What differences in type have people here observed between straight vs. homosexual people of the same type, especially when its a more masculine type?
Being gay and its effects on type
What differences in type have people here observed between straight vs. homosexual people of the same type, especially when its a more masculine type?
Well, all types- even the Fe-PoLR ones- will be more inclined to use jazz hands and spirit fingers.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
LOriginally Posted by Ritella
L
BnD! Where are you?! You dual is asking a question about homosexuality and socionics and you aren't here to respond immediately? You're dropping the ball, bud.
On a more serious note, I haven't noticed a huge difference. I have a lot of gay friends who aren't particularly flamboyant about it. I would say the difference is not so much in the "masculine socionic type" gays, but the Fe-ego gays. They seem to be a hell of a lot more effeminate and out-there. I would guess it's because they're a lot more expressive and open than some other types.
I have one friend who's an ESTp and gay and he's generally pretty arrogant and narcissistic. He's can be a bit of a diva at times, but generally speaking he's a pretty regular guy.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
ahahaWell, all types- even the Fe-PoLR ones- will be more inclined to use jazz hands and spirit fingers.
On a side note, the first time I ever saw two openly gay men holding hands was when I went to nyc. It's kind of hard to meet people around here who say/talk about homosexuality. Yeah I know, I live in a very diverse and enlightened section of the country.
The only person who ever talked about it with me was someone who lived on my floor first year. He was a very sensitive and quietly amiable guy.
yeah, that's sort of odd to me. most of my male friends are gay. i often follow them into gay bars and ****** shows, where there are full on makeout sessions. also, i babysit for a gay male couple who adopted a child together.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
i would never adopt a child, i would make the baby myself and raise him with my wife and go out at night and have sex with strange attractive men...then return home to my loving wife. Seriously I dunno, i don't think i would make my own baby (im afraid hed pop out gay) and i dont want to adopt one and raise him with another man he'd get picked on at school all the time. Unless i adopted a gay baby...lol that'd be funny.
yay AIDS!
fwiw, i think it's best you don't procreate.
-
It's Binky bitch.
See not the unsmiling lips and icy eyes,
And hear not the silence after.
Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
And listen to the laughter.
well, a lot of gay guys also try insemination methods in which they BOTH inject their sperm into a host so it's "their" child, but they're not sure whose sperm it actually came from.
yeah, tbh, i really don't know how i feel about children raised by a gay couple. there's something that seems a little awkward or unnatural to it, but I really don't see why it would be wrong or bad. If the parents are loving and take on mom-dad roles, then, at best, the kid grows up with a very open mind toward same-sex relationships, and, at worst, he turns out gay himself (and that's not bad, IMO).
I will say, though, that though the kid with the 2 Dads is probably the most well-adjusted child I've babysat, I do feel sort of sorry for him that he has no female in his life and tend to smother him with hugs whenever I see him.
EII; E6(w5)
i am flakey
I chose a gay male couple to adopt my baby, and that has turned out awesome. Obviously, results will differ!
She's five years old now, and has picked up on the fact that most of her friends have a Mommy and Daddy instead of two Daddies, but she's a very happy and well-adjusted kid. The guys report that sometimes she'll call one or the other of them "Mommy" but usually one of them is Dad and the other is Daddy.
They live in Philadelphia, and one of them works for a university that offers full benefits to domestic partners. They feel safe enough to walk in public holding hands. Families on both sides are completely supportive of them as a couple and as parents.
They're coming down to visit in just a few weeks, and they'll stay at *my* parents' house. I was a little worried back in 2003 that my Dad wouldn't be comfortable around them, but as things have turned out, both my parents totally dig hosting the three of them.
Living in East Tennessee, I am somewhat circumspect about announcing that the couple who adopted my child are gay, but my coworkers know that I have a child for whom I chose adoptive parents, and every single one of them has reacted positively when I've added that I stay in contact with them.
As for the original purpose of the thread, I don't think being gay has an effect on type per se - but it certainly complicates personal development, depending on the environments in which the person was raised.
SLI
Yeah.Ugh.
4w3-5w6-8w7
So you're ashamed of being gay? By the way, I think there are probobly too many married men who do exactly what you described here...minus the adopting a gay baby part.i would never adopt a child, i would make the baby myself and raise him with my wife and go out at night and have sex with strange attractive men...then return home to my loving wife. Seriously I dunno, i don't think i would make my own baby (im afraid hed pop out gay) and i dont want to adopt one and raise him with another man he'd get picked on at school all the time. Unless i adopted a gay baby...lol that'd be funny.
The only difference between and heterosexual and a homosexual of the same type is that one is straight and the other is gay. Other than that, no difference.
They say straight NTs are engineers and gays NTs are architects
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
--> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
So that's why you don't have a type!
lmao
4w3-5w6-8w7
brilliant. absolutely.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Socionic type is more "meta" than sexual orientation. Of course, that's pending a theory of type changes... I'm basically assuming that changes in sexual orientation are possible and changes in Socionic type are not in making that statement.
A variable thing will never control a permanent thing. If it did, then the permanent thing would become variable.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Yeah, pretty much what people have been saying. I've got some gay delta friends, male and female, and we get on at a cognitive level. Sexual preference doesn't affect that, is my experience of it.
I suppose, as someone mentioned, someone with high Fe may act like a stereotypical gay, although i'm sure plenty don't, but someone who is receptive to such Fe emotionial expressiveness might even enjoy being around the atmosphere(s) being generated anyway.
FIXED ...
No difference whatsoever. Every homosexual man I've met is way different. Because of social laws, and yearning to be noticed - you *might* could argue that gay men are innately more Fe-based than Fi-based, but I doubt that perception is true.What differences in type have people here observed between straight vs. homosexual people of the same type, especially when its a more masculine type?
Whoa, wait. Come on Sean, my fellow gay shaman brother, I thought you knew better than to play the tired ol' self-hating card. Were you being sarcastic? You really wouldn't treat a woman like that would you? Bad Sean, Baaad. Where's my tough estp guy huh? You're gonna run away from the good fight because a little *teasing?* That doesn't sound like the epic gay warrior I know!i would never adopt a child, i would make the baby myself and raise him with my wife and go out at night and have sex with strange attractive men...then return home to my loving wife. Seriously I dunno, i don't think i would make my own baby (im afraid hed pop out gay) and i dont want to adopt one and raise him with another man he'd get picked on at school all the time. Unless i adopted a gay baby...lol that'd be funny.
Ehh ... actually, BulletsAndDoves, there are a crap load of guys out there who play the straight card, marry women for children and when no one else is around find some dude to come screw them, just like they do their wives or girlfriends or whatever. This world is full of closet homos. It is blazingly common in fact, but for the most part it is a hidden factor of society no one seems to acknowledge or talk about.
There are alot of factors that make people gay. Some people are legitimatelly born with gay with same sex tendencies and others are deceived and brainwashed into being gay. You can tell the difference between a legitimate gay and a brainwashed one by their level of comfort around other people.
For example, transsexuals ... there are a bunch of them who are legitimatelly the other sex they were not born with, then you have the ones who are encouraged from certain factors to be the other gender and made to either suppress the tendency or made to fit the role.
Well, legitimate transsexual pretty much act like every other genetic man or woman, taking they were born in a body different than their actual sex in all aspects of their behavior. They usually tend to despise the genitals they were born with and all aspects of their birth sex. They also do not like it one bit when you infer at all that they are their birth sex. In all aspects that want people to recognize them for the sex they project, and not their birth sex.
Then you got the transsexuals who are probably just really transgendered, maybe they come off a little too much like the other sex all the time and just want to have liberty to be themselves. So, they do thing to look like the other sex. They usually love their birth genitals, and in fact usually parade them around. Most of these people are bisexuals who behave like the other sex.
There seems to be a signifigantly large portion of transgendered people who become feminist, and as a result become diehard transsexuals and feminists. These people are not true transsexuals [they are transgendered at most], and for the most part I have found them to be bitter angry people inside. I tend to stay away from these sort of people.
Then you have the gay men who are a biproduct of gay subculture and act gay, because that is the way they feel most comfortable. Usually these sort of gays are extremely open about being gay and express that comfortably out in the open everywhere they go. Most of these people are content they way they are and want to change nothing about themselves.
Then you have the straight acting people who are completely paranoid of all of these people and afraid that being around them is going to contaminate them. These straight acting people should learn to grow the hell up and realize this world is not exactly a perfect gender/sex pure paradise. Usually these people are highly conservative and think the world should fit in this tight little box they have imagined ... well, I think they should take that box out of their ass and get a dose of reality. There is no such thing as perfect anything in this world.
In any case, gender and what sex you are has nothing to do with the socionics functions you have. It is actually a whole other study in itself.
Oh, I already know this. That's why '2-10%' of men are gay is a bullshit statistic. Try closer to 30%. It's just a hunch, but I always felt like the number of gay men was closer to 30%.Ehh ... actually, BulletsAndDoves, there are a crap load of guys out there who play the straight card, marry women for children and when no one else is around find some dude to come screw them, just like they do their wives or girlfriends or whatever.
Except me. I talk about it all the time, really- as it's a problem that needs addressing for sure.This world is full of closet homos. It is blazingly common in fact, but for the most part it is a hidden factor of society no one seems to acknowledge or talk about.
That's just your subjective perception anyway. Nobody really knows how sexual orientation is truly developed, but you're right, it probably depends on each individual. There is no blanket 'right answer.' The problem with finding out if people are gay or not, is there doesn't seem to be that good of a 'control subject': heterosexuals. The very question raised on how people are gay (even if you use the politically correct phrase 'sexual orientation'), already assumes heterosexuality is superior, something that doesn't sit well with some folks. Me, I'm tired of it. Even if heterosexuality *is* innately superior, there are still simply gay people and people need to deal with it. There's no good arguement to use. Deafness and blindness is a defect as well, a 'glitch on society', but they still have all their equal rights and the chance to love. Blah.There are alot of factors that make people gay. Some people are legitimatelly born with gay with same sex tendencies and others are deceived and brainwashed into being gay. You can tell the difference between a legitimate gay and a brainwashed one by their level of comfort around other people.
I'm glad it's a mystery. Because if people really did find out, there would be a mass genocide of gayness by some of the crazier people in society, you just know there would be. Homosexuality should always remain a puzzle, always an enigma, always a question. And Mother Nature, bless her heart, seems to have a way to make sure this is always the case.
Word.Then you have the straight acting people who are completely paranoid of all of these people and afraid that being around them is going to contaminate them. These straight acting people should learn to grow the hell up and realize this world is not exactly a perfect gender/sex pure paradise. Usually these people are highly conservative and think the world should fit in this tight little box they have imagined ... well, I think they should take that box out of their ass and get a dose of reality. There is no such thing as perfect anything in this world.
i was joking about the wife thing. but honestly i wouldnt want to raise a child in a gay environment unless i adopt a homosexual kid. i mean it would be too weird for the kid, especially if it's a boy. so i guess i won't have kids. i dunno whatever
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What?
All men are ST, all women are NF.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Yeah, that was the implication I assumed he was making.
And there's confusion over people being sarcastic in response to threads like this? Really?
Now I'm confused.I've never used sarcasm much, but lately I've found it easier to say something absurdly more extreme than what I mean that to sort out exactly what I mean.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Wait, hold up. No homosexual males go after children. Not even ones heavily involved in the sex/partying lifestyle. No children are exposed to that. Do you really think the law would allow that, especially in this country? Get real man. Obviously there are homosexual males that target gay kids but many more straight people do it. Most people who molest kids self-identify as heterosexual (and really are heterosexual), or they are deeply in the closet. An openly gay man that goes after children is virtually unheard of. And again, if a gay man is heavily involved in the stereotypical gay life, he isn't going to want to worry about a kid anyway.i like how you think and that's why i think a parent like you would probably keep the child safe from a sick environment.
Oh and two dudes have raised children fine, sooo that arguement holds no water. And even if they don't? Personal responsibility. Not anything to do with sexuality, or a reason to discriminate based on sexuality.
LOL. Gay people don't have to be hesitant about their decisions, they simply want to live life and have every opportunity as you do. You're actually making excuses for them if you blame their problems on their homosexuality instead of their own choices. I wonder if I can 'call in gay' at my job? That'd be funny. Which is kinda of the angle you're leaning at, because I don't think you've quite met many gay men from your posts.pity that the sick type of gays i written above are not so hesitant in decisions.
So the heterosexual culture with the sports games, beer and hooters then is the 'correct one?' While I agree, creating *any* culture based on one's sexuality doesn't do anything productive for society either way (besides pure entertainment value) - you have to be fair there. And there isn't anything decadent that gays do that straights don't do as well.these guys are the ones i don't like, and i believe because of them ppl consider gays not natural. even if they have the right to the subculture, i personally despise them because this interferes with the way of thinking and interacting with others. to deal with such guys is like dealing with ones presenting themselves as Napoleon.
There are gay thieves, gay murderers and gay people with absolutely no ethics to speak of. Of course, the same is true for straight people. Not a really convincing argument to prevent gay men from having all the equal protections under the law and their relationships, is it?
As for effeminate gay males annoying you, they annoy me too. However, it also equally annoys me when guys say 'bro' or 'dude' a lot and talk in str8 male speak too much. Does that mean I can take away all their civil rights and protections too? Ooh goodie! You don't have a right not to be offended by person's mannerisms or personality. That's just silly. I'm sorry - THILLY!
wtf is this link dude? That's the second thread i've opened in a row with you posting it.
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I get your point. It's just not really terribly realistic to expect gay guys to 'Be really super polite and you might get your rights.'
I've tried that already.
It just doesn't work. It never will work. If you think we like having to be mean or campy/in your face sometimes, you're wrong. But it's very effective usually. I know you may not realize that, but asking gay guys to behave a certain way to get what should be naturally self-evident based on one's humanity is well... Eh. I agree, respect has to be earned. But having our relationships validated by the government isn't really about respect, or commitment. (As disrespectful straights can get a marriage license too, hell do you realize you don't even have to sleep together or like each other to get married as long as you're the opposite genders? lol) It's about fairness and equality. And besides, we've learned the hard way you really can't make a martyr out of anybody.
Even the pro-gay side says it's about 'Love.' No. What's love got to do with anything? It's homophobes' being a mean bully and telling gay people they can't have something LOL gay guys aren't gonna sit too kindly with that one.
If you don't think the government should be involved in ANY relationship, I support that. But you can't pick and choose. That just divides people and creates more problems. Most gay guys want to be gay everywhere, not in select little corners where people say 'that's okay.' It's just silly. Like how 'Civil Unions' is an awkward phrase. Would you ask somebody you love to 'Civil Union' you?
I suppose cpig's right. I guess I am just a 'socialist ******' and love our 'emo' pussy faggy programs about socially treating people well. They do a lot of good in society and we need more of them. Not just in LA.
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Ah but 'behavior abnormality' is a subjective quirk one can't base any healthy laws around. What's a 'behavior abnormality' to you might be attractive to somebody else. One man's hero is another man's terrorist, etc. etc.
It doesn't mean anything goes. It just means that it is impossible to legislate or dictate people based on that kind of vague 'ick factor' criteria. But I certainly 'know what you mean' with a wink and a sly grin/nod.
Sodomy laws were rarely enforced even back in the day before they were federally done away with. It was again just more of that general EWWWWW that you're referring to. But still they were there, and they were *technically* illegal. Of course when wrong-wing morons were dumb enough to actually try and act upon them, that's when people rolled their eyes and done away with em.
Cause what people write about what they want to happen is rarely the case in what needs to happen for a workable society to work.
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