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Thread: Deltas moralizing and inducing guilt

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    Default Deltas moralizing and inducing guilt

    One more small rant about deltas before I hit the hay (Jeesh I'm tired)

    At first I was greatly addicted to Deltas' um kind of 'Moralistic healing' card. They claimed to want to heal me to fix me up to be a productive member of society. Hey I'm not mocking the cliche, it's something we all want. Their intentions are pure, like vanilla cane- I could almost smell it. And I wanted it so badly. To just be cleansed by a fire so pure. But it was too pure, too wholesome it would destroy me.

    But then they made me feel so guilty. For realizing my own faults all too clealry and making me feel nervous and uptight and aw shucks about the least little bit self-indulgence I got myself into. It's like, their Fi was too.. too much of a white laser beam thrusting inside my chest. They wouldn't let me be a whore when I needed to be, wouldn't let me slip up and just let me make my own mistakes. I agreed with them in principal but it was like they were so disconnected from real trial and error all their 'wise sayings' and craps began to feel like harsh judgements I couldn't fight. I was whatever they thought I am...

    They were nagging and prodding like nosey busybody moms that want you to do 'the right thing.' At the time it didnt' feel so bad like they could really help but looking back, they were just... overly moralistic and too judgemental with me. Like it's true, they represented everything I wish I could be but I couldn't be that, I am just a regular earthly-driven ol' smelly Beta that likes the smell of feet- they tried to inspire and aspire me to be more. But I just felt left out. I want somebody to appreciate my darkness, what's so hard about understanding that? I need somebody to love my demon, my dark side. No offense but most interaction with deltas in real life feel like they're kind of, like well I'm watching a preachy after school special. I need to learn change and grow but I just ugggaahhghaghghhghgaghaghhgghghghgh.

    Don't take this the wrong way. IT's just. Ugh.

  2. #2
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    Interquadra fights <3

    It's cool. I don't think most Deltas view their interactions this way at all, but it's certainly interesting to note that Aristocratic flavour... "Deltas" over "This one IEE girl". We still love you, B. And also your take. That too.

    Now get back to scrubbing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsandDoves
    I want somebody to appreciate my darkness, what's so hard about understanding that?
    Absolutely nothing. I don't give the time of day to people who can't acknowledge the full breadth of human nature or condemn people who do. I think if society was a bit more psychologically accepting of these various facets of our core nature, there would be a lot less strenuous restraint which ultimately hampers our own fulfillment in expression and interaction.
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    Yeah... I don't think that this has got much to do with Deltas per se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    At first I was greatly addicted to Deltas' um kind of 'Moralistic healing' card.
    At first I was addicted to Beta's abusive hysterical-take-all-give-nothing-back kind of social interaction. But in 2006 I went into therapy, kicked all the wining INFp bitches out of my life and in the past three years became a master of keeping Betas at an appropriate distance (which is: out of my life).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
    Yeah... I don't think that this has got much to do with Deltas per se.
    I don't know. IME it has been the deltas (ones who are "important parts" of communities) who promulgate these sentiments the most profusely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    One more small rant about deltas before I hit the hay (Jeesh I'm tired)


    They were nagging and prodding like nosey busybody moms that want you to do 'the right thing.' At the time it didnt' feel so bad like they could really help but looking back, they were just... overly moralistic and too judgemental with me. Like it's true, they represented everything I wish I could be but I couldn't be that, I am just a regular earthly-driven ol' smelly Beta that likes the smell of feet- they tried to inspire and aspire me to be more. But I just felt left out. I want somebody to appreciate my darkness, what's so hard about understanding that? I need somebody to love my demon, my dark side. No offense but most interaction with deltas in real life feel like they're kind of, like well I'm watching a preachy after school special. I need to learn change and grow but I just ugggaahhghaghghhghgaghaghhgghghghgh.

    Don't take this the wrong way. IT's just. Ugh.
    Hm, I don't relate to this at all. I usually try to understand other people, I even deal with my friend who just cheats on her boyfriend on a regular basis. I do not judge her. I try to help her in a way, that's true. But I understand that there are more colors than black and white.
    I've got my own moral code myself but I am aware of the fact that a day may come in which I break my rules. I happened a few times so that may be the reason why I do not judge. It used to be different though. I think I'm rather patient with people. My ex ESTp boyfriend even used to say that I have this kind of wonderful patience.
    I do not like when people hurt others and that's all. So following this, I'd just make sure that my friend's boyfriend doesn't know that she cheats on him and maybe help her deal with this after some time (she wants it herself). Things can be pretty complicated sometimes. As for the rest, I do not judge too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    I don't think most Deltas view their interactions this way at all
    Buz-ACK-lee.

    If anything, Betas can come off as the preachy, pushy moralizers to me. And Deltas are more like "take your time with it, make some mistakes - it's OK!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
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    Nah Delta's are more moralistic in the way I think of the word.

    Beta's are more outwardly vicious, rigid, and dogmatic, but its in a way that makes me wanna go,

    "Oh you Beta's you're so silly. With your power plays and mystic bullshit. I can see your selfish motivations and you generally make them clear. Thank you for being so straight up."

    Delta's can kinda be control freaks. Like in that Fi judgemental way and they are a bit stubborn. Like,

    "Oh Delta's and your political correctness, I will say what I want around who I want, and I could give less than a shit if you think its wrong. Please stop being so condenscending. Also I noticed that you are using some outdated tools on your wooden folk art. I'd recommend going on the net and looking around because there is alot of neat stuff out there. Cool stuff you can do on the computer in combination with these tools too. Alright, cya tonight at the parish. Oh is she really? Oh wow. Yeah... well what goes around comes around. Yeah I know. Yep. Uh huh. Yeah, and I'd add that I never really liked her. I remember saying to George, that that kind of single parenting just doesn't cut it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yes. Yes. No, nah, I'll be too busy working out and beating my wife."
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Absolutely nothing. I don't give the time of day to people who can't acknowledge the full breadth of human nature or condemn people who do.
    There's enough irony in this post to equal 16oz of a T bone steak!

    And I really don't see where you guys come up with us being the "moralistic ones". I'd step over a dying bum. Not that I don't give two shits about dying people, it's that I can only care so much and give so much of my care to such a limited amount of people that I've got to reserve it for family and really really close friends, lest I wind up with a boatload of aquaintances and no true friends.

    And Archon... I'm not politically correct. Ask cracka. (that fucking honkey)

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    Buz-ACK-lee.

    If anything, Betas can come off as the preachy, pushy moralizers to me. And Deltas are more like "take your time with it, make some mistakes - it's OK!"
    This correlates with my experiences as well.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Well even if they said take your time and make some mistakes, and believed that- if I didn't do exactly what they said they would give me the hardest time out of any other quadra.

    Alphas didn't give a fuck, other Betas defended me as much as possible, .... Gammas were too busy ignoring everybody and trying to make money or something.

    I didn't mean to start a huge fight but some healthy competition is nice.

    And I wish people would accept my dark side. But not consume or condone it. I don't want that. I just want it to be accepted and loved. Unconditionally. I do not want to fully embrace it. That would freak me out to much. But I don't want it to be purged. I don't want to fight it.

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    What do you mean "the hardest time out of any other quadra"? Sorry to ask you to transmute your Fe into Te, but just try. For me <3

    I suppose that's a thing to want to "cure" people's dark sides. It's seen as something mutable, and subsequently, something that can be improved. Block that with , and I see why that can be construed as bible-bashing.

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    i still don't see where this is going

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    And I wish people would accept my dark side. But not consume or condone it. I don't want that. I just want it to be accepted and loved. Unconditionally. I do not want to fully embrace it. That would freak me out to much. But I don't want it to be purged. I don't want to fight it.
    Luke, what dark side, talking about, are you, hmm? Yes, hmmm.

    Are you saying that people should accept and love you when your acting like and ass and screwing people over or is it something different? Heck, I never have talks in real life about the Dark Side, oh the internets. Id imagine the preaching part comes only from NF types.
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    I think both deltas and betas can be intolerant and condemning.

    I have an ISTp pal who works at a bar. He tells me that his normal state is to watch for troublemakers. He literally scans every person entering with the eye of "should I try to get rid of that one?" And the reasons he thinks up are usually about "he made too much noise", "she was too mobile", "he dropped a glass". Basically, he doesn't wait for real trouble, he kicks potential troublemakers out way before that.

    OTOH I have an INFp... acquaintance... who watches for any sign of ... "selfishness" as in attempting to gain any kind of profit to one's bank account or to one's close ones. He thinks everything should be free for everyone and he attacks anyone suggesting that someone actually had to do some work to get by in life or god forbid actually works for a corporation. He's a county council member and a second or third generation intellectual anarcho-communist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    Well even if they said take your time and make some mistakes, and believed that- if I didn't do exactly what they said they would give me the hardest time out of any other quadra.
    We look at it in terms of you wanting us to fix your problem. We want to help, so we try to find a solution for you. If you knock back our advice, we react badly because why else were you bitching and moaning about the problem to us in the first place?

    An actual example of what happened to give you this opinion would probably go a long way in helping us to understand and explain the reaction better.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    And I wish people would accept my dark side. But not consume or condone it. I don't want that. I just want it to be accepted and loved. Unconditionally. I do not want to fully embrace it. That would freak me out to much. But I don't want it to be purged. I don't want to fight it.
    Well that's rather inconsistent.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Oh I get the dark side thing, oh do I get it. This is exactly why I cannot stand my parents. If I have not achieved by their standards, I am simply "unacceptable". This is particularly true of my ILI father.

    HELLO!!

    People have different opinions! Can we just both be correct for what is in our own lives and agree to disagree?! I don't like your way of life either, but I don't try to change you to fit. So fuck you for trying to do that to me. And may I add, you do one thing, and yet if I did this back to you, you would be offended. I get it, you're the pack leader, I am your loyal follower. You hypocritical scumbag. Let me be.

    Perhaps this is just a generalised feeling each of us tends to get towards our opposing quadra?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    Oh I get the dark side thing, oh do I get it. This is exactly why I cannot stand my parents. If I have not achieved by their standards, I am simply "unacceptable". This is particularly true of my ILI father.

    HELLO!!

    People have different opinions! Can we just both be correct for what is in our own lives and agree to disagree?! I don't like your way of life either, but I don't try to change you to fit. So fuck you for trying to do that to me. And may I add, you do one thing, and yet if I did this back to you, you would be offended. I get it, you're the pack leader, I am your loyal follower. You hypocritical scumbag. Let me be.

    Perhaps this is just a generalised feeling each of us tends to get towards our opposing quadra?
    Maybe, but I just trained my parents. It was especially my mother who couldn't understand me e.g. why I am not learning more. She always set herself as an example . I wasn't a bad student anyway but she just wanted me to be "the best".
    My father wouldn't let me go out for no reason (he didn't want me to get drunk and stuff).
    That's what parents normally do. And mine are different with my younger sister - people change their attitudes when they get older. I think it's not necessarily quadra related, there are more things like generation gap and different values (which IS a quadra thing, but not only).
    I think it's a good idea to let people live their own lives. But I can understand that when somebody wants you to help them, you do your best to do that and they still don't listen to you you can get pissed. It's like you waste your energy.
    Easier said than done. It's easier to accept your friends but I know that it's a problem for the majority of people to accept their children if they are not "as they would like them to be" and the same problem might occur with partners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iAnnAu View Post
    Buz-ACK-lee.

    If anything, Betas can come off as the preachy, pushy moralizers to me. And Deltas are more like "take your time with it, make some mistakes - it's OK!"
    Oh come on... anyone can be pushy, and anyone can be patient. I've seen both in the same types. Heck even my ENTp brother can be a pushy moralizer lol.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes View Post
    I think both deltas and betas can be intolerant and condemning.

    I have an ISTp pal who works at a bar. He tells me that his normal state is to watch for troublemakers. He literally scans every person entering with the eye of "should I try to get rid of that one?" And the reasons he thinks up are usually about "he made too much noise", "she was too mobile", "he dropped a glass". Basically, he doesn't wait for real trouble, he kicks potential troublemakers out way before that.

    OTOH I have an INFp... acquaintance... who watches for any sign of ... "selfishness" as in attempting to gain any kind of profit to one's bank account or to one's close ones. He thinks everything should be free for everyone and he attacks anyone suggesting that someone actually had to do some work to get by in life or god forbid actually works for a corporation. He's a county council member and a second or third generation intellectual anarcho-communist.
    I agree with this. Sometimes I can be a total asshole. Stubborn, unyielding, narrow minded. Inflexible. Resistant.

    Although a handful of people like me all the same when i'm like that. Other delta's usually.

    Sometimes I have such a low opinion of humanity and other human beings in general that I've found myself wondering..is it me or everyone else? I've often came to the conclusion it's everyone else.

    Although, i've became smarter at playing the game, something an ESTj told me to do a long time ago. Then I was resistant to it but i've wisened up. I play it to an extent.

    Although as a contrast I can be extremely tolerant and flexible and understanding. I've only ever known one person who's had me figured out, or at least she claimed this was the case.

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    FTR, I don't have a problem with anyone on the forum specifically. I was just commenting on the way people tend to come across to me.

    I am certainly guilty of sometimes trying to jump in and fix the problem rather than just be sympathetic. AND I'm getting that very behavior dished out to me in spades right now dating an LSE ... I have on a couple of occasions wanted to tell him to shut up and just let me vent, and then caught myself with the self-awareness that if roles were reversed I'd probably be doing the same thing he is!
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
    We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.
    SLI

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    Quote Originally Posted by ephemeros View Post
    why was you LII father discontent of you? he's not your opposite quadra and should be understanding.
    Answer: father is ILI, not LII.

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    what the fuck is this

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    One more small rant about deltas before I hit the hay (Jeesh I'm tired)

    At first I was greatly addicted to Deltas' um kind of 'Moralistic healing' card. They claimed to want to heal me to fix me up to be a productive member of society. Hey I'm not mocking the cliche, it's something we all want. Their intentions are pure, like vanilla cane- I could almost smell it. And I wanted it so badly. To just be cleansed by a fire so pure. But it was too pure, too wholesome it would destroy me.

    But then they made me feel so guilty. For realizing my own faults all too clealry and making me feel nervous and uptight and aw shucks about the least little bit self-indulgence I got myself into. It's like, their Fi was too.. too much of a white laser beam thrusting inside my chest. They wouldn't let me be a whore when I needed to be, wouldn't let me slip up and just let me make my own mistakes. I agreed with them in principal but it was like they were so disconnected from real trial and error all their 'wise sayings' and craps began to feel like harsh judgements I couldn't fight. I was whatever they thought I am...

    They were nagging and prodding like nosey busybody moms that want you to do 'the right thing.' At the time it didnt' feel so bad like they could really help but looking back, they were just... overly moralistic and too judgemental with me. Like it's true, they represented everything I wish I could be but I couldn't be that, I am just a regular earthly-driven ol' smelly Beta that likes the smell of feet- they tried to inspire and aspire me to be more. But I just felt left out. I want somebody to appreciate my darkness, what's so hard about understanding that? I need somebody to love my demon, my dark side. No offense but most interaction with deltas in real life feel like they're kind of, like well I'm watching a preachy after school special. I need to learn change and grow but I just ugggaahhghaghghhghgaghaghhgghghghgh.

    Don't take this the wrong way. IT's just. Ugh.

    take some responsibility. So its everyones fault but yours, right? No one did anything to you, you gotdamn victim. You made yourself feel that way.

    Grow up.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    You totally misunderstood my post.

    I'm glad I pushed a button in you though.

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    To Deltas, Not all Betas think about Delta this way.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You totally misunderstood my post.

    I'm glad I pushed a button in you though.
    What do you expect?

    You come into the DELTA forum bitching about DELTAS. Then you have the AUDACITY to talk about how judgemental we are.

    What the fuck do you think that post was?

    GAH.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thePirate View Post
    What do you expect?

    You come into the DELTA forum bitching about DELTAS. Then you have the AUDACITY to talk about how judgemental we are.

    What the fuck do you think that post was?

    GAH.
    I think he's just ranting because he wants someone to give him Se over the forum, put him in his place.

    Guess you might even have done that for him (not saying you are Se btw) but he'd probably need it to be forced into him a few times for him to submit or some shit.

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    I suppose Delta can be harsh, but then you also misunderstand us. : )

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    You totally misunderstood my post.

    I'm glad I pushed a button in you though.
    In what way did s/he misunderstand your post? It seemed the Pirate just didn't give the reaction you wanted.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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