Seems like every dictator is Beta. I challenge someone to come up with a non-Beta dictator.
For extra points, think of a non-Ni/Se dictator (I'd be really interested to see what people come up with for this one).
Non-Beta Dictators?
Seems like every dictator is Beta. I challenge someone to come up with a non-Beta dictator.
For extra points, think of a non-Ni/Se dictator (I'd be really interested to see what people come up with for this one).
Was was the name of that SLE-looking SLI guy Expat used to talk about?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
What types do you think they were?
Such as...?A number of non-betas who inherited kingdoms and empires and ruled with an iron fist cause that was how to do it back then.
Fidel Castro. ESFj(according to Talanov).
From what I know of Castro, I sincerely doubt it.
How about the US government? Seems very Delta to me, which, of course, means that they need to get out of my quadra.
But, of course, by "dictator", I'm sure you mean "the head of some coercive organization who didn't have to ask the rest of the organization permission before he did something".
I'll agree with jxrtes on Augustus, I think (though my knowledge of him is a bit limited).
Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson
Yeah, I think most would agree with that.
Okay, but I mean dictatorship in the general sense of the term.Such as 3/4 of anyone who's ever inherited a kingdom or an empire from their parents, pending the level of veracity of the equal distribution assumption. A kingdom is a sort of dictatorship depending on who you ask.
Essentially, yes. Although, ****** initially used legit means. It was only when he gained power that he began to close off the very entity/entities that secured him power in the first place.
Any sort of government cannot be morally, and only maintains it's power through coercive means, which is "illegitimate" if you want to colloquially use "legitimate" as "with correctness", rather than "according to law", which is entirely arbitrary.
Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson
What about the evolution of intersubjective thought about the state - it wasn't a case of "yesterday we were free, and now the state has stepped in and taken our freedom by force". There are social contracts; people agree to exchanges, and those who cannot protect themselves offer something in return for protection.
Fair point. I s'pose the question is too open-ended.
I went through a list of 34 worst dictators in the sense that Ezra means, and couldn't find any that I could make strong case of not being beta.
But here's some I'm slightly suspicious about:
Fracois Duvalier, although he might be LSI
Enver Hoxha
Antonio de Oliveira Salazar
I might have just as well had typed the entire list though.
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
franco isfp?
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
If so, I'm Donald Duck.
ISFj , no doubt.
Basehe made good deals with the American government, in spite of the background. Conservative views, supported religion.
Creativeask the old Spanish people.
Intertype relations: in WWII, Spain and Germany were about to make an alliance, but all this fell apart when ****** (ENTp) met Franco (ISFj). All the Spaniards know that ****** said Franco was "unpleasant" and he didn't want to see him again.
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
what are you interpreting as cre-Se?If so, I'm Donald Duck.
ISFj , no doubt.
Base
Creative
Intertype relations: in WWII, Spain and Germany were about to make an alliance, but all this fell apart when ****** (ENTp) met Franco (ISFj). All the Spaniards know that ****** said Franco was "unpleasant" and he didn't want to see him again.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
x
To me, creative
Por cierto, no sé si estás al tanto de lo que pasa por aquí por la península ibérica o si te importa o no. Hace unos meses echaron por la tele este documental sobre una hipotética victoria de la república en la guerra civil. Si te gusta culturizarte...
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Why does ezra keep on putting words in italian/spanish/portuguese in his avatar?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
because he thinks he is al capone/mussolini/other "gangster" or "criminal" stereotype of italian descent.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
LOL!
(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)
Yeah, that's what is really going on. Who's gonna think Ezra is learning a second language, or he is just trying to be original?
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
well, "yo quiero taco bell," or putting an -ismo! on the end of a word hardly counts as "learning spanish."
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I think he's being silly
The end is nigh
Oh well of course, the state emerged naturally.
like religion and AIDs.
Just because it came about over time doesn't make it desirable.
and I've made the case before that the state was carried with us from our pre-human days.
The end is nigh
¡Por algo se empieza, María!
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I'll try and be serious here. You actually believe ****** is an ILE?
I remember seeing some amusing Italian fascist-era propaganda posters at college once; it's a kind of tribute to that. Obviously the idea of capitalist and terrorist propaganda is a bit odd, but it's following in line with the rest. Plus, it's more interesting than just having "capitalism", "communism" etc.
But you know you are a complete moron for celebrating this. So many people died due to ideological idiocy during the fascist period.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Actually, there was a very long old thread in this site which described thoroughly ******'s personality. Look for it. I think some user called "curious soul" wrote it. After reading it, it was clear to me that he was ILE.
But I think old threads were lost after some problems in the site...
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
i am basically sold on ****** as Ni ENFj 6w5 so/sx
The end is nigh
Rick made quite a good argument for ENFj (as I recall, he left it half-finished as ExFj, but it was easy to guess ENFj>ESFj).
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Whatever type ****** was, he shouldn't be supplied as a typical example of any type, IMO. Pathological committers of genocide just don't qualify for such treatment.
Last edited by krieger; 03-08-2009 at 09:13 PM.
Are there any INFp dictators?
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRING...
I don't care for that. I've gained enough insight into his character through reading about him, and it's quite clear that he's not an ILE. You're the first person I've encountered who has claimed ****** to be an ILE, and I have little intellectual respect for this "curious soul" character.
Some cite Robert Mugabe as an IEI.
While some dictators worked methodically for much of their life to attain the position, others kind of "stumbled" into becoming dictators, or were more or less appointed by others.
Among those accidental dictators I'd put Oliver Cromwell, who I guess-type as a gamma.
Also, many of the old Eastern European Communist dictators seem to have been put in place by the Russian Communist Party. The selection process I guess would probably not favor Betas more than Communist minions from other quadras.
Greetings, ragnar
ILI knowledge-seeker
Osama bin laden is INFp
The end is nigh
yeah, that goes over as well as a holocaust joke.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Yeah i doubt he's supporting those regimes.
I think its kinda like a fucking joke.
The end is nigh
It's not right to joke about the holocaust. I lost a grandfather during it.
He fell off a guard tower.
Bingo.
there seems to be a lot of misconception about this very thing on the forum. I dont see what beta in itself has to do with dictatorship.
ENTP
After having read about him in Rommel's biography, I'm thinking 3w4. He's one or the other though.
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