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Thread: Ni-Se Base Duality

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Ni-Se Base Duality

    What Ni offers. Ni base types are able to consider the potential outcome of a situation, and use this to reign in on the impulse of the Se base type. They are able to bring an element of wisdom to the Se base's total certainty in what the Se base type believes is basically the Truth (potentially more relevant to the SLE than to the SEE). The Ni base type knows when it's a good idea for the Se base type to hold back, and offers counsel at these times, which the Se base type, who trusts the Ni base type in their confidence about the future, willingly accepts.

    What Se offers. Se base types are able to kick start Ni base types into action in a way which keeps them motivated for a prolonged amount of time. They can put an end to the Ni base type's dithering in their thinking, and will often quell unnecessary uncertainty, or haziness when a decision must be made. The Se base type knows when it's a good idea to act, and the Ni base type will gladly accept the Se base type's plan of action, knowing (using their Ni) that it will be fruitful in the long run.

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Ezra's description makes Se base types sound like children to me.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I don't really consider Se types to be reckless or acting impulsively like you're describing at all. In contrast, I think Se has a lot to do with self-control. I know when to or when not to act rather instinctually.
    More or less. If anything, it is the Ni ego types (especially Ni-ENxjs) who would be likely to engage in said behavior, due to not having precise control over that function. I have never met any ESxps, let alone ISxjs, regardless of subtype, who had issues with impulsivity, lack of foresight, or over-exertion of willpower ("issues" meaning anything that is excessive, in comparison to other types).

    Again, it is more often than not the ESxjs who engage in the sort of emphasized environmental control and such. Actual Se egos don't feel the need to really exert any "force" or control unless necessary, as they already feel pretty much in control, due to the nature of how they process the environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Ezra's description makes Se base types sound like children to me.
    lol. It resembles more of some crazy ESFj who won't shut the fuck up.
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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    I want to point out that Ezra's description was careful in it's reference to "Se base" types, meaning SLE and SEE specifically. Just so it isn't forgotten.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    More or less. If anything, it is the Ni ego types (especially Ni-ENxjs) who would be likely to engage in said behavior, due to not having precise control over that function.
    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Again, it is more often than not the ESxjs who engage in the sort of emphasized environmental control and such. Actual Se egos don't feel the need to really exert any "force" or control unless necessary, as they already feel pretty much in control, due to the nature of how they process the environment.
    I was thinking myself that the description in the OP might be just as relevant to ESTj-INFj relationship as the types Ezra was refering to. Mostly because I can see how the Fi/Ne functions can naturally help with this. And I agree with the bolded parts due to real life observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    lol. It resembles more of some crazy ESFj who won't shut the fuck up.
    lol, I wouldn't know.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    I want to point out that Ezra's description was careful in it's reference to "Se base" types, meaning SLE and SEE specifically. Just so it isn't forgotten.
    Yeah. There's definitely a more deliberate feel to the way ISxjs go about their Se-usage; and the Se-subs tend to have a very controlled reactivity to them. I find my duals and semi-duals refreshing because of the adaptability they bring to interactions.

    I was thinking myself that the description in the OP might be just as relevant to ESTj-INFj relationship as the types Ezra was refering to. Mostly because I can see how the Fi/Ne functions can naturally help with this. And I agree with the bolded parts due to real life observations.
    Interesting you say that, lol. I completely agree. That dyad is the perfect example of some cavalier dude getting pulled in and put into place by a quiet, stabilizing force.

    There is an irony one finds when they consider the people who have promoted these stereotypes with the highest frequency.
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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Again, it is more often than not the ESxjs who engage in the sort of emphasized environmental control and such. Actual Se egos don't feel the need to really exert any "force" or control unless necessary, as they already feel pretty much in control, due to the nature of how they process the environment.
    This has been my experience as well and I think it makes sense. It is funny to see the difference in emphasis between SEEs and SLEs though. That whole Fi thing! I often get annoyed with how my mom (SEE) talks to or about an SLE friend. I know she doesn't mean any harm but she'll often say things that seem irrelevant to me. He doesn't ever seem bothered by it though. But to me it looks like she's judging him. I'd definitely say he's the more cool and collected and less impulsive of the two.

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    ***el X Mercenary Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    My ESE mother
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    my mom (SEE)
    Whoa, Fe leading turned into Se all of a sudden. Let's talk about it.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Whoa, Fe leading turned into Se all of a sudden. Let's talk about it.
    lol @ you remembering and somehow digging up that very, very old post.

    I've been typing my mom as SEE for a long time now. I had no clue what I was talking about when I made that post. I didn't know the first thing about socionics then, though I'm no expert now. There is no way my mom is ESE! My grandma, on the other hand....

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    Whoa, Fe leading turned into Se all of a sudden. Let's talk about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    lol @ you remembering and somehow digging up that very, very old post.

    I've been typing my mom as SEE for a long time now. I had no clue what I was talking about when I made that post. I didn't know the first thing about socionics then, though I'm no expert now. There is no way my mom is ESE! My grandma, on the other hand....
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This has been my experience as well and I think it makes sense. It is funny to see the difference in emphasis between SEEs and SLEs though. That whole Fi thing! I often get annoyed with how my mom (SEE) talks to or about an SLE friend. I know she doesn't mean any harm but she'll often say things that seem irrelevant to me. He doesn't ever seem bothered by it though. But to me it looks like she's judging him. I'd definitely say he's the more cool and collected and less impulsive of the two.
    This is interesting you pointed that out, Deante, because when she made that post, I wasn't exactly sure what to make of it. Tbh it actually kind of sounded more ESE than SEE, only because (IME at least) SEEs don't usually care enough to make these judgments and such of other people; and if they do, it's usually in a very direct and relevant form. On the other hand, ESEs seem to have an uncanny penchant for making assumptions about peoples' feelings, and what they do or do not need to do in accordance with them.

    Just saying. The vindictive moralists seem to be the alpha/delta rationals, more so. I believe this is because of two things. With the INxjs, they are focused more on the potentials of what they think things should be (Ne+IJ temperament, which revolves around defining things properly, more or less), but are averse to any real, direct displays (Se polr), whilst trusting their internal "systems" of things. So, there is a passive element here, but also a sternness. The justification for the trait in ESxjs is similar: they are assessing how reality should be from an explicit experiential context (Si+EJ temperament), and are very averse to any displays of "internal" processes that can be utilized (Ni polr), more often than not deeming them "random" claims and such.

    Now, consider aforementioned thing, in light of the tendency to be aggressive, cavalier, etc., and having a stabilizing force to center you. I think it is clear that this relates more to ESxj--INxj duality than any ESxp--INxp duality.
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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    This is interesting you pointed that out, Deante, because when she made that post, I wasn't exactly sure what to make of it. Tbh it actually kind of sounded more ESE than SEE, only because (IME at least) SEEs don't usually care enough to make these judgments and such of other people; and if they do, it's usually in a very direct and relevant form. On the other hand, ESEs seem to have an uncanny penchant for making assumptions about peoples' feelings, and what they do or do not need to do in accordance with them.
    They care when it has to do with their only child who they are overprotective over and oversensitive about anything that happens or could happen to her (me). And the judgements are indeed very direct. That's how my mom is. She'll tell you what she thinks right as she's thinking it. No beating around the bush. What I meant by irrelevant "to me" is that they are things that don't have much importance to me. So maybe insignificant is a better word.

    BTW, my mom likes this guy, it's just obvious that some things she finds important are insignificant to him (and me) and vice versa. She'll just come out and say stuff though, like "if you cared about her you would've gone to her doctor appointment with her." She's usually only half-serious when she makes comments like that, but after a while it just starts to annoy me. A lot of this is more related to being a mom than anything else though.

    Eh whatever, I know she's SEE. She's one of the few people whose type I don't doubt.

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    smccosker's Avatar
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    In my personal experience i find that the "intuitive" future minded thinkers are helpful because i often (almost always) act impsulively and can forget to consider the consequences of my action. I can restrain myself if I know i have to, but im not always sure when to and not to. So I'm either doing (or trying) to do 3 things at once or I'm paralyzed thinking wtf should I do? Living entirely in the moment has a huge downfall there, but in terms of what's around me I;m a hawk. Nothing ever gets past me, problem is although I know "where" everything and everybody is I rarely know wtf is really going on. In large groups I just make alliances with the strongest person or the bully and then i feel safe. Otherwise I see a bunch of retards running around not knowing where the fuck theyre going or what theyre doing.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    what type are you?
    SLE Se subtype seems to be the general concensus (strrng, niffweed, numbers, some other people i don't remember.)

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    smccosker's Avatar
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    Another thing, most people I encounter I view them instinctually as "out to get me" and I view their intentions as hostile (this causes problems between me and others at first) But once i have a good read on them and know theyre "safe" ill open up and be friendly. This process is "intuitive" for me. If i don't open up immediately around someone its usually a good indicator that it would be a bad idea for me to associate myself with this person.

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