    F ( Si ) = -315
    F ( Te ) = -250
    F ( Ti ) = -255
    F ( Fe ) = -350
    F ( Fi ) = -325

    Ne vs Si = -540
    Ni vs Se = -390
    Te vs Fi = -575
    Ti vs Fe = -605





    Plausible Types


    INTp logical subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    ENTp intuitive subtype
    INTj intuitive subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    INTp logical subtype


    Ethics vs Logic
    Sensing vs Intuition

    after clicking:
    B- ( Ne ) = 125
    A+ ( Ni ) = 245
    C- ( Se ) = 65
    D ( Si ) = 35
    C+ ( Te ) = 100
    C ( Ti ) = 95
    F ( Fe ) = 0
    D ( Fi ) = 25

    Ne vs Si = 160
    Ni vs Se = 310
    Te vs Fi = 125
    Ti vs Fe = 95





    Plausible Types


    INTp logical subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    ENTp intuitive subtype
    INTj intuitive subtype
    ENTj logical subtype
    INTp logical subtype


    Ethics vs Logic
    Sensing vs Intuition

  31. #31

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    why do you guys think duality implies that you will LIKE the person?!?!?!?!?!?!

    *tears out his hair*

    Charles Manson is SOMEONES dual too does that mean those who don't get along with him aren't really xxxx? Some people are just assholes!!! Sometimes the differences are too great to be overcome without drastic reasons for the obstacles to be overcome!!!!

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    why do you guys think duality implies that you will LIKE the person?!?!?!?!?!?!

    *tears out his hair*

    Charles Manson is SOMEONES dual too does that mean those who don't get along with him aren't really xxxx? Some people are just assholes!!! Sometimes the differences are too great to be overcome without drastic reasons for the obstacles to be overcome!!!!
    I pretty much like all people, unless they're narrow minded or are too convinced they own the thruth. So why wouldn't I like my dual?

    I like to think of obstacles as challenges that are opportunities for growth in both partners. And - correct me if I'm wrong - but somehow I feel duality isn't meant to be an easy road :wink:
    ENFp

    Wheeeee!

  33. #33
    Creepy-pokeball

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    why do you guys think duality implies that you will LIKE the person?!?!?!?!?!?!

    *tears out his hair*

    Charles Manson is SOMEONES dual too does that mean those who don't get along with him aren't really xxxx? Some people are just assholes!!! Sometimes the differences are too great to be overcome without drastic reasons for the obstacles to be overcome!!!!
    But Charlie Manson is like totally hawt! Like, yo mon, hawt, totally *giggle* That's hawwwwwwwt.

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