Results 1 to 33 of 33

Thread: ISFps, ESFjs and extraverted sensing Se

  1. #1
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ISFps, ESFjs and extraverted sensing Se

    When an Alpha SF has to use Se, what does it look like? How does it feel for them? How do they typically react to Se?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  2. #2
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default




    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  3. #3
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  4. #4
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    they won't use it really.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  5. #5
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I didn't want to bring model x into it.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  6. #6
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamajama View Post
    I didn't want to bring model x into it.
    ahh

    my motives are so clear.

    *note to self... work on subtley*
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  7. #7
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  8. #8
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  9. #9
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  10. #10
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    meh .. I'm derailing my own thread
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  11. #11
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, back on topic... Jem, you're an Alpha SF yourself. How do you react if someone tries to bully you?



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  12. #12
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Well, back on topic... Jem, you're an Alpha SF yourself. How do you react if someone tries to bully you?
    I'm not sure I'm an Alpha SF ... but I tend to immediately feel pretty stubborn about not giving in. I guess it depends. Ideally, I'd just walk away. If I have to stand my ground, I tend to just resist rather than pushing back. If I think the person is not going to give in any time soon, I may let loose with an explosion of Fe to get them off my back. Shock tactics.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  13. #13
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    I'm not sure I'm an Alpha SF ... but I tend to immediately feel pretty stubborn about not giving in. I guess it depends. Ideally, I'd just walk away. If I have to stand my ground, I tend to just resist rather than pushing back. If I think the person is not going to give in any time soon, I may let loose with an explosion of Fe to get them off my back. Shock tactics.
    Well said. I think an ESE might be a little more willing to turn on the bully... but let's see if an ESE responds.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  14. #14
    confused84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    240
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My father is an ESE

    As a child he felt obligated to stick up for those who could stick up for themselves.
    But sadly he lets people walk all over him.

  15. #15
    forgetmenot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by confused84 View Post
    My father is an ESE

    As a child he felt obligated to stick up for those who could stick up for themselves.
    But sadly he lets people walk all over him.
    That's a perfect description of how I behave. I find it really easy to stand up for somebody else's rights, protect them etc and I do it whenever it's needed. It's more difficult for me to defend myself. I don't know, I was born to please people I'd quess .
    Yeah, I had a bit tense situation with my INTj friend when he said he wasn't allowed to say vulgar words at our mutual friend's place, he did the washing up when she fed him and he wasn't allowed to belch .
    He does all of these things at my place but I talked to him and he's going to stop .

  16. #16

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Well said. I think an ESE might be a little more willing to turn on the bully... but let's see if an ESE responds.
    Are there any other ESE's other than myself actually on this forum?

  17. #17
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Are there any other ESE's other than myself actually on this forum?
    dbmmama and (probably) teddybeanz IMO.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  18. #18
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My ESE husband did get in a fight once in school. And he has this sort of secret theory that I won't let him espouse to the kids that if someone hits you, hit them back. lol So... he avoids it but if confronted, he'll use it.

    I think alpha SFs kind of ignore Se most of the time, discount it a bit as though it's not all that important but then when they have to, they can use it. Once they see that they can't fix the problem any other way.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  19. #19
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    My ESE husband did get in a fight once in school. And he has this sort of secret theory that I won't let him espouse to the kids that if someone hits you, hit them back. lol So... he avoids it but if confronted, he'll use it.
    I think that's a decent adage to harbor in the back of one's mind. Although, I know from experience that it can't always be used as a rationalization for confrontation (just see sean's thread about pushing some girls out of his way lol). But, I'd rather have a parent who accepted this idea generally, than rejected it under some bullshit pacifist rationalization.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  20. #20
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Are there any other ESE's other than myself actually on this forum?
    There are others, but you're certainly the easiest one to find. So I could have rephrased that as "Let's see if Cracka responds."

    Mind answering the question? How do you respond to bullying (both when you're bullied and when someone else is bullied)? (I'm sure you must have answered this question before, but... er, I'm not going to paralyze myself by searching via every possible method before I can post this!)



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  21. #21
    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    your backyard
    Posts
    798
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    They can be pretty forceful...our SEI secretary yelled at the guys the other day for not putting new paper towels in the bathroom when they ran out. It was adorable.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  22. #22
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Sigh. is being associated with force and willpower again.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  23. #23
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,724
    Mentioned
    237 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Sigh. is being associated with force and willpower again.
    Isn't that what it is?

    My SEI brother is very easy-going. But sometimes when his younger SLE brother gets too wild and hurts something the SEI cares about, he'll stop everything and get defensive.

    My ESE friend was bossy, but she did it in an way most of the time.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  24. #24
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol yeah i remember those days...

    Se perceives the actual, physical attributes of things. Like, "that is this shape" or "things are this way in actuality"

    So Se-ers will often come across as forceful and aggressive because when they wish to make a change, they will attempt to alter things physically.

    Punching someone in the face will change them physically.

    Like with "possession."

    If I am holding a suitcase I possess it. I have it in my grasp. You can see this physical variable. I have it or I don't. This is what an Se would see.

    Now if you ripped the suitcase out of my hand YOU now possess it. An Se interprets this and understands this "there or its not" quality.

    An Ne however, might have given this item (the suitcase) an essential, internal attribute "private property." "Property" is purely conceptual whereas "possession" is actual and concrete.

    So not saying that these elements can't understand the difference, but they will perceive the circumstance differently and their philosophical ideology will prolly be somewhat influenced.
    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  25. #25

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    dbmmama and (probably) teddybeanz IMO.
    Cool, I kinda thought dbmmama is also an ESE but I've never seen that confirmed, and Teddybeanz I just never knew much about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    There are others, but you're certainly the easiest one to find. So I could have rephrased that as "Let's see if Cracka responds."

    Mind answering the question? How do you respond to bullying (both when you're bullied and when someone else is bullied)? (I'm sure you must have answered this question before, but... er, I'm not going to paralyze myself by searching via every possible method before I can post this!)
    As for the question on bullying, I only remember being bullied in school by 3 people when I was young. All three of them I got in fights with at some point, only one of those I actually had my ass totally kicked...lol. I usually just "let it go" to an extent, but when my "bully" would go too far, I couldn't. My parents were the type that said don't fight but knew that at some point you can't be someone's bitch.

    My brother was also a bit of a bully until I got a bit bigger than him and when we fought I broke his cheek bone, twice...lol.

    These days, I can't say I've been bullied at all by anyone... not that I can think of at least. As for other people being bullied, it's much like this place, if I see someone being an asshole to people I'll step in and say something. In a sense, I'd rather be a bully to someone elses bully if I think they need it. Having a career where I've never really been around younger people, it's just not something that's prevalent around me in real life anymore.

  26. #26
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,078
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    When an Alpha SF has to use Se, what does it look like? How does it feel for them? How do they typically react to Se?
    I'm not ESE, but I have a friend who I'm pretty sure is, so I can give my perspective that way. (Though, knowing how you are defining Se might be helpful; then I could know better how to answer your question.)

    In terms of physical toughness, she's more so than me. Much more. Growing up with two older brothers and no sister might have influenced that. But in any case she would have absolutely no problems if/when she ever wanted to whup me. She played soccer when younger, and according to her own reports could be quite ferocious.

    She's also definitely more spatially aware than me. That may be more Si, though.

    In terms of non-physical forcefulness, it depends on the circumstance. She can be quite firm, especially when she's in charge. But I've never seen her be really mean about it. It's usually more like, "These are the rules/principles, and these are the consequences. I'm sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is." Sometimes she doesn't always see alternatives, but she's considerate of other people and tends to cater to their wants when possible.

    I think sometimes I have more of an "allergic" reaction to people being controlling of me/us. She'll either go along with it (unless I point out why we shouldn't and offer an alternative), or just matter-of-factly break the rules or do things her way. I seem to have more inner turmoil over it all.

    As far as bullying goes... I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure she'd defend me if I ever needed it. And she's said that when she was younger her brothers would pick on her. But she would often fight back.

    Does that help at all?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  27. #27
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,625
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with basically all of what Minde says. Alpha SFs, especially ESEs, will definitely let you know when they are "in charge", although they are generally more subtle about it than ego types, and tend to avoid making power structures if possible. They also tend to be comfortable with firmly making decisions that affect other people - something intuitive types are horrendously bad at.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,101
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I agree with basically all of what Minde says. Alpha SFs, especially ESEs, will definitely let you know when they are "in charge", although they are generally more subtle about it than ego types, and tend to avoid making power structures if possible. They also tend to be comfortable with firmly making decisions that affect other people - something intuitive types are horrendously bad at.
    I agree with this.

  29. #29
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I'm not ESE, but I have a friend who I'm pretty sure is, so I can give my perspective that way. (Though, knowing how you are defining Se might be helpful; then I could know better how to answer your question.)

    In terms of physical toughness, she's more so than me. Much more. Growing up with two older brothers and no sister might have influenced that. But in any case she would have absolutely no problems if/when she ever wanted to whup me. She played soccer when younger, and according to her own reports could be quite ferocious.

    She's also definitely more spatially aware than me. That may be more Si, though.

    In terms of non-physical forcefulness, it depends on the circumstance. She can be quite firm, especially when she's in charge. But I've never seen her be really mean about it. It's usually more like, "These are the rules/principles, and these are the consequences. I'm sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is." Sometimes she doesn't always see alternatives, but she's considerate of other people and tends to cater to their wants when possible.

    I think sometimes I have more of an "allergic" reaction to people being controlling of me/us. She'll either go along with it (unless I point out why we shouldn't and offer an alternative), or just matter-of-factly break the rules or do things her way. I seem to have more inner turmoil over it all.

    As far as bullying goes... I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure she'd defend me if I ever needed it. And she's said that when she was younger her brothers would pick on her. But she would often fight back.

    Does that help at all?
    Yeah, thanks. (c:

    Could you describe more what you mean by "allergic reaction"?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  30. #30
    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    your backyard
    Posts
    798
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    and ISFp is totally using Se right now on the Alpha drawball.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  31. #31
    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    POOPLAIR
    TIM
    Alpha NT 5w4 so/sx
    Posts
    4,399
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    OPERATION POOPLAIR

    Now conscripting, for more information come here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...48#post1003048

  32. #32
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    boxxy approves this song.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  33. #33
    forgetmenot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    175
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Are there any other ESE's other than myself actually on this forum?
    I might be ESE but I'm still not sure. Anyway, I described my behaviour. When I argue with somebody I may scream but I usually feel guilty later on. I try to avoid arguments but I would surely stand up for somebody else's rights, no matter what .

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •