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Thread: SLEs/ESTps and rudeness

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    Default SLEs/ESTps and rudeness

    What are your experiences of SLEs and rudeness?

    Do you think SLEs are rude?

    Do you think that perhaps what to one person is rude may be blunt and/or honest to another? If so, is it type-related?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Do you think that perhaps what to one person is rude may be blunt and/or honest to another?
    Abso-fucking-lutely.

    If so, is it type-related?
    I would say that logical types would probably tend to be more often seen as rude from the outside because of low Fe, but ultimately any type can appear as rude to anyone for many different reasons while there would always be someone else who would be interpreting the rudeness as something along the lines of honesty, bluntness, purposefulnesses, integrity, strong will, sympathy, or anything really, depending on contents of the situation and one's own perspective and subjective views. Bleh...
    Last edited by Park; 02-24-2009 at 03:33 PM.
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    Shutting up can be rude too. So you really can't escape. I don't suppose Victorian manners would get you considered rude, but "stuck-up" might quickly fill the void.



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    This SLE guy I liked was annoyed at me .. so when we were walking with a bunch of people one night, he stopped in the middle of the path and kissed another girl right in front of me. :/ As I passed them, I heard her say "wtf was that for?". lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    weak Fi too.
    Yeah, but I think the lack of Fe would be the one to make something "look" rude, even if it isn't rude in general Fi terms for example. That, and Se/Ni (as opposed to Si) valuing, too, perhaps.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What are your experiences of SLEs and rudeness?

    Do you think SLEs are rude?

    Do you think that perhaps what to one person is rude may be blunt and/or honest to another? If so, is it type-related?
    i dont think its intentional...we just act so quickly sometimes we dont consider the "moral" consequences. but were not deliberatley trying to hurt neones feelings

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    I actually really value people who are going to be blunt and honest; it's incredibly refreshing. There is a limit though. There's a difference between being blunt and straight up rude.

    I remember a SLE girl I used to be close to. She was very blunt and I enjoyed her bluntness, but sometimes she'd let it go overboard. For instance, I remember we were talking to this guy who had really bad acne and she said something like "Gross, it looks like you have some kind of fungus on your face." The guy immediately looked hurt but tried to play it off. I was shocked that she'd say something so openly rude; the fact that she wouldn't even stop to think that a comment like that would be hurtful; I don't even think she could tell that her comment made him uncomfortable. I immediately gave her an angry glare and she looked honestly confused. Later when he left I told her how rude that kind of comment was, and explained to her that something like that could really hurt someones feelings and how he was probably already aware of his condition. When I explained that to her she truly looked upset and felt badly over what she had done. I don't think she ever made a comment like that again to the guy, and she later ended up dating him, lol.

    Anyway, I don't think SLE's try to be mean or rude, but I really don't think they realize it when they're going to far with their bluntness.
    Last edited by fox; 02-24-2009 at 07:31 PM.

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    I don't think they are generally rude, it's that sometimes they "forget" for a moment about emphaty and may make a very snarky comment/sentence that turns a person away. Blunt/honest is different than rude in the sense that, a blunt person can say something unpleasant when it is needed, a rude person (or a rude comment) will say something unpleasant even when it's uncalled for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't think they are generally rude, it's that sometimes they "forget" for a moment about emphaty and may make a very snarky comment/sentence that turns a person away. Blunt/honest is different than rude in the sense that, a blunt person can say something unpleasant when it is needed, a rude person (or a rude comment) will say something unpleasant even when it's uncalled for.
    Yea, I think Fe dominant can be very rude and very good at it at times.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Every SLE I've ever met has been rude and I have a hard time comprehending how they don't understand their bluntness can be viewed as being rude. I find that that's common knowledge. I also get the vibe they think the world revolves around them. I think I'm EII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Every SLE I've ever met has been rude and I have a hard time comprehending how they don't understand their bluntness can be viewed as being rude. I find that that's common knowledge. I also get the vibe they think the world revolves around them. I think I'm EII.
    LOL!
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Every SLE I've ever met has been rude and I have a hard time comprehending how they don't understand their bluntness can be viewed as being rude. I find that that's common knowledge. I also get the vibe they think the world revolves around them. I think I'm EII.
    Jessica i am your contrary or conflictor? Oh wait I think I am ENFP... I smell blind Dual date.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Every SLE I've ever met has been rude and I have a hard time comprehending how they don't understand their bluntness can be viewed as being rude. I find that that's common knowledge. I also get the vibe they think the world revolves around them. I think I'm EII.
    HA! I think this lack of awareness and bluntness is actually kind of... charming in a way. Obviously not if it really hurts someone but in general it doesn't bother me and I find myself laughing at SLEs all the time. I am aware, however, that others find them offensive sometimes. And I even kind of like that because I feel like it gives me an edge. I can be like oh don't worry about those people, I know you didn't mean to be offensive and then they feel better and love me for it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    HA! I think this lack of awareness and bluntness is actually kind of... charming in a way. Obviously not if it really hurts someone but in general it doesn't bother me and I find myself laughing at SLEs all the time. I am aware, however, that others find them offensive sometimes. And I even kind of like that because I feel like it gives me an edge. I can be like oh don't worry about those people, I know you didn't mean to be offensive and then they feel better and love me for it.
    yeah. i actually find it sort of endearing.
    also, some SLEs I know will preface completely non-rude statements with "Sorry if this is crass, but..." However, they'll just say the most obviously rude statements without even a second thought. It always kind of makes me go "whah?" lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    yeah. i actually find it sort of endearing.
    also, some SLEs I know will preface completely non-rude statements with "Sorry if this is crass, but..." However, they'll just say the most obviously rude statements without even a second thought. It always kind of makes me go "whah?" lol
    yeah, it's like they have NO IDEA what's perceived as crass and what's not. hahahaha I'm so amused by them.
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    I like it when they use their Power that they are gifted on, a divine right, and use it responsibly and fairly.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    "Sorry if this is crass, but..."
    Yeah, and that irritates me so much. If you're going to say something ignorant, don't apologize beforehand! It just makes the insult so much worse. It's like they'll go up to someone and say "Sorry if this is harsh, but you're a pathetic loser. No one likes you. You should just kill yourself. You're ugly." "Oh, by the way, want to come to my party later?!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Yeah, and that irritates me so much. If you're going to say something ignorant, don't apologize beforehand! It just makes the insult so much worse. It's like they'll go up to someone and say "Sorry if this is harsh, but you're a pathetic loser. No one likes you. You should just kill yourself. You're ugly." "Oh, by the way, want to come to my party later?!!"
    Ritella was saying that sometimes they'll say "sorry if this is crass..." but then say something totally NOT offensive. And then other times they'll just say something that IS offensive without prefacing it. It's like they can't tell. That's what's so cute!
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    Oh. Well I've known many who preface those statements with apologies before ripping them apart. I will never understand beta. Off I go.

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    its great for a laugh but in a "businesslike" atmosphere it isn't appreciated. i have found that most blue collar guys appreciate it and get a kick out of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by smccosker View Post
    its great for a laugh but in a "businesslike" atmosphere it isn't appreciated. i have found that most blue collar guys appreciate it and get a kick out of it
    yes. the SLE I know is very white-collar, he's a VP for a large financial firm and spends his days interacting with clients. I think SLEs can learn what to say and what not to say over time and with experience (and the help of their dual--he's married to an IEI)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    For instance, I remember we were talking to this guy who had really bad acne and she said something like "Gross, it looks like you have some kind of fungus on your face."
    FUCKING LOL

    That's really bad, I would never do something like that. But I catch your drift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Yeah, and that irritates me so much. If you're going to say something ignorant, don't apologize beforehand! It just makes the insult so much worse. It's like they'll go up to someone and say "Sorry if this is harsh, but you're a pathetic loser. No one likes you. You should just kill yourself. You're ugly." "Oh, by the way, want to come to my party later?!!"
    Yeah, I hate this kind of shit. It's happened before with parents and friends, where they'll put a disclaimer on their comments, so that they can deliver it comfortably. But, if it's honest, that's fine. Putting a qualifier on it implies that you're more focused on preserving feelings at the cost of truth/honesty, which falls short.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    FUCKING LOL

    That's really bad, I would never do something like that. But I catch your drift.
    I remember a few incidents like this with my SLE friend. One which sort of annoyed me, was when he decided to make fun of some goth girl's eyeliner in his ceramics class. Of course, his ISTp brother and our ESTj friend were there, with full-fledged support for the antics. But he was basically like, "HEY!" and she looked up sort of diffidently, and he says, "I like your eyeliner" in the most deadpan voice and just stares at her until she looks away. I thought it was ultimately pretty pointless and rude, albeit fairly hilarious at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What are your experiences of SLEs and rudeness?
    SLE's and rudeness, hm...? I've got a story that stands out to me regarding that. Normally I quite like and am forgiving/lenient towards the ESTps I know and their social gaffes. They are generally good people. But this instance was inexcusable, to me.

    At the camp I've worked at, for the older ages of kids we'd put on a sort of talent show. One week the director (who I have typed as ESTp) had an old friend stay with us. I can't remember whether or not he was the speaker for the week, but I do remember that I didn't really like him. Nothing blatant, per se, but weird vibes. He and the director seemed to get along great, always joking and laughing, usually in a loud and boisterous manner. I remembers staying a little further away from the director than normal that week.

    The night of the talent show we had the normal mix of entertaining staff performances interspersed with the campers' less polished but still enthusiastic exhibitions. About 3/4 of the way through the evening, a kid got on the stage to tell jokes. He prefaced by saying this was his first time at the camp, that he had come by himself, but that he had found this place welcoming and the staff kind and caring (a fairly typical expression). After that he proceeded to tell the lamest jokes in the lamest possible fashion. From my view, he seemed sincere - he was actually trying to perform and entertain. But it was truly painful to watch.

    At first the crowd was a little puzzled and there were some awkward silences, but it must have been a fairly good natured group of kids because after a couple of minutes they started clapping, laughing, cheering, and otherwise making the best of it.

    The whole evening, the director and his buddy had been sitting in the back, making comments, laughing, etc., but not being too terribly disturbing. (Although I did give them a couple of invisible glares.) As the kid's "performance" stretched out, the comments from those two got louder and more negative. Then, suddenly, after a whisper to each other, they started snickering and headed around to the back stage. A minute later I saw something that I've seen in comedies, but never IRL, before or since.

    One of those shepherd-crook canes edged out from the dark side of the stage and made a grab at the boy. He looked startled, but tried to keep going. It swung again and caught his arm, and then around his shoulders, and yanked him to the side away from center stage. He looked confused, and tried to keep talking, but then he got pulled completely off the stage.

    I think the show just went on. The crowd was puzzled again. Some laughed, thinking it was part of the show. The kid left the building through a side door and didn't come back. I talked later with his group leader/counselor, who was furious with the director (and I think still holds it against him). The boy had come from a tough background, and was just the type of person our goal is to help. The counselor had been working all week, and finally succeeding, in getting past internal walls and fears, helping the kid open up to love and acceptance. And the director and his buddy had broken that all down again with their insensitivity.


    Yeah, that's kind of a long story. And I've forgiven the director - after all, he felt bad about it later, and everybody makes mistakes - but it's the strongest example that came to my mind when you asked about SLEs and rudeness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Do you think SLEs are rude?
    Sure. So are other people. They may have a greater tendency to not realize what they're doing. But that doesn't in and of itself make them worse people or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Do you think that perhaps what to one person is rude may be blunt and/or honest to another? If so, is it type-related?
    Yes, I think so. But there are certain... lines, I guess. There's rudeness/bluntness, and then there's cruelty. Sometimes those lines seem fuzzy, but I digress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What are your experiences of SLEs and rudeness?

    Do you think SLEs are rude?

    Do you think that perhaps what to one person is rude may be blunt and/or honest to another? If so, is it type-related?
    the only question here easy to answer is the last one. Yes- , but it also has a lot to do with EI and knowing how to take things for what their worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I think I'm EII.
    lol

    I think you can still think what you did and be any type in Delta; not necessarily EII.

    Even if you were joking, there's still some truth in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    SLE's and rudeness, hm...? I've got a story that stands out to me regarding that. Normally I quite like and am forgiving/lenient towards the ESTps I know and their social gaffes. They are generally good people. But this instance was inexcusable, to me.

    At the camp I've worked at, for the older ages of kids we'd put on a sort of talent show. One week the director (who I have typed as ESTp) had an old friend stay with us. I can't remember whether or not he was the speaker for the week, but I do remember that I didn't really like him. Nothing blatant, per se, but weird vibes. He and the director seemed to get along great, always joking and laughing, usually in a loud and boisterous manner. I remembers staying a little further away from the director than normal that week.

    The night of the talent show we had the normal mix of entertaining staff performances interspersed with the campers' less polished but still enthusiastic exhibitions. About 3/4 of the way through the evening, a kid got on the stage to tell jokes. He prefaced by saying this was his first time at the camp, that he had come by himself, but that he had found this place welcoming and the staff kind and caring (a fairly typical expression). After that he proceeded to tell the lamest jokes in the lamest possible fashion. From my view, he seemed sincere - he was actually trying to perform and entertain. But it was truly painful to watch.

    At first the crowd was a little puzzled and there were some awkward silences, but it must have been a fairly good natured group of kids because after a couple of minutes they started clapping, laughing, cheering, and otherwise making the best of it.

    The whole evening, the director and his buddy had been sitting in the back, making comments, laughing, etc., but not being too terribly disturbing. (Although I did give them a couple of invisible glares.) As the kid's "performance" stretched out, the comments from those two got louder and more negative. Then, suddenly, after a whisper to each other, they started snickering and headed around to the back stage. A minute later I saw something that I've seen in comedies, but never IRL, before or since.

    One of those shepherd-crook canes edged out from the dark side of the stage and made a grab at the boy. He looked startled, but tried to keep going. It swung again and caught his arm, and then around his shoulders, and yanked him to the side away from center stage. He looked confused, and tried to keep talking, but then he got pulled completely off the stage.

    I think the show just went on. The crowd was puzzled again. Some laughed, thinking it was part of the show. The kid left the building through a side door and didn't come back. I talked later with his group leader/counselor, who was furious with the director (and I think still holds it against him). The boy had come from a tough background, and was just the type of person our goal is to help. The counselor had been working all week, and finally succeeding, in getting past internal walls and fears, helping the kid open up to love and acceptance. And the director and his buddy had broken that all down again with their insensitivity.
    Yeah, that's not great.

    I thought you were going to say he committed suicide or something.

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    I just realized the rudest thing an SLE has ever done to me. Unfortunately, it's not forum appropriate. :/
    EII; E6(w5)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    I just realized the rudest thing an SLE has ever done to me. Unfortunately, it's not forum appropriate. :/
    was it that thing you told me on pm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    was it that thing you told me on pm?
    ahahaha. yes.
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    LMFAO, SLEs I fucking love it, you crack me up <3!
    (but seriously how can you not see that calling someone..say -a worthless fucking cunt-, is offensive?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    (but seriously how can you not see that calling someone..say -a worthless fucking cunt-, is offensive?)
    Of course, that's why we say it. Phrases ideal for perfect execution are there for a reason.

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