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Thread: Repost of "Discussing INFj clusters" by Smilingeyes

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    Default Repost of "Discussing INFj clusters" by Smilingeyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    This thread is for discussion of various types of INFjs. There are various traits that are typical of some INFjs but not present in all of them. There are some beliefs, philosophies, attitudes that are typical but not omnipresent. This thread is for discussion of subdivisions between different kinds of INFjs, including but not restricted to subtype discussion. Whatever material I consider substantial and arising from this thread, I intend to collect in a separate thread in an edited form. I would ask people participating in this thread to restrict themselves to discussion of real and actual people that they are very certain of having INFj type and behaviour that is representative of the functions Fi and Ne. Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm not quite sure how to go about this in the best possible way, but I'm going to make a start. To me, personally, the most obvious celebrity INFj is Gwyneth Paltrow. In my opinion she has several habits and attitudes that are connected to being INFj, so many actually that I have to wonder what I would describe as her ... personal focus. There are several things that she does and has associated with that are stereotypically INFj. But I'd suggest her as a particularly stereotypical INFj ... blogger. Info from wikipedia: Paltrow, the daughter of an actress, and a film and television director, writer, and producer. Later she briefly studied art history at the University of California, Santa Barbara, before discontinuing her degree and committing herself to acting. She is an "adopted daughter" of Talavera de la Reina (Spain), where at age 15 she spent a month as an exchange student and learned some Spanish.[7][8] Then in 1996 she starred in Emma, where she received strongly positive critical acclaim, particularly in the UK for her impressive English accent, as well as in Europe and Asia. Paltrow also won the award for Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Leading Role from the Screen Actors Guild.[12] Later that year, Paltrow won the Academy Award for Best Actress.[11] Until recently, despite a relatively low-profile, she has maintained a steady film career with a few critically acclaimed film roles. Audiences got their first taste of Paltrow's singing ability with the 2000 release of Duets. In an interview with The Guardian, Paltrow admitted that she divided her career into those movies she did for love and those films she did for money: The Royal Tenenbaums, Proof, and Sylvia fell into the former category, while View from the Top and Shallow Hal were in the latter.[4] Since winning the Oscar for Shakespeare in Love, Paltrow's film success has been less noteworthy.[13] She said she was unequipped to cope with the pressure, leading her to make several bad movie choices,[14] agreeing with peers who believe the win is a curse.[15] She has also made several cameo roles, such as her appearance in the Brittany Murphy film Love and Other Disasters, and several smaller roles, such as her role in Running With Scissors and Infamous, in which she sang Cole Porter's "What Is This Thing Called Love?". In 2008, she appeared in Iron Man as Pepper Potts, her first blockbuster film in several years. Paltrow told an interviewer that initially she was hesitant to appear in a big blockbuster film, but that she was won over by Robert Downey Jr., the star of the film, and director Jon Favreau. Paltrow recalled a conversation with Downey Jr., saying:[16] “ Robert called me and he said, 'This is gonna be fun, and this is gonna be good.' And then he said to me, 'Don't you want to be in a movie that people see?' And I was like, 'Whoa! What would that feel like?' And he's right. Moviemaking is not supposed to be a masturbatory exercise; it's supposed to be shared by other people. ” In May 2005, Paltrow became the new face of Estée Lauder's Pleasures perfume. She appeared in Chicago on August 17, 2007, to sign bottles of the perfume, and on July 8, 2008, she promoted Lauder's Sensuous perfume in New York along with the company's three other spokesmodels.[17] Estée Lauder donates a minimum of $500,000 of sales of items from the 'Pleasures Gwyneth Paltrow' collection to breast cancer research.[18] Paltrow serves on the board of the Robin Hood Foundation, a charitable organization which attempts to alleviate problems caused by poverty in New York City. In 2006 she became the new face for Bean Pole International, a Korean fashion brand. She starred along with actor Daniel Henney in several commercial films. In October 2007, Paltrow signed up for a PBS television series Spain... on the road Again with Mario Batali that showcases the food and culture of Spain.[19] In September 2008, she launched a weekly online upscale lifestyle newsletter, Goop, encouraging readers to 'nourish the inner aspect'. Each week, the newsletter focuses on an action: Make, Go, Get, Do, Be, and See. It was ridiculed by a number of news outlets, including E-Online[20], The Independent[21], and the UK's Daily Mirror[22]. The actress has said she is very proud of having Jewish ancestry and has attributed some of her father's warmth to his Jewish heritage:[24] “ My father had that incredible Jewish warmth, really bolstering us [his children] all the time. And when you're nine years old and you're hearing that you are the best person, it gets in there, and you think, 'OK, I'm not going to be afraid to try things, because I'm always loved no matter what.' That kills me, when I think about it. It totally breaks my heart, how lucky I am. ” Paltrow had a much-publicized romance and engagement to Brad Pitt whom she dated from 1995 to 1997.[25] She once stated that she regretted breaking up with Pitt, saying in an interview with Diane Sawyer that she wished Pitt well and could not believe he was with her when she was "such a mess".[26] They were together for over three years. She has been linked romantically with Ben Affleck, Luke Wilson, Chris Heinz, and Robert Sean Leonard. On turning 30, she said "I had the most incredible birthday weekend until my dad died on me like six days later," said Paltrow, who turned 30 on September 27, 2002. "It's been, in many ways, the worst year of my life and will continue to be."[24] On December 5, 2003, she married Chris Martin of the British rock group Coldplay in a secret wedding ceremony in Southern California at a hotel; she had met him backstage at a concert.[27] Paltrow gave birth to their first child, a daughter named Apple Blythe Alison Martin, five months later, on May 14, 2004, in London. One of Chris Martin's band associates already had a daughter named Apple and Gwyneth and Chris asked their friend if they could 'borrow' the same name for their daughter. Gwyneth further explained the unusual first name on Oprah, saying:[28] “ It sounded so sweet and it conjured such a lovely picture for me – you know, apples are so sweet and they're wholesome and it's biblical – and I just thought it sounded so lovely and … clean! And I just thought, "Perfect!" ” In January 2006, Paltrow announced that, "Since my daughter came along, I've not worked much through choice. And with another baby on its way, I don't think I will be doing a lot for the next year or so either."[30] In May 2005, she publicly announced that she had suffered from depression after the death of her father. She practices yoga daily, and follows a macrobiotic diet, although she told People in 2005 that, "I'm not as stringent as I was in the past. Now I'll have cheese once in a while or white flour, but I still believe in whole grains and no sugar."[32] Paltrow earned the enmity of Sharon Stone due to her performance as Stone in a Saturday Night Live skit that poked fun at Stone and her then-husband, Phil Bronstein.[33] Paltrow is good friends with Madonna,[34] with whom she shares a personal trainer,[27] and fashion designer Valentino. Steven Spielberg is a close family friend. She was best friends with Winona Ryder until her breakup with Ben Affleck. In the May 2008 issue of Vogue, Paltrow revealed that she suffered from post-partum depression after giving birth to her second child, Moses. She stated that she felt "out of her body", "disconnected, "down" and "pessimistic”.[40] In a 2007 interview, Paltrow explained that she wasn't sure if she wanted more children. "My husband really wants to adopt," she told the interviewer, "So I don't know; I'm sort of open for anything."[41] ............ So, what we have here are several "buzz words" that I've learned to connect to INFjs. -Family/tradition -Religion (in her case a minor track) -Art (acting, art history and singing for her) -Willingness to try new things... when they are put in front of her -Health, a focus on seeking a lifestyle that is stable and possible to continue for a long time. -Charity -Large network of friends -Blogging/storytelling (check out goop.com, it's pretty much a blog about her life. To me, it's just lovely reading in general) Some excerpts: "In 1998, I was filming The Talented Mr. Ripley in Ischia, a little island off the coast of Naples in Italy. I got a call that changed my life. My father had been diagnosed with throat cancer, and it was stage four. Although he underwent treatment and survived for another four years, I watched his health deteriorate slowly until his death in 2002. During this time I began to read about Eastern medicine and the body’s capacity to heal itself. I tried to get my father on board -- with mixed results. He loved acupuncture but hated macrobiotic food, which he likened to “biting into The New York Times.” " Both personal and general interest, seeking to be helpful. "I think we all begin the new year with thoughts of things we would like to improve, learn, be more disciplined about, cut out of our diets. In January 2007 I decided I’d had enough of my saddlebags and post-pregnancy Shar-Pei-like stomach. I met an incredible woman who changed my life. Her name is Tracy Anderson. She is a dancer, a trainer, an "organic plastic surgeon" as my friend Julia calls her. Her program works but you have to work it. For real. Right now she is on tour with Madonna so I do a lot of video chat with her and I do her DVDs. Every once in a while she sends me a little movie to change something up. She sent me this one for the New Year's butt. It’s really hard. But do it like she says to do it and I swear that in ten days you will see your butt change shape. I do it with 1 lb. ankle weights and then I do her Dance Aerobics DVD. Some days I hate it, some days I love it, but above all, I stick with it. The sticktoitivness is what it is all about." Function-wise I think she shows enormous amounts of both Fi and Ne. I think she doesn't have a strong subtype. Her "blog"/newsletter is mostly a big issue because she's a celebrity willing to offer something personal to the general public without appearing to get anything in return, except publicity I guess, and not all of that has been good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Contrast the above with another INFj: Kathryn Felicia Day[1] (born June 28, 1979 in Huntsville, Alabama) is an American actress, known for her work as "Vi" on TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer and for parts in movies such as Bring It On Again and June, as well as the Internet musical Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. She is also the star, script writer and producer of the YouTube-based web series The Guild, which won the Greenlight Award for Best Original Digital Series Production at the South by Southwest festivals,[2] the YouTube Video Award for Best Series,[3] and the Yahoo! Video Award for Best Series. [4] In September 2008, TV Week included her in their list of Top 10 Web Video Creators.[5] [edit] Personal life Her father was a United States Air Force doctor.[6] Day was home-schooled throughout her childhood and teenage years as her family moved from place to place throughout the South.[6] Day's acting career began at the age of 7 when she starred as "Scout" in a local production of To Kill a Mockingbird.[6] Day has also studied ballet professionally and has performed at concerts and competitions nationwide. She is an accomplished violinist as well.[6] [edit] Education Going straight from home-schooling to college at an early age, Day chose to double major in mathematics and violin performance at the University of Texas at Austin,[7][8] despite having been accepted to the Juilliard School of Music. She graduated with the highest honors, having a 4.0 GPA. She was also the student speaker at her department's convocation. [edit] Career After graduation, Day moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in acting. She landed several roles in various short and independent films, as well as commercials and guest spots on television shows, including Undeclared and Maybe It's Me. These parts propelled her to larger roles: a part in the film Bring It On Again, the starring role in June, and a recurring guest spot as potential Slayer Vi on television's Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She is the creator, writer, and star of The Guild, a web series currently in its second season. The first season was primarily hosted on YouTube which garnered it millions of views.[9] Its second season was moved to MSN Video as the channel became a producing partner on the show, allowing Day, her cast, and her crew to receive financial remuneration for their work. In July 2008, Day starred as Penny in the three-part web based musical Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog (created by Joss Whedon, who also created Buffy the Vampire Slayer).[10] Day was featured as a patient in the episode "Not Cancer" of the medical drama House,[11] and most recently, featured in a series of commercials for Sears. ----------------------------- Felicia day is functionally speaking a lot more Ne than Gwyneth. I have to confront the possibility that Felicia might be better listed as an INTj, but in my current opinion her social side is strong enough that she should be considered an INFj. Her web page had at least at one point an address for gay rights. That sort of works as an example of charity work. She's an actress and a blogger the way Gwyneth is, but Felicia is much less social, much more spacy than Gwyneth. She's also a lot more pushy, extrovert and quite a nerd. As a person she seems less nice, less genuine, significantly more commanding. Her smile seems like a social smile instead of a real smile. What I see in her is someone who is capable of being social, while using sociability pretty much as a tool toward her own personal ends. She was capable of mobilizing a substantial number of people to create the webisode thing Theguild while working on a shoe-string budget. I consider this an impressive social feat. So in my opinion, Felicia shows well the capability of the INFj to divert to an individualistic path while maintaining a social network. The ability to follow their dreams and to perform at a high level in things that matter to them personally, while still not being a career-minded individual in any shape or form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops
    I considered discussing some celebrity INFj's. I thought just now i'd make a short post about an INFj with whom I am friends with. It still fits as I am sure of his type, but whether it can be "included" being unable to be validated from other sources, not being a celebrity, may put some "doubt" on it? Still, I think it's useful to include those that we know personally also. General points: Family orientated. Looks after his mother, always takes time to visit, spend time, doesn't see it as putting himself out at all. Brother: his brother has a slight learning difficulty, a condition I am not totally sure off, suffice it to say that he's in some sort of mental retardation zone of an IQ being below normal for general society interactions. INFj makes special effort of including his brother in his own social life, often resulting in us babysitting him from time to time - if he's drank too much. INFj very loyal to him and never gives up on him, always attempting to encourage him to find another job (is never able to hold them down, even "simple" jobs), giving him tips on behavioural interaction in a positive way. Education: Studied engineering at university, graduated, moved into programming. Currently works as a programmer. Health: Very health concious, road bike cyclist. Pays attention to what he eats, is quite selective about it. Doesn't eat from certain supermarkets (even though they are fine) is quite attentive to what he eats, a "picky" eater. Morphology: Light boned, low body fat, a typical "ectomorph" Interactions: Generally very well liked, is able to mingle with just about everyone, quiet but still fits in. Has a wide range of friends which he is able to keep in contact with even though he may not see them so much. Friendship: A "good friend", loyal, supportive, understanding. General points (continued): Enjoys doing new things when they are presented to him. Unassuming. Typically calm. Suprisingly competitive ("suprising" perhaps, in the context of overall persona), likes to win, although can have a tendency to back out when he hasn't been able to "engineer" it into a winning situation, rather than slog it out. This applies to anything from chess, pool, bowling, and to a certain extent cycling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Thanks Cyclops. ... A third INFj woman. This one from the Fi end of the spectrum. Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta For over 45 years she ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying, while guiding the Missionaries of Charity's expansion, first throughout India and then in other countries. By the 1970s she had become internationally famed as a humanitarian and advocate for the poor and helpless, due in part to a documentary, and book, Something Beautiful for God by Malcolm Muggeridge. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979 and India's highest civilian honor, the Bharat Ratna, in 1980 for her humanitarian work. Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity continued to expand, and at the time of her death it was operating 610 missions in 123 countries, including hospices and homes for people with HIV/AIDS, leprosy and tuberculosis, soup kitchens, children's and family counseling programs, orphanages, and schools. She has been praised by many individuals, governments and organizations; however, she has also faced a diverse range of criticism. These include objections by various individuals, including Christopher Hitchens, Michael Parenti, Aroup Chatterjee, Vishva Hindu Parishad, against the proselytizing focus of her work; this included baptisms of the dying, a strong anti-abortion stance, and a belief in the spiritual goodness of poverty. Several medical journals also criticised the standard of medical care in her hospices and concerns were raised about the opaque nature in which donated money was spent. After her father's death, her mother raised her as a Roman Catholic. According to a biography by Joan Graff Clucas, in her early years Agnes was fascinated by stories of the lives of missionaries and their service, and by age 12 was convinced that she should commit herself to a religious life.[10] She left home at age 18 to join the Sisters of Loreto as a missionary. She never again saw her mother or sister.[11] She took her solemn vows on May 14, 1937, while serving as a teacher at the Loreto convent school in eastern Calcutta.[15][16] Although Teresa enjoyed teaching at the school, she was increasingly disturbed by the poverty surrounding her in Calcutta.[17] On September 10, 1946, Teresa experienced what she later described as "the call within the call" while traveling to the Loreto convent in Darjeeling from Calcutta for her annual retreat. "I was to leave the convent and help the poor while living among them. It was an order. To fail would have been to break the faith."[19] Teresa wrote in her diary that her first year was fraught with difficulties. She had no income and had to resort to begging for food and supplies. Teresa experienced doubt, loneliness and the temptation to return to the comfort of convent life during these early months. She wrote in her diary: €œ Our Lord wants me to be a free nun covered with the poverty of the cross. Today I learned a good lesson. The poverty of the poor must be so hard for them. While looking for a home I walked and walked till my arms and legs ached. I thought how much they must ache in body and soul, looking for a home, food and health. Then the comfort of Loreto [her former order] came to tempt me. 'You have only to say the word and all that will be yours again,' the Tempter kept on saying ... Of free choice, my God, and out of love for you, I desire to remain and do whatever be your Holy will in my regard. I did not let a single tear come.[24] € Teresa received Vatican permission on October 7, 1950 to start the diocesan congregation that would become the Missionaries of Charity.[25] Its mission was to care for, in her own words, "the hungry, the naked, the homeless, the crippled, the blind, the lepers, all those people who feel unwanted, unloved, uncared for throughout society, people that have become a burden to the society and are shunned by everyone." It began as a small order with 13 members in Calcutta; today it has more than 4,000 nuns running orphanages, AIDS hospices, and charity centers worldwide, and caring for refugees, the blind, disabled, aged, alcoholics, the poor and homeless, and victims of floods, epidemics, and famine.[26] In 1952 Mother Teresa opened the first Home for the Dying in space made available by the City of Calcutta. With the help of Indian officials she converted an abandoned Hindu temple into the Kalighat Home for the Dying, a free hospice for the poor. She renamed it Kalighat, the Home of the Pure Heart (Nirmal Hriday).[27] Those brought to the home received medical attention and were afforded the opportunity to die with dignity, according to the rituals of their faith; Muslims were read the Quran, Hindus received water from the Ganges, and Catholics received the Last Rites.[28] "A beautiful death," she said, "is for people who lived like animals to die like angels€”loved and wanted."[28] As the Missionaries of Charity took in increasing numbers of lost children, Mother Teresa felt the need to create a home for them. In 1955 she opened the Nirmala Shishu Bhavan, the Children's Home of the Immaculate Heart, as a haven for orphans and homeless youth.[30] Her philosophy and implementation have faced some criticism. While noting how little evidence Mother Teresa's critics were able to find against her, David Scott wrote that Mother Teresa limited herself to keeping people alive rather than tackling poverty itself.[33] She has also been criticized for her view on suffering: according to an article in the Alberta Report, she felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus.[34] The quality of care offered to terminally ill patients in the Homes for the Dying has been criticised in the medical press, notably The Lancet and the British Medical Journal, which reported the reuse of hypodermic needles, poor living conditions, including the use of cold baths for all patients, and an anti-materialist approach that precluded the use of systematic diagnosis.[35] The Missionaries of Charity Brothers was founded in 1963, and a contemplative branch of the Sisters followed in 1976. Lay Catholics and non-Catholics were enrolled in the Co-Workers of Mother Teresa, the Sick and Suffering Co-Workers, and the Lay Missionaries of Charity. In answer to the requests of many priests, in 1981 Mother Teresa also began the Corpus Christi Movement for Priests,[36] and in 1984 founded with Fr. Joseph Langford the Missionaries of Charity Fathers[37] to combine the vocational aims of the Missionaries of Charity with the resources of the ministerial priesthood. By 2007 the Missionaries of Charity numbered approximately 450 brothers and 5,000 nuns worldwide, operating 600 missions, schools and shelters in 120 countries.[38] International charity In 1982, at the height of the Siege of Beirut, Mother Teresa rescued 37 children trapped in a front line hospital by brokering a temporary cease-fire between the Israeli army and Palestinian guerrillas.[39] Accompanied by Red Cross workers, she traveled through the war zone to the devastated hospital to evacuate the young patients.[40] Additionally, the sources of some donations accepted have been criticized. Mother Teresa accepted donations from the autocratic and corrupt Duvalier family in Haiti, and openly praised them. She also accepted 1.4 million dollars from Charles Keating, involved in the fraud and corruption scheme known as the Keating Five scandal, and supported him before and after his arrest. The Deputy District Attorney for Los Angeles, Paul Turley, wrote to Mother Teresa asking her to return the donated money to the people Keating had stolen from, one of whom was "a poor carpenter". The donated money was not accounted for, and Turley did not receive a reply. [47] Chatterjee blames Mother Teresa for promoting a negative image of his home city.[50] Her presence and profile grated in parts of the Indian political world, as she often opposed the Hindu Right. "When Mother Teresa received the prize, she was asked, "What can we do to promote world peace?" She answered "Go home and love your family." Building on this theme in her Nobel Lecture, she said: "Around the world, not only in the poor countries, but I found the poverty of the West so much more difficult to remove. When I pick up a person from the street, hungry, I give him a plate of rice, a piece of bread, I have satisfied. I have removed that hunger. But a person that is shut out, that feels unwanted, unloved, terrified, the person that has been thrown out from society€”that poverty is so hurtable [sic] and so much, and I find that very difficult." More specifically, she singled out abortion as 'the greatest destroyer of peace in the world'.[63]" Her death was mourned in both secular and religious communities. In tribute, Nawaz Sharif, the Prime Minister of Pakistan said that she was "a rare and unique individual who lived long for higher purposes. Her life-long devotion to the care of the poor, the sick, and the disadvantaged was one of the highest examples of service to our humanity."[66] The former U.N. Secretary-General Javier Pérez de Cuéllar said: "She is the United Nations. She is peace in the world."[66] Spiritual life Analyzing her deeds and achievements, John Paul II asked: "Where did Mother Teresa find the strength and perseverance to place herself completely at the service of others? She found it in prayer and in the silent contemplation of Jesus Christ, his Holy Face, his Sacred Heart."[67] Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly fifty years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever,"[68]"neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk.[68] Mother Teresa expressed grave doubts about God's existence and pain over her lack of faith: €œ Where is my faith? Even deep down ... there is nothing but emptiness and darkness ... If there be God€”please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul ... How painful is this unknown pain€”I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, ... What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true.[69] € ----------- She's the poster child for the INFj religious stance. Social, charitable, accepting religion. A willingness to be open to all people. She was in the first a teacher, in the second a charity worker, doctrine came a distant third. She showed immense personal strength while also showing great vulnerability. She followed a hard to distinguish dream. She was willing to embrace anyone, no matter how sick in body, mind or soul. She was mainly criticized for two reasons 1. political ones and 2. that she wasn't as effective as she should have been.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Apologies for posting only female examples. I just have more experience with such so its easier to start. The next example I have is a personal acquaintance, formerly very close to me. Let's call her Ann Fields. She was the daughter of a restaurateur, studied in an arts high school. Moved abroad for college and moved in with a local boyfriend. Studied cinema and linguistics with very good grades. Returned home after studies and just hung around for a year or two, apparently mostly staring at walls, until moving in with another man and restarting studies to become a kindergarten teacher. She lacked direction in her life and quickly responded to any attention by sort of hanging around and trying passively to form a closer relationship. Her "motto" was to laugh awkwardly, start singing out of tune and say something like "I'm just like this." Often times this was followed by some form of self-chastisement. She was famous for cheating repeatedly and being incapable of accepting any signs of real affection from others. When angsty or negative about something she growled. To me, she's an example of a "lost INFj", an INFj without real structure to guide her Fi. Functionwise she was more Ne though. She would have wanted to have someone come and fix her life, but she was so inexpressive about her needs and lost that to my knowledge none of her relationships were particularly succesfull. She's a strong example of the childish and self-destructive traits that INFjs have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Next INFj, another one of my own friends. I'll call him Dan Touchy. He was a friend in high school. He was somewhat popular, quite nerdy, very open to people and hung out with an ISTp jock and a really awkward ENFp. He was a gospel musician and particularly famous for his intentionally bad jokes and puns. I competed with him in the field of humour and usually overdid him in that area. To me it was competition, to him it was about sharing an experience. We had a healthy, good, but just a tad distant relationship, partly because our competition on humour ruined quite a few course grades for him. He actually needed to listen to the teacher, I didn't. He spent a year as a foreign exchange student in France. Since then he's become an engineer and has his own business making web pages. His specialty is interactive technology and designing easy to access pages. He was always open, always good-humoured. His intentionally bad comedy and reasonably good guitar-playing were attempts to reach out to people while still doing his own thing. I think he was very Fi as INFjs go. He was all about making himself easy to access for people. It's not a particularly vivid description, but since he's the first male INFj I can describe in any depth I'm including him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Great stuff Smilex. I'll read it when I've time later. Wasn't Mother Teresa widely typed as INFp though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    That's what I wanted to ask. What makes you think Mother Teresa is EII?
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    The Guild is pretty frigging sweet. I think the show and she are alphas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Great stuff Smilex. I'll read it when I've time later. Wasn't Mother Teresa widely typed as INFp though?
    Thx. Ok, about Teresa and her INFxness. I'm not sure what you're referring to with the 'widely typed as INFp'. Sure when I google Teresa AND INFP I get 11300 results and I only get 9890 for Teresa AND INFJ. But I think it's fairly obvious that most of those are MBTI typings. As for what she's famous for, the concept of deciding to just go away to another country, leave your former life behind and dedicate your life to serving the weakest members of the society in a way that has little chance of actually resulting in anything great or glorious is so stereotypically delta and so stereotypically judging and rational that ... well... I'm just baffled by how anyone could get the idea that Teresa was INFp. I'm not claiming that she wasn't INFp for a certainty, I'm just really befuddled about why anyone would think so. There's nothing fun about anything she did. She was a powerful personality who felt affinity for the weak. (Not particularly INFpish traits). Her form of religion was social and ethical instead of mythical. She was a powerful actor in her own right. Frankly if I chose another type for her it would be ISFj and certainly not any kind of a 'victim' type. She displayed disinterest toward political circumstances and political attitudes toward her work, she displayed typical 'static' attitudes toward duty and her own ability to act and cause things to happen. She has been widely criticized mainly for ignoring beta-kind of things like ignoring the larger, political aspects of whatever and only caring about her own cause. So I'm having trouble seeing anything INFpish in her. But if anyone can help me see how she is INFp or something else, I'll thank them for it. As for Felicia Day being Alpha? I agree that she's very Ne, but if you ask yourself the question "Is she INFj or INTj?" You'll find her to be a bubbly, excitable, fussy person. That's not INTj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    The next one is a reprisal of a part of my thread in the articles section "analysis of a closed social system or somesuch". I introduce this because it shows an example of an INFj attached to economic matters, showing the ... realistic side of the INFj sociability and how they can function in their duals' environment. Jennifer Wallen Her university subjects were public relations and political science. (Mostly that 'smells' like strong ethical function) She was member of the university golf team (Sport with slow, individual pace. Member of, so not particularly gifted (she wasn't the champion of anything), otoh, not particularly averse to team sport undertakings) Former president of her local Future Farmers of America Association. (Willing to perform social duties? This could be something major for all I know, but this seems more like one of those jobs that somebody gets shafted with.) She enjoys riding horses, camping and even earned her first dollar showing sheep. (Likes animals) Her own real estate company called "Hot Realty." (That could be a reference to sexuality, but when one witnesses her rural style, it seems more like a joke.) Opened her second business "Off the Hook Sushi & Martini Bar." Proving itself to be a hip and trendy local spot to dine on delicious cuisine, she and her partners plan to open two more restaurants in the next year. (Who talks about having partners in Apprentice bios? Cares about being hip and trendy?) Jennifer is also the proud "Mommy" of two children. (Kids important) Her idea of success: I will consider myself "a success" when I have not only achieved my current business and personal goals but have exceeded them. (If one wants to analyze this at all, this would be 'process'-'positive' in my opinion, the idea of continuous growth rather than a state of happiness) Her leadership style 1. The first is "visionary" - being able to see possibilities and inspire others. (Uh, the definition of Ne) 2. The second is "building relationships" - being a leader requires followers, which requires building trust and loyalty with coworkers. (The definition of Fi) 3. The third is "manager of execution" - to put it in simple words, an administrator who is skilled in getting things done, able to get results, and who accomplishes objectives. ( This actually seems more like Te+Si without actually claiming these qualities as her own.) Most important quality to have in order to succeed in life and why? Faith. Every time I take a new risk or a new challenge, I say, "I am constantly taking leaps of faith." I have faith that I won't fail, and if I do, I have faith that I will pick myself up again. You can't succeed unless you try. Take the leap! (Fi+Ne) I am a college graduate, and I am very thankful that I had the opportunity to grow and learn at a wonderful university. However, my "real-world experiences" have taught me more than I ever could or would have learned in college. (Believes in her own experience, though she's not above learning more, as mentioned before.) She claims to have been inspired by the previous apprentices, singles out Kendra. The other two are ESTp and INFp, so picking Kendra above them could signal delta. I'm not equally sure about Kendra's own type because she's got a sort of 'under the radar' demeanor. I've called her INFp too at one point but I have strong doubts about that typing. ) Her lesson from previous seasons has been: That sometimes in the boardroom it is better to not talk until spoken to or called upon. (Seems quite a correct approximation from her point of view. Though I have no idea why she'd be applying for the race anyway. Possibly one of her leaps of faith?) I think it should be mentioned that she says she's a single mom of two during the interview. Later on in another connection it becomes known that she's married again and talks a lot about her husband, thinks the person is very important to her. About her favorite tv shows, what strikes me as curious is the mention of Fear Factor. I do know that sometimes INFjs have a curious liking for the morbid, but I still wonder about this in connection to her otherwise generally 'cookie-mom' image. INFjs are in many ways really strong people, so I'm not saying I wouldn't think they couldn't handle this kind of shows. But it doesn't go with the normal stereotype that betas are the ones that like all the gross stuff. What are your favorite movies? I will always love the classic "chick flicks" - Pretty Woman and Steel Magnolias. I will always remember Karate Kid Part One and Can't By Me Love. I will always buy tickets to see a move made from one of John Grisham's novels. Also, movies that make me laugh with actors Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson. (Mostly that screams delta, though with elements of both gamma and alpha.) Her later businesses, a website that rides on her reputation as a former apprentice participant and what appears to be an email-scam both talk prominently of her new husband. (If this is something that has been strongly pushed by said husband, or whether this should be filed under her becoming more alpha, I don't know. Either way, both projects seem to have been unpromising and actually tell of quite weak personal business skills.) "
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    As for what she's famous for, the concept of deciding to just go away to another country, leave your former life behind and dedicate your life to serving the weakest members of the society in a way that has little chance of actually resulting in anything great or glorious is so stereotypically delta and so stereotypically judging and rational that ...
    Perhaps those were her primary/underlying motives? But I'm just speculating. IXFj is easily conceivable from humanitarian and religious aspects, you're right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Here's a problem I'm having. i know certain types of INFjs, but I'm having trouble being convinced that some other people typed as INFjs actually are. Not that I necessarily have other valid typings for these people, but because I have trouble seeing that "yes indeed, they really are INFjs". This is restricting my ability to contribute with a variety of "different but certain" INFjs. So I'm really appreciating Cyclops's contribution here, as an explanation of how someone they know can be INFj. I mean... as major point for this thread is to find... different kinds of INFjs. *shrug*.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Thanks Cyclops. ... A third INFj woman. This one from the Fi end of the spectrum. Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta ttle evidence Mother Teresa's critics were able to find against her, David Scott wrote that Mother Teresa limited herself to keeping people alive rather than tackling poverty itself.[33] She has also been criticized for her view on suffering: according to an article in the Alberta Report, she felt that suffering would bring people closer to Jesus.[34] The quality of care offered to terminally ill patients in the Homes for the Dying has been criticised in the medical press, notably The Lancet and the British Medical Journal, which reported the reuse of hypodermic needles, poor living conditions, including the use of cold baths for all patients, and an anti-materialist approach that precluded the use of systematic diagnosis.[35] International charity In 1982, at the height of the Siege of Beirut, Mother Teresa rescued 37 children trapped in a front line hospital by brokering a temporary cease-fire between the Israeli army and Palestinian guerrillas.[39] Accompanied by Red Cross workers, she traveled through the war zone to the devastated hospital to evacuate the young patients.[40] Additionally, the sources of some donations accepted have been criticized. Mother Teresa accepted donations from the autocratic and corrupt Duvalier family in Haiti, and openly praised them. She also accepted 1.4 million dollars from Charles Keating, involved in the fraud and corruption scheme known as the Keating Five scandal, and supported him before and after his arrest. The Deputy District Attorney for Los Angeles, Paul Turley, wrote to Mother Teresa asking her to return the donated money to the people Keating had stolen from, one of whom was "a poor carpenter". The donated money was not accounted for, and Turley did not receive a reply. [47] Chatterjee blames Mother Teresa for promoting a negative image of his home city.[50] Her presence and profile grated in parts of the Indian political world, as she often opposed the Hindu Right. "When Mother Teresa received the prize, she was asked, "What can we do to promote world peace?" She answered "Go home and love your family." Building on this theme in her Nobel Lecture, she said: "Around the world, not only in the poor countries, but I found the poverty of the West so much more difficult to remove. When I pick up a person from the street, hungry, I give him a plate of rice, a piece of bread, I have satisfied. I have removed that hunger. But a person that is shut out, that feels unwanted, unloved, terrified, the person that has been thrown out from society€”that poverty is so hurtable [sic] and so much, and I find that very difficult." More specifically, she singled out abortion as 'the greatest destroyer of peace in the world'.[63]" Spiritual life Analyzing her deeds and achievements, John Paul II asked: "Where did Mother Teresa find the strength and perseverance to place herself completely at the service of others? She found it in prayer and in the silent contemplation of Jesus Christ, his Holy Face, his Sacred Heart."[67] Privately, Mother Teresa experienced doubts and struggles over her religious beliefs which lasted nearly fifty years until the end of her life, during which "she felt no presence of God whatsoever,"[68]"neither in her heart or in the eucharist" as put by her postulator Rev. Brian Kolodiejchuk.[68] Mother Teresa expressed grave doubts about God's existence and pain over her lack of faith: €œ Where is my faith? Even deep down ... there is nothing but emptiness and darkness ... If there be God€”please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul ... How painful is this unknown pain€”I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, ... What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true.[69] € -----------
    I think she was probably ISFj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    As for Felicia Day being Alpha? I agree that she's very Ne, but if you ask yourself the question "Is she INFj or INTj?" You'll find her to be a bubbly, excitable, fussy person. That's not INTj.
    Oh, I don't think she's INTj. I favor ISFp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm sort of tiring of this "whack the mole" thing. People are certain types whether me or you or anyone thinks whatever. If this is supposed to be a discussion, would you people please mind making a case for yourself instead of just shouting out random types? I'm not going to start making a detailed response for every person in this thread why they shouldn't be considered whatever type someone happens to be thinking when they wake up and decide to make a post. If this is supposed to be a discussion, how about actually contributing instead of forming a peanut gallery? .... On a completely different note, there was a suggestion that Eunice should be included here. I don't really know Eunice, it would be great if she decided to tell something of herself here, that lacking it would be great if someone who actually knew something about her would tell something about her here. ... Actually, it would be great if the other INFjs that are reading this thread would write something about themselves too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm sort of tiring of this "whack the mole" thing. People are certain types whether me or you or anyone thinks whatever. If this is supposed to be a discussion, would you people please mind making a case for yourself instead of just shouting out random types? I'm not going to start making a detailed response for every person in this thread why they shouldn't be considered whatever type someone happens to be thinking when they wake up and decide to make a post. If this is supposed to be a discussion, how about actually contributing instead of forming a peanut gallery?
    Sure, I understand. Also, thanks for assuming my reasoning is completely arbitrary and meaningless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    I have no time at the moment to really, actually, thoughtfully, deeply contribute here, so I will do some reusing of material myself: 25 Random Things About Me 1. I still have that sticky cover thing on that covers part of my keyboard from when they last replaced the keyboard (and my hard drive) at the Apple Store. 2. I've decided that I wouldn't want to work at the Apple Store, despite the fun technology and the opportunity to be thoroughly geeky and helpful. Way, way too hectic and noisy and crowded. 3. I am directionally challenged. 4. I've never been to Disneyland. 5. I loved playing with wooden blocks when I was little, making patterns with them. My mother says it annoyed her when I'd make especially complex ones right in the middle of the hallway. 6. When I was about 11 or so (or younger?), I read the Two Towers first because I liked the cover. I didn't know it was a trilogy and I had no idea who Aragorn was or why he was running, but I thought Treebeard was pretty cool. 7. I've worked a solid 2.25 years of my life - counting the nights, too - at one summer camp. (That's a little less than one tenth of my life.) If you turned that into office hours, it would be somewhere between 6.5 and 7 years. (Which would be a bit less than a fourth of my earthly existence thus far.) 8. Please don't feed me mushrooms. I am anti-fun-guys. 9. My first year of college, my roomies and I would pass notes (and TP rolls) back and forth to our neighbors through the hole in the wall between our showers. 10. I took piano lessons for... more years than I can remember... and I enjoyed it. But you will be the rare person if I ever play anything for you. 11. I have been chased by a young horse who wanted to eat my hair. 12. An invention I'd really like to see made into reality is one of those transporter beam things, so I could very quickly and easily visit people around the world. 13. When I walk through stores, I have a hard time not touching everything. Fabric stores can be especially challenging. 14. My personal environment is probably a better example of the effects of the second law of thermodynamics than many other people's. 15. Related to the above, sometimes I forget to eat breakfast until dinner. 17. I took Latin when I was in middle school. 18. I tried making some shelves once out of scrap wood. For a sculpture. 19. I have set foot in both the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans. The Atlantic didn't feel like an ocean; it felt like bath water - which made me feel a little weird, sharing a bath with so many other people.... *shudder* Under duress, though, I could probably find a way to get used to it. 20. Not counting infancy, my hair has never been shorter than slightly below my shoulders. 21. I own a pair of Chacos. They make me feel cool and athletic and outdoorsy. 22. I have mowed grass with a non-motorized lawn-mower. 23. I once had a rabbit named Willoughby Proudfoot whose name was longer than he and who was just about the cutest little creature ever. RIP, Willers. 24. The most complex thing I've ever sewed was a pair of colorfully striped PJ shorts. Although, if crocheting belongs in the sewing category, then the most complex thing would be a sort of basket thing. 25. My favorite widget on my Mac's dashboard is the Dictionary/Thesaurus. I <3 thesauri. I'm not entirely sure how helpful, if at all, that will be, but it's the best I can do on short notice. Oh, and, hm... do I need to make a case for myself as INFj first?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensi
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    This thread is for discussion of various types of INFjs.
    Have you got pics of say 4 or 8 people you believe are propper representatives of INFjness, then and maybe thenwe can talk and contrast their diffs and sims.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm not going to post pics of my personal relations. And I'm not sure if this pic thing is actually useful, particularly for analysis, but here goes. Ij temperament... Subject to change if someone makes a good case of why they're some other type. Possibly ISFj

    Cate Blanchett


    Sissy Spacek


    Fi Jennifer Wallen


    Mother Teresa


    Flat out INFj Gwyneth Paltrow


    Richard Gere


    Ne Winona Ryder


    Felicia Day


    Young Vincent van Gogh


    Possibly INTj Tig Notaro


    Christina Ricci
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    Last edited by tereg; 02-17-2009 at 12:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Thx. Ok, about Teresa and her INFxness. As for what she's famous for, the concept of deciding to just go away to another country, leave your former life behind and dedicate your life to serving the weakest members of the society in a way that has little chance of actually resulting in anything great or glorious is so stereotypically delta and so stereotypically judging and rational that ... well... I'm just baffled by how anyone could get the idea that Teresa was INFp. I'm not claiming that she wasn't INFp for a certainty, I'm just really befuddled about why anyone would think so. There's nothing fun about anything she did. She was a powerful personality who felt affinity for the weak. (Not particularly INFpish traits). Her form of religion was social and ethical instead of mythical. She was a powerful actor in her own right. Frankly if I chose another type for her it would be ISFj and certainly not any kind of a 'victim' type. She displayed disinterest toward political circumstances and political attitudes toward her work, she displayed typical 'static' attitudes toward duty and her own ability to act and cause things to happen. She has been widely criticized mainly for ignoring beta-kind of things like ignoring the larger, political aspects of whatever and only caring about her own cause. So I'm having trouble seeing anything INFpish in her. But if anyone can help me see how she is INFp or something else, I'll thank them for it.
    Almost everything you quoted here I would say is more true of IEI than EII. People of the IJ temperament tend to be more stationary, generally leaving their home only when circumstances demand it. About seeking glory: IEIs would be the ones least attracted to that out of all Betas and the thing you write about her way having "little chance of...resulting in anything great" is a post facto judgment. It demonstrates nothing about what or the way she thought, and only really says that you have a hard time seeing things from her outlook. I would say her willingness to abandon her former life demonstrates that she was not valuing and perhaps not valuing either. IEIs do not seek fun. I do not know why you would think that. Her interest in helping the poor and destitute is typical of really any humanitarian type. IEI Nietzsche's last conscious moment was spent defending a horse that was getting beaten, while EII Dostoevsky witnessed a horse being beaten when he was a yound child and the memory stuck with him for his whole life. You claim that she was not drawn to politics. Not every Beta is. The rest of your claims about her I would say are not supported by real life cases, as not every static thinks of duty and there are dynamics that definitely have a very strong concept of duty or cause ( leading types being a big example). I think you are taking a too literal definition of the term "victim." Focusing on solely her cause is completely not like an introverted valuer. And why are larger political implications purely Beta?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Would you like to make an actual case for Mother Teresa being INFp. What you've written so far is just ... well... it's not really the level or spirit of discussion I'd like to see here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensi
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Would you like to make an actual case for Mother Teresa being INFp. What you've written so far is just ... well... it's not really the level or spirit of discussion I'd like to see here.
    Im curious smilingeyes how you got your name?...any relation to type?
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    Christina Ricci is like a carbon copy of this person, Linda Park... YouTube - Enterprise Hoshi Perhaps another INFj from that "cluster"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Would you like to make an actual case for Mother Teresa being INFp. What you've written so far is just ... well... it's not really the level or spirit of discussion I'd like to see here.
    I'm not out to make a case. I simply wished to point out that the way you interpreted Mother Teresa's bio can be thought of in a completely different way. I've yet to see a case from you that goes beyond "she is EII because this is what I decided EIIs are like."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    I'm not out to make a case. I simply wished to point out that the way you interpreted Mother Teresa's bio can be thought of in a completely different way. I've yet to see a case from you that goes beyond "she is EII because this is what I decided EIIs are like."
    Ok, well, now you've stated your opinion. .... The best case by far remains that Mother Teresa was an obvious INFj. .... @Kensi, Yes, the name used to be descriptive about 4 years ago when I joined the forum. I was a very smily easygoing person back then. The name has many connotations though and some of them have become more and not less acute after my most recent personality shift. Can we take this stuff to pm if you have more questions about my person? ... @labcoat I don't know her. Do you have more stuff on her? In what way do you think she represents what Ricci does? I mean, what do you think is/are their main unifying traits, beyond the possible socionics type identicality. And do you think that she and Christina are IJ-Ne? If you do, would you think that they were on the INTj or INFj side of things?... And for what it's worth, after a cursory look at her I do get the same... vibe from her as I do from Ricci. Also, for the record, I personally feel they're maybe more likely on the INTj side, but as the borderline is vague and Ricci has previously been suggested as INFj by others on the forum I didn't hesitate to add her to the pic continuum above. ... Just a quick look at Linda Park and Chrisina Ricci's wikis doesn't bring that much. Linda Park co-founded a theater company. Christina Ricci has a production company. Maybe that's a sign of an ... independent streak in these two? Kind of weak. Anyway, Ricci has always been to me an emblem of the self-destructive, anti-corporeal side of the IJ. Winona Ryder comes to mind as another example of that streak, though... she is warmer and more Fi than either of these two. I should probably add her as a pretty certain INFj actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    If we use a flawed, unusual definition of EII.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm reporting you for harassment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat
    I was a little quick to post that video... Have watched some of Ricci and I have to say now that the similarity isn't too striking. That single pic you posted just seemed similar to Linda Park. I don't know anything about Park except what is shown of her on the TV-series Enterprise. So I only know how she plays one particular role. Main characteristics in that role: sort of disciplined, specialized intellectual (linguistic) talents, very fragile; has irrational fears, functions poorly under pressure, socially capable and in no way reclusive, easy to get along with. If it signifies anything, she plays a role like that very convincingly. I had her typed as INTj before I saw this thread, but that typing is not without issues (mainly absence of a reclusive attitude, generally too 'nice', no underhandedness or contrariness for the sake of it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    I'm reporting you for harassment.
    In my opinion, "harassment" is a bit over the top. There was nothing in ZTCrawcrustle's statement that was a personal attack. Perhaps a cynical statement about your point of view, but not a harassing statement of your character. However, having said that, please do not let it escalate from the point where it is. The moderators are currently out on vacation or trips, so I will keep an eye on this. But as I see it right now, it is not at the level to issue any sort of formal warnings/temp bans. But please see to it that it doesn't escalate any further, or I will take more action.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice
    Quote Originally Posted by Smilingeyes
    On a completely different note, there was a suggestion that Eunice should be included here. I don't really know Eunice, it would be great if she decided to tell something of herself here, that lacking it would be great if someone who actually knew something about her would tell something about her here. ... Actually, it would be great if the other INFjs that are reading this thread would write something about themselves too.
    Hmmmm.....where do I start.......? I graduated from college with a Psychology degree and I am currently in HR. What I enjoy about my job is I feel that I play a part in creating job or career opportunities for people and it gives me the satisfaction to know that it might in turn benefit these people's family who depend on them for a living. When I am not working, I enjoy going out with my friends for a movie, dinner and window shopping, or just chatting with them to learn more about them and what is going on with their lives. Whenever I am alone, I would surf the net to gather any information which interests me, including those which are foreign to me. I have a strange interest in constantly window shopping to see what new products they have in store now and I enjoy comparing prices among similar items from different stores and learning how to maximise and making the best out of my dollar. I actually find fun doing it. I tend to be very concerned about how others perceive me. I used to be conscious about speaking infront of a big crowd of people and tend to feel nervous easily. I am rather concerned about getting my facts right and would be embarrassed if someone were to point out to me that whatever I am saying is rather "fluffy" and leads to nothing. I like to be seen as knowledgeable, even though I have to admit that I am definitely not a working encyclopedia. I can be a rather "passive" person - I like to take a "wait and see" approach. As such, it is rare to see me say something impulsive and regret later. However, I have to admit that my inaction sometimes have caused me lost opportunities. It makes me uneasy at times to jump into something too soon without fully understanding the situation. Ever since I have graduated and started working, I begin to treasure my personal time immensely. I tend not to overcommit myself to a lot of activities, talks, seminars etc. One thing I don't enjoy about work is that I might have to do some tasks which I don't enjoy. As such, I make sure that people don't anyhow take my time away after work unless it is a meaningful activity. My idea of success is to be able to get along with as many people as you can and make them like you, while maintaining your individuality. I feel that many fail because they could not communicate well with people and tend to get into misunderstandings with them. Frankly, I strive hard to practise what I preach because I tend to be too open about my feelings about others, be it positive or negative. As such, I find it hard to treat someone nicely if he/she has rubbed me the wrong way. Due to my interest in social dynamics, I enjoy watching reality series such as "Survivor" and "The Apprentice". In addition, I am interested in the humour found in the movies "Office Space" and the TV series "The Office" and "Mind Your Language" as they are rather subtle and witty, and there are some jokes which I can relate to it as I have encountered similar situations in real life as well. I like musicals and "My Fair Lady" and "The King and I" have won me over. As for music, I currently have a newfound interest in the music of Fujiya & Miyagi: [video=youtube;Q07S3vNHmVw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMBndXAaPrw"]YouTube - Fujiya & Miyagi Collarbone[/url]YouTube - Fujiya & Miyagi - Ankle Injuries Other favorite songs from other artises include: YouTube - Billy Joel "Just the way you are" Live 1977YouTube - Portishead - Roads[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q07S3vNHmVw[/video][ As for sprituality, I am a free thinker because I believe that every religion makes sense and I could not find a reason in adhering to only one belief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter
    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    I've yet to see a case from you that goes beyond "she is EII because this is what I decided EIIs are like."
    Quote Originally Posted by ZTCrawcrustle
    If we use a flawed, unusual definition of EII.
    It can easily be said that you think "she is not EII because this is what I decided EII's are like." There is not much in Smilingeyes' depiction of Mother Teresa that I find would not indicate, at the very least, her strength in Fi. Maybe it is just me, but you seem to have a pretty low opinion on the Delta quadra and the types that constitute it in general. You make it seem that EII are incapable of doing anything altruistic if it means sacrificing our immediate surroundings, which defeats the point of altrustrism in the first place. Heh.
    .
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    I'd like to suggest the possibility of ISFp for Christina Ricci. I also briefly considered INFx and INTp.


    With Jimmy Kimmel (ESE)



    With an LIE
    Part 1

    Part 2


    With Craig Ferguson (IEE; definitely )


    She gets along famously with the ESE, somewhat haphazardly with the IEE and horribly with the LIE.

    Though Christina Ricci is extremely monotone and detached in every other interview, she was on virtually the same page with Kimmel the whole time. Their speech was more harmonious than awkward. She even got excited at some cute Si-related topic he brought up.

    Her shyness and withdrawn attitude is something pretty typical of SEIs, who tend to "play it safe" due to the potential for embarrassment that their Fe picks up on, or if they're not terribly interested in a conversation. Cultivating a non-committal social presence is a trait that's been correlated to -Fe within that system.

    The LIE seemed to hit her Te POLR in another interview by asking her a factual question then changing the answer on her. She tried to complain about it 5 minutes into the interview I quoted.

    She doesn't try to analyze her social interaction through any kind of value or belief system that I can discern. There is no focus on modifying her interaction with interviewers in any way that can be called static, systematic or top-down. Her behavior is fairly reactive and irrational more than rational.

    Cultivating a non-committal social presence is a trait that's been correlated to -Fe within that system.
    This isn't so apparent in ESEs like Kimmel, who seem to embody the party atmosphere. But ESEs (like Kimmel) focus on expressing themselves while simultaneously retaining the ability to drastically "change the topic" of conversation, as it were.
    Last edited by scrith; 03-21-2009 at 01:40 AM.

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    Come to think of it, I'm gonna go ahead and also suggest INTj.

    Her shyness and withdrawn attitude is something pretty typical of SEIs, who tend to "play it safe" due to the potential for embarrassment that their Fe picks up on, or if they're not terribly interested in a conversation. Cultivating a non-committal social presence is a trait that's been correlated to -Fe within that system.

    The LIE seemed to hit her Te POLR in another interview by asking her a factual question then changing the answer on her. She tried to complain about it 5 minutes into the interview I quoted.

    She doesn't try to analyze her social interaction through any kind of value or belief system that I can discern. There is no focus on modifying her interaction with interviewers in any way that can be called static, systematic or top-down. Her behavior is fairly reactive and irrational more than rational.
    ^All of this is applicable to an INTj typing imo (especially reactivity in the sphere of relationships), although -Fe would be replaced by weak ethics and Te POLR with Se POLR.

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    I'm not entirely sure how useful this will be, but here it goes:

    I get along with most people and do not know many individuals who do not like me. I am fairly reserved, in general, both with people I know well and those I have just met. I often will not contribute to a conversation unless I feel I have something "worthy" of being said, regardless of the topic. I am completely comfortable just sitting in silence with people, though others don't find this as comfortable. I have problems letting people get close to me as I do not trust the intentions of others; this includes family members, "friends" (I'm using the term loosely, as I do not consider many to actually deserve the label) dating prospects, as well as men I have been in relationships with. I have sworn off dating indefinitely for my own emotional and physical well being. If someone expresses a need for help I cannot turn them away, no matter how inconvenienced I might be in aiding them. I feel I have a sort of parental obligation to seven my siblings, particularly three that live with my mother, and would do anything for them.

    School has never been very difficult for me as I enjoy reading and learning immensely. If I could spend the rest of my life as a student, I probably would. I am double majoring in international relations and French literature. I am fascinated by different languages and currently have a strong desire to learn Arabic. Since I was a child, reading has consumed a large portion of my time and I probably spend more money on books than anything else, including food. Yesterday at the bookstore I picked up Spirituality and Health Magazine, Foreign Policy, Foreign Affairs, Wind Sand and Stars by Antoine de Saint-Exupery, Exile and the Kingdom by Albert Camus, and a book entitled The Anchor Anthology of French Poetry; I plan on reading most of this over the next week while on spring break. I appreciate art and music, but am neither artistic nor musical. I have very strong opinions on a lot of political issues, but often will not defend my position if I feel my words will not be fully considered by the other person. I also do not share most of my accumulated knowledge, in general, for fear that I may have remembered something wrong. Despite my silence, I am regarded as intelligent among my peers and have often found them to be intimated by me for this reason.

    I enjoy being active. I rock climb and teach yoga several times a week. I also run, hike, and practice jiu jitsu but not with the same frequency. I would say I am in fairly good physical shape and am fairly health conscious. I have been a vegetarian for most of my life and mostly eat "healthy" foods. I am a rather sickly individual, usually suffering from some sort of affliction. I do not sleep nearly enough and I often am so caught up in life or what I am doing that I forget to eat.

    I have somewhat of an avoidant personality, often choosing to ignore issues and people rather than dealing with them. I take on way more than I can handle and am almost always exhausted as a result. I have no religious affiliation, but consider myself somewhat spiritual. I consider myself to be a moral person and obligated to do what is right. I feel my purpose in life is to improve the lives of others and try to make the world a slightly better place, though I have no idea how I am going to do this. I would rather live modestly and help others than have lots of expensive things and feel like my life has no meaning. I am not great at managing my finances. I believe I am viewed as somewhat of a "hippie" by others. I do not like being the center of attention and do not receive compliments well, often feeling them to be insincere. I have pretty low self confidence and esteem.

    I think I'll stop. I feel like I'm rambling.
    EII

    I'll tell you what
    there is plenty wrong with me
    but I fixed up a few old buildings
    and I've planted a few trees.

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    I loved people of all varieties, the minute I opened my eyes to the world.
    When we went to Moscow, when I was 8, I saw an African American person for the first time in my life. When he bent over to say hi to me in Russian, I felt the heart and soul of the person and couldn't see that everyone else saw. Color. I thought what do you mean by color? I couldn't see it. The person, I was told was pitch black. I didn't see that. I saw a lovely person, who was warm, kind and smart. I kept telling my father. "Dad, I really like that person. Can you talk to him and get him to talk to me."

    Can you imagine an 8 year old wanting to talk to a complete stranger? That's what the three EII friends of mine are like. We'll talk to anyone who needs ears.

    We are very zen like, we try to remain as peaceful and quiet as we can. All three of us are very extraverted around people; we love to dance, we have high confidence and oppenness.

    When we go to visit a friend who wants to cook for us, we always make sure that that friend has enough for themselves first; we will never accept generocity from a person who will be financially hurt by providing for us.

    Our empathy extends to helping people; I have volunteered for many organization, and so have my two friends, ever since we were young. Anything where we can help uplift the moods of individuals around us. This uplifting is not getting them to laugh and have fun. It is more of helping them reach a happier, hopeful, clamer level then frustration, sadness, dispair, and hopelessness.

    When we get angry we cry and walk away; we don't do tantrums. All three of us need an optimistic and a positive environment; we don't want anything with violence and we don't have a morbid fascination with people getting hurt or animals or any living thing for that matter.

    When I am frustrated I blurb out objective things about reality that are grossly exagerated, things like "ALL people are this or that", which I don't mean to do, but ESTj are very good about saying what things are real and not.

    Also, we repeat something until someone tells us to stop. Things like, we will get into a broken record about something as simple as asking for the time. I was in one mood a few years ago where I kept asking my sister "What time is it?" Until she got tired of it and asked me to STOP. Then I realized that that's another one of my weird qualities that's also true of my two EII friends. They will get into the habit of repeating something over and over again until we are told to stop.

    Depression seemes to be the F in the INFj...Is that funny?
    All three of us have it and all of us deal with it the same way. Mine started very early, when I was only 12, but I never spoke about it to anyone and it remained a big secret until I was 27, when for the first time, I felt I needed help.

    Sexually, I didn't know boys existed until I was 19. I loved running and other sports when I was young.

    My parents would say that I was very spacy as a child, but loved to read. I read law books when I was 13 for entertainment. I was a perfectionist, overachiever. I got my nose into Journalism and did as many activities as I could. Many of my teachers kept saying I should pursue what they were teaching me. With so many options, who could choose?

    Te in me was not having a method to do whatever I did; I just went with it with no lookout for efficiency. I think other people covered or offered suggestions for that. My dual cousin came into the picture for me, when I was 9. She noticed my ability to write and encouraged me to get into Journalism and I did very well in it. Even now, I need to, I must, with all level of energy know about everything. Absolutely everything. With obsession for high volume of reading. I guess that's not too uncommon?

    With Fi, now that I look back for memories, I remember always keeping my emotions to myself. Locked in secret recesses of my heart, no one could ever tell, prior to talking about it openly that except for excitement, I had any emotions. I was always very even on the outside but melencholic at night. I noticed this special ability to be able to approach a person who was totally mad, sad, whatever emotions they had, to talk to them in a specially made, key fitting way to get them to calm down. I was the only person who could speak, or stand up to people who were especially firey or furious. I knew what to say and how to say it to make them Stop. I have many philosophies on what how to behave with individuals, how to live life, how to care for thing/people. I especially love to connect to people.

    I used to give advice all the time to anyone; even as a kid, I advised my parents to do the right things. Not right by laws but right by individuals, to be kind in their approach, fair, respectful.

    I could never refuse when people ask me to do something. I have never been known to say no to a request for anything. I will always do it. I don't know why.

    I started sub/teaching, esl and special education, math, whatever I could get my hands on from when I was 14 years old. I used to sit with the teacher, in front of a classroom full of students and feel which ones were having conflict with who and I could tell what fight or arguement was boiling underneath who's skin and often I would tell teachers, because I didn't like violence, I wanted them to know so that they could be there to break it up. I know, I was no fun, but that was the best thing to do.

    I started making codes of right or wrong, good or bad when I was very young and these codes are deeply imprinted. I have never stolen anything and I have never attempted to. One time, I checked out a book from a library that closed down and there was a drop off box to leave books. I couldn't hand it in on time and the box was removed from the location. I felt forever guilty for being so irresponsible. When the library reopened five years later at another location. I took the book back and handed it to the clerk telling him how very sorry I was for being so bad about it. He was not mad at me...thank goodness.

    I was very stubborn and I still am. I refused to go to a school my parents suggested that was occupied by one nationality of students. I cried and pleaded to go to a mixed race school. I got what I wanted and enjoyed every minute of it.

    I was 14 when I begged my dad to take me to as many intellectual/author meetings as he could. He had great hook ups to the intellectual community and I was a sponge. I could ingage in a converstion with anyone at any age and especially loved talking to older people, because they were very well spoken and could talk to you for hours on end. I debated like a fierce animal. My father enjoyed it also and did not discourage me from participating in them all the time.

    I can not take sides with individuals, so I am not clanish or clickish. I prefer to be on friendly terms with everyone. I am very private person by nature, I don't talk about my problems, financially or otherwise, unless someone I feel needs advice. I don't turn people away by how I feel about them. I am openly receptive to all people whether I feel the person is honest/good/bad or whatever. Some of my friends only invite people based on activities they enjoy doing with a few selected individuals. I like to include everyone, so I call myself inclusionary not exclusionary based on whatever qualities or traits people may have. I feel that people can find their match or mate within a collective involvement and everyone will have their own way of fun that I don't and shouldn't have to choose who to include and not based on personality, hobbies, preferences. When I go hiking, I will call as many people up as I can.

    I stand up for causes I feel are worth getting attention for. I am very persistent this way.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-18-2010 at 01:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Can you imagine an 8 year old wanting to talk to a complete stranger?
    This is pretty common, unless their parents manage to teach them otherwise. (i.e. the common lesson discussed [but not supported] in this article:

    The Danger of 'Don't Talk to Strangers' | Connect for Kids / Child Advocacy 360 / Youth Policy Action Center



    LII-Ne

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    This is pretty common, unless their parents manage to teach them otherwise. (i.e. the common lesson discussed [but not supported] in this article:

    The Danger of 'Don't Talk to Strangers' | Connect for Kids / Child Advocacy 360 / Youth Policy Action Center
    I was actually going to make a similar comment.

    Kids tend to be color-indifferent by nature unless their parents/friends teach them otherwise, whether by example or by outright expression of views.

    As far as I know, in the former soviet union, one of the few good things about the culture (besides respect for women's abilities) was the relative absence of racism. My SEE mother, also from there, raised me to be color-indifferent as well. I dont think it's wholly related to type--there's a huge cultural component involved.

    Maritsa, your post sounds like you are bragging and really proud of how righteous you are. I guess reading it, I can see why you are hanging tooth and nail to your self-typing of EII, because otherwise you wont see yourself as such a virtuous person. However, a lot of what you described is present in any Fi-valuing person.

    Yes, it is quite funny that you say depression is the F in INFj's. My EII sister has never been depressed, nor have any of my multiple EII friends. Type aside, it seems that perhaps you tend to gravitate to friends who are similar to you, including the depression.

    Maritsa, I also find it awfully weird that despite you reading law textbooks at the age of 13 and being a "sponge of knowledge", and studying Journalism, you dont really have much of an education or career other than being a substitute teacher . Furthermore, I would have thought someone who has "done well" in studying Journalism would be able to express their thoughts in written form MUCH clearer than you are able to do, not to mention have excellent spelling. Now wrt the spelling, I can understand if you studied Journalism in Eastern Europe and immigrated to the US following your college studies, but from what I've read about you, sounds like you've been in the US since at least high school. Based on the latter, at the very least, I'm not sure that you're believable when you say you "did well" in Journalism. If you indeed were a child prodigy like you say you were, I find it absolutely ridiculous that you disregarded your parents' advice to obtain a formal education. Yes, that shows you are stubborn as heck, which isn't totally surprising based on your interactions here, but it also shows you are very closed minded and cannot see possibilities well at all (which also doesn't come as a surprise based on your interactions here). Stubbornness, imo, can also be Se, especially to that extent. But if you are EII, you are so heavily Fi-subtype that the Ne is barely being recognized or used--which i guess if you're depressed/bipolar might be the case.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I was actually going to make a similar comment.

    Kids tend to be color-indifferent by nature unless their parents/friends teach them otherwise, whether by example or by outright expression of views.

    As far as I know, in the former soviet union, one of the few good things about the culture (besides respect for women's abilities) was the relative absence of racism. My SEE mother, also from there, raised me to be color-indifferent as well. I dont think it's wholly related to type--there's a huge cultural component involved.

    Maritsa, your post sounds like you are bragging and really proud of how righteous you are. I guess reading it, I can see why you are hanging tooth and nail to your self-typing of EII, because otherwise you wont see yourself as such a virtuous person. However, a lot of what you described is present in any Fi-valuing person.

    Yes, it is quite funny that you say depression is the F in INFj's. My EII sister has never been depressed, nor have any of my multiple EII friends. Type aside, it seems that perhaps you tend to gravitate to friends who are similar to you, including the depression.

    Maritsa, I also find it awfully weird that despite you reading law textbooks at the age of 13 and being a "sponge of knowledge", and studying Journalism, you dont really have much of an education or career other than being a substitute teacher . Furthermore, I would have thought someone who has "done well" in studying Journalism would be able to express their thoughts in written form MUCH clearer than you are able to do, not to mention have excellent spelling. Now wrt the spelling, I can understand if you studied Journalism in Eastern Europe and immigrated to the US following your college studies, but from what I've read about you, sounds like you've been in the US since at least high school. Based on the latter, at the very least, I'm not sure that you're believable when you say you "did well" in Journalism. If you indeed were a child prodigy like you say you were, I find it absolutely ridiculous that you disregarded your parents' advice to obtain a formal education. Yes, that shows you are stubborn as heck, which isn't totally surprising based on your interactions here, but it also shows you are very closed minded and cannot see possibilities well at all (which also doesn't come as a surprise based on your interactions here). Stubbornness, imo, can also be Se, especially to that extent. But if you are EII, you are so heavily Fi-subtype that the Ne is barely being recognized or used--which i guess if you're depressed/bipolar might be the case.
    You have done an excellent job of catching my tail no matter where I go. This isn't a thread to question why I am what I am. I am EII and I offered my life summery.

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