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Thread: Help me help an ENTp!

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    Exclamation Help me help an ENTp!

    Ok people I need help....yes this comes naturally I suppose, but I'm going to go ahead and use my HA agenda anyway on a cruise for more information....

    How do I help an ILE who has come off the rails a little? I've known this person 5 years and to be honest I *REALLY* like him, if you get me. That aside, he just seems so....I'd say unhappy but that doesn't quite fit....he seems almost disturbed lately. Things have gone to crap for him in a lot of ways, and although he's coping I feel like a part of him is almost dying, and he is quite defensive, almost aggressive when I try to help and be supportive.

    I've found just getting him out doing new things and running around seems to help, but I want to help him on a deeper level as well. I want him to come alive again and be happy, it's heart wrenching to see him like this when I've seen him in happier times.

    It's as if he is trying to be a bad, cruel person when he is naturally a good person....almost to punish himself? It's hard figure out what is going on, but I suppose part of it is to throw people off guard and away from soft spots?

    Help me how can I make it better? I mean I know people need to come to certain points in their life as far as happy spaces and understanding new things go on their own, but how can I facilate and encourage his healing and happyness? I really want ot be there for him without becoming a nuisance.

    Ideas? Points of view? Similar situations?

    Much appreciated <3
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    So I take it, my advice failed.

    Sorry D:

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    I don't think you could possibly help him on any deeper level than , considering his type. But he almost certainly has an aspect to his problems, and if you don't think he can handle that on his own, find another ILE to help.

    What are his interests? Can you put him back on track doing something you know he likes?



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    Gul you have been more than helpful, au contraire....

    Brilliand..thank you I'll keep that in mind

    HKKMR....no comment.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Oh thank you


    I know everyone was saying give him Si but saying that is almost too T-based for me to take in. You have given me a snapshot of the emotion I need to create, you are speaking my language!

    As for the IEI thing.....it's definitely possible. I'm still positive I'm some sort of hybrid.

    I think I have some weird ability to switch between Ni and Si leading depending on the influence of my situation, hormones, environment and moods from a Fe influenced persepective......but I'm def. not Fe leading, I'm too internalised and I don't fit in gamma either.

    Perhaps I'm just a freak, heh.

    Anyway I'm losing my place... thank you. Keep 'em coming
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    I've found just getting him out doing new things and running around seems to help, but I want to help him on a deeper level as well. I want him to come alive again and be happy, it's heart wrenching to see him like this when I've seen him in happier times.

    It's as if he is trying to be a bad, cruel person when he is naturally a good person....almost to punish himself? It's hard figure out what is going on, but I suppose part of it is to throw people off guard and away from soft spots?
    ooh yeah I do that. Gah.

    hmmm. Its hard to answer cuz idk what I'd want myself.

    Maybe it'd help if you told us what kind of stuff went downhill for him. You dont have to give specifics obviously, but different things gotta be dealt with in different ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    As for the IEI thing.....it's definitely possible. I'm still positive I'm some sort of hybrid.

    I think I have some weird ability to switch between Ni and Si leading depending on the influence of my situation, hormones, environment and moods from a Fe influenced persepective...
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    You're delusional.
    Perhaps we need an vs. disambiguation thread, like I did with and ...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    You know, when you ask that question, I almost think you are IEI. What you describe is my single one biggest problem with my ILE husband. He doesn't have any (external) trouble (anymore), but DAMN HIM, he just can't look inside. If I try and go there, he gets so defensive. He's almost mean. Probably it's an E7 vs E4 problem rather than an ILE-IEI thing? Anyways, I hear you.

    What Brilliand says is true. Give him Si. It's the only thing that works with my ILE, too. And after I have tried my best giving him Si, I walk around with so much aggression built up inside (from feeling like his mother), I have to go to the gym and box for hours. Hope you give it more naturally....

    So, make him feel comfortable, calm him down, make him smile and laugh, make him feel taken care of, create a happy little bubble for him, and it's the the best you can give him.

    WHEN the external conditions are solved, he'll be happy again, and move on as if nothing bad ever happened. ILEs seem to be blessed with a very bad memory.
    Yes. E4s, gtfo plz and thx.

    But seriously, your friend needs you to be there for him, to give him support and a nice anchor, to keep him doing the things he enjoys and to make him feel loved. The deeper stuff needs to come on his own schedule. If he's anything like me, trying to weasel that out of him, will probably cause him shut himself off even more. As a wise member on this board once told me: Sometimes being a friend means just being the scratching post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    Maybe it'd help if you told us what kind of stuff went downhill for him.
    Perhaps not my place to give the whole story, but his current behavior seems to stem from a realisation that he was not entirely in control of a situation. He's decided that the only recourse is to break off contact with everyone from the social group involved, but is... apparently unintentionally reluctant to cut the cord with Bee.

    There are quite a significant amount of other details, but that's the current crucial one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Errant View Post
    Perhaps not my place to give the whole story, but his current behavior seems to stem from a realisation that he was not entirely in control of a situation. He's decided that the only recourse is to break off contact with everyone from the social group involved, but is... apparently unintentionally reluctant to cut the cord with Bee.

    There are quite a significant amount of other details, but that's the current crucial one.

    fuck. Im doing the same thing now irl.

    Uhg.

    He can't control his "success" so he's making failure into his new success. Its alot easier to control how much you fail.

    Its like, you have two choices, take a test and probably do poorly or just not take it and get a zero.

    By not taking the test you (or anyone else) dont have to find out how good you are at the subject. You fail sure, but its because YOU chose to fail. You wanted to fail. It is a control issue. You make failing into your success.

    With me, its hard to be around people I have some on going conflict with because I end up going over the situation in my head non-stop. Its easier to just drop everything, burn out, and start over.
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    Mmm. I suspected it was something along those lines. Timing was too wierd for it to be anything else. So given that the goal here is to keep him around and interested, since he generally is a reasonably decent guy to hang around with (And I need a gym partner, damn it!) the trick would be to find a way for him to turn this into a win in his mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    It's like that and it's not, as long as there is some sort of certainty in the background that a ENTp can rely on, then they are capable of risking themselves.

    That need also has to be constantly reinforced, this is something the dual offers which is why it's advantageous to have such a relationship.

    So if Bee is keeping up a relationship with the guy after he's cut off everyone else, it's likely there is some information compatibility between them.

    As far as ENTp's are, it's not they've completely cut off everyone within the social circle. They've mostly just cut off initiating within the social circle, those he still likes are welcome to initiate(if those that are not desired are present) and those who are not will simply be rejected. But with social circles, often time the effect is the entire group is cut off.
    Oh yeah totally. Same here.

    We'll risk alotttttt... but at a point we snap and break down.
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    I'd say...buy him a little gift that you thought of him when you saw (or something useful). Use lots of Fe and remind him of why he is the best at the things he's the best at, tell him that you care, boost his ego, let him be an expert in something by asking his advice.

    That's how the ISFps I know go about it and it seems to work.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I'd say...buy him a little gift that you thought of him when you saw (or something useful). Use lots of Fe and remind him of why he is the best at the things he's the best at, tell him that you care, boost his ego, let him be an expert in something by asking his advice.

    That's how the ISFps I know go about it and it seems to work.
    No offense, but I would hate this, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think it depends on the person whether or not I would mind.

    But I don't think the problem is necessarily that he needs to feel good about himself. It sound like more that he doesn't feel the social group is worth his time anymore. Now there might be esteem issues and such that's related to why he's leaving, but the core problem is likely he's not having fun anymore and it's uncomfortable.
    As far as I could gather, it's a shame issue, actually.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    So he did something that made him feel humiliated? It's kinda of hard to solve a problem without knowing the situation.
    I'll let bee do the explaining if she wants to, but for now, here's my no-spoilers take on the situation.

    It can be insanely difficult to face a collection of anchors that basically shoot guiltlazers at you if you come within 200m of them. Thus, weak means the "easy solution" is don't go within 200m.

    Problem solved, who needs old friends anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    You're delusional.
    Hi my name is Bee......have we met?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by Errant View Post
    Perhaps not my place to give the whole story, but his current behavior seems to stem from a realisation that he was not entirely in control of a situation. He's decided that the only recourse is to break off contact with everyone from the social group involved, but is... apparently unintentionally reluctant to cut the cord with Bee.

    There are quite a significant amount of other details, but that's the current crucial one.
    As far as I know he still has every intention to cut me off completely on Feb 1/2. In other news, Feb 2 also happens to be my birthday. Feeling slightly murderous now.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    As far as I know he still has every intention to cut me off completely on Feb 1/2. In other news, Feb 2 also happens to be my birthday. Feeling slightly murderous now.
    Probably not conducive to providing him with his happy bubble...



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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchonAlarion View Post
    fuck. Im doing the same thing now irl.

    Uhg.

    He can't control his "success" so he's making failure into his new success. Its alot easier to control how much you fail.

    Its like, you have two choices, take a test and probably do poorly or just not take it and get a zero.

    By not taking the test you (or anyone else) dont have to find out how good you are at the subject. You fail sure, but its because YOU chose to fail. You wanted to fail. It is a control issue. You make failing into your success.

    With me, its hard to be around people I have some on going conflict with because I end up going over the situation in my head non-stop. Its easier to just drop everything, burn out, and start over.
    It's me or this sounds completely stupid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Keeping him around and interested is not just making him think he won or distracting him from the problem. He's going to avoid the conflict/situation and whomever is involved explicitly with that situation. You guys just got put in quarantine with the infected if you just happen to be close to the source.

    People might think this is strange or unhealthy, but this is how ENTp's conduct their relationships, overkill to be sure, but in my opinion, not uncommon to happen multiple times in their lives.

    They can remove themselves from the situations in 2 fashions.

    1. Stop initiating.
    2. Rejection

    If you're at 2, it could means that he just wants a time out from it. Now this doesn't mean in a few weeks or months he won't reconnect if someone else initiates, but for now you have to just accept no as a answer. My recommendation is don't stop initiating, even if it's just like once a month. In 5-6 months they might say yes and go out and you guys will have a blast again, but for the short term, it's over. ENTp's can be forgetting types in some situation, but it takes time for that to happen.

    It seems he's saying accepting some initiation on Bee's part and that could be the road back to him after a while. As for the source of his departure from the social group, good luck on that ever being fixed. Whoever cause this issue, may very likely be black-listed from his personal life, forever.

    Yeah. I am both the source of good and evil on this one. He seems to want to make this extremely final. I personally know this is wrong and unhealthy, so I won't give up, not ever. But it's a huge fucking mess. Errant I am much further down the rabbit hole on this now than ever before and it's best that I don't go into detail with you for all that are involved. I'm sorry if that hurts you, this is not about trust, if you're thinking that. You are and will continue to be a great friend. The very best thing you can do right now (yes, I agree with the above comments) is keep initiating with him. Don't try to fix the rift between he and I just now, and no matter what happens to me, promise you will not give up on him.

    I can say no more in this capacity.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Yeah. I am both the source of good and evil on this one. He seems to want to make this extremely final. I personally know this is wrong and unhealthy, so I won't give up, not ever. But it's a huge fucking mess. Errant I am much further down the rabbit hole on this now than ever before and it's best that I don't go into detail with you for all that are involved. I'm sorry if that hurts you, this is not about trust, if you're thinking that. You are and will continue to be a great friend. The very best thing you can do right now (yes, I agree with the above comments) is keep initiating with him. Don't try to fix the rift between he and I just now, and no matter what happens to me, promise you will not give up on him.

    I can say no more in this capacity.
    As you wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Well coming from myself, I won't deal with people who guilt trip me and if I am forced to deal with them, I tend to get pissed off. If they can't forgive and forget the problem, especially if it's past and there are no major repercussions, I just rather not have friends like that or at the very least take a extended break from them.
    It's not guilt-tripping as far as I could gather.

    By "anchor", I just mean a source that reminds you of _____.

    Like, I never mention Urusei Yatsura because of how much stuff is passively linked into it subconsciously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I'm not really making the connection... but it's cool...
    Ok. By "guilt tripping" I think you took me to mean there was some sort of active process of the group aggressively beating him into submission with GUILT GUILT GUILT GUILT GUILT.

    I don't believe this is happening, but instead, it's a more passive experience of an aura that drags the GUILT GUILT GUILT GUILT GUILT or unpleasantness to the surface.

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    After further consideration, I think this is a catastrophic lure.

    "Oh, God, what do they think of me?" It really sucks when you think everyone wears the same shoes at you.

    The question is, then, if cannot be appealed to, how do you fix the damage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's me or this sounds completely stupid?
    No, it's just you. You're completely stupid. Moving on.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Yeah. I am both the source of good and evil on this one. He seems to want to make this extremely final. I personally know this is wrong and unhealthy, so I won't give up, not ever. But it's a huge fucking mess. Errant I am much further down the rabbit hole on this now than ever before and it's best that I don't go into detail with you for all that are involved. I'm sorry if that hurts you, this is not about trust, if you're thinking that. You are and will continue to be a great friend. The very best thing you can do right now (yes, I agree with the above comments) is keep initiating with him. Don't try to fix the rift between he and I just now, and no matter what happens to me, promise you will not give up on him.

    I can say no more in this capacity.
    does anyone ever listen to bee

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    does anyone ever listen to bee
    I see no reason to ignore anyone. That is, I see no reason for me to ignore anyone; I understand why my sister ignores some people.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    does anyone ever listen to bee
    We could be related Merky.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Hi bee,

    I agree with ArchonAlarion about the possibility of his deciding to excel at losing. The concept may be unthinkable to some folks, but an ILE in the right circumstances may appear to be doing this.

    I also agree with Mimosa that you sound more IEI than SEI. Thought of that before reading Mimosa's post.

    I think ILE's have been underestimated in this thread, e.g., assuming he's at "fault" in whatever has lead him to cut off relations; assuming he is not aware of his inner life. But as far as what *you* can do to help:

    * Be a good listener and willing to share ideas on other's behavior if he's in the mood to talk about it; be gentle at first, but then get pure and honest; acknowledge the negative aspects of everyone's behavior involved, but emphasize what's positive (in detail).

    * Do not make "talking about it" the focus of all your interactions or he'll get sick of it. This is not what he needs. It will feel like beating a dead horse to him, rather than helping.

    WHAT HE NEEDS MORE OF:

    * Remind him of the absurdity of life and express free-spiritedness THROUGH inspiring playful behavior you can share in.

    * Help him to spend time with people he knows and trusts, whom he has not taken issue with - especially in familiar environments. Does not matter how shallow the contacts. Present opportunities for him to mingle, turn "on," and talk about his interests with others.

    If he doesn't want to be with you, do not manipulate him into prolonging the relationship or you will add to his misery, and increase the chances of him shutting you out on a bad note (sooner or later). Do you want to be resented?

    He will work out his problems in his own way in his own time.

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    Sauron, The Great Enemy ArchonAlarion's Avatar
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    mmmmm, I concur.

    Especially about the absurdity of life part.

    For me at least, life is kinda like reading a book. I sometimes get so sucked into the book that I start "living" in it, experiencing it as real. I keep reading and reading becoming addicted, stuck in the book. Then something jars me and I remember that the book isn't real. Its fake and its inconsequential. I shut the book.

    Most things in society are illusions, memes, and instilled values. Responsibilities, morality, relationships, "success"... Its all a game. Sometimes you think the game is real. However, trying to understand the game clearly makes it disappear. To truly interpret life you have to rise above the game and cut yourself from all its absurdities.

    Then again, its all meaningless without the game, so you open the book to the next chapter.
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  35. #35
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    Amen ILE-bro.

    Life is merely a framework of rules, some of which have yet to be discovered. In this respect, it is no different from a videogame. Games, then, are merely systems of interaction derived from a set of rules.

    Prove me wrong.

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